coffeesnobs.com.au - Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?

derrilex

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Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Jun 29^th, 2010, 9:34pm

Hi all. Firstly - AM - Help.

Descaled for the first time using cafetto. ( not the first time for a descaling) The 6910 gets done every month including steam wand but has been done using the sunbeam liquid descaler - until now. Taking advice to use a better cleaner I used cafetto restore (sachets) as per the instructions (disolve in 1 lt. warm water then follow sunbeams and AM 's instructions). Normally the sunbeam stuff works a treat, ( not that I see any evidence of scale in my clear jug ) on the steam aswell. But tonight, when flushing the steam wand into a glass pyrex jug full of water ( to avoid the steam) I have found something. Is this scale ? If so, why did the cafetto not dissolve it ? If its not scale what is it ? It looks like cafetto ???? but surely not, it was fully dissolved in a jug before been put into the machine. What do I do AM. The machine is running and steaming fine, for now, and the amount of scale ? reduced with each flush. Do I descale again and leave it sit for 3 hours ? overnight ?

I have photos but it wont let me post them. keep getting red writing telling me to re attach the photo for security reasons ?WTF

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #1 - Jun 29^th, 2010, 11:16pm

derrilex wrote on Jun 29^th, 2010, 9:34pm:

cafetto restore

Never used the stuff ?

I use a Vanish Descaler Wink

"Restore Descaler - A safe and highly effective descaler for removing hard water scale from espresso machine boilers, coffee and milk delivery lines."

However it should be OK..

Quote:

But tonight, when flushing the steam wand into a glass pyrex jug full of water ( to avoid the steam) I have found something. Is this scale ? If so, why did the cafetto not dissolve it ? If its not scale what is it ? It looks like cafetto ???? but surely not, it was fully dissolved in a jug before been put into the machine.

A picture and or hands on tells a 1001 words.

Quote:

What do I do AM. The machine is running and steaming fine, for now, and the amount of scale ? reduced with each flush.

Can only assume crap is coming away..

Quote:

Do I descale again and leave it sit for 3 hours ? overnight ?

NO ... NO....

Like drugs and many things - MORE is not always better...

See how it goes first..

As I have never tried the stuff your using I can not comment as to how fast and or good it works... Many of the de-scalers do not DESOLVE the scale... They do a bit, but tend to just break it up / loosen it... Try it in a dirty kettle... The stuff just flakes and you end up with little bits of crap..

I can only assume that the previous products did not do a TOP notch Job or ya got bad water Wink

Give it a few days and then maybe try again and see what level of stuff comes out... The concern is that a big bit of scale could cause a blockage in the steam pump..

Thus the reason I try to use something that dissolves... The Restore Descaler might.. but if ya system is bad... Maybe it needs to sit a bit longer... But do not over do it with 3 or 5 hrs or over night...

I would rather gove it 30 min or an 1hr and have to do it again later that go for an over night run..

However... With out being able to see and have hands on; it is all one of context and guessing.

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Thundergod Sleep is overrated. Offline Order is for idiots; genius can handle chaos. Posts: 9224 Sydney Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #2 - Jun 29^th, 2010, 11:57pm derrilex wrote on Jun 29^th, 2010, 9:34pm: I have photos but it wont let me post them. keep getting red writing telling me to re attach the photo for security reasons ?WTF This looks to me like you are trying to preview the photos before posting. Don't try preview. Just attach and post.
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derrilex Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 91 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #3 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 6:53am Ok cool. I gave it the standard proceedure which takes about an hour all up with several heat/cool cycles and lots of flushing. Photos on way.
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derrilex

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #4 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 7:01am

So AM, am I correct in assuming that you only use the cafetto group head cleaner ? Can you give me the exact name of the descaler that you use and the name of the shop where I can buy it.

The cafetto is going back to DB to be firmly inserted into saleswomans ---------. as she is the one who who said it dissolves everything and it is the only product to use.

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #5 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 9:05am

derrilex wrote on Jun 30^th, 2010, 7:01am:

So AM, am I correct in assuming that you only use the cafetto group head cleaner ? Can you give me the exact name of the descaler that you use and the name of the shop where I can buy it.

The cafetto is going back to DB to be firmly inserted into saleswomans ---------. as she is the one who who said it dissolves everything and it is the only product to use.

I use a number of group cleaning products including Cafetto.. Have the highest regard for the commercial products.

I use a Vanish Descaler as stated in my post.. Cafetto Vanish Descaler from coffee parts.

Also BomBora has some highly recommended gear... http://www.bomborasupplies.com.au/home.php see bottom of page and look at the more details links etc.

As to the bols... Do not shoot the messenger.... Most front line staff do their best... But are told what to say / sell and or have only been told the basics. IN addition there is the issue of HOME use Vs Technician use.. Some of the cleaning products are rather nasty..

In some states you might find that selling to public might be an issue. Acids and Poisons are often required to be keep in a secure place... So just because some one does not know all the details and or may not offer to sell you a product... Does not mean they deserve Verbal or physical abuse..

A: It could also be that while some scale has dissolved other bits have broken down...

B: It does tend to look like a cleaning product that has not dissolved

C: Take is slowly and monitor for a few more WET and LOW temp steams... Get some of the bits out and see how they feel/break up/ dissolve in warm water etc..

Lots of reasons why you might be seeing this.. But I can not put a finger on it across the net...

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derrilex

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #6 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 9:23am

Made a couple this morning and a fair bit more of " the substance" came out of the steam wand ( tested before brewing). All the powder was fully dissolved in a glass jug so unless it somehow re formed into a powder inside the steam thermoblock ? which I guess is possible. I'll give it a full on wet flushing and see what happens.

Re the sales staff - this was bought from a very prominant shop. I'm sure you are aware of whom I'm referring. They run a coffee school using domestic machines not 2 feet from the cleaning products display. All staff there should know exactly what to recommend and if they dont they should not punch above their weight but ask someone else for help IMHO. No shortage of staff walking around, someone there should/would know what they are selling and promoting.

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derrilex Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 91 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #7 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 9:42am Oh man there is heaps coming out now. It really does look like the raw product ?
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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #8 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 9:50am

derrilex wrote on Jun 30^th, 2010, 9:42am:

Oh man there is heaps coming out now. It really does look like the raw product ?

FLUSH and FLUSH some more... Do not bin the stuff...

Collect and put in a little glass jar...

Could be worth reviewing and maybe even contacting some one at Cafetto and sending off to Cafetto for further review / investigation..

The stuff dissolves in water... But if it was highly concentrated and then left to cool in the steam thermoblock... There is always the chance it could re crystallise ?

Hence the advice as to WETNESS SETTING and MIN TEMP... With lots of flushing...

As I have stated before...When FLUSHING - Run... Let it cool and then run again... do this lots of times... I also use a wet cool cloth on the steam wand... I also flush and empty and flush the group as well.... I would also do a Chem back flush procedure without the chemical... Thus a full hot water backflush..

NOTE: I would not recommend de scaling the steam wand as a regular procedure...

That would be a Fix the symptom rather than Fix the cause...

It was only ever suggested as a Last Ditched attempt..

PS. I do de-scale all my systems; but do so, using a different method because I can and the fact that the machine is usually in bits...

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CoffeeHouse the bitter antisocial maverick tec who specialises in diagnostic service and does whatever it takes; to solve puzzling cases that come his way - Dr Rodney Syme.
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derrilex

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #9 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 10:10am

I reckon I have got about 1/8 of teaspoon out of the steam wand so far. Yikes. Considering how little solution goes through the wand this scares me a bit. Currently doing another descale proceedure with sunbeam liquid and will flush for the rest of the day on and off. See what happens eh.

The steam pump is obviously before the steam thermo right ? so I assumes it pumps cold water to the thermo ? so it hopefully has only had the dissolved solution go through it ?? Flush flush flush flush.

Note - got a few chunks of the same stuff come through the group head after removing the shower screens. That cant be good.

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derrilex

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #10 - Jun 30^th, 2010, 3:12pm

descale completed. Took 3 hours to flush 750 ml through the steam wand in short bursts, with the scale ? reducing each time. I still get some little bits coming through but I'll drink those, I guess. Colour has changed from the white powdery look to brown and gritty. Did the hot water back flush - rubber blind no chemical sunbeam cycle. See how it goes.

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derrilex Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 91 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #11 - Jul 3^rd, 2010, 9:10pm 6910 still going strong. Very lucky me thinks.
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AngerManagement Sleep is overrated. Offline Coffee Seagull: 2 + 2 = 5 Posts: 5666 Brisbane Nth - Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #12 - Jul 3^rd, 2010, 9:39pm Sounds like there was a lot of crap in the system ???
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tony8028 Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 92 Redfern NSW	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #13 - Jul 4^th, 2010, 2:45pm derrilex wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2010, 9:10pm: 6910 still going strong. Very lucky me thinks. Me thinks a miracle! Mine lasted a whole 5 months. PM me some lotto numbers will you ?
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Jon. OlSmokey Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 1177 South Australia. Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #14 - Jul 4^th, 2010, 5:28pm AngerManagement wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2010, 9:39pm: Sounds like there was a lot of crap in the system ??? If that's the case a box of Laxettes should take care of the situation.
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derrilex Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 91 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #15 - Jul 4^th, 2010, 7:09pm Bulkus crapus in the 6910. But its still going. I'm been a bit gentle on her ( it ) though. Ive made my grind coarser and tamp harder to get a result. She ( it ) likes it like that. Shot is now about 12.45 on the gauge with no pulsing - hooray.
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RedGiant

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #16 - Jul 26^th, 2010, 12:22pm

Hey to all, sorry to revive a 3 week old thread but thought it better than starting a new one considering it’s not totally off this topic.
I have recently (4 weeks ago) got my hands on a 6910, and I am now looking for some cleaning products (after finding this site!).

I see AngerManagement uses Caffeto, thus:
Would ‘Caffetto Espresso Clean’ and ‘Cafetto Restore Espresso Machine Descaler’ be appropriate for my machine? Or am I better off trying to get the sunbeam products?

Also any advice on how often to clean for 2-4 cups per day?

Thanks in advance

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theredcapsicum Roastsabit Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 53 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ? Reply #17 - Jul 27^th, 2010, 4:05pm I have used Caffetto Espresso Clean in my machine from new with no issues. i descale every 2 months and back flush weekly with it ( probably a bit of over kill ) and it works for me. hope this helps
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derrilex

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Re: Has cafetto ruined my 6910 ?
Reply #18 - Jul 27^th, 2010, 7:21pm

Use the espresso clean for the group head flush instead of the sunbeam tablets

Do Not - repeat - Do Not use restore descaler through the steam wand. In fact, I would not use it at all, given what it did to my 6910. ( see photos)

Take AM's advice and use Cafetto Vanish descaler through the machine and - steam wand ( if yours has steam issues). Mail order only I believe.

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