For those who have posted here before, what are your follow-up thoughts now you've had the tamper for a while? First impressions are great, but lasting improvements are really what we're looking for.

Greg

I got mine in the Mail Today and yes straight into making the first shot.  I was amazing how much a difference it made.

Easy to keep level with the rings as guidance.  Great weight and handle design.  Fits my hand lovely.

I have made three espressos now and all were really good.  Thanks Robin and Greg for the prompt service and excellant wrokmanship.

I'm sure this will certainly increase the odds of perfecting the perfect shot.

Oh by the way I got the Jarrah and Flat Base.

Picked mine up from Greg on Friday.
Took a couple of shots to get used to it. But now I love it.
I got one of the special Jarrah ones and a flat base.

I still love mine! You can't beat the look of timber and stainless.

Hi Joe

If the coffee is falling out when you tip it upside down, it suggests to me that you have under-dosed the basket.  

What I think is happening is that because there isn't enough coffee in the basket, the tamper is able to make it's way deeper into the basket as you tamp.  The sides of the basket aren't dead square and as you go deeper, the tamper can wedge itself against the sides - hence the spinning.

If you've filled correctly, you should be able to see a slight imprint from the screw of Silvia's shower screen.  Hope this is of some help!

joe7238 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2007, 3:57pm:


If the tamper hits the ridge in the basket when you tamp, then you haven't put enough in the basket and will be unable to get the coffee evenly tamped. It should be filled so the tamped level is just slightly above the ridge. I've been using 18gm which brings the level to about the middle depth marker on the pullman tamper. If you fill too high you'll notice extra resistance when you lock the portafilter in position.

Oh, try this - put your tamper in to an empty basket and see what level depth marker the tamper goes in to. On mine it's somewhere near the top marker. You'll need to fill slightly above that level, but not too high that the portafilter offers more resistance than usual to lock it in.

When you've got the level right, then you need to adjust you grinder so that you get 50-60ml from a double basket in 25-30sec. Then you should be pretty close to the optimum setting.


Bill

ok, I think there is something strange going on...

It doesn't seem like the tamper or basket is even at all. When the basket is empty, one side of the tamper has the top line aligned with the top of the basket, but the other side has the middle line of the tamper aligned with the top of the basket...

I'll take photos

joe7238 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2007, 5:31pm:


Joe,

The tamper won't be the problem but the basket is more likely the cause.

Baskets are just pressed out of a sheet of metal..... and then the ridge is pressed into the side..... if it isn't perfectly aligned then it could be at a slight angle to the rim of the basket.

The other possibility is the tamper has been forced into the basket during shipping by Aussie Post..... I received one back (for resizing for a different basket) which had been dropped (or maybe run over by a truck) where the tamper base had been forced to the bottom of the basket..... This was a tapered non ridged basket. I had to hold the stud of the tamper base in a vice and drive the basket off the base with a pine block and a hammer .

This type of damage is unlikely in your case (unless the packing box was really, really damaged).

It is more likely the ridge is not true with the rim. Even if this is the case it won't affect the operation of the tamper.... as you should NEVER be tamping that low.....

With a Pullman you use one tamp - and one tamp only..... no need for tamps with a partially filled basket..... (and if you do you have a FAR greater chance of channelling).  Fill the basket, tap to settle the grinds, refill if necessary, level and tamp. The top of the resultant puck should be well above the level of the ridge so the fact that it is slightly out compared to the rim won't be an issue.

I've just checked a couple of other new baskets.... and the ridge on those is also not perfectly aligned with the rim.

Pressing metal is always less than a perfect process (with size variations in the width of the baskets (within one batch) greater than 0.6mm. That is why we hand match the baskets before the tamper is made...... and these are genuine LM baskets..... you should see the variation in some of the others

JavaB (Pullman Tampers)

this second pic shows the side that has the top line closest to the basket

Joe,

The tamper SHOULD NEVER go that far into the basket.... the lowest line on the tamper 7mm or somewhere between that and the second 9mm is the greatest depth the top of the puck should be from the rim....

These baskets are designed for about 20 grams of coffee..... unlike the Silvia's own baskets (14 grams only)....

Put in 20 grams, then tamp once and all will be well!

ok, I'm still doing something wrong... When using my original plastic tamp that came with the silvia my tamp is smooth.

But since getting the pullman tamper, my tamp keeps looking like roadworks  i.e. it's patchy and holey across the top...Not blaming the pullman, but just want to know where it's going wrong so I can fix it.

just tried the plastic again and it's smooth.

why is the LM basket spinning in the portafilter? I can't get the tamper out easily (with a slight twist at the end). I think this is why I am getting the tamp to look like roadworks.

Hi Joe

Hang in there!

The basket does look like it's distorted to me, particularly in the first pic.  

Java, I think Joe was just placing the tamper in the basket without coffee to demonstrate the distortion.

Joe, I suggest that you get the original basket and GENTLY place the tamper into it, checking that it is a close fit (my tamper fits very closely to all the baskets I have).  If ti does, fill the basket with your normal dose of coffee and try the pullman with your original basket.  If there are no probs, then you can be pretty sure the prob is with the lm basket.

Bill wrote on Aug 24^th, 2007, 7:19pm:


That largely depends on your group gasket configuration. There are a number of different thickness gaskets out there and a number of different hardnesses, and these will have a huge effect on how much you can get in the basket before you start getting gasket resistance. The gaskets that came with my machine and the ones I replaced them with caused a big difference in this regard on my Silvia, so to a degree it depends on the individual machines' configuration.


Joe, when you say the basket is spinning in the portafilter, try putting it in the portafilter with no coffee and see how hard it is to spin by hand compared to your original Silvia baskets. My LM is slightly easier to spin than my Silvia basket but not by much, and both present moderate spinning resistance. It may be that:
1. the spring on your portafilter may be weaker than normal, preventing a good grip in which case both will spin similarly
2. the basket is slightly deeper than normal allowing it to bottom out on the bottom of the portafilter and thus not be gripped properly
3. the ridge is uneven (see below)

If there's any moisture in the beans or on the tamper, polishing normally allows this to be smoothed out and for the tamper to be removed without affecting the surface; but if the tamper's not moving relative to the puck due to the basket spinning instead, you may get a bit of coffee sticking to the tamper base in some instances which will result in a torn surface as I think you're describing with the 'roadworks'. Do you get any coffee stuck on the tamper base when this happens? The tamper surface itself, as you can see, has a high quality smooth finish so there's nothing inherent in the base itself to cause the coffee to stick to it.

As JavaB mentioned, you shouldn't ever be tamping so deep that the tamper bottoms out on the ridge so check your dose, but if the basket isn't being held properly in the first place for whatever reason then you may get the basket spinning even if your dose is right and the puck surface possibly sustaining damage.

As far as the shape of the basket itself, the ridge should be perpendicular to the top and bottom of the basket. I've not come across any before that aren't even in this way, however as the dies at the factory wear out they are replaced, so there can be subtle differences between baskets even of the same manufacturer. So long as these are limited to size, that doesn't overly affect our operations as we match the tamper to the basket before it's sent out so even if the basket's a bit bigger than some others, the base we supply will be a good fit to that basket regardless. However we've never had the need to check ridge alignment as that's never been an issue in the past. It may be there are some some faults with this batch affecting things in this way.

Can you measure the distance from the top of the ridge to the top on the basket around the outside of the basket? If the basket's uneven such that it stops the spring working correctly, then this is a problem for LM to resolve so send it back at our cost and we'll arrange for it to be replaced with a properly sized one. There may be a little delay in the changeover as we check through the rest of our remaining stock and as I liaise with LM about the quality of what they'll be sending us to replace it, if it is indeed the basket.

HTH!

Greg

Hi Joe,

Unfortunately an LM basket won't fit into my La Cimbali.... so I can't try with one - but the genuine La Cimbali baskets are almost exactly the same depth and diameter as the LMs (it's the ridge on the LMs which won't fit into the PF).

When I dose the La Cimbali baskets (which take 20 grams) I dose so the grinds are just slightly mounded above the rim of the basket.... then tap on the bench to settle the grinds in the basket.

I then tamp once - to 13.5 Kg (you can check that on a set of bathroom scales)- and then remove the tamper (I've also tried the quick spin polish - but don't normally do that)..... When the tamper is in the basket with 13.5 Kg applied the lowest ring on my tamper is just above the level of the basket rim.

I'm guessing here, but maybe your grind is a bit too coarse. What sort of grinder are you using? My grinds only pack down about 6mm under 13.5 Kg force and if you require the grinds to be a bit lower for the PF to lock in properly - grinds level with the top of the basket should compress to about the correct level.

Tamping several times - even with just a little pressure sets the puck up in layers.... those layers result in an uneven puck.... and there is greater likelihood of channelling- especially horizontal channelling.

Multiple partial tamps are sometimes used to make a denser puck - to slow down the extraction rate..... whilst this works - it is not the best solution. The answer is to grind finer until, after tamping once at 13.5 Kg, you get the desired 60 ml in 25-30 seconds.

Greg - now I have had my Tamper a few months I guess I should give you some feedback.

It is fantastic!!!

It took me a wee while to get used to the flat base and the weight as I was 'over tamping' at first and getting really hard pucks and choking the machine. It has taken away the need to double tamp.

I have a few friends who are woodworkers and cabinet makers and they loved the quality, and the cost - "you paid how much...???" We all loved the Redgum tortoise shell handle too.

This has become one of my most treasured posessions as I feel like it is a work of art that is also practical.

The lines are mainly to check levelness.  They aren't for measuring depth.

Oh sorry people have asked me earlier - I use a rancilio rocky (doserless) to grind.

As the LM basket is very deep, it's hard to grind so much using the rocky without making a mess! The plastic guard on the rocky is great but I think that it causes the grind to overflow before I have the right amount to tamp. That's why I grind, tap/shake, grind lightly tamp (to disperse it evenly), grind, lightly tamp, grind and properly tamp.

Without the light tamps to disperse the grind, I cannot fit the portafilter under the plastic guard of the rocky, and will not get enough grind into the basket. Does anyone else have this problem?

I guess I could grind into a container and scoop it in, or remove the plastic guard....

Can always hold the PF under the spout.

Update: The problem with the LM baskets is not actually that the top of the ridge is misaligned to the top, but rather that the bottom half of the ridge isn't consistent in shape. One side comes inwards quite sharply, the other side is more rounded, and this allows the tamper to drop down on one side.

This explains a lot. It explains why you couldn't pick any problems in your measurements, which I suspect you did from the outside, because from the ridge up everything is fine. It would also explain the problem with the basket spinning, since this may be allowing the tamper to skew as in the picture and bind on the sides of the basket. As far as results go, I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have if your dose is right, but if it's too low you may find this shape anomaly prevents the grinds from being evenly compressed, which will lead to channeling.

LM have been informed and I'm awaiting their response.

Precisely what I've found re the parallel lines separating. LM have informed me that a technician will be returning my call as far as my options from here. Does the tamper fit in your Silvia basket? If so you can use that in the meantime until this is resolved so at least he can use the tamper!

Yep we'll change it over for you, I'll send you the details via email.

skypig wrote on Aug 31^st, 2007, 7:22pm:

I suggest that you tap down the PF once or even twice while filling.  Personally, I use the edge of a short ruler to scrape down excess rather than the lid, and keep it straight.  I think that approach might make it easier to be consistent.

Well, certainly taping to settle while filling has improved things.  Still a fine line between hitting the ridge (under dosed) and not getting the handle locked on (over dosed) though.

Getting a 60ml double in about 24 seconds, good crema and tasty but sometimes tiny (messy) “squirts” from the naked portafilter. Just not “settled” enough? It’s tamped quite firmly.  

Any suggestions?

skypig wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007, 9:31am:


Hi Skypig,

First up, if your shots taste good, I don't think that you have much of a problem.  The naked portafilter is great for seeing how consistent you are.  The clothed portafilter is better for forcing you to focus on what matters - the taste.

The e61 group is very forgiving.  You can get decent shots out of it by basically just tamping with your hand.  It's ridiculous!  I know that the VBM group looks a bit different from some of the other common ones, but I bet that it would still give you quite a bit of leeway.  Perhaps the spurts are being caused by there being too much coffee in the basket?  I know that I had terrible problems when I experimented with tamping, dosing more and then tamping again.  Perhaps the rapping to settle whilst dosing technique is having a similar effect?  If you dose a little bit less, perhaps you will get more of the forgiveness factor from the group?  I would try dosing and striking off level without collapsing at all ... just for kicks.  It might not work, but it will, at least, give you a feel for what changing that variable can do.

Cheers,

Luca

Hi Andrew,

Yes, the tapping with the handle is to settle loose grounds around the edge if you have a poorly fitting tamper.

With a Pullman that won't be necessary as you won't get the loose grounds around the edge (and also you will damage the handle )....

So neither necessary or desirable!