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JohnA

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extraction in 25 seconds
Jul 30^th, 2010, 1:49pm

I hope this is posted in the correct section

In all the years i have had my machine i never bothered too much with the whole 30ml in 25 seconds.

I always thought i had a good tasting coffee.

However, yesterday i decided to order a timer and a 30ml measuring glass.

It arrived today so i decided to try my current technique to see what the results were.

I am very embarrassed to say the least

a 30mm pour took a whole 12 seconds.....ooops.

Now i have read a few ways of filling and tamping the basket on the ecm giotto.
Some say fill up wipe with finger and tamp.
others say 7-9 grams of coffee.

I tried the first way and the handle was very hard to insert into the machine.

I then tried 7 grams, using the kitchen digital scales and was too little, 10 grams seemed to work the best for the single basket.

I then figured it takes around 14 seconds for the mini to grind out 10 grams.

Adjusted the grind to slightly finer and we got closer to the 25 second extraction.

Finally after 3 shots, i am bang on at 25-27 seconds for a 30ml poor.
This is including the crema.

What can i say, i made the wife the first one and she said, this is sooo much smoother, did you buy different beans?

I made one for myself and sure enough she was correct.

It only took me 5 years to do this

there is no looking back now.

So i highly recommend to anyone out there, take your time and get it spot on. It is well worth it.

I am still going to fine tune a little, but am very happy with the results.

I am not sure why the filling the basket technique did not work for me though.

I may purchase a set of those dosing tools and give it another shot

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rival81 RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 201 Brisbane	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #1 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 3:04pm Recommend you try a triple basket, or at least a double. Much better for espresso than small single baskets.
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JohnA RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 133	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #2 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 3:40pm thanks for the tip rival. Put the double basket on now. Doesn't matter if its a single spout does it? will give it a shot in half an hour
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maheel

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #3 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:21pm

JohnA wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 3:40pm:

t. Doesn't matter if its a single spout does it?

the grinds are not going to know

and it's good to hear you think it's an improvement on the coffee

i don't have any spout at all on mine

lots use the double basket to make a single shot, many find it easier to get a better shot out of the double basket and more beans.

I use a double all the time and agree with the idea

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Jon. OlSmokey Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 1169 South Australia. Gender:	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #4 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:40pm rival81 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 3:04pm: at least a double. Much better for espresso than small single baskets. Very true, never used a triple so cant comment.
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JohnA RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 133	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #5 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:44pm Thanks Maheel damn, i am going to have to go allot finer to get a 25 second 30ml extraction using the double basket. did the fill, tap, fill, level with finger, then tamp. 30ml in 13 seconds. Will keep adjusting the grind to see how fine i must go.
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Jon.

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #6 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:44pm

maheel wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:21pm:

the grinds are not going to know

My theory is two streams of coffee flowing through the air into the cup are going to cool faster than one, may only be minimal but must have some affect.

maheel wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:21pm:

many find it easier to get a better shot out of the double basket and more beans.

I use a double all the time and agree with the idea

So do I.

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Cheers,

Old JW.

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Mal

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 6:16pm

JohnA wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:44pm:

Thanks Maheel

damn, i am going to have to go allot finer to get a 25 second 30ml extraction using the double basket.

For a standard Double Shot, this shouldn't be necessary...

JohnA wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:44pm:

did the fill, tap, fill, level with finger, then tamp.

30ml in 13 seconds.

You're actually supposed to be pouring a 60ml shot for a Double - Unless you are trying for Ristretto shots. In rough terms, your existing grind setting that pulls 30ml in 13 seconds equates to a Double of 60ml in 26-28 seconds. Spot on, in other words....

JohnA wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010, 4:44pm:

Will keep adjusting the grind to see how fine i must go.

Leave the setting as is and see how long it takes to pour a volume of 60ml.... Wink

Mal.

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JohnA RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 133	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #8 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 6:36pm Mal, thank you so much. i was about to say, there is no way i can do a 30ml extraction in 25 seconds with the double will put the grind back to were i had it, (good thing i marked the spot) and do it again for the first cup in the morning. So a 60ml pour for one cup of coffee GOT IT
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Mal CS Moderator Online Coffee! Coffee! My Kingdom for a doppio piccolo... Posts: 10032 Warwick QLD Gender:	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #9 - Jul 30^th, 2010, 10:42pm No worries John... Let us know how it goes..... Mal.
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JohnA RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 133	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #10 - Jul 31^st, 2010, 8:35am I had to adjust the grind slightly finer to get the 60ml pour in 25 seconds. I repeated it a couple of times to make sure i got the same result. IMHO, i feel its just a touch on the bitter side. I am going to put this down to my dosing technique and i may grind a little coarser and try again later today
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JohnA RegularRoaster Offline CoffeeSnob Posts: 133	Re: extraction in 25 seconds Reply #11 - Jul 31^st, 2010, 9:34am re adjusted grind again back to were i had it for a single basket. Adjusted my dosing technique and got the 60ml in 26 seconds. Still prefer the taste out of the single basket though
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depecid

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #12 - Jul 31^st, 2010, 12:08pm

I'm the same john.

I either pour a single, which is harder to get spot on (seems very sensitive to dose and i'm still searching for a technique that gives me good identical results) or use the double basket and just toss one shot down the sink Embarrassed

I roast my own so cost wise i'm not too fussed with wasting a shot now and then. If you do a ristretto with the double basket just use a bigger cup (if you have one) to combat the stronger flavour if it's too much (what i do anyway).

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GregWormald

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #13 - Jul 31^st, 2010, 12:27pm

The reality is that whatever works with your equipment, for you, is what works for you. The recommendations are generalities that have been shown to be a good starting point.

My recommendation Grin

is that you try the 5 cent test (a search here will find it) for dosing, grind to get 50-60 ml in 25-30 seconds (double basket), and then stop the extraction short (say, 30 or 40 ml) and try a ristretto.

The best shots I ever have are made by Mark Barun at his shop! (Hi Mark.) He uses a triple basket and the result rarely exceeds 30 ml. --rather than the 90 ml. that a triple would seem to indicate. These I drink straight.

At home I usually make small lattes--about 60-70 ml. total from a 25 or 30 ml. double dose extraction.

Enjoy the coffee.

Greg

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Re: extraction in 25 seconds
Reply #14 - Jul 31^st, 2010, 5:51pm

GregWormald wrote on Jul 31^st, 2010, 12:27pm:

The reality is that whatever works with your equipment, for you, is what works for you. The recommendations are generalities that have been shown to be a good starting point.

My recommendation Grin

is that you try the 5 cent test (a search here will find it) for dosing, grind to get 50-60 ml in 25-30 seconds (double basket), and then stop the extraction short (say, 30 or 40 ml) and try a ristretto.

The best shots I ever have are made by Mark Barun at his shop! (Hi Mark.) He uses a triple basket and the result rarely exceeds 30 ml. --rather than the 90 ml. that a triple would seem to indicate. These I drink straight.

At home I usually make small lattes--about 60-70 ml. total from a 25 or 30 ml. double dose extraction.

Enjoy the coffee.

Greg

I have used triple baskets; but treat them as a double.....

Thus a 50-60ml shot in 25-30sec on a triple basket is what I tens to look for...

Other wise I have to go for a 30 - 40 sec shot in a double to get what I like in my coffee cup.

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