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Thread: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

  1. #1
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Hi all...I am going to see a machine tomorrow that is running and all I know is that it is about 5 years old and otherwise is a FAEMA 2 group.

    Can anyone who knows these machines give me some hints about values, parts availability, whether they are good machines generally etc. I know Im not giving you much detail, but any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ozscott...

    Mmmmm

    Faema 2 group,
    5 years old
    Running
    $350?????

    What the?????? :o :o :o :o :o :o That doesnt add up!! It would be quite a bargain if that is all correct.....

    Unfortunately other than it appearing to work OK (brew pressure 9 bars and steady whilst extracting, plenty of steam and boiler cycles about +- 0.1 Bar around the set point, no obvious leaks etc) there is not that much you can determine before you strip it down..... but a 5 year old machine should be in good condition (if serviced regularly)

  3. #3
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks JavaB - I have a mate who has a mate who sold his business (not coffee) and he used it fairly regularly, but not sure if it has been serviced or not...he is selling stuff off very cheaply and not just this machine. I arranged a cheap air-conditioner for him a while back to hes being very nice about this and other stuff for cash...I can heat it up and pull a few shots and see how it steams...apart from that I guess that apart from watching for leaks I cannot do to much.

    Is it somthing that would work in a home kitchen...it would need to be plumbed I assume. Is the heat up time, maintenance etc somthing that militates against using it as such? Are parts expensive? If it has not been properly serviced or at all is it a timebomb waiting to explode with the need for new boiler, valves, pump etc?

    Thanks very much

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    CoffeeParts carry an extensive range of Faema spares (which is the first thing I consider when looking at S/H commercials).... their prices are good and service excellent.....

    To get value from a commercial machine you really need to be able / willing to do maintenance yourself.... not difficult if you know how to use tools and know a bit about plumbing and electricals. They are intrinsically very reliable but if operated on tap water (without a filter) could have a lot of scale in the boiler and heat exchanger requiring a strip, descale and rebuild (which Id recommend when you get one in any case.... and then you will have years of trouble free service.

    They are big, require to be plumbed in to mains and a drain - although some models (check if it has a procon pump) can draw water from a water reservoir and you can drain into a bucket....

    They need lots of power (probably at least 15 Amps (mine requires 20 Amps) so a special power run is required.... the other option is to reduce the heater power..... takes longer to heat up and recover from steaming.... but will then run off 10 Amps (normal outlet). And 1 hour heat up before use (on full power) - works out just as cheap (expensive!!) to leave it on 24/7...

    Commercials are very reliable units, very well built, large and fairly expensive to run.... but great coffee and heaps of Ooooo Ahhhhh from friends. ::) ::)

  5. #5
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    thanks JavaB - very informative summary.

    Cheers

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Ozscott,

    Probably you will be able to get the parts from Pedro (coffeeparts). I f you can use the machine before you buy it that is great.

    Advice, open your hot water and take a glass of hot water out of it, this will tell you if the boiler is contaminated or not, if the boiler is contaminated that is a 600 to 800 dollars job, by a qualified technition.

    Valves, shower screems, seals that is easy to do.

    Good luck


    Regards


    Renzo

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Bloody Hell! Thanks for that Renzo...I am waivering already without even seeing it. If it hasnt been serviced/decscaled properly then it may be that the boiler tests of with a glass of hot water, but starts being dodgy in the next few years. Given the cost of a brand new Giotto or Expobar it starts to look less attractive!!

    Cheers

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Yep, as I said, you have to be willing and able to do the work on a Commercial machine yourself....

    Pop over to the "Extreme Machine" thread and you will get an idea what we do when we get one of these - basically most of us do a full strip and rebuild (Mal is still completing his)

    Its time consuming but parts arent hard to get or expensive.... however if you get someone else to do the work for you - their time is lots of $$$$$$$....

    These machines definitely arent for everyone.... A Giotto like solution would work out a far more cost effective short term and long term solution for those who havent the time and or knowledge.

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Do It!
    Once in a life time opportunity,
    easy to resell here [CS] for that price.
    "heaps of Ooooo Ahhhhh from friends."
    Cheaper than what youd get for the 6910
    See full exploded view on Coffeeparts


    Otherwise: bock bock bock bock [noise of chicken]

    or:
    buy it and sell it here [Dennis needs another extreme machine!]

  10. #10
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    thanks all....yep chicken sounds are coming from my house at present...having said that I spend enough time of boats and Land Rovers amongst other things to keep me poor and excited!

    Cheers

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1181202738/0#7 date=1181207632
    basically most of us do a full strip and rebuild (Mal is still completing his)
    More of an issue with cash flow for me rather than the amount and/or type of work that needs to be done :( .... not long now though :)

    Nothing that I could add to what the other guys have already said... its really a confidence issue more than anything else. If you think you can do the work that may be needed which will be at least a Boiler/HX descale and clean out and as Renzo says, if the boilers been contaminated with milk drawback, then this clean-up effort will have to be particularly strenuous and thorough. This would probably translate to all downstream pipework and fittings too.

    Having said all that though, at only $350.00 the worst that could probably happen is that you open the machine up and then decide its just all too much. Just put all the covers back on and turn the machine around either here or on evilbay and get your money back. No skin off your nose and the best that could happen is that you may decide that the Faema is worth tackling and that youre up to the task. Theres lots of us here who have completed or are still in the throws thereof so lots of willing helpers are on tap to help you out with any issues that may crop up. At the end of this, you may well have a machine that is the envy of all wannabe home baristi. If the Boiler water taste test is not too bad, then maybe its worth having a go??

    Mal.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks very much for that Mal - will have a look today!

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    If the machine hasnt been used in a while the boiler water may be very stale and need to be flushed out for it to taste right.


    Java "Keeping it well flushed!" phile

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Or, in the case of my establishment, poor technique by the PBTC. They never purge the steam wand. So now the steam and boiler water has milk taint. I only pull espressi from it, so Im not affected.

    It also doesnt have in-line filtration/water softening. The group head seals need replacement etc.

    Depending on not only volume of use, but technique/cleaning regimen, you might be picking up something that will end up costing double what you paid for it, just to get it into "satisfactory" condition.

  15. #15
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    OK - here is the photo - need to get it or not today because it will be up for sale tomorrow. 12 years old. Serviced somtimes. Not a lot of use, but kept on as the service fellow told them to. Initially the hot water purged with some specs in it and then it cleaned up to no problems. It pulled a coffee with the guage at 11 bar. The steam is massive.

    ??????

    S

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    No photo mate. Try again.

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    .................................................. ...


  18. #18
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    hopeless I am with tech stuff - I like the valves on this thing with unflash green knobby things

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Looks oh so 90s.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ...any thoughts you commercial oriented people?

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ....it has a foot long blue water filter and stainless braid hose running from it to the water intake...I dont know if the filter has ever been changed but its a big bugger. It makes a very good coffee even with old Victoria. It does not seem to leak and the seals feel tight - the PF only takes an inch or 2 to lock in really tight. It comes with a blind filter basket and unused milk wand frother kit for auto frothing - it has a steam wand on each end.


    I didnt taste the water, but it looked good after a couple of purges of the hot water wand, and the coffee tasted good. Having used it to texture a large jug of milk I now know what you people have been on about in terms of steaming monsters.

    It comes with the original purchase docs and user manual.


    It was $7,500 new but the owner got it for $3,500 on the basis that he used their coffee for so many years. It also comes with a 3 foot high gold victoria knock box so that I can look very pro baby...

    Any thoughts greatly appreciated...

  22. #22
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    the guage is behind the small jug and it has a water window, which I assume is for the boiler. I dont know if it accepts a resevior


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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Ozscott,

    At that price Id definitely get it...... decide if you want to restore it yourself, use as is, pay someone to restore it etc.....

    And if that all looks too hard.... put it up for sale and you will at least get your money back.... easily!!!

  24. #24
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Cheers JavaB - I am getting excited!

  25. #25
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    I know that they are probably not in the same league but I see a 2 group Seico that is said to be 8 months old with light restuarant use for $250 presently on evil bay:

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Saeco-Aroma-SE-200-2-Group-Automatic-Coffee-Machine_W0QQitemZ130122546656QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10 5832QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Yeah....

    But 6 days to go.... and you only get serious bidders in the last hour or two ( I always bid in the last 30 seconds ;))

  27. #27
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    thats what I do....I call it swooping!

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    or sniping... Ive been outbid in the last 2 secs...

    Thats a Faema Due.. Coffeeparts has all the spares at very good prices. These machines work really well. If its in working order right now, (ie making good coffee), then Id snap it up. Itd sell for around $1k on the bay-o-evil. Even without a clean up (meaning a full descale overhaul) itd run for years in home use. As youve already tasted a brew or two, Id just replace the seals and shower screens, flush out the boiler and refill it with new fresh water and youd be away. These machines can also run with an external tank, but its better to plumb them in if possible. I use a tank with my 2 group machine and its holding up fine.

    Main concerns would be the huge size and power requirements. A two group machine will usually run on a 15 amp circuit and not look too god in most kitchens.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks Mark - yep I would plumb it in. Its not the flashest looking machine - not all stainless etc, but enought stainless to go with the stove, cooktop and rangehood that it would be near; and main thing is that it would crank it out. What would power consumption be if left on 24/7 or is it best to kill it at night and heat in AM and leave on all day? Also, what would the flush out comprise?

    Realistically am I better off flogging it and using the dough towards getting a smaller prosumer like at Expobar or Bezera when upgrading?
    Cheers and thanks for the help.
    Oz

  30. #30
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ...its about 670 long and 430 deep

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Have you (and a mate at least ;) ;)) tried to lift it yet!!!

  32. #32
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    according to their website its 3800w and 11 litre boiler

  33. #33
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    havent tried yet!!! Christ there is one on evil bay (new) from the US (220 volt ) and its 30 AMP!!! and 146 odd pounds!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1181202738/30#32 date=1181302658
    havent tried yet!!! Christ there is one on evil bay (new) from the US (220 volt ) and its 30 AMP!!! and 146 odd pounds!!!!!!!!!

    Yep.... yours wouldnt really survive on a 15 amp run (Id recommend 20 Amp) and will weigh in at 60+ Kg...... (boiler empty). :o

  35. #35
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Id grab it Oz,

    Like Sparky and JB have already said, you can easily get your money back plus a bit more if its not going to work out at home, for what ever reasons, but at least you will have it right there and take your time considering all the options. Go for it mate, I would,

    Mal.

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Hi Ozscott,

    At that price and with a more or less known history, Id definitely jump on it. You may be pleasantly suprised at how little needs to be done.

    If it involved more work, a bloke that can work on boats and Land Rovers and still have his marbles should find it a doddle!

    The decision youd then have to make is whether you want a large, power hungry machine in your kitchen.

    Also, be aware that there are people here who have started out just as you have, and now know their way around the guts of a machine quite well. These same people are happy to share that info.....

    Go on, go for it,
    Phil

  37. #37
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks all....bought it $350, with 3 PFs and baskets, including a blind to flush, frother (unused) and 2 stainless jugs. I will collect it tomorrow. I guess that I will need to have Greg make me up a new tamper...are the baskets the same size as the EM6910 - they look bigger...?

    I will pumb it in and have an electrician stick in a dedicated line back to its own fuse and a 20 amp plug.

    I am hoping that the Rocky will be up to the machine...I think that the consensus on one thread a while back was that it might just do a commercial machine, but ithat a user would not get the most out of the machine with that grinder. I will experiment and see I guess. I dont really want to flog the Rocky and pay for a flasher commercial one if I can get away with it. I can stall my EM with the Rocky if I try and hopefully it will be consistent enough.

    Cheers for all your help everyone.

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ozscott

    Congratulations!!! You wont be sorry. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    The baskets will be the same size as the 6910 - 58mm - but could vary by a fraction of a mm (as do all baskets).... you existing tamper should be good enough - at least for now.

    The rocky also should be up to the task.... unless you are wanting to set up a cafe.... in which case it wont be able to keep up (and probably wont like the constant grinding). Its not the best "kid on the block" for the job but again should be adequate.

    Let us know how it all goes once up and operating..... you will love the espressos.... and as you already know- it has heaps of steaming power (just a tad more than the 6910 ;) ;))

  39. #39
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Well done matey,....your now a member of the extreme machines club!
    Sounds like a bargain....3 PFs and baskets would cost that much.

    look foward to hearing more about it as you progress.
    A picture would be nice too.

    The rocky will be upto the job, its only limitation is that its stepped, but most agree the resolution of the steps is fine.

    Will we see a 6910 up for sale soon?

  40. #40
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    ...may do...its a very nice little machine in its own right (the 6910) and I dont want to part with it, but it might depend on what someone wants to pay for it...its 6 months old!

    Cheers

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Looks pretty extreme, and at 670 wide --thats big alright --its up to you (and your wife) to decide whether it sits comfortably in the kitchen.

    Think of the advantages when you have some people over: singles, doubles, espressos, lattes --- it will handle them all absolutely effortlessly, no recovery time needed.

    Being a lover of commercial machines, I would definitely keep it over a prosumer model any day.

    Its best to be on the safe side and recharge the water softener with salt.

    To flush it, descale it professionally costs hundreds, but you can do it yourself. Properly, by dismantling every pipe to the boiler, removing the element etc...quite a fair bit of work...soaking everything in citric acid....rinsing and reassembling.

    That can be a confronting exercise and if you are not confident, best not to do it. You can damage fittings or forget where they came from. They are soft copper and can be twisted and wrecked if excessive force is applied to stubborn fittings.

    To simply flush out the stale water, if you have a hot water tap, open that and remove the boiler water, letting it refill. Make sure the autofill feature is working, check sight glass to keep water at required level. Otherwise, with some machines, theres a risk of leaving the element above water.

    The water you are using to make coffee is not boiler water -- it is fresh water from the tap heated by the exchanger. That should and does taste OK.

    But taste the boiler water: draw some out through the tap, let it cool and see if it has any offtastes.

    Before plumbing in and cutting holes in the kitchen benches through which to feed pipes, Id use it on a tank. If you change your mind in a week or two, your bench is still intact.

    (Ive had mine for months and have not yet been game to pull out the hole saw and cut the bench. The pipes go through an open cupboard door underneath)

    Leaving it on all day? If you are home to use it, yes. But if its only a coffee in the morning and one at night, perhaps switch it on an hour beforehand. It will take about 7 minutes alone of constant heat to bring up the boiler to pressure. That is, no pressurestat cycling on/off for that period. Then the groups have to heat up etc.

    The electricity bill for that seven minutes (at 12c per kwh) will be approx 4 cents.

    Enjoy it, and if you dont mind the size, keep it and enjoy it permanently.

    --Robusto



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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Ive been thinking if a Giotto, Makin, Domus, Vibemme etc. would these machines make better coffee or would these big machines make better coffee? Just as side by side taste not on speed.

  43. #43
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks Robusto ...will do the checks. I had to cut a whole in the bench top for a cord for the Microwave underneath (ie cord up through and to the power point directly above the bench) so I will use that hole.

    I will get it home and have play once plumbed and wired in (which might take a few weeks) and then report back....

    Cheers

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1181202738/30#41 date=1181366758
    Ive been thinking if a Giotto, Makin, Domus, Vibemme etc. would these machines make better coffee or would these big machines make better coffee? Just as side by side taste not on speed.
    I had a laugh why save for a car when you can save for a coffee machine 8-)

  45. #45
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Does one machine make better coffee than another? Anything from a Silvia/Botticelli type (not familiar with the new Sunbeams so cant comment) up to extreme machines like Synessos can make fantastic coffees.
    Whether you or I could make better coffees on a Giotto or a Faema two group would depend largely on our understanding of the quirks of that machine and our technique.
    Probably more important are the amount you are prepared to spend, the amount of space you have, whether you want to plumb a machine in or not and whether you need to make 200+ coffees a day!
    Having said that Ive had fantastic coffees from single boilers, small prosumer hxs and commercials.
    Probably doesnt help!
    Brett

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Id agree totally with telemasters comments above....

    Any decent machine can make fantastic coffees given correct technique for the particular machine..... equally a Synesso can produce cr@p coffee in the wrong hands...

    The size of machine is more about volume capability than anything else. I make 20+ (sometimes even 30+) coffees in quick succession from time to time.... A breeze with my 2 group, more of a task with a Giotto but certainly not impossible.... and a right pain with something like a silvia - but still possible.

    Taste difference (IMHO) between all these machine would be minimal if any at all..... unless flat out making heaps of coffees where frustration with the slower machines might cause some sloppy technique to creep in - resulting in poorer quality coffee.

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Well based on the Pullman Compak Grinder Index, you should knock 25% off its price which makes it $450 and itll sell in 30 minutes! ::)

  48. #48
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Well done Oz [smiley=thumbsup.gif],

    Youve got yourself a superlative machine there and after a bit of elbow grease here and there, it will also be an extremely reliable one 8-).... And thats what these machines are all about really, high capacity and high reliability. In a home situation it will last you forever. I wouldnt worry too much about whether Rocky is up to the job or not, hell do just fine until such time as you covert your home into a café ;). A truly great find there mate, without doubt,

    Mal.

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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Agree with Telemaster and JavaB on whether these machines can or do make better coffee -- these are the sort of commercial machines which are in commercial cafes and restaurants, producing the very same coffee which we snobs rightly complain about.

    Because they are in the wrong hands, using inferior beans.

    By the way, last night Mrs Robusto and I went out to a restaurant to celebrate our wedding anniversary .... and on the way out I asked the waitress/barista what brand of machine that nice-looking two-grouper was.

    She didnt know, and had trouble pronouncing from the nameplate.
    "La Cimbal"

    Now if I was employed to make coffee, perhaps the first thing Id want to know--- out of curiosity if nothing else, was the brand of machine Id be using.

    -Robusto

  50. #50
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: FAEMA 2 GROUP - value at about $350

    Thanks Mal - I am excited just like Ozzy Bob!

    Thanks Greg - I might sell the EM, but I think I will wait until the big machine is up and burning at home first. I think it will sell quickly enough.

    Cheers

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