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Thread: New ECM Technika IV profi experience

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    New ECM Technika IV profi experience

    Well, I thought it was about time that I contributed back to the pool of knowledge here on CS with my coffee machine experience.

    So, thanks very much to the guys at Jetblack Espresso, especially Charlie, about a month ago we acquired a new ECM T IV Profi, with a pretty good deal IMO. We got version with Rotary pump and the switchable tank/mains option.

    The reason I went for this machine over the other machines that Jetblack had was because of it's switchable plumbing option. More on that later.

    This is my first ever espresso machine (aside from 3 weeks of borrowing my neighbours Silvia back in July), and I'm quite new to making espresso, so I can't really compare it to anything else for you. As a new user, I've enjoyed learning how to use it a lot, and it hasn't had any surprising quirks for me to deal with. I've got up my skills very quickly - helpful to have some of your closest friends as coffee professionals!

    Here it is next to my grinder*
    IMG_1776.jpg

    As far as it's aesthetics are concerned, it's fine. Looks like an E61 machine, it's all subjective really, but the solid aluminium sides bottom to top really do help it to look good in any kitchen. I personally liked the look of it out of most of the available e61 machines out there, but that's just me. Also the portafilter handles are probably the best looking handles on the market in this price range.

    Cleaning it (externally) was a concern my wife had, but aside from cleaning behind the group itself, it's really quite easy to clean. Just use lots of water, no need for chemicals, and dry it off thoroughly, and you won't see any water stains. Obviously, it's easier to clean when cold. Cleaning it internally (backflushing) is also just as simple as any other machine.

    As far as usability goes... when I was weighing up what machine I would pick for us, it was between this machine and a Profitec 500, so I'll do a bit of reflecting on how it is one month on having made the choice we did.

    I'll start with least important and make my way through.

    The manual is fantastic, quite detailed, and actually worth reading. Also available to download on the net, so you can have a read before purchasing if you want to.

    The pressure valves are good, I like their placement. To be honest, I don't look at them often - mostly only when backflushing, and if doing many back to back coffees, the boiler pressure valve is handy feedback to know if I'm running out of steam. I'm thankful that they're on the top of the machine for the way I use it, but I never look at them when pulling a shot (except when I've accidentally run out of water!)

    One thing that sets this machine apart aesthetically (along with a few other machines like the Berezza etc.) is it's levers. I say aesthetically as, for the most part, that's what you gain by buying them. From a user's point of view, one might have a preference for levers over rotary valves, but the levers don't necessarily function any better. I like that I can just push the lever down and it's on, but a few things I've noticed:

    1. The same 'single movement action' to turn a Profitec no-crush valve to on is just as easy
    2. When I was trying the Profitec valves at Jetblack, there was a nice fluid rotation of the valves - the levers do not have this fluid motion. It is a metal on metal action that inevitably provides some resistance, and some feedback to the hand. I'm entirely used to it, it's not bad, but it's different. When I first researched these machines before I touched one, I thought it might be smooth, but it's not.
    3. The levers can sometimes spring back just out of position. Same goes with valves to some extent, and this happens so rarely, but sometimes I might be cleaning up and hear the steam want making a little noise, so I'll go put the lever back into position.

    Much for muchness - I'm glad we have levers (nicer for my wife to use) but I would probably go the no-crush valves in the future. Charlie explained to me that there'd be a bit more work of upkeep with the levers, keeping them lubricated etc. It's no worries to me. Perfectly happy with levers, no regrets, just have more experience with them now for comparison.

    The hinged lid at the back of the machine for filling the reservoir is both awesome and not at once.
    It's awesome, because it means that in my (very) small kitchen, I don't need to have any spare bench space to put the cup holder tray down anywhere in order to fill my reservoir. On the other hand, depending how I've stacked the machine, I still do need to move some cups and saucers around in order to get that lid open.
    However, the reservoir itself is quite large, and so that's not a big deal.
    The hinged lid doesn't always like to hold itself up - ECM could've done a bit more testing on that I reckon, bringing the hinge forward 1mm would have made all the difference, but mostly it does stay open when I want it to if I lift it without any violence.

    The drip tray is large, which is fantastic for me. The way you manoeuvre it off the machine is simple, and if you've not noticed it getting full, you can get away with pulling it out and getting to the sink without spillage. But emptying it every day or two mitigates that issue anyway. It's easy to rinse out, but be careful with the underside of the grill - I cut my thumb on it when it slipped in my hand. Also, expect to get scuffs on your drip tray - that's just how it goes.

    The portafilters are really nicely balanced weight wise, and the look of them is fantastic. I particularly like the spouts being open, rather than closed. Helps me see right when the first drops of crema are making their way out. My double basket prefers somewhere around 18.5g, despite the manual saying 14g. I don't use the single spout portafiler, I just leave the blind basket in there for quick backflushing. Single basket is in the drawer :P
    The baskets are quite good, I haven't felt any need to swap them for VST or anything else. I might possibly look at a ridge-less basket at some point, as I do find that grinds get stuck in the ridge when filled/tamped, and sometimes if accidentally underdosed, when knocking the puck out.

    The rotary pump in this machine makes me very happy. It's so quiet and doesn't send vibrations through the machine. I get that vibration pumps don't have to send vibrations through the machine, but it would need to be well isolated (as I'm sure it is on good machines). The pump on this one doesn't rattle any of my cups, and so it's just such a pleasure to pull a shot. Along with the usual (and very true!) grinder is louder yada yada - I'd still get a rotary pump any day.

    The steam/water wands are no-burn (Don't think they're advertised as such, but they haven't burned me after use!) but still come with rubber sleeves, which I use most of the time. The benefit of the no-burn even when using rubber sleeves is that it is so darn easy to wipe off milk. It comes with a two hole steam tip. Took me quite a while to get used to, but now I'm getting microfoam I'm happy with. Steams the milk before I finish pulling my shot (when using a 400ml jug filled halfway). Again, a simple push up of the lever to turn off the steam. Actually, turning off steam with levers is probably it's strong point as you can do it with almost available body part. The manual suggests having the steam wand in the middle of your milk pitcher - I've found that to be true. The two hole steam tip does all the work if the wand is upright. Sometimes I might move toward the edge of the jug to make a whirlpool if steaming in larger than a 400ml pitcher.

    I haven't paired my machine with a very good grinder yet, so I don't know how good it's really able to get - but the shots I've had out of it have been fantastic. It's quite a forgiving machine I've found. It is able to maintain excellent temperature through the HX, and I have no regrets about buying an HX machine. I first thought maybe I'd like the changeability of a PID on a dual boiler.. but nup. This machine has been fantastic - and I now don't think I would ever make adjustments to a PID.

    Last weekend I took the machine to my church's weekend away. I pumped out about 50 coffees on it across about 2.5 hours of service (5 periods of 30 minutes), and it held up really well. I had enough long blacks being requested between milk coffees that I didn't have any time where the steam boiler was struggling. Having a hot urn right next to me helped with filling those long blacks though - if I'd been filling them from the boiler I'd have had much more trouble.

    I've not had the chance to plumb this machine in. I bought it with the anticipation of doing so - which I will do in the next apartment that we move into next year (Already got it lined up - the laundry is off the kitchen which is perfect for attaching a water filter solution and having the coffee machine on it's own bench). So I can give an update on my experience then!

    Happy to answer any questions, but in summary I'm very happy with this purchase. I would purchase again in a heartbeat, but would probably get the version that doesn't have levers as my personal preference.

    *Clearly I'm kidding. For those who don't know, this is our "German death machine" the Thermomix that would ruin any coffee if came in contact with. This is my wife's comparative expensive appliance that makes me feel ok about buying an expensive coffee machine! Unfortunately I don't own a $2000 grinder - it's a 6 year old Sunbeam instead. Can't wait to upgrade, but need to get the wife's approval first.
    Last edited by readeral; 14th October 2015 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Grinder details

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Lookin' good there, "readeral"...

    What I've found to be the easiest and most effective method for keeping the gleam sparkling clean, is to use two decent quality microfibre cloths. One damp and the other dry. Wipe down with the damp one first to remove any stains, etc and then immediately polish off with the dry one. Easy as can be and maintains that mirror finish...

    Been doing it this way for many years with all of my gear and it still looks like it just came out of the shop...

    Mal.
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Hot tip! Thanks Mal. I'll get me some microfibre at some point, in the meantime wet cloth dry towel does good, albeit less effectively that microfibre would. (Incidentally, coffee machine moved from that spot for obvious reasons)
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    I just collected the same machine yesterday for the offce. It's great. We use it with a Mahlkoenig Vario grinder. Now I can take my Expobar Office Leva home.
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    Great review readeral! I'm sure it will be very useful for anyone considering an ECM and/or Profitec,

    charlie

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post

    This is my first ever espresso machine... and I'm quite new to making espresso
    Nice machine. 134 posts in a few months. Nearly 2000-word machine review. Fair to say youre a watch, plan, and then jump in with both feet kinda guy?

    Very snob like! - "we don't do things by halves round here"

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    And this is the joy she delivers me every day:
    IMG_1965.jpg

    I have to say, Acme and Co. cups are the bomb! I bought some 160ml 'flat white' cups here in Sydney from Coffee Parts (very graciously split a pack for me so I didn't need to buy 6 and could vary my colours to two mint and two blue), and @Talk_Coffee offers them down in Vic too (or anywhere for postage I guess). I don't hesitate to recommend them highly. Love that the handles are not useless, they clean up so nicely and they retain warmth well. Can't provide comment on the demitasse or cappuccino sizes.

    @WantRancilio10 Yeah that's right, and then some. I usually don't stop researching once I've jumped in. Always things you've missed, always things to learn I've been lurking around CS longer than my membership, so I'm not as fresh as I might seem. Spending much too much time with Andy from Villino and Dave from YB made it inevitable that I'd splurge out all my pent up coffee geekiness elsewhere (read: on CS) once moved to Sydney. My 6 year old grinder was purchased as a promise to myself that I'd get an espresso machine one day - so this has been a Long Time Coming. I'm a measure three times cut once kind of bloke, rarely make final decisions I regret.

    Paired with a new KKTO I'm in deep, that's for sure. Also I just went back to Uni after 7 years out this year. Speaks for itself really :P
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    Nice one! I'm looking to upgrade to a ECM elektronika profi ii through someone at work.. Just need to offload my Breville!
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    *Clearly I'm kidding. For those who don't know, this is our "German death machine" the Thermomix that would ruin any coffee if came in contact with. This is my wife's comparative expensive appliance that makes me feel ok about buying an expensive coffee machine! Unfortunately I don't own a $2000 grinder - it's a 6 year old Sunbeam instead. Can't wait to upgrade, but need to get the wife's approval first.
    My friend's mum is a card-carrying member of the Thermomix cult; when I visited she enthusiastically told me that it can also "grind up coffee beans". Maybe you don't need a grinder after all!

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    The only reason why coffee beans might end up in my Thermomix is because I mistook them for something else Thankfully I have a deposit down on a grinder at Jetblack waiting for me to get back to Sydney, so no more Sunbeam in a matter of weeks!
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    I have a thermomix and a coffee machine. Safe to say they work on different ends of the kitchen bench. I don't want them getting near each other and having ideas !!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty888 View Post
    I have a thermomix and a coffee machine. Safe to say they work on different ends of the kitchen bench. I don't want them getting near each other and having ideas !!!!
    Here here for the Thermo and ECM combo! My ECM / Quamar are making their way off the bench as we speak a dedicated coffee station beside the kitchen. My wife loves her thermo (as do I), but the ECM is the king in my house...
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    Quote Originally Posted by snedden9485 View Post
    Here here for the Thermo and ECM combo! My ECM / Quamar are making their way off the bench as we speak a dedicated coffee station beside the kitchen. My wife loves her thermo (as do I), but the ECM is the king in my house...

    Neither is the king of the house. You haven't met my partner. I ask nicely if the coffe machine is allowed on the bench.
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    Nice set up definatley one of the best looking machines ever
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    A very nice and helpful review. I am considering this machine as well. After more than 6 months of use, do you encounter any problem? Thanks.

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopiku View Post
    A very nice and helpful review. I am considering this machine as well. After more than 6 months of use, do you encounter any problem? Thanks.
    This machine performs very well, is hardy and quiet, and consistently brews me good coffee. Along with my Profitec T64 grinder (see my other review) I've got high quality coffee at home. The weak link in my equipment chain is my tamper (which I'm about to change)!

    I honestly love this machine. I spoke to JetBlack who put in a slightly different sized thermosyphon restrictor according to the way I use it, but that's not a gripe, it's a tweak. As much as I intended to plumb the machine in, I haven't yet in the way we've laid out our kitchen. This is one regret - not that I got a plumbable machine, but that I haven't been able to plumb it!

    One other thing, that is very easily sorted, is that depending how you stack your cups on top of the machine will determine whether you get a little rattle from the water tank flap. Could be very easily dealt with, but I haven't bothered, because for the most part, I stack my cups well.

    Cheers.
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    Thanks very much! This is really helpful for me. I am eyeing a Mechanika IV (with the rotary pump too), which I believe has no difference from Technika IV (except for its look).

    Cheers

    A-senk

    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    This machine performs very well, is hardy and quiet, and consistently brews me good coffee. Along with my Profitec T64 grinder (see my other review) I've got high quality coffee at home. The weak link in my equipment chain is my tamper (which I'm about to change)!

    I honestly love this machine. I spoke to JetBlack who put in a slightly different sized thermosyphon restrictor according to the way I use it, but that's not a gripe, it's a tweak. As much as I intended to plumb the machine in, I haven't yet in the way we've laid out our kitchen. This is one regret - not that I got a plumbable machine, but that I haven't been able to plumb it!

    One other thing, that is very easily sorted, is that depending how you stack your cups on top of the machine will determine whether you get a little rattle from the water tank flap. Could be very easily dealt with, but I haven't bothered, because for the most part, I stack my cups well.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    This machine performs very well, is hardy and quiet, and consistently brews me good coffee. Along with my Profitec T64 grinder (see my other review) I've got high quality coffee at home. The weak link in my equipment chain is my tamper (which I'm about to change)!

    I honestly love this machine. I spoke to JetBlack who put in a slightly different sized thermosyphon restrictor according to the way I use it, but that's not a gripe, it's a tweak. As much as I intended to plumb the machine in, I haven't yet in the way we've laid out our kitchen. This is one regret - not that I got a plumbable machine, but that I haven't been able to plumb it!

    One other thing, that is very easily sorted, is that depending how you stack your cups on top of the machine will determine whether you get a little rattle from the water tank flap. Could be very easily dealt with, but I haven't bothered, because for the most part, I stack my cups well.

    Cheers.
    Agreed, great machine. I have had my Technika IV Profi for nearly 2 years with the Mazzer Mini E bought from DiBartoli. We make a minimum of 4 milk coffees and probabaly a couple of espressos on top of that per day - machine hasn't missed a beat . I love my Mini E too. But I also roast my own and I think that is the big key.

    I reccomended a mate of mine to Jetblack recently (closer for him and he is not a CS member yet) and he ended up with a Profitec 500 and the Profitec T64. I gave him a hand to dial it all in and it is a nice set-up, but it didn't make me jealous

    Hey readeral, what was the different size thermosyphon restrictor for?
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  19. #19
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caps View Post
    Hey readeral, what was the different size thermosyphon restrictor for?
    I have my boiler pressure sitting around 1.4/1.5 - and so was experiencing some high temperatures from the group if it'd been sitting for a long period. Rather than turn the pressurestat down (which would be the normal thing to do), JetBlack popped in a restrictor, which they've been putting into all the profitecs, to slow the water as it cycled around the machine and so keep my grouphead at the stable temp that I wanted. It worked like a dream, and I still have good boiler pressure :P

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    Hi all,

    After reading tons of reviews and watching a lot of videos, I finally decided to go ahead with ECM Mechanika IV Profi with Rotary Pump. I decided to pair it up with Super Jolly.

    I just collected the equipment today from Paul of K Bean. I tested them at home, and after several attempts, managed to produce an excellent latte. The grinder needs to be slightly adjusted, as it seems too fine.

    A couple of preliminary comments on the Mechanika IV Profi. It's basically the same Technika IV Profi. The only difference is the exterior. Internally, they are exactly the same.

    It looks very nice and easy to use. The portafilter is amazing, as it has an excellent grip. The steam power is very good to steam milk. It doesn't take long to understand how the steam works. In my second attempt, I already managed to produce a good quality milk texture. Need to practice more, I am sure.

    The wand is cool to touch. The machine is very quite. All in all, it's a significant improvement from my previous Silvia.

    Thanks for all snobbers who helped me decide the most appropriate equipment for me. I also thank Chris of Talk Coffee who gave me a good lecture on HX machine. I would love to taste your roasted beans.

    I bought the machine and grinder from Paul of K Bean. Paul is simply an amazing person. He is very responsive, patient and accommodating. He is definitely an espresso lover. I tasted his typical espresso a bit, and I was surprised as it's so strong.

    Love doing business with K Bean. Price is very competitive, and the service is excellent.

    Lastly, here is a pic of my new set up. The hopper of Super Jolly is too high. If any owner of Mini Mazzer wants to have a tall hopper, let me know. I'll gladly swap my hopper with Mini hopper.

    Cheers

    Sandi
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    They don't explain the pre-infusion that occurs with the E61 group. In fact they erroneously describe the pre-infusion chamber as merely part of the exhaust valve mechanism. This is a major oversight, since the mechanical pre-infusion is a key part of the E61 design
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    Crazy, if one cares to watch the brew pressure gauge on most e61s it is pretty obvious that there is a low pressure pre-infusion stage. I believe that stage is carefully timed so that the grinds don't go stale waiting too long to be extracted. This is the brilliance of the e61 - well at least in my Rockets!

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopiku View Post
    I finally decided to go ahead with ECM Mechanika IV Profi with Rotary Pump. I decided to pair it up with Super Jolly.
    Congrats Sandi, I hope you'll love this machine as much as I do mine! Glad you went for the Mechanica as well, If you're using the tank, it'll be much quicker to fill it (granted you have the bench space.)

    After nearly a year I have no regrets, still an excellent machine. The only bummer is how much the ECM naked portafilter costs relative to other generic nakeds.
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Would the brew group lever on this machine fit on any e61?. I like the look of it and wouldn't mind it on my machine. And if so where could I get one. I did a google search but cant seem to find out about it. Thanks
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    Thanks Readeral. Your review on the Technika helped me in deciding to go ahead with Mechanika.

    Cheers

    Sandi

    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Congrats Sandi, I hope you'll love this machine as much as I do mine! Glad you went for the Mechanica as well, If you're using the tank, it'll be much quicker to fill it (granted you have the bench space.)

    After nearly a year I have no regrets, still an excellent machine. The only bummer is how much the ECM naked portafilter costs relative to other generic nakeds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    Would the brew group lever on this machine fit on any e61?. I like the look of it and wouldn't mind it on my machine. And if so where could I get one. I did a google search but cant seem to find out about it. Thanks
    Will it fit? It is an M8 female thread. Where to get it? Try anyone who sells ECM machines, there are plenty of sponsors who do.
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  27. #27
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    Doesn't say boo

  28. #28
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I know a sponsor who sells ECM... K something ??
    Hi K Bean, been looking in NZ for said ECM Brew group lever, but to no avail, will it fit the E61 group?, if so I will have to get in touch.

  29. #29
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    We might have to come up with a new term for threads having been "k-beaned"...

    What's the thread on your machine's group handle Logga? Or just what machine is it?
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    We might have to come up with a new term for threads having been "k-beaned"...

    What's the thread on your machine's group handle Logga? Or just what machine is it?
    Its a Bezzera Mitica, just want to change the brew group lever. The ECM one looks a lot better.

  31. #31
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    It might be easier to go by exception. There are less non-"k-beaned" threads.
    We can start from now :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    Its a Bezzera Mitica, just want to change the brew group lever. The ECM one looks a lot better.
    as far as I know the factories if not the same are at least related, so you'd probably find it fits well. I'd email JetBlack espresso, they have both machines in stock and probably on bench, they can check for you and also might be willing to ship a part to NZ for you.
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    Does anyone know the function of the thing pointed out in the attached picture? I notice that water drips down from that thing. Is that normal? Thanks.

    Sandi

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    Forgot to attach the picture.
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Assuming it's the same as the identical part on the Synchronika - it's a valve outlet; over-pressure relief from the boiler I think, without checking the manual... Perfectly normal for it to emit water and steam
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    Thanks, Paul and Magic Matt.

    I just realized that my picture might not be very clear. I attach a hopefully clearer picture. Is the "thing" pointed out by the red arrow the valve outlet? And is it normal for it to emit water? To avoid any doubt, I was not concerned with the blue arrow.
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    Just buy what you want to buy man The Rocket has some good features, and also some of the extras (like bottomless portafilters etc.) don't cost as much as the ECM branded stuff - so there's trade offs.

    The ECM is great, and yeah it's quiet. If you're keen to have a very quiet machine, plumb it in, put a non-slip mat on top of the machine to protect the Stainless finish, and with a fully loaded cup warmer tray, that will stop the tank flap from rattling when the rotary pump kicks in.

    Look at the Profitec T64, or ECM S-Automatik 64, for a quick and quiet grinder.

    Cheers,

    Al
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  38. #38
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    If you drop your Minore in for a service and let your servicer know you'd like to isolate the vibration pump a little more, you might be able to get a significantly quieter machine for much less money than an upgrade. And if you like the dual boiler of the Minore, but still want to upgrade to a rotary, you can actually get a Minore rotary pump variant as well - Expobar Minore III - Rotary Pump

    Cheers.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    As a general rule I would say the bigger the grinder, the quieter. Anything from Macap m2m and up is quiet compared to a sunbeam. EM0480? I had one and it was a real rattler.
    Worth noting that a big grinder may well be nearly as loud or louder than a small one, but often the time to grind one cup is much shorter. 3.4s in the case of my f71ek

  40. #40
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The type of noise also plays a part in how noisy the grinder sounds. Some are more pleasant to my ear.

    Cheers

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    Pete,

    Would it be possible for you to replace the vibration pump in your Minore with the rotary pump? I think this may solve the noise problem.

    As to the ECM (mine is Mechanika IV Profi with Rotary Pump), I have to say that it works very very quiet. I also had the opportunity to see how Rocket Evo operated, and it was very quiet too. It is perhaps because of the rotary pump.

    Cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSzad View Post
    I am going up to the next level. I just got an Expobar Minore but the noisy pump is driving my wife mad. It wakes her up. Yep, need a quieter grinder as well but thats next.
    Choices are Technika Rotary or Rocket Evo. (evoluzione)
    I talked to a few sellers and they tell me Rocket keep prices artificially high by not selling to online dealers. That really Sux. What about fair trade, consumer protection, etc. SOunds dodgy to me but 2 guys told me the same story. The ECM looks better and from what I read and see on YouTube its also better for performance. $500 cheaper that the Rocket AND a better machine so that's where my cash will be going. The Profitec 500 also looks good but I prefer the ECM. enough ranting.
    Last edited by kopiku; 2nd May 2016 at 11:05 PM.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSzad View Post
    I am going up to the next level. I just got an Expobar Minore but the noisy pump is driving my wife mad. It wakes her up. Yep, need a quieter grinder as well but thats next.
    Choices are Technika Rotary or Rocket Evo. (evoluzione)
    I talked to a few sellers and they tell me Rocket keep prices artificially high by not selling to online dealers. That really Sux. What about fair trade, consumer protection, etc. SOunds dodgy to me but 2 guys told me the same story. The ECM looks better and from what I read and see on YouTube its also better for performance. $500 cheaper that the Rocket AND a better machine so that's where my cash will be going. The Profitec 500 also looks good but I prefer the ECM. enough ranting.
    Hi Pete,

    First thing is to work out or have someone work out why your Minore is so noisy. It shouldn't be

    With respect to your comments about Rocket Espresso, the online seller/s which provided your information are at best ill-informed or perhaps even bitter that they didn't get their dance card filled.

    To clarify the situation, some facts...

    Firstly, no company is compelled to sell to anyone. ECA are a highly respected Australian importer and have worked tirelessly- both publicly and behind the scenes to establish a dealer network to sell, support, service and repair Rocket Espresso equipment. We are one of the ECA appointed dealers and have been for nearly 15 years. Whilst we sell online, we also have a bricks and mortar presence to help provide that support. ECA is interested in having the right distribution network and when a guy wants to open next door to sell the same product, there is a chance that he may not be appointed to the dealer network. I guess it would be similar if you decided to set up and sell Ferraris next to your local place. In addition, reputations get around and this may also influence the decision to appoint or reject a potential dealer.

    There are plenty of online entities primarily interested in a fast buck. They will sometimes sell non-compliant grey imports, sell without labour warranty (illegal) and/or sell without GST (illegal). Some do all of that and more. We have the dubious pleasure of picking up the pieces after these cowboys all the time.

    I can assure you that when you purchase from a reputable business, you are covered by fair trade, Australian Consumer law and all the other fuzzy warm blankets you desire. We experience this frequently from ECA when we ask them for above and beyond to support our clients. When you buy a box from a cowboy, you will likely receive the level of product and service and protection you have paid for. We experience this pretty much each week when potential clients call to ask if we can please help them to (insert specific version) pick up the pieces.

    The Rocket EVO may or may not be a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for and what most need to purchase is much more than just a box.

    Lastly, I would not purchase anything at all based on some unknown's opinion on EweToob and would recommend that you shouldn't either. Who knows what the agenda may be?

    So, where to? Best bet is to get your machine working as it should. If on the other hand there was a stuff up and buyers remorse is leading to espresso machine divorce, do the legwork and see/sample one in the metal. Only then can you make a properly informed decision and choose the right machine for you.
    Last edited by TC; 3rd May 2016 at 07:51 AM. Reason: tpyo ::-)
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  43. #43
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSzad View Post
    Choices are Technika Rotary or Rocket Evo. (evoluzione)
    I talked to a few sellers and they tell me Rocket keep prices artificially high by not selling to online dealers. That really Sux. What about fair trade, consumer protection, etc. SOunds dodgy to me but 2 guys told me the same story. The ECM looks better and from what I read and see on YouTube its also better for performance. $500 cheaper that the Rocket AND a better machine so that's where my cash will be going.
    Importers/wholesalers are not obliged to sell to anyone.

    I imagine (to their credit) Rocket have chosen to sell to reputable dealers who have the knowledge and facilities to service and back up their machines, not to box movers working out of the back shed.

    Chris makes valid points in his post and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

    If you wanna roll the dice by buying a $3000 dollar machine online go ahead, but don't expect any sympathy or support from a reputable dealer when the wheels fall off.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    As a general rule I would say the bigger the grinder, the quieter. Anything from Macap m2m and up is quiet compared to a sunbeam. EM0480? I had one and it was a real rattler.

    This hasn't been my experience at all. I've owned a few Sunbeam EM04xx grinders and they have been relatively noisy, but also relatively fast for a small conical burr. Both my Nemox Lux and my current work grinder (heavily modded Isomac) have been noisier AND slower than the Sunbeams. My Compak K8 Silenzio is only marginally quieter than the Sunbeams, but takes just 5-6sec to grind 18g. My previous 'good' grinder was an Anfim KS which was by far the quietest, but also one of the slowest so there's always a trade off.

  45. #45
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    My Kony-E is pretty quiet (and quick)...

    Mal.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Good points Chris.
    There's even a seller on Gumtree and EBay listing prices ex-GST and selling with parts only warranty - BOTH illegal. There are some dodgy operators out there.
    Report them to the importers. Ethical importers will refuse supply. Simple and effective.
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  47. #47
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I think it's a case of genuine brand protection.

    If you sell something online, you're leaving it to the purchaser to work out how to make the most of your product. The likelihood of this decreases the more specialised your product is.

    Selling through retailers (alone) means that at least once (!!) your customer needs to come in contact with a professional who can explain how your product works, set it up for your needs, and become a touch point for you to return to for help.

    This:
    1. increases the brand value (due to satisfaction)
    2. decreases the manufacturers costs in a. customer support, b. misattributed warranty claims
    3. Provides a good feedback loop for ongoing R&D, as machines aren't going into 'the internet nether'

    There are strong business cases for, as a manufacturer/supplier, not allowing your machines to be sold in a particular manner. I personally think the end point is a benefit to the customer above and beyond the price. It's just a matter of whether someone will value this enough to front up the cash.

    You can tell that this is working. Rocket have excellent machines, excellent brand recognition, and very satisfied customers.


    [Just realised my post is just reiterating what Chris said above.]
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  48. #48
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Also, re the vibe pump - it's still worth having a conversation with your technician (or another technician if you don't like who maintains your machine).

    If you want, get a quieter vibe pump installed, get it suspended on a rubber mount, not fixed to the wall of the machine, and who knows, you might have something as quiet as a rotary.

    I promise you - rotary isn't the silver bullet solution for machine noise. How much noise you get from your pump depends on heaps of factors: how much load it's under, how you've stacked your cups, how warm the machine is, how much water you have in your tank/line pressure.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSzad View Post
    ..... Good luck to Rocket if they don't want to do that but that makes there (sic) machines expensive. Obvious???

    Thanks for all the helpful posts.
    That's it from ranty Pete
    See that's where you get it wrong ranty Pete...

    The internerd is full of eggspurts. Many are ill-informed.

    Logical competitors to Rocket? Perhaps ECM/Profi? Look at the closest possible spec. and what do you find? Similar street prices..

    Illogical competitors? Isomac/Expobar et al? Yes, they're cheaper and if you look inside one or look more closely at the finish, you can see why.

    Sorry mate, but no matter how hard I look, I cannot find a Ferrari at the price of a Tata... You gets what you pays for....
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    Morning,

    Got a couple of questions relating to maintenance of an HX machine.

    Is the cleaner (as shown in the picture) suitable for backflushing an HX machine, like ECM Mechanika? How often do you backflush your HX machine? It's my understanding that there is no difference in backflushing HX machine and single boiler machine (like Silvia). Are there any other things that I should be aware of when backflushing my Mechanika?

    Thanks. Have a nice weekend!

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