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Thread: Slayer 1 group

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    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    Slayer 1 group

    Cafelat Coffee Tamper and Accessories
    Just heard that Slayer are in the test phase with the single group Slayer! No pictures yet. They would probably fetch between 10-14 thousand id expect. I will post pictures once i get them.

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    I've seen some photos on instagram, but not of the finished machine, only of parts and manufacturing, oh and shots pulled. I'll post as they come in too pretty interesting. I spent fri night on a 3-group slayer, was fun, of course, I didn't sleep that night hahaha

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    an extraction shot
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Doppio Ristretto
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    I'd rather put the money towards another Ducati. I'm not sure the price premium over my ecm is capable of guaranteeing a better shot with me in front of the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    I'd rather put the money towards another Ducati. I'm not sure the price premium over my ecm is capable of guaranteeing a better shot with me in front of the machine.

    maybe get behind the machine then ;
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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    Joe, I have to say, being able to play with pre-infusion, compared to a standard 9-bar machine. Its next-level stuff. Seriously, quite incredible. Having said that, I'm satisfied with the coffee I'm getting from my Giotto!

    On Fri night (slayer), I'd go pre-infusion until I see coffee starting on the portafilter, then flick to 9-bar, then ease back off again gently toward the end. The extractions are incredible, as is the result in the cup.

    I'm just not that rich.

    Also, a 3-group Slayer needs around 50AMP (from memory). what would a 1group need?

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    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    I heard on the grapevine there was going to be one on display from the WEGA boys at MICE this year. We will have to wait and see!

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    Site Sponsor Talk_Coffee's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be rushing to spend $10k+ on a 1 group...

    Bide your time guys..... *zipped*

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    Woah! This is truly ground breaking, just imagine being able to do pressure profiling at home! I mean i guess i can do that with my $1500 lever machine, but i would look so cool to all the coffee hipsters if i could do it with a paddle instead for only an extra 10k!

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    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    Maybe you could grow a beard and wear a beret while pulling shots on your lever? The 1 group Slayer is being developed as a tool for Roasters and blenders. You would be MAD to buy one for home use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wynton87 View Post
    Woah! This is truly ground breaking, just imagine being able to do pressure profiling at home! I mean i guess i can do that with my $1500 lever machine, but i would look so cool to all the coffee hipsters if i could do it with a paddle instead for only an extra 10k!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I wouldn't be rushing to spend $10k+ on a 1 group...

    Bide your time guys..... *zipped*
    Are you dangling a mystery carrot there Chris?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I wouldn't be rushing to spend $10k+ on a 1 group
    You would get the machine and maybe a Robur to match for that much money.
    Make no mistake, the Slayer will be expensive but won't be "that" far off the GS3 pricing.

    Jason showed me pics in Boston and rumour says it won't be too long before we see a couple of the early ones in Oz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    You would get the machine and maybe a Robur to match for that much money.
    Make no mistake, the Slayer will be expensive but won't be "that" far off the GS3 pricing...
    That sounds a little more realistic Andy...

    Quote Originally Posted by resonatorman View Post
    Are you dangling a mystery carrot there Chris?
    "Ehh...What's up doc?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wynton87 View Post
    Woah! This is truly ground breaking, just imagine being able to do pressure profiling at home! I mean i guess i can do that with my $1500 lever machine, but i would look so cool to all the coffee hipsters if i could do it with a paddle instead for only an extra 10k!
    Who says lever's aren't cool?

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    Confirmed! The Slayer 1 group will be unveiled at MICE at the end of the month.

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    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    (They hope)... They're still building it haha.. It should be fun to check out.

    Very interesting if the price point is what Andy is saying...

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    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    They have already built a couple! tested them and one is definitely on the way to CWE here in Sydney!


    [QUOTE=JamesM;499789](They hope)... They're still building it haha..

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    Sad, no one got my sarcasm?

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    Who's booth will they be at? Slayer don't have their own according to MICE website.

    Wonder if they will have unlimited steam like the 2 and 3 groups haha. Probably not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wynton87 View Post
    Sad, no one got my sarcasm?
    Don't worry... the sarcasm was pretty clear!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wynton87 View Post
    Sad, no one got my sarcasm?

    We are all just a little slow back on our feet after having been bludgeoned with it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autti View Post
    Who's booth will they be at? Slayer don't have their own according to MICE website.
    They will be pretty easy to find.

    Look for Jason and the trail of drool leading up to the prototype single group Slayer(s)

  24. #24
    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    The Slayer will be at the CWE stand! Stand 32.

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    TOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Barista View Post
    ..The 1 group Slayer is being developed as a tool for Roasters and blenders...
    A very interesting comment.

    The current line is to make all things coffee, all about the equipment rather than the coffee itself. The quote takes that one step further in the same direction.

    Unless all clients have the same equipment as their roaster / blender suppliers, and are prepared to go along wth the roaster's advice about how to set up their individual equipment to get the "best" out of their coffee offerings, what is the reason for a roaster / blender supplier to have that equipment?

    Will the roaster blenders send out a daily bulletin to all their clients, advising them how to change the equipment parameters to continue to get the best out of that ever quickly changing variable known as "fresh roast coffee"?

    Will the clients themselves use such equipment in the way the designers and manufacturers intended, which would be to forever experiment with the fresh beans to find the best fit for the beans at any particular time?

    Do roaster blender suppliers and their cafe clients have the time and the type of staff who care enough to do this? (We know this as "work ethic").

    And if this is the line being presented by cafes to their own clients in turn (those that buy that special elusive nirvana in a cup), are cafes that leave the equipment set as at initial original delivery, guilty of misleading the market?

    Have the marketers now gone too far in their push of the idea that its all about the equipment now rather than the coffee? Because if this equipment is for roasters and blenders to get the very best out of their offerings, does that mean that the professional skill of a roaster and blender has been reduced to nothing more than throwing a bucket of single original greens into a roasting machine and waiting for it to tumble out the other end some time later.....because all the magic is now taken care of with the espresso machine and its operators?

    So quick, to devalue and take from the profession of coffee roasting and like robin hood, redistribute any cudos for a nice cup of coffee, to having such equipment, as operated by baristas who have more skill than their suppliers.

    Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?

    For the rest of it. Another 1 group coffee machine, with price tag I am sure that will be commensurate with its larger stable mates. Those who are prepared to pay the price should be looking to get full value from their investment.
    Last edited by TOK; 8th May 2013 at 12:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    A very interesting comment.

    The current line is to make all things coffee, all about the equipment rather than the coffee itself. The quote takes that one step further in the same direction.

    Unless all clients have the same equipment as their roaster / blender suppliers, and are prepared to go along wth the roaster's advice about how to set up their individual equipment to get the "best" out of their coffee offerings, what is the reason for a roaster / blender supplier to have that equipment?

    Will the roaster blenders send out a daily bulletin to all their clients, advising them how to change the equipment parameters to continue to get the best out of that ever quickly changing variable known as "fresh roast coffee"?

    Will the clients themselves use such equipment in the way the designers and manufacturers intended, which would be to forever experiment with the fresh beans to find the best fit for the beans at any particular time?

    Do roaster blender suppliers and their cafe clients have the time and the type of staff who care enough to do this? (We know this as "work ethic").

    And if this is the line being presented by cafes to their own clients in turn (those that buy that special elusive nirvana in a cup), are cafes that leave the equipment set as at initial original delivery, guilty of misleading the market?

    Have the marketers now gone too far in their push of the idea that its all about the equipment now rather than the coffee? Because if this equipment is for roasters and blenders to get the very best out of their offerings, does that mean that the professional skill of a roaster and blender has been reduced to nothing more than throwing a bucket of single original greens into a roasting machine and waiting for it to tumble out the other end some time later.....because all the magic is now taken care of with the espresso machine and its operators?

    So quick, to devalue and take from the profession of coffee roasting and like robin hood, redistribute any cudos for a nice cup of coffee, to having such equipment, as operated by baristas who have more skill than their suppliers.

    Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?

    For the rest of it. Another 1 group coffee machine, with price tag I am sure that will be commensurate with its larger stable mates. Those who are prepared to pay the price should be looking to get full value from their investment.
    How does a machine like a slayer make it easier for roasters or diminish the craft? It provides a moving target rather then a fixed one. It's going to require more tasting not less as there are now more variables in the mix. It's going to take a roaster with with a very specific vision of how they want the coffee to taste to get the best out of it. For a very long time roasters had known that when roasting for espresso the beverage would be brewed at 9 bars at a temperature of around 92-93 deg c, The controls available to baristas were fairly easy to specify, ie we recommend a dose of x for a yeild of x in x seconds. It's harder now.

    From a roasters perspective espresso roasting may be seen as the art of compromise (balance) your trying to bring out desirable traits while diminishing the presence of undesirable traits. If your trying to bring out origin character you'll be trying to trade acidity for sweetness while preserving origin character. If your beans are sub par you might be trying to hide bean defects without taking the roast too dark. If brewing in a certain way can mean the roaster doesn't have to compromise as much that's probably a good thing.

    I imagine a single group slayer is probably more for companies that roast and brew their espresso in attached cafes. If coffee roasted specifically for Slayer and the customer is using a Linea, they likely wont be producing the very best espresso that the raw beans would have been capable of if the roaster had been testing and tasting on flat 9bar profiled machine. But if you roast for your own cafe's and they all have the equipment, and you have time to discuss brewing with the baristas it makes perfect sense to be tasting coffee on equipment that replicates whats in the shop.

    The main problem with machines like Slayer is the lack or literature out there on what actually happens to coffee and extraction when subjected to very long pre-brew, pre-brew at 2 bar rather then 4 bar, a flat 9 bar profile or one that declines linearly, or one that is flat but declines at the end. The internet is full of contradictory information that attributes different effects to different parts of the profile and comes up with different results.

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?
    It sounds like you've gone off the deep end.

    Not sure why you posted that at all. But either way.

    Simplest explanation:
    Roasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.

    The rest of post is more or less dribble. People like nice things. People like working on nice things. So people buy nice things.
    Gustopher likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Autti View Post
    Roasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.
    Yes- agreed. If the only way they can make their coffee taste any good is fiddle with Slayer, I'd argue that the mark has been missed by a fair margin and the result will be a product of interest to only to a small niche- Slayer owners who are brainwashed to think that the only way to make great coffee is to buy a Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    Does this sound like reality, and is it where we are going?
    Sadly it is. I hear of this exact spin out of the USA.
    Last edited by Talk_Coffee; 8th May 2013 at 03:59 PM.
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    TOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autti View Post
    It sounds like you've gone off the deep end.

    Not sure why you posted that at all. But either way.

    Simplest explanation:
    Roasters or people who only have use for 1 group want a good machine that is really nice to use to make coffee on.

    The rest of post is more or less dribble. People like nice things. People like working on nice things. So people buy nice things.

    Personal insults and driVEL ("dribble"???). Missed the point of the commentary which was in the main an open ended discussion on part of a previous post that says the machine is apparently targeted at roasters and blenders...not whether people like nice things or not.


    Good post from muppet man, who took the discussion seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    Personal insults and driVEL ("dribble"???). Missed the point of the commentary which was in the main an open ended discussion on part of a previous post that says the machine is apparently targeted at roasters and blenders...not whether people like nice things or not.


    Good post from muppet man, who took the discussion seriously.
    If you phrase a statement as a question, is that commentary?

  31. #31
    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    specs: http://padrecoffee.com.au/slayer1grp.pdf

    10 AMPS for 220V countries. Wow... surprising.

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    I have no idea if it'll be as good or better than a GS/3 or Speedster, but it certainly looks fantastic.

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    what is surprising is the first i heard of using a pressure transducer for the steam boiler. ( but i am sure there are other machines which use pressure transducers?) which means depending on the electronics used the steam boiler can act almost instantaneously to pressure changes as compared to temperature which is a secondary effect of the pressure drop. The same principle applies in refrigeration where we do use transducers and can maintain much more stable pressure via a pressure transducer rather than measuring temperature.

    If the slayer is setup for 220vac it will have more "juice" at 240VAC, as long as the components can take it should be an advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
    specs: http://padrecoffee.com.au/slayer1grp.pdf

    10 AMPS for 220V countries. Wow... surprising.
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    Wow, they have changed a lot in this design from the slayer 2.0

    Previously it was all flow rate control, this design with the variable pump now gives full pressure control as well during pre-brew and brew. Very interesting.

    Hopefully it doesn't whine like the stradas.

    Not so keen on a touch screen, havn't seen a photo of it yet though, i like the full manual aspect of a slayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettreaby View Post
    what is surprising is the first i heard of using a pressure transducer for the steam boiler. ( but i am sure there are other machines which use pressure transducers?) .
    ?? Err,? isnt the common "pressure stat" as used on most serious espresso machine's ,..a type of pressure transducer ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    ?? Err,? isnt the common "pressure stat" as used on most serious espresso machine's ,..a type of pressure transducer ?
    No? If it was considered one it would provide 1-bit of information, signifying below or above some value and not even accurate in doing that.
    A pressure transducer provides an analog signal (0-5v,0-24v,4-20ma etc) that can be converted to 8/10/12/24 bit digital, as an example 10-bit conversion of a 3bar range transducer would provide 0.003bar resolution.

  37. #37
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    As stated the pressure transducer gives a linear output. A pressure stat provides an on/off signal: like a thermostat which has a band (hysteresis). So with a "stat" you always get a range- But with a transducer and PID type control you can maintain a very tight band.

    Also stats being more mechanical in nature settings can drift over time. Transducers tend to use a resistive network printed onto a diaphragm so movements are very minimal and repeatable. ( there are also other types).


    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    ?? Err,? isnt the common "pressure stat" as used on most serious espresso machine's ,..a type of pressure transducer ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytheboot View Post
    No? If it was considered one it would provide 1-bit of information, signifying below or above some value and not even accurate in doing that.
    A pressure transducer provides an analog signal (0-5v,0-24v,4-20ma etc) that can be converted to 8/10/12/24 bit digital, as an example 10-bit conversion of a 3bar range transducer would provide 0.003bar resolution.
    OK, thanks for the clarification.
    Is there some advantage in using a pressure transducer rather than a temperature transducer (thermocouple ?) and PID control ?

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    Not a Shoe Jimmytheboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    OK, thanks for the clarification.
    Is there some advantage in using a pressure transducer rather than a temperature transducer (thermocouple ?) and PID control ?
    Faster response time than RTDs, and they are easier to interface with microcontrollers.

  40. #40
    Senior Member timmyc's Avatar
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    Wowsers, I had a play with one of these and made a few coffees at MICE. Amazing to use, fit & finish is beautiful. Suggested cost around $10k however it was not definitive. Obviously customisation with some beautiful hardwood panels will increase cost :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyc View Post
    Wowsers, I had a play with one of these and made a few coffees at MICE. Amazing to use, fit & finish is beautiful. Suggested cost around $10k however it was not definitive. Obviously customisation with some beautiful hardwood panels will increase cost :P
    Hello all, not sure if this is my first post as have been lurking for years! I had a play with the Slayer at MICE, it does look like a great machine. Unfortunately I can't agree with the fit and finish being beautiful as I thought it was pretty atrocious - horrible scorched welds on the top warming tray, front panels with sizeable gaps to the body, poorly finished paddle.. perhaps prototype manufacturing but certainly not precision work worthy of a mega price tag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytheboot View Post
    No? If it was considered one it would provide 1-bit of information, signifying below or above some value and not even accurate in doing that.
    A pressure transducer provides an analog signal (0-5v,0-24v,4-20ma etc) that can be converted to 8/10/12/24 bit digital, as an example 10-bit conversion of a 3bar range transducer would provide 0.003bar resolution.
    Technically anything that converts from one type of energy to another is a transducer... </pedant>

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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTok View Post
    Unfortunately I can't agree with the fit and finish being beautiful as I thought it was pretty atrocious - horrible scorched welds on the top warming tray, front panels with sizeable gaps to the body, poorly finished paddle.. perhaps prototype manufacturing but certainly not precision work worthy of a mega price tag.
    Eh, it's a prototype, it's pretty typical for them to be a bit "rough around the edges", I'm sure the production units will be finished to the same standard as their two and three group units.

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    ...it's a prototype, it's pretty typical for them to be a bit "rough around the edges",
    Sure, but Ticktok was responding to the previous post...
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyc View Post
    ... I had a play with one of these and made a few coffees at MICE. Amazing to use, fit & finish is beautiful.:P
    Just shows how people's standards can be very different !
    Seems odd to put a machine "on show" that apparently has cosmetic defects ?

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    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    I had the pleasure of talking briefly to Jason @ MICE without even realising who he was, then walking away thinking, "Gee... that guy sure looks familiar!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    Sure, but Ticktok was responding to the previous post...
    Indeed. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    Seems odd to put a machine "on show" that apparently has cosmetic defects ?
    You would think so. If it were a company who had never produced a coffee machine and it was a true 'protoype' then perhaps explainable but for a manufacturer of high end equipment in this field already it seems a bit unusual.

    There were two machines with two companies there. I only saw the one near the front of the hall (red). Perhaps the other poster saw another machine (there was a blue one at the back but I did not look closely at this one).

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    I should have taken a few more pictures but only bothered with this iphone pic. Not easy to see but the weld I mentioned is clearly noticeable where the handle to joins the drip tray (behind the hot water wand). I also thought it was odd how the front metal plate went around the exit point for the steam and water wands, it left big nasty gaps to the inside of the machine. Screw heads exposed in the front cover? Drip tray ends folded over with rough edges? The folded piece of metal at the back of the drip tray looks like an afterthought and does not meet flush with the from panel of the machine all the way along? The electric display behind the cup warmer was nice but no good if you actually have cups warming?

    Still, nice machine of course but not what I would expect for the rumored price tag.

    I have not used their other machines so perhaps my expectations as a rank amateur were unrealistic.



  48. #48
    Senior Member timmyc's Avatar
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    I was playing with the blue panelled one. Having said that, I could have been slightly blindsided by all the pretty machines and the 30 coffees I had drunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTok View Post
    There were two machines with two companies there. I only saw the one near the front of the hall (red). Perhaps the other poster saw another machine (there was a blue one at the back but I did not look closely at this one).
    There were at least 2 red ones there, I think I saw 4 different 1 group Slayers on different stands on Wednesday night when we were trying to get our stand/s finished (was a busy boy, had to set up our stand, had to set up a Wega Greenline for the stand of one of our customers, and had to set up a dozen machines for display for a manufacturer who we are a local distributor for).

  50. #50
    Site Sponsor Talk_Coffee's Avatar
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    We have today received approval to add this machine to our range...

    Now to wait 'til we can actually buy a demo!

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