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Thread: Mocha Java variations?

  1. #1
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    Mocha Java variations?

    My attempts to get the Ethiopian Harrar and Sumatran Mandehling as well as the decaf mocha java keeps getting thwarted by stocks running out before I can place the order...

    What other beans can you use to get close to the Mocha java blend? Kenya AA/ Timor Leste?

  2. #2
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    Re: Mocha Java variations?

    Other blends worth a try might be

    African - Ethiopian Limu or Malawi Pamwamba or Ugandan Bugisu?

    Indonesian - Sulawesi Toraja, maybe Columbian or MTC Boomerang.

    I have had good success with Columbian/Limu blend, which I and others liked a lot,
    however cant compare it directly with a proper Mocha/Java as Ive never had any.

    Regards
    Bullitt

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    Re: Mocha Java variations?

    You could probably try Ethiopian Ghimbi/lighter roasted Sulawesi.

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    I`m drinking a blend of Ethiopian sidamo haile selassie / Sulawesi blue 60 / 40

    Roasted together to late CS9 in the corretto really nice blend.

  5. #5
    Roz
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    Currently resting a test batch of 50/50 of Yemen Mocha Haimi and Indo sulawesi toraja... no idea how this will taste in a few days but hopefully good.

  6. #6
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roz View Post
    Currently resting a test batch of 50/50 of Yemen Mocha Haimi and Indo sulawesi toraja... no idea how this will taste in a few days but hopefully good.
    I think you will be pleasantly surprised Roz--enjoy!!

  7. #7
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Kick starting again an oldie but a goody…
    With the Mocha Java one of my all-time favourite blends, I've just cracked into a bag of the latest current beanbay variation with a 60/40 Java Banyuwangi with Ethiopia Oromia Coop Limu. Pre-roast blend, ramping climb to first crack in 13-14mins, dropped at 18mins just into second crack. Taken to 226 deg.
    One of the best doppios I've had in a long time! Thick, rich, sweet & syrupy, strong chocolate overtone with an undertone of something else - maybe leather or timber shavings?
    This should also rock through milk - I'm expecting big choc :-)
    Might try this again soon with some Mexican added to the blend to add some citrus acidity through the syrup. But well worth a try if you have these beans on hand.

    Happy roasting!
    Matt

    Update: Just sampled in Piccolo and Latte, through Vitasoy Original - big, big, BIG chocolate! Old gold… mmmmmm
    Last edited by DesigningByCoffee; 25th March 2013 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Updated cupping :-)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    With the Mocha Java one of my all-time favourite blends, I've just cracked into a bag of the latest current beanbay variation with a 60/40 Java Banyuwangi with Ethiopia Oromia Coop Limu. Pre-roast blend, ramping climb to first crack in 13-14mins, dropped at 18mins just into second crack. Taken to 226 deg.
    Hey Matt,

    I read another post that said mocha/java was 60% African 40% Indo. Is that what you do?
    How long did you rest the beans before using?

    Just roasted the Ethopian with some Sumatra Lake Toba on the weekend so waiting patiently for a few days before trying

    Mick

  9. #9
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Mick
    You can just play around with the mix - I've had lovely coffee from both. The 60/40 tends to be a bit more cocoa-like - the 40/60 a bit more smooth & caramely IMHO - just depends what you like and what you've got in stock!
    Normally rested 7 days, gets really good 10-14. Taken to just on second crack at around 17mins.

    You'll love it when you get it right!
    Matt
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  10. #10
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi all
    I've been tweaking my Mocha Java based blends by adding some central/indian at the tail end, rather than placing the M/J over some base beans which seems to be the more standard approach. I just prefer the extra potency of the Ethiopians. And stumbled across a real winner!

    Opened this morning after 10 days rest - amazingly rich doppio & awesome through soy as a FW.
    Breakdown as follows…
    • 150g Eth Ghimbi
    • 100g Sulawesi Blue
    • 50g El Sal Aida
    • 50g MMG
    Around 18min ramping roast - dropped at 225deg just on second crack.

    I've been playing with a 125/100/75/50 blend of these origins, which has been beautifully smooth & sweet, yet more subtle - but this one really jumped out and poked me in the eye!
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Hi Mick
    You can just play around with the mix - I've had lovely coffee from both. The 60/40 tends to be a bit more cocoa-like - the 40/60 a bit more smooth & caramely IMHO - just depends what you like and what you've got in stock!
    Normally rested 7 days, gets really good 10-14. Taken to just on second crack at around 17mins.

    You'll love it when you get it right!
    Matt
    The 60/40 didn't do it for me. Roasted to CS9 but wasn't very smooth, tasted too bitter despite varying the brew temp to compensate. I only got to 9 days post roast before I ran out though but I've got some 40/60 resting now to try out in about a week!

  12. #12
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Mick
    How long was your roast time? I only take my roasts to the very first rice bubbles of second crack at 225 - then they can really seem to handle a slow pour, even drippy, without bitterness. I tend to only get bitter with that particular blend when I take it a bit too dark - because then the africans tend to be overdone while the Indo is OK… better a good Afr with a bit more acidity in a lighter Indo IMHO…
    Could also try a coarser grind?

    Here's a sample of my standard roast profile - just happens to be a mocha java too - for interests sakes… :-)

    Matt

    20130317-200g Java 150g Eth Oromia.jpg

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    Thanks Matt, I put 450g through a Behmor on 1 P3 C. 1st crack was at 16:48 mins with 2nd at 20:40 where I stopped shortly after before it started to roll. Final result was a CS9.

    My next batch is 60% Sumatra Lake Toba 40% Ethio Oromia. Same roast profile but the bean mix roasted faster so it got away from me a bit and came out as a CS10/11.

    Still resting it at the mo as I have 450g of Ugandan to try before I taste it!

    Do you tend to go lighter? Do you know where on the CS card?

    Mick

  14. #14
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Mick
    In all honesty, I don't use the card much anymore. Good for a general early guide - but there are sooooo many more variables I've found. I've got a fully covered corretto, so I can't see a thing anyway! My roasts would probably be CS8-9 if I checked…

    My system is now all based on the DMM temp - 225 is when I drop as a rule. Some beans (like a SO Mexican) I might take to 227 to get a bit darker - some like a Harrar maybe 224.
    But I just note the taste and feel - and adjust the drop temp next time. If the beans are oily and bitter in the cup - drop 1 earlier and try again. Sour - add 1.

    Just to confuse things - total time also impacts. I've played with maintaining the same drop temp (which end up the same CS colour in reality) and shortening / lengthening the time to get there. In my experience - as you shorten this time, you can get more acidity up to under-roasted sourness - take it too long (baking), you lose some of the aromatics and can get bitter results. Beans look he same - taste very different!

    My hunch (and I say hunch only!) would be that with your current 20min roast profile, which will really roast nice and deep into the bean, maybe stop 30 sec's earlier - just on the first little snap of second crack and see what difference it makes. If it's still bitter - take another 30sec. This is where the DMM helps - you know where you are up to very consistently.
    IMHO these pre-roast M/J blends don't like going as dark as CS9… the africans get extra crispy!

    The other advantage I've found with going lighter, is that you can always going finer with the grind and really wring it out to get more flavour - but you can't get rid of over-roasted bitterness - no matter how coarse you go.


    Just my second crack
    Matt
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    Cheers Matt, thanks for the advice! I've done 34 roasts so far but still so much to learn!

    I am now concerned about my Ugandan beans at CS9 though! They're only 3 days post roast but I just ran out this morning so I'm going to dial them in in a sec

  16. #16
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    All you can do is taste. :-)
    See how they go - those Ugandan's are a lovely bean!

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    Just tried another batch of Sumatra Lake Toba/Ethopia Oromia roasted to CS8 this time. Man this is so much better than the CS11 batch Currently 6 days old and a lovely shot with none of the bitterness of the over roasted batch last week Should have enough to last the week and see how it develops.

    Then it's off to a new experimental batch of 350g Guatemala Jacaltenango-100g Ethopia Ghimbi. Loved the spice of the Guatemala as an SO but thought a little Ghimbi might make a nice balance for a blend.

    Mick

  18. #18
    Senior Member daledugahole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    Then it's off to a new experimental batch of 350g Guatemala Jacaltenango-100g Ethopia Ghimbi. Loved the spice of the Guatemala as an SO but thought a little Ghimbi might make a nice balance for a blend.
    Mick
    how did this mix end up out of interest? I've just got my first bag of jacaltenango and will do it SO before attempting any blends. I've got the Ethiopian yirgacheff, would that still work instead of the ghimbi?
    Ta
    Link

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by daledugahole View Post
    how did this mix end up out of interest? I've just got my first bag of jacaltenango and will do it SO before attempting any blends. I've got the Ethiopian yirgacheff, would that still work instead of the ghimbi?
    Ta
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    I only got it to CS8 so I think it would have been better darker. I also ran out way too soon to let it develop and ran out at 9 days post roast. At that point I liked it but had to increase the brerw temp to bring out the Ghimbi. Think it would be better around the 15 day mark too so let me know how you go.

  20. #20
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    After a fair while focussing on SO's to tune up my roast profiling and the like, just enjoying a batch of the old favourite, Mocha Java.
    Two separate roasts with a Blue Batak/Sulawesi Blue component roast and then a SO Gambella Sundried roast.
    Sublime! Amazing, aromatic chocolate as a F/W, and sweet fragrant, syrupy espresso with some fruits in there somewhere…

    Why has it been so long!!!!

    20150117-SulBlue-BluBatak.jpg 20150118-Gambella-20amb.jpg
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    Has anyone tried Yirgacheffe in a mocha/ java blend? I've got some Sulewasi a Blue and Yirg Special prep and was wondering whether the Yirg would work ok or whether it's too "out there". I've only ever roasted Yirg lightly for filter/aeropress and can't imagine how it would go as an SO or part of a blend for espresso.

  22. #22
    TC
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    It would be an atypical MJ in my opinion.

    If you're choosing BeanBay beans, perhaps Harrar, Gambella or if you want to do something wonderful, go the Yemen (we do!).

  23. #23
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    Second the above. It would give an 'interesting' MJ result!
    I love the Yirg - and if you want a great blend, 50/50 Yirg and a central (Guat, Mex etc) gives an amazing spicy, aromatic, fruit result - but no chocolate

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    Thanks for confirming. It might be time to bite the bullet and order the Yemen.

  25. #25
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    Roasted up 1kg of Yemen Mocha Ismail/Sulawesi Blue 50/50 blend, taken to the first snaps of second crack, roast time of 14min30sec.
    Pulled an espresso shot this morning (9 days post roast) with rich viscous mouthfeel, sweet, rich dark cocoa notes with a hint of spice and lingering bittersweet cocoa on the palate.
    Just had a flat white displaying rich caramel/chocolate/cocoa notes punching through the milk, my wife even commented on the taste after having had no taste with the flu for days!!!
    coffeechris and Dimal like this.

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