In coffeeparts US the machines parts seems to be described as Due/E91
Does anyone know what the group is on the Due - E?
In coffeeparts US the machines parts seems to be described as Due/E91
Congratulations to you and Mrs. Robusto :)Originally Posted by robusto link=1181202738/45#48 date=1181378222
Just noticed an almost identical machine on the bay of evilness that has not been looked after anywhere near as well as your machine Oz, for about 6 times the price :o.... what a beauty eh?
Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1181387439]This Thread[/link]
...the wattage rating that I quoted was for the single group...mine is between 5000w and 6000w!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
You can probably tame this down a bit Oz, no need for all that juice in a home situation. Might be just a matter of disconnecting one or a couple of the elements. Dont panic ;), yet!!!
....phew! Is that hard to do Mal - are they individually wired, so that I can disconnect one or two?
There is always three elements with coffee machines at that power rating.... and I suspect it may have been configured for 3 phase 415V operation (mine was).
It is a relatively simple job to isolate one or two of the elements (if you have some sparky knowledge - or know someone who does).
What sort of connector is on the end of the power cable .... post a photo and we should be able to tell you if it is 3 phase.... still easy to convert- just a little more tricky!!
Thanks JavaB - the connector looks like a 15-20 amp - not one of the big 3 phase plugs, so that might make things easier?
Cheers and thanks for the help.
It might have already been modded to save on power in that case. 20Amp would be a maximum of 4800W.... less a little for the pump and electronics.... so maybe they have only 2 elements connected (and that is also quite normal for single phase connected coffee machines).Originally Posted by ozscott link=1181202738/45#59 date=1181398907
The La Cimbalis standard config is 3 heaters for 3 phase and only 2 for single phase (to keep below 15A).... but hey why should it take any longer than the three phase version?.... so just a little tweak ;) , a 20 Amp dedicated power run and all 4000 W are online!!
Thanks for that...I am picking it up tomorrow...I must be excited because i have already changed my handle details below!!!!
Congrats on joining the extreme machine club.
Obviously things moved pretty fast since I last logged on.
A 20 amp plug looks has far bigger lugs than the 10/15 A variety. A 15 A plug only differes by having a larger earth pin. So if its a 20 A it should be obvious.
One thing a commercial has all over a domestic/prosumer is steaming power. Its huge and the steaming is fast. But youd never want to go back.
PICKED IT UP!!!!
The lovely lady that owned it told me that you MUST backflush each day and she uses Nappysan....She has done it each day. It does not get much use - only 6 or so shots per day for the last few years, but kept on every day.
I got the stainless braid water lines, a massive water filter (a foot long if its an inch) the stainless bracket for same, a heavy brass pressure regulator, the 3 PFS with ridged baskets including a blind, 3 stainless jugs including one that would have to hold a litre plus easily and of course a half full pack of Nappysan.....the filter had a change date of Christmas 06 on it but it seems that as they didnt use it much they got a bit lax on that - I dont think thats the end of the world. From what I can see it looks like a very nice machine. I will post some pics once its out of the truck and into the kitchen. Its definately not 3 phase and the power box in the front under the drip tray says 3.2kw from memory (so 3200watts) and it looks like a 15 amp plug but I havnt paid too much attention (ie bigger earth). I may get away with a GPO change, but maybee not.
....I have read the Nappy San challenge thread - personally I would prefer to use proper cleaner and will do so from hereon in, however I immagine that the use of Nappy San (which was reccomended by the Espresso supplier and servicer) is better with proper flushing after than not using anything...
Had a good look at the plug and power unit - its 3.8kw so she is 3800watt and the plug is definately 15amp.....which I reckon is not so flash because 3800/240 = 15.88 amp draw...so maybee some slightly warm wiring and plug....it was a little warm when I disconected it! I wonder whether the wire is 15 amp also, or whether it was wired at 20 amp. I might have to remove the plug and measure the copper diameter to find out....and if no good get it replaced...
Thanks Dennis.Originally Posted by Dennis link=1181202738/45#52 date=1181384991
Hey Ozscott...reading through this thread I can "hear" the excitement in your posts. Congratuations on your acquisition and will look forward to seeing photos. In the meantime, can I suggest you dont leave her plugged in while your not watching! ;)
Thanks Dennis - its now in my Kitchen and its massive! But its growing on me.
I have not got it plumbed or wired in yet, so I am just admiring it....although its possible that I will pull off all the Poly panels and spray paint them white!....lots of grey at the mo
You may find the element is 3.6 kW and the remainder of the rating extends to the pump motor and various valves which quickly add up to 0.2 kW. Still its on the top end of a 15 A circuit and probably should be 20A based on the rating you quote.
Ill bet the Faema could CRUSH the Sunbeam!
I look forward to hearing about the first shots.
BTW: Nappisan for backflushing is fine IMO. Theres nothing particularly fragile in the backflush path to worry about. The 3-way valve that exhausts the group uses a sapphire-on-steel seal, so is pretty tough.
the next question, will you be as stout a champion of commercials as you have been of the Sunbeam?
Owner of commercials among others!
...Hahahah...I like it Brett. Its a good question. The thing is that I have always been a champion of the Sunbeam in its category...I was happy when the extensive testing by Greg Pullman seemed to put to bed this idea that some (not all of course) had that just because it was a thermoblock (and perhaps because it was made by a lightweight in terms of pedigree in China) it could not be as good as the slightly more expensive Silvia - that was really what the debate was all about...the EMs getting canned by some without much considered debate or testing. I think however that his old girl is so far out of the little EMs category (it didnt look little before by the way) that a comparrison will not be fair. The new price of one of these babys is over $12k.
I have been muttering on this site for a while now that one day I would upgrade to a HX, but I must admit I never saw this coming!!
I soaked the PFs in Napisan this PM for a couple of hours and they have come out as shiny (almost) as the new ones on the EM - they were very tarnished so I am wrapped about it!
Cheers again and will update with photos soon.
Its comforting to knowthe little old lady had a cleaning regime to keep her/your machine free of sticky coffee oils.
But I would suspect that daily backflushing with nappysan or any other cleanser is unnecessary.
Backflushing with the machines own hot water, yes -- daily.
Hot water on stainless steel does a great job. For the residual oils, once a week or fortnight with chemicals ought to be enough.
On my Grimac with its quaint system of pre-infusion using the volumetric touch pads, backflushing is automatically done with every shot.
Ive pulled apart the valves and they were spotless.
Now thats a great system Robusto....I like auto cleaning on things. My wifes Land Rover has auto cleaning on the headlights - every 3rd time she cleans her windscreen the headlight washers come on for about 5 seconds and blast the lights. Its a 95 model and I think that was a pretty good idea, because its out of sight, out of mind stuff....bit off topic but you get my drift.
Photos as promised
..........................................one of the groups
............................front of machine.....makes Rocky look a bit smaller than when near the EM6910
just a thought re your Pullman and different baskets. will the sunbeam basket fit in the Feama portafilter? at least that way you wont really have to modify your routine.
...it will matey...tried that earlier today...but the Sunbeam baskets are not ridged...the Faema PF handle seems to need the ridged baskets to fit in snugly.....but I will see whether they will stick up to the screen or not....Cheers
would swapping the sunbeam spring help?Originally Posted by ozscott link=1181202738/75#78 date=1181530831
I will give that a try mate and see...Cheers
Looks in tip-top condition Ozscott, particularly noticed the clean threads on the pipes, so dismantling should not be a hazzle were the need to arise.
And still looks mighty fine on the outside. If you can live with the size ---and with a little effort you can mentally shrink these monsters---definitely keep it, boast about it, enjoy it.
Yep, thats one fine looking machine - and appears to be in excellent condition.
You got yourself a real bargain there..... excellent!!!
They arent really that large..... the size grows on you.... and the convenience and great coffees they produce.... what more can I say!!
Thanks a lot Robusto and JavaB. I am seeing it smaller every hour!!! Even my better half likes it and wants to put deeper cupboards in above it (my little home improvement list continues)....quid pro quo I suppose.
I am keen to wire it up, but we are installing a rangehood and I am getting a sparky to install that in a few weeks, so I will wait for that and get the Faema wired up then....to keep costs down.
I cant wait to pull shots with it. One thing I noticed when I used it at the previous owners was how quiet the pump is when pulling a shot. I also couldnt help but notice the steaming power from the 4 tip which is outrageous....and at least then not as hard as I anticipated. The microfoam was about 4 inches thick!
Thats a very nice looking machine. Something is missing though......
Now youll need more cups.
With 3 PFs it may be worth converting one to a naked. My third Pav PF will be up for the chop pretty soon. Its a great diagnostic tool and also pretty interesting to watch the coffee ooze out.... or squirt out if alls not right.
good point mate - there is room for a hell of a lot of them!! I will do the cut down on one of the PFs as soon as I can.
Just as a matter of interest (on the basis that I might have fried mine :() how long do the pumps last for normally? In this case a Faema 2 group.
Pretty damn long time...
Id say my La Cimbali still has the original pump (It is hard to tell for sure but appears to be original)..... It was used in a cafe heavily for 17 years.... and Ive had it for a year...... still going strong at 9 Bars with both groups and boiler fill operating at the same time..... The previous owner when I bought the machine said other than routine maintenance, the only thing which had been replaced was the computer board - a few months before sale.... and he complained about the price of that.... so I think he would have remembered shelling out a couple of hundred for a new pump (plus cost of fitting).
But if they are ever run dry, or have to pull water from a reservoir when they arent designed to (like the pump on the La Cimbali - must have 3.5 Bar supply pressure).... they die pretty quickly. Both in the cafe and here my pump is supplied with water at 5 Bar.... so it doesnt need to work so hard.
....mine ran dry...silly me...dont know if its dead yet but it ran for about 15 10 seconds twice and for 5 seconds a third time - with about a minute rest between each!!!1
I will connect to mains pressure tomorrow and see whats what
I would have trouble finding a better bargain posted anywhere in CS.
Very nice find.
I like the "catchcan" on top of the boiler, not something I have seen before but makes a lot of sense for then the valve starts to weep. Does the tube at the base of it run into the drip tray?
I would think it should survive for a short period like that - as long as there was some residual water in the pump to lubricate the seals.Originally Posted by ozscott link=1181737511/0#2 date=1181739878
Is it making a lot of noise now?.... or why do you think it has failed?
If it is a procon pump they can not only pump from a reservoir but also lift water up from the reservoir without a problem. Some brands cant do either and they fail if you attempt to run them that way. Do you know what brand your pump is?
I think its a Procon based on the diagram on coffee parts, but its a bit hard to tell...the manual isnt much help because apart from a picture that isnt from the same angle as those on coffee parts it just calls it a positive displacment pump (that means vein in this context I think) - it does say that it must be connected to mains at 6 bar, so it may not be able to self prime....I was concerned because I had described what happened to Sparky and he made the point that my pump could be damaged....I then googled and read up and sure enough most people seem to say that the pump will fail or will at least be damaged if run dry at all (Sparky thought for more than about 30 seconds)... it didnt start making noise...was very quiet. Until it runs for a couple of days on mains however I will be on tenterhooks.
it espressed some water each time except for the last time (the shortest runs) which let out steam from the group
Yeah I think Faema and La Cimbali use similar (maybe identical) pumps. If ever replaced however they are often replaced with procon (the most common in Australia.... and one of the best as well)...
That 6 Bar requirement is similar -- mine is 3.5 to 6 Bar on the supply side.... and they do not self prime (one of the problems with this type of pump) but they are very reliable (and generally higher capacity than the procons which are fitted to other machines).
Ill keep my fingers crossed for you.... you should be OK.
Thanks JavaB - will let you know!
I wouldnt worry...30 seconds is nothing. It will take much more than 30 seconds to kill it.Originally Posted by ozscott link=1181737511/0#5 date=1181741392
Thanks Wushoes...easier sleep is settling upon me!
Procon is easy to identify have a look at the end not attached to the motor and if it says Procon then you can be sure. ;) ;)
I too would be very surprised if the pump is damaged Oz.... even if it is the same as the LC pump (extra Vane/Housing clearances) it should still be ok. Youll know quick enough anyway once you either connect her up to the mains or from a temporary (elevated ;)) water tank. As JB and others have mentioned, if it is on the way out the seals will have been damaged and probably leak as well being more noisy than normal (squealing noise).
Dont worry too much though, I think all will be well...