Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 243
Like Tree309Likes

Thread: Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

  1. #51
    Senior Member yabba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post

    My call? All very good machines.
    I always question statements like that. On the basis of one opinion and personal bias?
    My Call? The ECM, Its looks good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Does it make better coffee?
    For the sake of continuing the passive aggressive dance around all things subjective which forms opinions, Please define what parameters you would set for “Better Coffee” and according to whose palate? I’m damned if we can’t get to the bottom of this debate with scientific research, none of this opinion rubbish! I need answers people, ANSWERS!!!!

    Cheers Yabba

  2. #52
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071
    I'm gonna call a spade a spade, a skip on the passive... Paul just spent a lot of money on a new machine and is going through the stages of convincing himself it was a good idea, which includes inviting other's appreciation all over the forum. Emotionally a lot of justification happens, including justifying over the replacement. I can understand that. I've experienced it myself.

    The Rocket's are the "cool" machines in this forum, and so we all get tense about comments made about them. Enough of the cock wobbling and comparison. We've seen these arguments before, they're fruitless and plenty enough space has been wasted over them. It's not helping the OP at all. For the sake of sanity in the forum, Paul, it'd be worth starting your own thread rather than taking over other threads with your Contravento - maybe you could do a thorough review with some pros and cons, that would add to the knowledge in this forum - then we can ask our questions about coffee quality over there.

    OP - go play with a few more machines in a shop - this is the best you're probably gonna get from this thread.
    Dimal, Magic_Matt, TC and 3 others like this.

  3. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    557
    Okay, I will try. I cannot give the molecular balance that makes for good coffee. So any statement must be subjective. At our local coffee shop they changed the technique to cater for the folk who like strong (awful) coffee. Even so it is better than the concoction of stale beans, poorly extracted creme from many careless coffee places who should know the difference between dish water and coffee.
    The extraction should draw the best out of the bean, before it gets bitter. The bean is naturally sweet and this is usually in the first part of the creme. We find careful selection of fresh beans and the right temperature in the group with around 9 bar with milk around 63C, the coffee is a pleasing refreshing delightful taste, but you see this is subjective. When I make this coffee for folk after after a morning meditation and yoga they are more than pleased and will ask for a second cup, claiming it is the best coffee around. This too is subjective but as it is from a group we can say it suits many people. But these people prefer a mellow soft sweet drink with a pleasing after taste that lingers. Now I am only a newby at this game. At work the unit is a Rocket Premium couple with a M4D. At home we have a R58 and a Kony-e and today it extracted a most delightful pleasing cup. At work we use a Silvia 14gm basket, at home we use a 18gm Giotto basket.
    I measure the standard of my coffee on the coffee we have at Cimbalino's who frequently in the early morning make a 'god' shot. In writing this I have come to understand that the measure of goodness must be subjective, but if there is consensus from a number of unrelated people then one gathers an idea of what many people like - if they are given the opportunity. This creates the standard to aim for.
    Regarding the R58, of the two, it is easier to use, quieter, steams milk well, stacks of steam, has good pressure and temperature control, looks good, and extracts great creme. and keeps the wife happy - what more could one want! HWHL

  4. #54
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,667
    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'm gonna call a spade a spade, a skip on the passive... Paul just spent a lot of money on a new machine and is going through the stages of convincing himself it was a good idea..
    And that's absolutely fine!

    The bottom line is that he's wrapped with his purchase and what it delivers. Nobody has to justify a spend other than to themselves/their partner.

    Just today I was discussing the merits of our tweaked LM Linea mini (Slayer Slayer?) v Slayer one group and you know what? I'm struggling to see 2 x value in the Slayer in the cup. Does that mean that those who buy Slayer are duffers? Nope, they're pretty damn nice- especially under the hood... If you have the means and the inclination you get to choose!

    Much better to have a lovely machine than blow it all on the black at your local cashino....

    Enjoy the Contravento Paul. No doubt there are many envious CS'ers reading
    flynnaus, readeral and Pasic like this.

  5. #55
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    The bottom line is that he's wrapped with his purchase and what it delivers. Nobody has to justify a spend other than to themselves/their partner.
    Correct Chris.
    I picked this up and I'm on cloud 9.
    No justification needed. I'm absolutely wrapped.
    I have bombarded the forum a little so will pull back the reigns now. Just so happy to have this machine. I wanted it since I saw the prototype at MICE in 2013.

    Cheers everyone

  6. #56
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,502
    Advantages of the ECM Synkronica over the R58 is Stainless boilers, shot timer, PID on front (subjective, but I prefer it), a bigger steam boiler, more solid build quality (at MICE I was told 40kg!!!). German engineering and A1 quality. (Think about cars, German vs Italian).
    Wouldn't touch machines with stainless steel boilers with a barge pole, but that's just my engineering bias showing...

    Mal.
    Yelta likes this.

  7. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Wouldn't touch machines with stainless steel boilers with a barge pole, but that's just my engineering bias showing...

    Mal.
    I thought this was "same same but different". What is the downside to SS?

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    557
    I hear that SS boilers are now a requirement in EU. A new directive. So it won't be long before our imported EU espresso machines all have SS boilers. The new R60 I believe has a SS boiler.

  9. #59
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,667
    Like Mal, I'm keen on copper as well. Stainless welds are harder to get right and the boilers can be more prone to failure- especially at joints. Add in lousy Aussie water and high levels of softener and you have the perfect recipe for an early demise- I recall seeing a large pyramid of dead LM boilers on my last visit to Dimattina WA.

    For those who live in bad water areas and use conventional filtration (or none), boiler replacement will probably become a very expensive part of the maintenance schedule. An ideal solution in lower hardness/TDS areas is buffering filtration such as the Brita C150 finest. In higher hardness/TDS areas it's going to be bottled or RO (with remineralisation if required) if you are looking for longevity. Owners of LM, Synesso, ACS Vesuvius, Rocket R60V et al should be thinking about this now.
    Last edited by TC; 25th March 2016 at 07:00 AM.
    Dimal likes this.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    I agree Mal, stainless boilers/hot water tanks are prone to failure/stress cracking at welds.

  11. #61
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    With filtered water I see no issue with Stainless Steel boilers. SS his an advantage for water purity as Cu from copper boilers makes its way into the brew water (trust me, I'm a former materials scientist)

    Also, SS is resistant to descaling chemicals. With copper you can see the dissolved copper when you descale. It's the green colour.
    Mania and Dazzy like this.

  12. #62
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    I hear that SS boilers are now a requirement in EU. A new directive. So it won't be long before our imported EU espresso machines all have SS boilers. The new R60 I believe has a SS boiler.
    Can you quote your source?

    Bezzera and Giotto are still making machines with copper boilers.

  13. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    557
    I will search.

  14. #64
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly404 View Post
    With filtered water I see no issue with Stainless Steel boilers....
    From http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/education/filtration/ as told to us by our filtration gurus...

    I have an espresso machine with stainless steel boilers. Is there a filter for it?

    Buffering filters such as the C 150 finest maintain water pH whilst softening water. Conventional filters can lead to acidification of water where TDH is higher. This filter overcomes this problem.

    We are now recommending that this filter be used wherever possible and definitely with machines which use stainless steel boilers. The only limitation of this filter when compared to the C150 purity is that the finest MUST be installed vertically.
    kbc likes this.

  15. #65
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966

    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    what do you mean by passive pre infusion? is this different to the built in pre infusion of the e61 group
    Passive pre infusion means that water trickles down to wet the puck at the first stage of raising the lever, without the pump on. Water trickles constantly for as long as you hold it in position 1.

    I have had 4 machines with E61 groups (including the R58) and the ECM is the first to have this function.
    Last edited by kbc; 25th March 2016 at 12:00 PM.

  16. #66
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    80
    You had me worried for a minute about future boiler replacement. Than i though, it is a far lot cheaper than if anything brakes on my car. Not to mention easier access.
    kbc likes this.

  17. #67
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly404 View Post
    Passive pre infusion means that water trickles down to wet the puck at the first stage of raising the lever, without the pumpkin. It trickles constantly for as long as you hold it I position 1.

    Is have had 4 machines with E61 groups (including the R58) and the ECM is the first to have this function.
    Have a read through this Pauly from this thread in 2014 Does an HX machine provide the right temperature?


    • Our Technical Services Engineer, Graeme Burton, takes everything coffee to a whole new level and explains here the E61 grouphead. Graeme worked in Curtin University’s Physics department for many years before joining Five Senses, where he combines his passion for coffee and his scientific know-how.
      State of the art technology in espresso machine design appears to demand ‘saturated’ brew groups. In the saturated design, as much of the brewing group as possible is open to the brew boiler itself. This results in improved temperature stability because the group is saturated with the same body of water whose temperature is being controlled in the boiler. Synesso and La Marzocco both use saturated groups. Obviously a saturated group can only work with machines that have separate steam and brew boilers.
      Before saturated groups were invented, most, if not all, semiautomatic espresso machines utilised a variation of the famous E61 group head. Despite being almost 50 years old, the E61 group head is still found in many espresso machines being manufactured today. This is probably because most espresso machines being manufactured today are of the single boiler, heat exchanger design. However, these days machines tend to use heavily modified versions of the E61 group, which may not incorporate original E61 features such as the thermosyphon heating circuit and passive pre-infusion.
      [Historical Side Note: Ernesto Valente invented the E61 group (shown attached to an Isomac domestic machine above) and it is known as such because it first appeared on the Faema E61 espresso machine. Incidentally, the name E61 signifies the total solar eclipse that occurred in 1961, the year of its invention.]
      Thermal inertia

      Around 4kg of chrome plated brass is used to manufacture the E61 group, thus providing high thermal inertia. It takes a long time to heat up and cool down, but this is important for temperature stability.
      Thermosyphon heating circuit

      The main internal chamber (#3 in the patent drawing, Fig 1) is connected to the brew boiler by two copper pipes seen in the image (above). The upper pipe goes from the top of the boiler to the top of the group chamber, while the lower pipe goes from the bottom of the boiler to the bottom of the group chamber. When the machine pump is not running, the hottest water in the boiler flows to the top and then into the top of the chamber. The water in the chamber cools because not only is it no longer being heated directly by the boiler, but also because it is transferring heat into the atmosphere. When cooled, that water then falls and exits through the lower pipe and into the bottom of the boiler. This produces a circulating flow of water that continues to heat the group. If the machine pump is activated, water is forced out of the boiler through both pipes and into the group chamber to brew coffee.
      Passive pre-infusion

      The term pre-infusion refers to brew water being applied to the coffee at a pressure lower than the ultimate brew pressure, for a specific period of time. This is supposed to gently wet the coffee and allow it to stabilise before receiving the full force of the pumped brew pressure. This should lead to a more even espresso extraction by improving the uniformity of the coffee density in the basket. Pre-infusion can be implemented in several ways. Firstly, the brew water can be applied at mains pressure before switching the brew pump on. Secondly, the brew pump can be run for a short period to introduce water into the group, and then paused before again running the pump at full brew pressure. A third method is to introduce a small jet, typically around 1 mm or less in diameter, into the brew water path. This jet restricts the flow of water to the coffee, even with the brew pump running, and this produces a slower increase in brew pressure. The term ‘passive’ refers to the fact that the brewing process has started and that no other actions are required, such as turning the pump on and off. A main feature of Valente’s patent is that the E61 group incorporates ‘automatic’ pre-infusion which we refer to as ‘passive’ pre-infusion.
      The E61 group head uses a jet and a special chamber for its method of pre-infusion. In the first stage, the pump is activated and water flows through a jet into a small cavity (#14, Fig 1), which is connected to the space above the coffee basket (#4, Fig 1). During this time, water fills the cavity and flows into the coffee basket. As the pressure in the cavity rises, a spring loaded valve (#8, Fig 1) opens to allow water to also flow into the special pre-infusion chamber (#9, Fig 1). Only when the pre-infusion chamber is full can the brew pressure rise to the ultimate brewing pressure. The time it takes these chambers to fill gives rise to a low pressure, passive pre-infusion stage.
      Although the E61 has been superseded for high-end commercial use, it still finds good and appropriate application in the domestic market. The temperature stability, especially when combined with double boilers (eg Expobar Barista Minore), is excellent for low volume use in a domestic setting, and the pre-infusion system is likely to significantly improve espresso extractions in the hands of an amateur barista.
      Written by Graeme Burton, Five Senses Tech Department.




  18. #68
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly404 View Post
    Passive pre infusion means that water trickles down to wet the puck at the first stage of raising the lever, without the pumpkin. It trickles constantly for as long as you hold it I position 1.

    Is have had 4 machines with E61 groups (including the R58) and the ECM is the first to have this function.
    Pumpkin????? my machine has a mushroom, darned if I can locate the pumpkin.
    Dimal and TC like this.

  19. #69
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    That's golden info. Thanks for digging that up.

    Pumpkin. Grrrr damn auto correct - pump on !!! Now edited/corrected

  20. #70
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly404 View Post
    That's golden info. Thanks for digging that up.

    Pumpkin. Grrrr damn auto correct - pump on !!! Now edited/corrected
    It lives on in post #68 this thread By the way I am impressed by your new ECM, great looking machine, hope it performs as well as it looks.
    kbc likes this.

  21. #71
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    It does make amazing coffee. It's awesome. I am wrapped and very happy with this purchase. It looks so great on my bench.

    I have to be honest though. Any dual boiler will make a great coffee in my opinion.

    eg, Expobar Minore probably makes a coffee 90% as good for 30% of the price.

    My opinion....
    TC likes this.

  22. #72
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Quote Originally Posted by dumiya View Post
    I hear that SS boilers are now a requirement in EU. A new directive. So it won't be long before our imported EU espresso machines all have SS boilers.
    I have heard the same.
    You can see that copper gets into your brew. When you descale you get green water coming out. That's the copper. SS Is better - trust me, I'm an ex-materials scientist

    I wouldn't say no to cooper boilers but if I had the choice I would choose SS.

  23. #73
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966

    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Cracking issue for SS boilers - only with poor quality welds - not a worry at all for quality German built machines like ECMs.
    Last edited by kbc; 6th April 2016 at 07:45 AM.
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  24. #74
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    4
    I've tried both machines. Currently have the profitec 700. Bought it over the R58 due to mainly the larger steam boiler, SS and better integrated PID. R58 aesthetically better in my opinion.
    kbc likes this.

  25. #75
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Here's a pic of the new ECM Synchronika. It went up on the ECM website today:

  26. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    80
    Absolutely no regrets on 700 now.(looks wise) I wonder if there is PID / Shot counter display under that tab. Above the switch.

  27. #77
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Nice looking machine , very tidy with clean lines.

    Wouldn't find its way onto my bench because of the toggle valves, much prefer rotary, all about control.

  28. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    699
    Looks good to me... although the drip tray looks very shallow!

    PID display looks very subtle and stylish to my eye.

  29. #79
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    I think that's a removable cover on the PID guys. Not 100% sure though.

  30. #80
    Senior Member Alexpid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I think that's a removable cover on the PID guys. Not 100% sure though.
    It is removable. Look at the ecm dual boiler in this video
    http://youtu.be/6a9tjkrWJiM
    Magic_Matt and kbc like this.

  31. #81
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    6
    Anyone know when we will actually be able to see this new machine in the flesh? I'm in Melbourne and currently looking at a new machine.
    Magic_Matt and kbc like this.

  32. #82
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiptopperoo View Post
    Anyone know when we will actually be able to see this new machine in the flesh? I'm in Melbourne and currently looking at a new machine.
    Get in touch with @K_Bean_Coffee! I believe the first shipment is due mid-may... but you might be able to see one before then. Not sure whether the demo from MICE is still in town...
    kbc likes this.

  33. #83
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966

    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Hi. The demo from MICE is gone... I have 2 pre-sales but they're going directly to customers.
    The good news is that anyone local is welcome to visit and experience the Controvento. The $8.5k Controvento has basically the same components and functionality as the $4.5k Synchronika. That's one reason why the Synchronika is so popular

    Controvento:
    Caps likes this.

  34. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    106
    Would love the raised grid on the drip tray of the Synchronika for my Technika. Any chance that would be available?
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  35. #85
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Not sure... I'll find out Caps.
    Caps likes this.

  36. #86
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,502
    That Controvento of yours is one very handsome machine Paul...

    Up there with the likes of some "Kees van der Westen" designs I reckon...

    Mal.
    kbc and saroadie like this.

  37. #87
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    That Controvento of yours is one very handsome machine Paul...

    Up there with the likes of some "Kees van der Westen" designs I reckon...

    Mal.
    Know what you mean about the "Kees van der Westen" machines Mal, while I do like the design it simply would not work in our kitchen (very old world) whereas the Controvento would look quite at home.

    Having said that it ain't gonna happen, just got my much loved 8 year old Bezzera Galatea back after having a new vac valve fitted and a general health check, it's now running like a new machine, cant see myself replacing it any time soon.

    Regardless as I said, if I were in the market for a new machine the Controvento would certainly be in the running.
    Dimal likes this.

  38. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    219
    Is the syndronika the name for the model that was being called the 75 PID or something? Looks mint!

  39. #89
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    80
    Love the positioning of the steam wand on Controvento. I find myself mashing the jug into the drip try on profitec trying to position it. Synchronika is growing on me.




  40. #90
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,071
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasic View Post
    Love the positioning of the steam wand on Controvento. I find myself mashing the jug into the drip try on profitec trying to position it. Synchronika is growing on me.
    On the Contravento, it looks like the steam valve unit is just the same as a Technika valve, but rotated to 50 degrees, and then there is a different wand. Might be a relatively simple aftermarket change if the thread on the valve would accommodate the adjusted angle.

  41. #91
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Quote Originally Posted by snedden9485 View Post
    Is the syndronika the name for the model that was being called the 75 PID or something? Looks mint!
    The ECM "75 PID" was a nickname when the machine was being developed. It has been released now as the ECM Synchronika. Confusing I know ...
    Magic_Matt and snedden9485 like this.

  42. #92
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966

    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Head up guys.
    ECM just gave me an ex-demo Controvento to list on snobs only. Seems like this is a good spot to mention it as the ex-demo price isn't too far off other DBs

    See my sponsors thread: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/sponsors/4...an-coffee.html

    Last edited by kbc; 12th April 2016 at 03:40 PM.

  43. #93
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    The Synchronika got the thumbs up from a very happy Matt

    kwantfm, Magic_Matt, Caps and 1 others like this.

  44. #94
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,299
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    The Synchronika got the thumbs up from a very happy Matt
    Just a small upgrade over my previous EM6910/450 setup

    Thanks Paul (and @blend52 who supplied the grinder); one very happy new parent of (non-identical) twins
    Dimal, kbc and Aido like this.

  45. #95
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Enjoy it Matt. Looks great.
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  46. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    557
    Well, he said quietly, and it was recorded in very small print, 'I love my R58'

  47. #97
    kbc
    kbc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Keep this thread alive.
    It's a great one for anyone choosing between the Rocket R58, Profitec 700 and ECM Synchronika - all first class DBs.

    I sell all 3 and the ECM is my choice (no secret there). I would put the Profi at #2.

    The R58 is also awesome!!! I had one for 2 years so I know it well. However, to me it's the clear #3

    Lots of opinions on this thread so keep on sharing.

  48. #98
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    5
    What is it that makes the ECM clearly better than the Profitec? Other than the toggle for steam, I don't see any major differences.

  49. #99
    Senior Member Alexpid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    110
    Profitec is produced/branded by ecm, so its no wonder you find similarities...

  50. #100
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,667
    I personally view the concept of "best" with a healthy dose of scepticism. Best =

    • The one which the supplier can buy?
    • The one which delivers the greater seller margin?
    • The one you or your buddy owns (especially in the honeymoon period)?

    There is no such thing as best when you are dealing with this high quality gear- as this is why potential purchasers (as in all industries) need to cultivate a healthy sales schpiel aka BS detector.

    Which is "the best" for you? Only the client can determine what's right and it comes as a result of educating yourself as to what you actually require (rather than what the internet tells you you do) and then comparing pros and cons of a shortlist of appropriate candidates (and suppliers) which you, the purchaser like. Keep that detector turned on I say.
    Last edited by TC; 18th April 2016 at 07:06 AM. Reason: more info
    Dimal, dumiya, ECA and 7 others like this.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •