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Thread: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

  1. #1
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    Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Embarresed to be placing this here a little but I have seen a few similar threads here with older machines so here goes.

    The beasty was purchased from that evil fleabay place for $127 so I didnt expect much *::)

    Old, dirty, a bit rough externally, smelly & greasy (think it came from a takeaway shop by the smell *:P ) but still fairly sound in the chassis.

    Hope to have it ready for Chritmas things being well with a full strip, rewire, clean and an external tidyup.

    Speaking of wiring, would any of you have a wiring diagram for one of these? I have found exploded views but no wiring.








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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    I have seen worse looking machines still in use in coffee shops.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    This model was well known as an incorrigible, recalcitrant coffee burner.

    Suggest the following advice:

    when setting after rebuild, set boiler pressure / mercury switch to switch off at no higher than 0.9 bar...and possibly lower depending on how it goes if you run tests at various settings...the machine has a sizeable boiler so once up to pressure there is plenty of reserve and it should be able to stand being run at "low" pressure (from the point of view of its affecting brew temperature).

    Dont even bother trying to source replacement group auto timers, waste of time and money and very obsolete. Even if you do find, they are not accurate......

    Be prepared to run long group flushes before making each coffee to bring the brew temp down to a more acceptable level.

    Regardz,
    Attilio.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Cheers Attilio for the info,

    It is also listed as 4.5kW of heating so I think I will be dropping one or adding a multi-position switch for them for a start too so I can get near a normal power point.

    Noticed this morning that the boiler is still part full :P :P should be full of all sorts of goodies by now. The portafilters that came with it look like they were used to scoop oil from the fryers as well :P

    Given the current push for PIDs on smaller machines I was also considering doing some creative rewiring to try and incorporate one of these (my nerdy electrical engineering background coming out ;) ) into the rebuilt machine.

    At the end of the day it is a plaything and doesnt owe me much. If I finish up with a goer then I will be well in front.

    A man has to have his toys 8-)

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    I just picked on of these up too, can you help with some thing? it looks like it has two water inlets, but that cant be right, is one a water outlet? and if so, which one?

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    I have one as well sitting in the shed It looks exactly the same as yours but painted bronze intead of red. Anyway I havent tried it out yet as am currently using my Z11 3 group (detuned to run on 10 amp outlet).

    Do you have any idea of the age of these Z9s or does anybody, on that issus does anyone have any good resources they can point me towards in regards to rancilio models and history *from say 70s to present. I found the Rancilio website was not very specfic.

    Cheers

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    whoops wasnt watching my own thread :-[ I will check out mine I know this one has a moccopan service tag on it which may have a date.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Yeah no dramas, I might need to pick your brain sometime in the future when I decide to try to get mine running. Cheers

  9. #9
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    love the look of this machine. I just thought Id comment on how cool it is that youve posted your machine up here, and Fresh_Coffee (Attilio) posted some honest tips for your machine... brilliant advice. This place is a haven for potentially buried information :)

    James

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Hi all.

    Ive just got myself a 1-group machine of the same type, and would also appreciate any advice or diagrams that people might have lying around!

    Ill take some shots and let you know how it goes.

    Sam.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Ive uploaded the diagrams (pdf format) for the z9 to here:

    http://www.box.net/shared/pc2mrhsgs6

    The files were too big to attach directly.

    Not sure if this helps or not?

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Yeah thanks for the diagrams they were great.

    I still havent really started playing with my Z9 much, but I was wondering home you guys were going with yours?

    Cheers

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Very slow going this end as I have only got a usable workshop in the last month. I have decided it will be a good winter project now I am back to 6 days a week and have some spare time.

    I actually have another of them now ::) The second one has a control issue and wasnt shutting off the element but for the $70 and some frieght it will make for cheap spares and it came with 3 more portafilters.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    can i ask where are you finding them for these cheap prices?

    i need a project very soon..........

    been sniffing around SYD but yet to find them that cheap....

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    EvilBay the place that can not be named [smiley=evil.gif]

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Hi all

    I have taken this project over from bf (may the coffee gods have mercy). Im hoping to learn a bit about coffee machines and setting them up and adjusting them the right way. Hopefully having some fun(must sacrifice something...someone...to appease the gods). At the end of the day Im hoping I have a machine that I know can produce the goods when we have a few people around.Whether I can or not is another story. From what Attilio says I might have a bit of work ahead of me.

    At the moment she(havent named her yet) is stripped down to be descaled and painted.
    After pulling the boiler apart I have ruined all the gaskets. The end cover and element gaskets I could probably make up but the HX gaskets/seals will be a lot tougher to make. Any ideas?

    The pf seals looks like they are as old as the machine and trying to remove them is near impossible(for me that is). Any ideas?

    I figure new supplies will be rare as hens teeth but if there is a sponsor/cser that has some I would love to know.

    Any ideas or comments will be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers

    Drew




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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Put in an order with Coffee Parts today should be starting to reassemble next week.

    Thanks for the kink BF. :)

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Thanks for the kink BF.
    aaah,,,,,link

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Hey Javmad

    Replied to your post on my thread, but just saw your thread here. Some answers for your questions -

    The end cover and element gaskets I could probably make up but the HX gaskets/seals will be a lot tougher to make. Any ideas?

    I made all three seals from car head gasket material that you can buy from a SuperCheapAuto type place in a big sheet. Perfect for forming to imperfections and contrary to what I feared, no imparting of flavours. I tried to make/use the gaskets that you can buy from CParts, but unless your boiler has perfect dimensions and a mirror finish it will likely leak. I had significant dramas stripping the boiler so my dimensions were a little out of whack.

    The pf seals looks like they are as old as the machine and trying to remove them is near impossible(for me that is). Any ideas?

    For the group head portafilter seals I had the same problem. Easiest way to remove them is to screw a self-tapping screw into the rubber and pull it out in sections. Will require lots of patience and a strong hand.

    I figure new supplies will be rare as hens teeth but if there is a sponsor/cser that has some I would love to know

    You will be surprised just how many parts and seals you can get from coffeeparts.com.au. I also got a few things from espressoparts.com but the shipping is tough. They are willing to reduce shipping from what comes up as default on their website though.
    I have bought from coffeeparts the gaskets between the boiler/GH, the group head/portafilter seals and spacers, the heating element/boiler gasket, the steam wand/tea water valve seals, the boiler/pump pressure stat and the steam tip. These parts are still quite standard.

    For other parts you will either need to make yourself (i had to machine new retaining rings for the flanges on both sides of the boiler), repair (i needed to remake the globes that glow when youre making a shot) or scavenge from old machines.

    From what Attilio says I might have a bit of work ahead of me

    Mine took about 4 months of waiting and fairly consistent work but it will be worth it. I have my boiler pressure set to 0.9-1 Bar and get constant 92C out of the group head. Perfect coffees each time but the steam wand takes some getting used to. Definitely recommend getting a smaller steam tip to replace the jet engine it comes with.

    Good luck and feel free to contact me if you need advice.....

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Javmad is a little lucky he has 2 hulks to pick over for the best bits from both ;)

    Lucky for me he has both I need the room back after this week to put the Izzo into storage for a while until the next job :(

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    And I have needed the other one too.

    Got a little carried away stripping it down and wrecked a brass fitting and snapped a copper line. :( :( :(

    Note to self...Never work on machine late at night.

    When I read through the threads on reducing photo file size I will posts some pics.


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    keen to see the photos.... if you end up with a spare group head assembly i would love to buy it off you mate.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    yeah no worries Iksander

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    My Garage didnt have any coffee stuff left in it so I am adding a new toy *::) Hello my name is BF and I have a problem .... ;D


  25. #25
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    e-vile bay..Was watching it too

    Had a limit of 1K but was out on a job... ;D

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Yep bay of evil again, some inovative plumbing needed when it makes it to the kitchen as I am renting in a town on bore water so tap water is not an option.

    I reckon there is room under the bonnet for a 10-12l custom Stainless storage tank and a small pump under the boiler (only need max of 2bar due to the levers) so I reckon standalone with just a drain line to the sink is possible. Then there is the PID and timer for the mornings and the insulation and .... :)

    Lucky I am back to 6 days trading as of next week, let the playing begin 8-)

  27. #27
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Here is a couple of pics of the strip. :)[img][/img]


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Another
    [img][/img]


  29. #29
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    one more
    [img][/img]




  30. #30
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Good job for a day like today :) Surprising how many bits of plumbing and pipe there is. Now I am into winter hours I am looking forward to getting stuck into my new toy when it gets here. No slacking off for me this time round like with the last ones ::)

    Was there much loose scale in the boiler or just the scale shown in the pic?

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    There was a little bit
    [img][/img]


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    So do those 2 small cylinders sit behind the group heads? Funny mine doesnt. Is that some funky thermosiphon deal?

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Theyre part of the HX system.
    [img][/img]


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    The Z9s had two fairly different boiler configurations one like above and one like this one. So how long before first brew ? :)


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    The rate Im going Christmas will be good. That picture isnt part of the rebuild, thats part of the strip. Im still stuck on descaling the boiler. :(
    Hopefully rebuild starts soon. ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Quote Originally Posted by 627463716C676863060 link=1219929823/34#34 date=1271052244
    Im still stuck on descaling the boiler.
    What are you using to descale it? I used Cafetto Vanish which worked a treat.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    I used Activated Descaler which removed a bit of if but not to the level I was hoping(back to copper inside). >:( It did not dint the white/green stuff you can see on the pic above. So I decided to try citric acid in a bucket with the boiler on its end to see how that worked, which it did quite well. :) Now I have the boiler in an ab bin with citric acid to try and do the lot but it is taking oh so long. :-/

  38. #38
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    jaymad, It took me a few days of soaking to get all the crud off.

    Citric acid seems to do pretty well, I bought the vanish because I couldnt source citric acid anywhere locally in big enough quantities. It was pretty cheap and I was ordering from coffeeparts anyway.

    Ive been following your project. Its great to see what others are doing with their rebuilds. Your frame doesnt look too bad. I had a bit of rust to clean off, and its getting powder coated this week.

    Keep up the good work.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Thanks Lacehim. The frame is in good nic. There was a little rust around the bottom of the frame where the steel nuts connect the feet. Ive changed those nuts and some others to SS to prevent it from happening again. Gave her a lite sand and a lick of paint. Wont look as cool as yours but Im happy with it. :)
    [img][/img]


  40. #40
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Looks better than when I saw it last ;)

    No powder coating for me when I do mine as soon as it gets chipped and water gets under it the rusts takes over. Killrust single pack epoxy works really well especially round the coast.

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Can anyone help me please.

    Im not sure which way those two little bits go into the steam valve.

    Also when I was stripping down the machine I remember those bits were opposite in the manual fill valve.

    [img][/img]
    [img][/img]


    What is there purpose?


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    This was meant to be there
    [img][/img]


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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    hey mate i never took that apart but i would say that the ball bearing side should be facing in towards the machine. is there a round seat that it fits in to make a seal?

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Yeah it does look like theres a little tapered sleeve, but thats the inlet side and it seals on the other side of that taper with the valve mechanism(if that makes sense). I was concerned the ball would block any steam trying to get through, unless it is to restrict the flow. Maybe just suck and see. I could try one steam arm that way and swap around for the other steam arm to see what happens.

  45. #45
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Not sure if this will help or not




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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Thats a bit different to what I have. I will try it both ways and see what happens.
    cheers

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Getting somewhere now. Pipe work is near enough to all hooked up. :) :) :)

    [img][/img]


    When I hooked up the hot water line I think the water pick-up in the boiler turned as I tightened the nut and is touching the element. Is this going to be an issue or will it be o.k?

    Next the electrics :D I will take my time with this. I will be painting the panels after I have the electrics sorted, there might be some holes cut or filled for switches.

    My plan is to put in a power switch and change the GH solenoid switch to a 3 way..On/Off/Pulse. (thanks BF for that idea) and either bypass the timers or take them out completely. Also bypass one of the three heating elements to reduce to 15amp machine.

    Im really enjoying this project.




  48. #48
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E786F7D606B646F0A0 link=1219929823/46#46 date=1271388811
    touching the element. Is this going to be an issue or will it be o.k?
    Bad ievil and asking for smoke to come out :o

    My new one turned up today and its more grubby than your orange one :P Photos and thread soon.

  49. #49
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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    okay....I dont want smoke.

    I shall pull it out and make sure.

    there will be a few cold ones for you checking it over tonight I would amagine.

    CHEERS

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    Re: Rancilio Z9 Rebuild lots of work needed

    looks awesome mate. interesting to see your last photo - its a very different configuration to mine, although they are both Z9. did yours have the murcury switch as well?



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