Hope this isn't a Ford vs Holden, flat vs convex base tamper type of question!

Having seen a substantial weight of green beans on CS some time ago, I thought I'd order them in and have a go at home roasting. Euphoric terms such as 'freshly roasted coffee' and 'delicious aroma' conjured up all sorts of pictures which I imagined would have had me drifting around the room in a cloud of bliss as the valved bags popped, unable to vent the copious amounts of outgas produced by the divine roast. Well I found after my first attempt that my feet were distinctly on the ground, and that the only cloud was one of frustration (or was that thick black smoke from the roast??)

I have since returned to pre-roasted coffee (purists please die quietly at this point). I found neither pan nor heatgun produced particularly delicious results; there seemed to be no gas given off even when the beans were put into a valved bag within 5 minutes of completing the roast, and there was little or no oil visible on the beans (i.e. quite dull).

The heat gun method was probably a bit more even but took forever; the pan method took 20 minutes or so but since only a small part of the bean touches the pan, I tended to get burnt spots all over the beans despite my efforts to keep things moving. The smell in the house was great but the flavour was certainly not discernably better than preroasted (milk drinks mainly, though did try espresso which was worse than preroasted).

So, have either of these methods got any substantial following? If so, what am I doing wrong, particularly, why does there appear to be no outgassing?

Thanks!

G'day Greg....

Have a look at the "Coretto" a modified breadmaker (which has a bowl to retain the heat and a paddle to stir the beans) - and a heatgun.

IMHO this is the best roasting method (except for some commercial products - maybe?) You have a 2000w heatgun level with the top of the bowl and can do from a couple of hundred grams to >600 grams.

Also check out the thread on dataloggers. Although I've been very impressed by this method of roasting - getting good consistent results - I found using the data logger I was backing off the heat too much after the first crack... one of these (at $40) plus a computer gives the roaster the same sort of control you have with a dial gauge when turning.....

Most problems in roasting come from too much heat, too little heat or the correct amount of heat but for the wrong time.

I'm sure you wouldn't rely on your eye when turning but would use micrometers and dial guages etc.....

A data logger temp probe gives the roaster the same sort of control over the end product.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Greg Pullman wrote on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:08pm:


Greg,

You can roast beans without fancy "tools"- many do! That takes lots of practice and mistakes along the way.

- but just like you could roast meat or bake a cake in an oven without a temperature gauge..... and get something which looks OK most of the time.....

I'm not sure I would want to eat the result out of the oven - sometimes you might get lucky- but other times!!!!!

Hi Greg

Off topic, but wanted to pass on my thanks for the fine Tamper you made for me recently.

My limited experience has seen me go from a Popper (broke after only a few roasts), a heat gun/paella pan/wooden spoon, and now the "Corretto" (breadmake/heatgun). I've probably roasted 3-4kg's only to date, but the results I've achieved from the BM have been fantastic - so much more even that other methods. Well worth it, ask around and someone will give you one - I'm sure 20% of households have an unused breadmaker under the stairs!

I have a $15 X1 heatgun which I use exclusively on the low setting and simply adjust the height of the 'nozzle' from the lip of the bread tin to control heat. I have a simple rig with the heatgun on a pole which I clamp in the vice, easily adjusted.

My only other experience that might be of interest is that there is one bean in my small collection (Indonesian Bukit) that I have not had any success with - despite trying with every method. I have no idea where I have gone wrong with that bean (any advice welcome CoffeeSnobs), but if you are trouble with one particular bean - perhaps give some others a go? It is rewarding when it comes together.

Tim

Thanks for that feedback and encouragement guys. Just read through the coretto thread (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1154442377 for anyone else who's looking for it), sounds like a goer! Just hope the rest of you haven't pinched all the Breville Countrys from Cash Converters! I've always wanted my wife to get a breadmaker too... my brother and I bought one for my Mum a few years ago, she never uses it but thus far I've been unsuccessful in encouraging her to part with it for a more worthy cause!

Here's a pic of the GMC heat gun temp setting indicator that I use. It is handy for setting the HG to roughly the same temp each time. I set to 350 deg C and that seems to produce repeatable results and a decent roast time. I can crank the HG up via the temp controller if I need a bit more.

Funny, I googled GMC heatgun and the top two results were my own posts in CS.

That makes sense as I stick the nozzle a fair way into the pan, so much so that my knuckles start to get a bit too warm on occasions I think I need a stand.

An old electric drill press works fine as well..... You can sometimes buy them new for around $25.

Height adjustable also!

And, as Belinda suggested, a fan blowing over the pan/gun keeps the gun cool (longer life!) and blows away the smoke and chaff...

But doesn't stir the beans

Or you could stick a USB fan in the datalogging computer. One less  @%^$  powerpoint
to find

I've been looking for a use for one of those things ...

After a year, I'm still roasting beans in an iron pot, using a simple procedure. I get my cast iron as hot as possible and I do not flip or stir nervously. The whole point is to get the heat into those beans fast. Pot-roasting will never give even results and the attempts to achieve evenness usually lead to a slow, "baked" roast. The stirring needs to be  low, slow and steady. As far as the level of roasting, I usually go pretty dark. at which point there really should be a gloss of oil on the beans. It may seem alarming, but one needs to stir low and slow with fierce heat under a heavy pot.

Some people will never be happy with this method and this is more than understandable. Because I drink just one coffee a day (I'm a pu'erh collector) I don't need much more than a good grinder and my cast-iron pot. On the other hand, I certainly have favourite coffees and my method doesn't stop me distinguishing the characters of those coffees, which I drink straight and black. I use vacpot, aeropress or Faema Family and I'd  feel very uneasy if there were no Mandheling or PNG Sihereni in the house.

Having said all that, pot-roasting is not for eveyone, and even I may one day buy a good roaster through Coffee Snobs.

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm hunting for a cheap 2nd hand breadmaker at present and will track down a decent heat gun. I'm sure the low output one I have is part of the reason for the unsuccessful roasts thus far. With the breadmaker, I presume that's just used for the stirring mechanism rather than supplying any significant heat itself?

Thanks JB! Seems a pity to buy all that bread making circuitry when all that's needed is the stir mechanism. But so be it!

Greg,

Alternatively you could simply stir the roasting coffee by hand with a simple wooden spoon, as I do.  Hard work, but do-able.

Avi

Greg Pullman wrote on Oct 27^th, 2006, 12:25pm:


Yeah, I second, third, fourth, whatever the comments above.
My first roasts in a standard popper weren't that great either, but perseverance paid off, I have had some really excellent coffee in the many months since

Having dreamed up my own variation on  theme using a wiper motor to turn a colander, mounted inside a bowl, and fitted with custom stirring vanes, and heat gun as heat source I was quite pleased with myself until...
It was only about 2 weeks later that the BM idea was first published

Anyway, point is, for what you can get a 2nd hand BM for, you would never get the parts that you need if you bought them separately, and the (insert caution if you're not electrically experienced) addition of a simple over-ride switch will make any BM suitable.
They come with a reasonably beefy motor and belt drive, a heat proof spindle/bearing and paddle arrangement, all designed to work under similar conditions to roasting  

Regards
Bullitt

Well my first serious venture today after a brief drop-in to Cash Converters yielded some success.

Firstly they had 6 breadmakers, ranging from $19 for a Tiffany unit to $59 for a stainless steel Sunbeam. While the stainless would match the espresso machine nicely, I figured the 'Heavy Duty Industrial' Black and Decker unit for $25 was a better buy. Was just about to leave when I saw this orange monstrosity that just asked to be looked at if only for the purposes of identifying what purpose it was designed to serve!

Turned out it was a popcorn maker (and the only one I had so it wasn't difficult to choose which one to get!) with the name 'Popasaurus'. Totally not the decor but figured Popasauras would live out in the shed with me so that wouldn't really matter. Plus, a 1100W unit for $10 is hard to say 'no' to!

Rushed home and launched 1/2 a cup of green Zimbabwe AA into Popasauras and let rip. Things looked good to start with; while it needed a bit of stirring to start with to keep the beans moving, I saw the first bit of chaff at 40 seconds! The first colour change came after about 1 minute, and a light green / tan came at about 2:15. By 4:00 the beans were light enough to bubble on their own under the energy of the hot air without stirring, though I was hoping it would finish quickly as the instructions warned not to leave it on for more than 5 minutes! Unfortuately from here, things progressed very slowly A medium brown came after about 10 minutes, most of the chaff had gone by 17 minutes but still no sign of first crack. By 20 minutes I stuck my temperature probe into the middle of the beans and found it about 187 degrees C (not sure what they need to be but suspect it should be higher). I must say the roast was a lovely even colour, but just progressed too slowly. By 40 minutes I got my 1200W B&D heatgun out to complement things and by 48 minutes I got the first and only crack! They came out at 51 minutes.

HOly CRAP! Plastic paddle?

What kind of bread machine has a. . .

Never mind.

It is really really easy to ditch the paddle they provide as long as you have a decent twizzlerthingy in the pan - you can make one up (or one of us could with the right set of measurements) to fit your corretto.

but then you are the man with cool lathe. . .

Good one Greg!

Lose the plastic paddle (replace with an aluminium look alike - I'm sure you know someone with a lathe )

and up the heat gun to a 2000 watt and you will be roasting like a champion!

Yeah the paddle wasn't in the unit on the shop floor and I only got to see it just prior to sale. I was a bit concerned about the plastic, but figured if it couldn't take the heat I'd just make an equivalent out of metal. It's not teflon or nylon, it's a hard black plastic which now has bubbles on it! I reckon it's acrylic or polycarbonate or something.

The bowl isn't teflon coated but it does have some clear plastic coating but this didn't seem to get affected at all by the heat.

Funny thing about both roasts is, neither of them have seemed to outgas at all, still! They're in valved bags and are pretty much as flat as when I packed them. Not sure what's going on there!

Gday FB,

The bags I've used are left over from batches I've bought from Alan Frew, so I'm just relying on the zip seal which I presumed would be good enough to demonstrate at least a degree of inflation, while perhaps not attaining a balloon-like appearance. I'll give the heat seal a try. Not that it matters particularly but I'd like to know whether or not it's outgassing.

Thanks FB!

About 10 minutes. Long enough for them to cool in the pan, then it's pretty much straight into the bags.

Yep comes out of the valve. I did a brew about 1 hour after roast and it seemed bubblier than normal so I guess there must be some gas there.

Greg "Maybe I'll go back to pre-roasted" Pullman

Oh OK! Certainly felt like giving up after Popasauras' performance. But even that I reckon may be design; the collar which melted is removable, and a lot of heat was escaping out the 'chimney'. I reckon if exit air flow was restricted and more heat retained in the unit, it'd work a lot better.

Also we're quite liking home baked bread so I'll have to fight to make sure the BM is used for the purpose it was bought for! Will be making up a fully sic metal paddle today (I wonder if I can get one made out of aluminium checkerplate and lower the BM by cutting off the rubber feet? Then it'll REALLY cut it on those late Friday night breadmaker cruises! )

JavaB wrote on Oct 31^st, 2006, 10:53am:


Good idea re the chimney for heat retention. Will try. Had intended to to hold the beans down anyway, hadn't though of that side of it.

It already has a sound system! The belt scrapes on the chassis each time the paddle rotates, which is, kinda, a bit like a doof-doof sound, if you use your imagination.

Been relatively happy with the results nonetheless; fairly mild in milk but quite drinkable. The popper beans had to be ground finer than the coretto beans for some reason, but like you say it's what's in the cup that counts. Was just unsure if I was doing something wrong re the outgas or lack thereof,

Interesting looking paddle thar .......

Your next venture might just be custom made Breadmaker paddles  


Belinda

JavaB wrote on Oct 31^st, 2006, 5:59pm:


Then of course there is the obligatory custom made bowl  


Belinda