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Thread: EM4820 vs EM5000 vs Icona ECO310

  1. #1
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    EM4820 vs EM5000 vs Icona ECO310

    Hi snobs, sorry to post another cheap machine thread but having done some searching on here I couldn't find the advice I was after.

    I was given a Myer gift voucher and thought I'd use it to replace my very old and badly leaking Saeco machine. My budget is tight and it has to be Myer because of the voucher, so 'just save up and get a xxxx' won't help in this situation.

    The options I'm looking at are the Sunbeam EM4820 or EM5000 (only $30 difference at the moment), Delonghi Icona ECO310 or *maybe* could stretch the budget to a Delonghi ECI341.

    I want to get a single wall basket for whichever machine I end up with.

    Is there any reason to prefer one of these machines to the others? They're all similar prices. I'll be pulling 2-4 shots a day for lattes and iced coffees.

    If it was worth it I could maybe go up to the Delonghi ECZ351 but that would be stretching my budget.

    TIA

  2. #2
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAttack View Post
    Hi snobs, sorry to post another cheap machine thread but having done some searching on here I couldn't find the advice I was after.

    I was given a Myer gift voucher and thought I'd use it to replace my very old and badly leaking Saeco machine. My budget is tight and it has to be Myer because of the voucher, so 'just save up and get a xxxx' won't help in this situation.

    The options I'm looking at are the Sunbeam EM4820 or EM5000 (only $30 difference at the moment), Delonghi Icona ECO310 or *maybe* could stretch the budget to a Delonghi ECI341.

    I want to get a single wall basket for whichever machine I end up with.

    Is there any reason to prefer one of these machines to the others? They're all similar prices. I'll be pulling 2-4 shots a day for lattes and iced coffees.

    If it was worth it I could maybe go up to the Delonghi ECZ351 but that would be stretching my budget.

    TIA
    Hey MattAttack,

    I can't comment on the Delonghis, but owned the predecessor to the EM4820 years back. With the stock basket and preground it was predictably awful, but went ok once I sourced a single wall Breville basket and group seal. It didn't last long before developing leaks though, probably due to age or maybe because it couldn't cope with the pressure of an actual espresso extraction...

    The EM5000 looks interesting, a bit less manual... I'd probably avoid it for that reason! Can't see the auto milk "frother" producing anything like microfoam. My cafe crema was glacially slow steaming milk though, so if ease of use is more important to you than milk texture I guess it might be a good tradeoff?

    Do you already have a grinder? If not, my recommendation would be to spend the voucher on a Breville Smart Grinder and grab an aeropress for $50 (which isn't much more than the single wall basket and seal would cost). You'll have better coffee and a much more reliable setup!

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    Thanks for the advice Matt. I have a second-hand EM0480 grinder that seems to be going ok.

    I do have an Aero at work and I like it but don't really find it comparable to espresso? The Aero shots I've made are a lot less intense - I think of them as a much cleaner and nicer plunger coffee rather than an espresso alternative. I drink Aeropress coffees black but wouldn't have thought they'd be strong enough for a good latte or iced espresso. I think I'm keen to have an espresso machine at home, even if it is cheap.

    I've been leaning towards the EM4820 because it's the cheapest option, and I've been assuming that in this price bracket the machines are all pretty similar.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAttack View Post
    Thanks for the advice Matt. I have a second-hand EM0480 grinder that seems to be going ok.

    I do have an Aero at work and I like it but don't really find it comparable to espresso? The Aero shots I've made are a lot less intense - I think of them as a much cleaner and nicer plunger coffee rather than an espresso alternative. I drink Aeropress coffees black but wouldn't have thought they'd be strong enough for a good latte or iced espresso. I think I'm keen to have an espresso machine at home, even if it is cheap.

    I've been leaning towards the EM4820 because it's the cheapest option, and I've been assuming that in this price bracket the machines are all pretty similar.
    Cool - yeah the 480 is a great match for any of those machines I reckon. I'd lean the same way you're thinking, unless anyone can put a convincing case for the Delonghi. At the very least you'll have a matchy-matchy setup that looks pretty decent on the bench 😉

    Haha, I used an aeropress for my daily "very-flat" white for a year or so after my 6910 died. Key to an "espresso-ish" brew is tightening up the grind, a short dwell time and relatively quick press... I agree 100% though, it's a poor substitute if what you really want is espresso. Bloody great for iced coffee though!

    Good aeropress >> bad espresso from preground, but that's not an issue if you have a grinder 👍

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    With the stock basket and preground it was predictably awful, but went ok once I sourced a single wall Breville basket and group seal.
    So do I need to replace the seal in order to use the single wall basket? On my Saeco I just removed the valve assembly from the standard basket and it seemed to work fine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAttack View Post
    So do I need to replace the seal in order to use the single wall basket? On my Saeco I just removed the valve assembly from the standard basket and it seemed to work fine.
    Maybe not - at the time (2008ish I guess) I seem to recall the advice being to do both or risk the factory seal blowing out; I'd never touched the seal in the preceding four or five years using the dual walled basket so it seemed like a good time to replace it anyway... 😉

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAttack View Post
    So do I need to replace the seal in order to use the single wall basket? On my Saeco I just removed the valve assembly from the standard basket and it seemed to work fine.
    I've never used a Delonghi espresso machine so I can't comment on them. Of the two Sunbeams I'd definitely go for the EM4820. I bought one second hand in late 2015. It was a bit grubby and needed a new group seal, but was otherwise ok. I cleaned it up, removed the plastic insert from the portafilter, got a single wall basket for it and it worked well. I used it on and off for a month or so both at home and work then gave it to my brother. It's still going strong today. He replaced the group seal when one split and I replaced the collar on it a few months ago, but that's all it's needed. I'm sure it'll die at some stage, but in the meantime it's making very acceptable coffee paired with an EM0450 grinder. It's got the best steam wand tip of all the appliance machines and I've actually used that tip on other machines to improve their milk steaming. Just make sure you don't over dose it, around 14-15g is all it'll take in the Breville single wall basket. And don't over tighten the handle as you'll wear out the collar. Grab an extended warranty from Myer if our can and you'll be good to go. Also if you're buying a single wall basket you might as well grab a group seal at the same time. You shouldn't have to use it, but you might do. Plus it's always good to have a spare on hand if you need it. Hope this helps.
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    Thanks for this LeroyC.

    I cleaned it up, removed the plastic insert from the portafilter, got a single wall basket for it and it worked well.
    Where did you get the single wall basket? Ideally I'll get a second PF with a single wall basket, because I suspect my partner will still want to use the stock double-will basket.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAttack View Post
    Thanks for this LeroyC.



    Where did you get the single wall basket? Ideally I'll get a second PF with a single wall basket, because I suspect my partner will still want to use the stock double-will basket.
    I live in New Zealand so I'm not up to speed with all the options for sourcing parts like this in Australia. One supplier I have used is Ewing Electrical in Nowra. They're an appliance service agent for a heap of brands and sell a lot of parts on eBay. Maybe start by giving them a call. If they can't help they might be able to point you in the right direction.

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    Thanks all for advice. I picked up the EM4820 today. If I can impose on you all for some advice:

    I wasn't expecting much from my first shot as I haven't used the machine before and haven't got a single wall basket yet.

    In any case, the shot poured too quickly - around 20 seconds for a double shot that ended up being 77ml. To me this would mean I need a finer grind. But then the shot tasted a little murky/dirty which I usually associate with grinding too fine. It didn't taste horrible, but not great either. Dose was 20g. I think if anything I tamp too hard rather than too soft.

    What's your advice, brains trust? Finer grind, harder tamp, or just don't expect anything better until I get the single wall basket?
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  11. #11
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Lower your dose for starters. I found the optimum dose on the EM4820 when using a single wall basket was about 14.5g. You might be able to go up to 16g, but any more than that is a big over-dose and you risk having the portafilter not lock in properly. This is a classic mistake that people make with Sunbeam machines especially. They end up getting water leaking around the group during an extraction so crank the handle harder which in turn wears out the collar. The machine is very sensitive to dose so staying below 16g I'd say is essential. With that being the case you'll definitely need a finer grind. You're right that you may not get too good a result from the dual wall basket no matter what you do, but try to set your parameters correctly anyway. The 'muddied' taste could be due to the dual wall basket or it may have been sourness due to a weak, but underextracted shot. Hope this makes sense.
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  12. #12
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    Wonder if there is an update. The guys in Wellington can't supply the breville single wall baskets now. I gave mine away and they could not resupply.

    So I use the Krupps single walled double basket, and I got a bigger double from alibaba.
    But also just found Ewing Electrical in Aust can supply the Breville single and double single wall baskets.

    I have found multiple tamping can "choke" my EM 4800c.
    Single tamp, same grind not a problem.

    Maybe I have been overdosing as well Leroy.
    What would your recommendation be in grams for double basket?

  13. #13
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    Wonder if there is an update. The guys in Wellington can't supply the breville single wall baskets now. I gave mine away and they could not resupply.

    So I use the Krupps single walled double basket, and I got a bigger double from alibaba.
    But also just found Ewing Electrical in Aust can supply the Breville single and double single wall baskets.

    I have found multiple tamping can "choke" my EM 4800c.
    Single tamp, same grind not a problem.

    Maybe I have been overdosing as well Leroy.
    What would your recommendation be in grams for double basket?
    In the proper Breville/Sunbeam single wall, dbl shot basket I recommend a dose of 14-15g. For most light-med roasted coffees 14g is plenty.
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    Rawill, I haven't gotte around to getting a new basket for the EM4820 yet. Do you have a link to the basket you got from Alibaba?

    I've been thinking about getting a Breville basket from Ewing but they're pretty pricey. I'm told Krupps aren't making the single wall basket anymore which is a shame.

  15. #15
    Rbn
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    I will have a look, but as it happens, I seem to have doubled up on another order.
    I have probably got a "spare one" that will be surplus.

    I got my Krupps single walled double basket, from Pullman, site sponsors.
    Again I may have a spare, because thought I ordered a single shot, single walled Krupps.
    When it arrived it was a double, i found they don't make single walled single shot baskets.

    Robin
    Last edited by Javaphile; 20th August 2017 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Removed eBay link

  16. #16
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I found one single wall single shot basket and one double wall single shot basket on a shelf yesterday for my old 800ES that has long since departed. Does anyone want them? They're no good to me, just PM me your address.
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  17. #17
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    Thanks to Robin's advice I bought the following single wall double shot basket from eBay for next to nothing. Fits well in my Sunbeam holder, although I did take out the plastic insert to give it more space. All going well so far. Thanks for the advice Robin!

    eBay link removed as per Site Posting Policy
    Last edited by Javaphile; 5th October 2017 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Removed eBay link(s)
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  18. #18
    Rbn
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    Will be interested to know how it goes. I find I am grinding too fine, and chocking my EM5600!

    I know, I know, I should back off, but getting the right spot between a "choker" and a "gusher" seems more problematic than I expected.

    I used to be happy with what I was getting, but I keep pushing the limits!
    And of course, silly me, I am using a bottomless P/F. so all my mistakes show up!

  19. #19
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    My apologies for posting the eBay link. If anyone is looking for a single wall basket for th EM4820, let me know and I can advise on an inexpensive one that fits the machine. I hope this is allowed - I have no connection with the seller.

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