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Thread: Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

  1. #151
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    Thank you sir!!! Nice to meet you and appreciate your feedback.. Im already ranting on the page you sent ��
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  2. #152
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    I always wanted an opinion on what’s the actual difference between the Profitec pro 700 and ECM Synchronica?
    When looking at actual internals on youtube, the components and even layout/ operation paths are the same.
    Looking at Pail’s pic above , the gicar electronics are not in the same location as on the youtube videos of the ECM. Maybe youtube are showing older models? Actually I see that Paul reported they are wrong pictures.

    Look at the videos from Whole Latte Love:
    Profitec Pro 700 @ 6:40
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiFw0SV24S8

    ECM @ 2:22
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hunFv7E51L8


    I see different chassis - larger folded powder costed on ECM, with what looks like simpler enamelled design on the 700?
    Top heating tray is different
    PID displays differ
    Location of the gauges
    Lever VS turn knobs for steam and hot water – both are spring loaded to reduce wear on seals
    ECM has a patented stainless addition to the E61 group head to help with buildup
    ECM has more details related to aesthetics (badging, finish on portafilter, brew levers, etc.) 700 has a simpler design

    Anything else people has noticed?


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    Just wondering if anyone can advise on the following.

    - what's the amp draw of these three machines. Are they 10 or 15. Not sure what the average home uses in Australai
    - can you run both steam and extraction at the same time without losing much power

    -which on would be most powerful for steaming

  4. #154
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    1. All 10 amp in standard off/the-shelf configuration.
    2. Yes, with no trouble.
    3. Most powerful for steaming is complicated, that depends on how you define "power". Fastest to steam a jug, or longest lasting for multiple jugs?... etc. All will perform excellently at home.
    As per every comparison thread, with these sorts of questions it comes down to little design differences, like which steam tip you prefer or whatever. All personal choices.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    1. All 10 amp in standard off/the-shelf configuration.
    2. Yes, with no trouble.
    3. Most powerful for steaming is complicated, that depends on how you define "power". Fastest to steam a jug, or longest lasting for multiple jugs?... etc. All will perform excellently at home.
    As per every comparison thread, with these sorts of questions it comes down to little design differences, like which steam tip you prefer or whatever. All personal choices.
    Thanks Readeral

    Anyone got any experience with Izzo Valexia Duetto and how this compares with the ecm, rocket our profitec?

    Looks like a contender but not much discussion here. Or is it no good for some reason

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    The R58 draws 1400 watts @240 volts = approx 6amps. It requires a 10amp GPO.
    The PID controls switchs between heating the steam boiler and heating the brew boiler. So the maximum power draw is never exceeded. The control favors the brew boiler as it is the most critical. But there is plenty of steam pressure in reserve.
    You would need a side by side test for the best steam pressure or may be volume controlled the the jest sizes. I prefer fine jets so I use the 1.2 mm nozzle.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Anyone got any experience with Izzo Valexia Duetto
    If you do a search for the Valexia, several threads will be highlighted...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    - what's the amp draw of these three machines. Are they 10 or 15. Not sure what the average home uses in Australai
    The average home in Australia has 10 amp power points. The Pro 700 is 10A with a 15A optional
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Thanks Readeral

    Anyone got any experience with Izzo Valexia Duetto and how this compares with the ecm, rocket our profitec?

    Looks like a contender but not much discussion here. Or is it no good for some reason
    We supply the Izzo range. Certainly in the mix .
    Maybe send me a PM for more details
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    We supply the Izzo range. Certainly in the mix .
    Maybe send me a PM for more details
    +1 for the Izzo range. My Alex Duetto II is seven years old now and has been a delight.... It is rock solid. The only machine which would induce upgraditis would be a single group Slayer, but at circa 15k my trigger finger has never gotten that twitchy.
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  11. #161
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    What is the bendy group?
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    -1. I thought about the Duetto / Valexia years back but I just couldn't love the big chin, bendy group and the cheapie PID.
    They got it wrong with Valeria by working on the side panels instead of the butt ugly drip tray.
    I don't know if the bendy group has been fixed but would hope so and I recall that being an issue in duetto reviews.
    JT
    Crikey cf4m2! Your hard to please, just checked out the Izzo range, good looking well speced machines in my opinion, would certainly be on my list to check out we're I in the market for a new machine.

    "I don't know if the bendy group has been fixed but would hope so"

    This in the spec sheet "**NEW** Reinforce front to reduce flexing"
    Last edited by Yelta; 7th July 2017 at 11:27 AM.
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    When you are spending more than 4k of your hard-earned on a coffee machine, A little fussy can't be wrong.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Yes I'm a fussy one and hard to please but I take a lot of care when I spend big dollars. The Duetto or R58 decision was one I spent many months researching. Reading, videos, etc, etc, etc.
    The Alex / Valexia gets extremely positive reviews around the world and on this forum. Large drip dray has negatives and positives, the PID is the most commonly used PID system around and yes the Valexia has many changes and updates over previous models.

    At the end of the day its your choice, and that it took you many months researching and comparing the two would suggest that the decision was not completely straight forward.

    My comments as a supplier of the Valexia range

    Cheers

    Antony
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  15. #165
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    No rain here coffe4me2
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  16. #166
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    I had to bite my tongue last week but here is a picture of the NEW Alex Duetto IV, a competitor to the Pro 700, R58 and ECM.

    Dressed in the traditional "Alex" style body work, this is the latest incarnation from Grupo Izzo.

    Utilizing all the stainless upgrades from the Valexia, the significant changes are the new lower drip tray, recessed cup tray and spaced out steam and hot water wands.

    Your thoughts?

    Cheers

    Antony
    CASA ESPRESSO
    https://www.casaespresso.com.au/
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    I had to bite my tongue last week but here is a picture of the NEW Alex Duetto IV, a competitor to the Pro 700, R58 and ECM.

    Dressed in the traditional "Alex" style body work, this is the latest incarnation from Grupo Izzo.

    Utilizing all the stainless upgrades from the Valexia, the significant changes are the new lower drip tray, recessed cup tray and spaced out steam and hot water wands.

    Your thoughts?

    Cheers

    Antony
    CASA ESPRESSO
    https://www.casaespresso.com.au/
    Certainly looks the bees knees Antony, classic styling, I like the look of it.
    Price?

  18. #168
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    Looks like a 'bimbo machine' to me... j/k 🤔

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Looks like a 'bimbo machine' to me... j/k 樂
    Mornin Matt.

    "bimbo machine" ???
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  20. #170
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    Hmmm....

    Can't see anything that remotely looks 'blonde' to me.

    Anyway, I also like the clean and simple layout and knowing the build quality of Grupo Izzo, it is undoubtedly a great performer...

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Looks like a 'bimbo machine' to me... j/k 樂
    Matt is the sort of shot you mean? Shows the bimbo better and the Alex Duetto IV is still visible

    12112270_885856354802776_2295164077784365496_n.jpg


    Antony, the Alex Duetto IV looks a good looking machine, nice to have labeling on the knobs. Those 50mm diameter legs must be standard fitment on all high end dual boilers
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  22. #172
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    Yes, looks nice to me. Agree with Yelta...any Pricing available on this sexy machine
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  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Mornin Matt.

    "bimbo machine" ???
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Hmmm....

    Can't see anything that remotely looks 'blonde' to me.

    Anyway, I also like the clean and simple layout and knowing the build quality of Grupo Izzo, it is undoubtedly a great performer...

    Mal.
    Just being cheeky and quoting the below post... I still have no idea what the term means but gather it's something to do with being shiny. 😉

    Personally I like shiny things so maybe I'm a bimbo 🤔

    Either way a +1 from me - looks like an Alex without the minor foibles 👌

    Quote Originally Posted by TC View Post
    Disrespectfully, it's a bimbo machine. As they say, it's in the eye of the beholder and that's what mine beholds...
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  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    ...maybe I'm a bimbo
    Can confirm. Definitely a bimbo.

    --
    I've always been a fan of the Alex range, would've bought one if I had enough money at the time I bought my ECM. Been good to see Izzo are still looking for those additional wins.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Can confirm. Definitely a bimbo.

    --
    I've always been a fan of the Alex range, would've bought one if I had enough money at the time I bought my ECM. Been good to see Izzo are still looking for those additional wins.
    Have to say I'm of the same opinion. Looking at a new machine now at the moment I've always loved the look of the Izzo. Yet some other machines like the ECM Synchronika which is in a similar price range comes to mind. There are pros and cons to all machines..which make a choice so hard...

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    That's a big improvement in dimensions. The only surprise there is that they stuck with that PID. Still if the Izzo looked like this when I was choosing between Izzo and R58 I know I would have gone with the Izzo. So now it's the R58 at the bottom of the magic 4 4 me. Izzo jumps to #3
    You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about current model espresso machines c4m2, wondering where you gained your experience, do you work in the industry? there is nothing in your profile to enlighten us.
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  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    I'm a hobbiest and I love toys toys and more toys. Coffee comes in at #2 after cycling and with both I am always to tinkering and upgrading my tech.
    Caffeine and cycling are a sweet match.
    JT
    Saturated group, Di2 groupset, the ultimate upgrades - can't go wrong ;P
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  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Yes, looks nice to me. Agree with Yelta...any Pricing available on this sexy machine
    Hello all,

    Pricing will be at around the same price as the current Valexia version.

    RRP circa $4700

    I will start another thread specific to the Alex Duetto IV

    Regards
    Antony
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    Izzo much nicer looking with the new drip tray design. Looks a lot more in proportion.

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Saturated group, Di2 groupset, the ultimate upgrades - can't go wrong ;P
    eTAP brifters to start and stop the extraction might just be the ultimate LMLM mod... 🤔

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    eTAP brifters to start and stop the extraction might just be the ultimate LMLM mod...
    With a ratchet noise on the pump so you know when it's slacking off/freewheeling?
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  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    With a ratchet noise on the pump so you know when it's slacking off/freewheeling?
    Carbon body and drip tray so you can pull shots faster.....As for the carbon frame on my Time road bike it has never made me go as fast as i thought it would...
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  33. #183
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    Re the Alex. The drip tray of older ones being deep is a personal thing looks wise. I like it and the huge capacity is good.

    Agree the group/front panel flex was the first thing I noticed going from the bezzera galatea II. Not huge but noticeable, glad they addressed it.

    What do people mean about sticking with the old PID? The new one has built in shot counter (great) but aren't they all essentially the same?

    I don't think there is one machine out there that would please someone 100%, there would always be something (even small) that would be a bug bear.

    Luckily they are all capable, quality machines and the choice is huge!

    Cheers
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  34. #184
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I cant answer for the PID, but i agree with what you say about not one machine would completely satisfy someone %100. I have been looking for some time now (about a year) questioning my own needs and what price i'm willing to go up too for a machine. Ive thought of a GS/3, ive considered the Vesuvius and always liked the Alex Duetto. As i have mentioned before the new version comes out, ive said it would suit my needs but not my partner, she would be annoyed with the distance between the group head and drip tray. Not a big issues but its what have held me off buying one.

    Now with the new Alex due out towards the end of the year, i feel i would be the closest ive been to being happy with a machine. That is taking into consideration price, machine appearance, ergonomics of it, and its ability to make coffee. The shot timer although small for many is a big plus for me.

    You are correct in saying you will never be 100% satisfied with one machine and i guess if we went with looking for things in life and being completely satisfied before buying most of us would never be buying anything.

    All this said, i would be happy with one of these (Alex duetto)

    Last edited by coffeechris; 16th July 2017 at 08:58 PM.
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  35. #185
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    Hey guys!

    Finally took delivery of my brand new machine! I recieved it while on my honeymoon and I couldn't tell ya was itching to get back home )) I wanted to thank everyone who helped me in this decision and gave me feedback on all 3 choices.

    So.... I ended up with the ECM Synchronika. The retailer from whom i bought it from said they are superior to the R58 and Splash a little bit for the upgrade over the Profitec 700.. I like the steam and hot water handle mechanism and I think its easier to use while doing a few drinks.. I paired this machine with the Compak E5 grinder.

    While on my honeymoon in bali, I ended up taking a 3 hour barista course and did build on my learning.. ended up with a crap load of beans as well as out here in Doha we don't often get speciality beans so I must order for a 2-3 months ahead. Some people tell me roasted beans last 1 month, most shops in bali said their beans last 3 months.. Took the chance!

    Day 1, I attempted about 10 espressos.. some ended up as lungos.. others as restretto's but definetly a big let down to getting the shots I was pulling during the course..

    Today is day 2 of the machine and I must say there is 1 disappointment (for me anyways).. I had assumed that given thr hot water boiler is 2 litres, you instAntly have under your hands around 1-1.5 Litres of splurging hot water! Unfortunately, this is not like the commerical machines and you can get around 2 cups of 200-250 ml of hot water, then recovery & refill happens.. I called up the retailer and they explained that this is a coffee machine and not as a kettle.. commerical machines need higher electrical loads etc.. Reason for my dissapointment, Say i want to make 4-5 Americanos in a row.. now I have to wait 3-5 minutes till thr steam boiler recovers and adds water again so in conclusion you can never use these machines even in small cafes as some people might suggest.. I questioned if something was wrong with the machine but they told me not to worry this is normal.

    Otherwise machine is a beauty.. only a good barista is missing
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  36. #186
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    It's easy to get a full load of hot water. Flick the machine off first.

    Flick it back on when you've got the amount you need.

    This prevents the cold water refill occurring while you are drawing from the boiler. The manual for the Profitec actually advises this process.

  37. #187
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    Hmmm 🤔 Amazing! Thank you!

    I'll fiddle around when i get home tonight..

    So basically your saying, put the whole machine off or just shutoff the steam boiler?


    This the sequence you propose:

    1. Shutoff ( machine or steam boiler from under the drip tray ? )
    2. Draw water
    3. Turn back on for refill for further loads




    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    It's easy to get a full load of hot water. Flick the machine off first.

    Flick it back on when you've got the amount you need.

    This prevents the cold water refill occurring while you are drawing from the boiler. The manual for the Profitec actually advises this process.

  38. #188
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    On another note, the million $ question..

    how much coffee should you put in the double spout (14g)

    18-21 grams? If so, why was it designed to take up 14 grams..

    this issue is really boggling me and why are some ports filters narrows / wider than others..



    On another note & for those who might be interested,bit of off-topic,

    The barista in bali last week taught me a very nice trick for Americanos for those interested to maintain the Crema on hot water..

    Fill hot water pre-extraction ( whole cup should be 150 ml including espresso!) others say 180,200 etc.. all depends

    trick is to angle the cup while extraction to the point that you let the spout / nozzle from the portafilter drip the espresso on the glass and not on the hot water directly.. the result the beautiful crema!

    I know alot of you herr are experts but thought maybe someone would be interested.. I was very happy to learn this.

    Cheers guys

  39. #189
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    For americanos or long blacks just boil the kettle for the hot water.
    Americanos you pour the hot water on the espresso for long blacks pour the espresso on the hot water.

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    Didn't know there was a diff.. just thought people from australia / UK didnt like the American labeling so they called it Long black ����

    So your telling me I like long black for the past 6 years or more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    While on my honeymoon in bali, I ended up taking a 3 hour barista course and did build on my learning.. ended up with a crap load of beans as well as out here in Doha we don't often get speciality beans so I must order for a 2-3 months ahead. Some people tell me roasted beans last 1 month, most shops in bali said their beans last 3 months.. Took the chance!
    I think the usual range on roasted beans probably maxes out around 3 weeks from roast date. Definitely for some people/beans it is less.
    There is no hard and fast rule but if anyone is saying over 3 weeks I would treat that as sales/marketing speak.
    Personally, I think two weeks from roast date is generally a stretch.
    This is, of course, in the context of getting the best out of your new espresso machine. Usual societal standards should be suspended/disregarded here.
    But, you are also limited by what you can buy in Doha - so make the best with what you can get.


    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    Today is day 2 of the machine and I must say there is 1 disappointment (for me anyways).. I had assumed that given thr hot water boiler is 2 litres, you instAntly have under your hands around 1-1.5 Litres of splurging hot water! Unfortunately, this is not like the commerical machines and you can get around 2 cups of 200-250 ml of hot water, then recovery & refill happens.. I called up the retailer and they explained that this is a coffee machine and not as a kettle.. commerical machines need higher electrical loads etc.. Reason for my dissapointment, Say i want to make 4-5 Americanos in a row.. now I have to wait 3-5 minutes till thr steam boiler recovers and adds water again so in conclusion you can never use these machines even in small cafes as some people might suggest.. I questioned if something was wrong with the machine but they told me not to worry this is normal.(
    Don't worry, this is normal for every coffee machine.
    The boiler volume will be what it can hold in total. There is some head space in that - it won't be filled to the brim. Coffee boiler will be closer to full. Steam boiler (where your hot water should be coming from?) will be well less than full as a fair percentage of the space in the boiler just has steam in it - not water. Otherwise you'd get no steam out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post

    This the sequence you propose:

    1. Shutoff ( machine or steam boiler from under the drip tray ? )
    2. Draw water
    3. Turn back on for refill for further loads
    Yep - shutoff the main machine switch. If you don't, the cold water will start rushing in to replenish the water level. The cold water rapidly lowers the temp in the boiler below 100C within a few seconds. Once it goes below 100C, there is no pressure to expel water from the boiler.

    This advice is applicable to most similar machines. Using the recommended approach, you will get well over a litre of hot water - you can pretty much empty the boiler.

    Exact quote from manual:

    Dispensing of hot water
    1. Place a suitable container (with heat-insulated grip) underneath the hot water wand. Now you can dispense hot water (e.g. for tea). When dispensing large amounts of water, it is advisable to turn the machine off so that no cold water is pumped out of the fresh water tank.
    2. After having dispensed hot water, turn the machine back on. The boiler is automatically refilled with fresh water.
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  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    The barista in bali last week taught me a very nice trick for Americanos for those interested to maintain the Crema on hot water..

    Fill hot water pre-extraction ( whole cup should be 150 ml including espresso!) others say 180,200 etc.. all depends

    trick is to angle the cup while extraction to the point that you let the spout / nozzle from the portafilter drip the espresso on the glass and not on the hot water directly.. the result the beautiful crema!
    This is a bartender's trick used to make layered drinks. Same principle, and produces an excellent crema on top of a long black.

    My long black process

    1. Draw about 100ml of hot water into a cup. (I use a 180ml porcelain Cappucino cup)
    2. Add a small dash of cold tap water, just to bring the water down a few degrees.
    3. Using a spouted portafilter, pull a double shot, ensuring the streams run down the wall of the cup. You can also use a spoon. See the following Youtube:

    https://youtu.be/-bTEtrts5ZU?t=1m5s
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  44. #194
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlMac View Post
    There is no hard and fast rule but if anyone is saying over 3 weeks I would treat that as sales/marketing speak.
    Personally, I think two weeks from roast date is generally a stretch.
    .
    Way off topic now. I home roast and have had some beans that have been peaking at 3 weeks, at two weeks they are just coming good.
    greenman likes this.

  45. #195
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    Amazing! thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    This is a bartender's trick used to make layered drinks. Same principle, and produces an excellent crema on top of a long black.

    My long black process

    1. Draw about 100ml of hot water into a cup. (I use a 180ml porcelain Cappucino cup)
    2. Add a small dash of cold tap water, just to bring the water down a few degrees.
    3. Using a spouted portafilter, pull a double shot, ensuring the streams run down the wall of the cup. You can also use a spoon. See the following Youtube:

    https://youtu.be/-bTEtrts5ZU?t=1m5s

  46. #196
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    Not at all.. First few days on my machine and 20 shots, each worse than the other.. I open the free 250 mg Specialty roasted pack from the retailer I bought the machine with and oh boy... What a difference. turns out the beans I bought from Bali (from the amazing coffee shop & roaster) were stale. Found a sticker on them saying 02/06/2017.. So much for saying they were roasted the day before... But ended up with stale beans and hence crap coffee.


    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Way off topic now. I home roast and have had some beans that have been peaking at 3 weeks, at two weeks they are just coming good.
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  47. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    On another note, the million $ question..

    how much coffee should you put in the double spout (14g)

    18-21 grams? If so, why was it designed to take up 14 grams..

    this issue is really boggling me and why are some ports filters narrows / wider than others..



    On another note & for those who might be interested,bit of off-topic,

    The barista in bali last week taught me a very nice trick for Americanos for those interested to maintain the Crema on hot water..

    Fill hot water pre-extraction ( whole cup should be 150 ml including espresso!) others say 180,200 etc.. all depends

    trick is to angle the cup while extraction to the point that you let the spout / nozzle from the portafilter drip the espresso on the glass and not on the hot water directly.. the result the beautiful crema!

    I know alot of you herr are experts but thought maybe someone would be interested.. I was very happy to learn this.

    Cheers guys
    On your question regarding the 18-21 grams versus 14 grams: 14 grams is the Classic Italian recipe, but Italian cafés invariably use dark-roasts with some percentage of Robusta beans. These provide a good crema and make for punchier shots, while keeping doses moderately low gets you a high extraction yield and as much sweetness as possible, a sort of comfort shot. Outside the Mediterranean it's mostly about 100% arabica beans. Many of these have less body / punch and in compensation higher doses have become customary. Some Italian designed machines provide for a very limited headspace and as a result the stock baskets can hardly hold more than 14 grams without affecting shot quality. Precision baskets like those from VST have specifically been designed for certain (higher) doses. Myself, I typically dose 16,5 to 17 grams in a 17 grams precision basket.
    Magic_Matt, shewey and ikazooz like this.

  48. #198
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    Great input & thank you for the mini lesson.

    so now I need new baskets ��

    My problem is the input I've been getting is all over the place, some say 18 some 20 some 21, some say depends on the beans.. today I put 21 grams in a naked porta filter, came out beautiful, then went with 18 at the double basket - horrible result and then 12 in the single (awful).. this is on my synchronika!

    I just want a guide of what grams I should put for all 3... some people tell me do it volume based withought any measurement and leave 3mm from the rim (but how would i know before tamping, since im still trying to find out how fine i should grind my new beans.. they say keep testing grinders fine levels.. feels like I've just been wasting beans & bottles of water...



    Quote Originally Posted by degaulle View Post
    On your question regarding the 18-21 grams versus 14 grams: 14 grams is the Classic Italian recipe, but Italian cafés invariably use dark-roasts with some percentage of Robusta beans. These provide a good crema and make for punchier shots, while keeping doses moderately low gets you a high extraction yield and as much sweetness as possible, a sort of comfort shot. Outside the Mediterranean it's mostly about 100% arabica beans. Many of these have less body / punch and in compensation higher doses have become customary. Some Italian designed machines provide for a very limited headspace and as a result the stock baskets can hardly hold more than 14 grams without affecting shot quality. Precision baskets like those from VST .have specifically been designed for certain (higher) doses. Myself, I typically dose 16,5 to 17 grams in a 17 grams precision basket.

  49. #199
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    Great input & thank you for the mini lesson.

    so now I need new baskets ��

    My problem is the input I've been getting is all over the place, some say 18 some 20 some 21, some say depends on the beans.. today I put 21 grams in a naked porta filter, came out beautiful, then went with 18 at the double basket - horrible result and then 12 in the single (awful).. this is on my synchronika!

    I just want a guide of what grams I should put for all 3... some people tell me do it volume based withought any measurement and leave 3mm from the rim (but how would i know before tamping, since im still trying to find out how fine i should grind my new beans.. they say keep testing grinders fine levels.. feels like I've just been wasting beans & bottles of water...
    Single baskets usually end up at the back of the cupboard or in the too hard basket. I use an 18g VST basket on my Profitec 700 dosing it to 20.2g for espresso, I tried my Synesso 18g and baskets that came with the machine but I find the VST far more consistent once dialled in. When I go from one roast to another I only have to adjust the grinder slightly. Good luck with your new machine.
    shewey likes this.

  50. #200
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    You'll typically find the same grind won't work in different volume baskets, unless you can tweak the dose to work. Most people will typically dial in a double basket and split the shot into two cups if a single is desired.

    I use a Pesado/IMS precision basket (with matching shower screen - not sure how much if any difference that makes, but it's a nicely made piece of kit). IME the most important factor with a basket is straight sides and a perforated base covering the entire surface area; from memory the ECM double is slightly tapered. Laser-cut precision holes are nice, but I seriously doubt I could tell any difference in the cup between my old Synesso double and the Pesado, all other things being equal.

    Nominally I think the Pesado is a 20g basket but it doses nicely at 22g.

    Best shot with a new machine is to grab a decent basket, kg of beans that you know you like and spend some time dialing in, then experimenting with lower dose/finer grind and vice versa until you find the sweet spot for your taste and the beans you're using. With the Synchronika you also have the option to adjust brew boiler temperature, which adds another element to experiment with!
    shewey likes this.

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