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Thread: Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

  1. #151
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Looks like we need some fresh pics guys. I'll ask the distributer's if they have any.
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  2. #152
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    I got a very quick response from the distributer. Here's the Synchronika pic from them: Yep, it's the same one found on Imgur.
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  3. #153
    Junior Member Mania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I got a very quick response from the distributer. Here's the Synchronika pic from them:
    Yep, it's the same one found on Imgur.
    Ah thank you!

    So then the inside is not the same as the Profitec Pro 700
    Those boiler end caps have different fittings

    Especially noticeable is the fitting dead center of both
    Also electronics placement

    This is going to represent a nice deal then ....as it does seem identical to
    the inside of the controvento shown here at another dealer
    ECM Germany Controvento Double Boiler Commercial espresso and cappuccino machines - 115V

    Thanks again for the confirmation

  4. #154
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    I really like the coiled lengths of piping to the gauges. My old rocket premium has short straight piping that goes down to the gauge and that seems to block up in the gauge. Next time I have to replace the gauge I'll add some coils of piping.

  5. #155
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    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    We have to keep in mind that these machines (and machines for all top brands) are evolving. We see models named V1, V2, etc. What we don't see is all of the incremental changes along the way.
    What we need are pictures of current models. Let's hope we have someone out there ready to pull apart their machine and take pics for us.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Neat! Interesting that there doesn't appear to be anything important taking up the space next to the water reservoir; I'd assumed there was some reason for the small volume (in the ECM HX machines I believe the tank spans the full width of the chassis?).

    It's about my only complaint so far with the Synchronika - I'm making so much damn coffee I have to refill it every couple of days!
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  7. #157
    TC
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    Are they pics of a prototype or the actual build Paul? I'm seeing boiler out to replace a PID when it goes??

  8. #158
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    This would be either the prototype or the V1 Chris. The V2 is on the way. I'll post pics of that when I get them.

  9. #159
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    Good news Paul,

    It does look unfinished and unresolved- which is why I assumed prototype. Too much nasty there!

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    We have to keep in mind that these machines (and machines for all top brands) are evolving. We see models named V1, V2, etc. What we don't see is all of the incremental changes along the way.
    What we need are pictures of current models. Let's hope we have someone out there ready to pull apart their machine and take pics for us.
    I would have thought a manufacturer would supply ample pics and not leave it to an end user (who is usually overcome with curiosity) to pull apart.

    As the old sayin' goes, "if it ain't broke........"

    Seems to me these machines are perfected as factory, prepared for end user by re-seller and in some cases "fiddled" with by the new owner 'cause curiosity gets the better of 'em.

    When my near 10 year old 6910 has needed attention it took me perhaps 5 years before I opened to look and replace pumps, group heads etc as ultimately it's a Sunbeam, parts are everywhere and it's a cheap machine mass produced in China and yes curiosity got hold of me.

    When I buy a new car, I'm very curious but I NEVER fiddle, it's just too damn nice and expensive and I want the best out of it.

    Likewise, which ever espresso machine we end up getting my priorities will be:

    1. Optimum and consistent brew quality
    2. Of course the aesthetics
    3. Simple user maintenance
    4. If / when something goes wrong, hand it over to a professional

    Some things in life are meant to be enjoyed, not fiddled with.

    That said, time for a brew.

  11. #161
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    The distributer called me this afternoon. They sent me the wrong pic. The pic I posted is from an early/demo Controvento.
    The link below shows a Technika. You can expect the same quality from the new Synchronika. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBtZ3Bkk3g4
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  12. #162
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    I'll be chasing inner pics of the new Synchronika. Of course

  13. #163
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    Ok- shows a little componentry, but still not layout...

    I can't see how it's not boiler out to replace the PID and it is a service which will eventually happen when one is defective or comes to the end of its life.

    This is not to say that there are not irritating jobs on pretty much all machines, but it would be good to have a real look inside. How about you pull the lid on yours?

  14. #164
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    Oh yep. Could do. I'm more interested in Synchronika pics though. The Synchronika is more compact so I want to see how they fit it all in there.
    Fair point about the PID. What sort of life expectancy is there for a PID? Maybe take the Minore as an example as that also has the PID high and near a big boiler.

  15. #165
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    Hi Paul,

    We have replaced quite a few of the Minore I PID. The blue display Gicar which went into the Minore II and III as well as early Alex Duetto 2 and a whole heap of other PID machines was notorious and we have seen plenty across a range of brands. Later red display versions seem way more robust.

    PID and SSR replacements do happen. To this date, I haven't had to remove a boiler to do one...

  16. #166
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    Good news. I followed up with the ECM distributer. Their response: "you can get in there and change it without removing the boiler, a technician with common sense can work it out."
    Not as tight as it looks
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  17. #167
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    Good thing. Always tricky to vector 2D into 3D
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  18. #168
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    This is one of the most entertaining threads I've read on this forum. Made me laugh out loud at least several times in the space of five minutes. Lots of tasty banter and witty repartee.

    I'm going to be totally honest here. Sponsor or no sponsor - if I had the gumption to throw $8.5k at a machine like Paul tossed toward his ECM Contravento (which I don't), I'd be damn sure to indulge in a bit of brazen "cock wobbling" myself!
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  19. #169
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    Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 or New ECM Dual 75 PID; So Many Questions???

    Wow....that's an old thread full of spirited banter. A little too spirited at times
    I got pretty excited about that Controvento, and I would still have it now if the Pro 800 hadn't come along. I had it very wrong with the Minore though !!!red face!!!
    Last edited by K_Bean_Coffee; 5th January 2017 at 02:34 PM.
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  20. #170
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    Hey guys! new to the forum and coffee.. can call me a 6 months old barista rookie. I own a brevilla barista express to start, time for an upgrade. I did some research over the past month and decided on a dual boiler machine. Loved how they work, otherwise next step is commerical.. been reading a ton on this here and I had initially set my mind on the the Rocket R58, however I saw alot of people say positive things on the Profitec 700 and then having spoken to a local store, the manager recommended the EDM synchronica. I like that the profitec & synchronica have shot timers, In my current machine (Breville barista express 860) I used a timer on my phone.. anyways time for an upgrade.. I am leaning towards the synchronica but you guys here seem to want me to save some money ) Im again lost as to whether I should go back to the R58 or end up with this newly proposed models.. Mind you, maintenance is a big issue where I live as I would have to send the machine for service in Italy or closest country but at the same time, I am a mechanical engineer and we work on big boiler, I am sure one of my technicians can help me )

    Appreciate your feedback and opinions and thanks for the wonderful info shared on here!

    Cheers,

    Omar

  21. #171
    gez
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    Hi,

    The Rocket R58 was very high on my list....But, the I got the ECM Synchronika


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  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    I had initially set my mind on the the Rocket R58, however I saw alot of people say positive things on the Profitec 700 and then having spoken to a local store, the manager recommended the ECM Synchronika . .......
    Hi Omar, there's a recent thread comparing these 3 great machines here:
    Rocket R58 vs Profitec 700 vs ECM Synchronika
    Pro 700 is my most popular DB machine for good reason.
    Cheers, Paul
    K Bean - Buyer's Guide
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  23. #173
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    Thank you sir!!! Nice to meet you and appreciate your feedback.. Im already ranting on the page you sent ��
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  24. #174
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    I always wanted an opinion on what’s the actual difference between the Profitec pro 700 and ECM Synchronica?
    When looking at actual internals on youtube, the components and even layout/ operation paths are the same.
    Looking at Pail’s pic above , the gicar electronics are not in the same location as on the youtube videos of the ECM. Maybe youtube are showing older models? Actually I see that Paul reported they are wrong pictures.

    Look at the videos from Whole Latte Love:
    Profitec Pro 700 @ 6:40
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiFw0SV24S8

    ECM @ 2:22
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hunFv7E51L8


    I see different chassis - larger folded powder costed on ECM, with what looks like simpler enamelled design on the 700?
    Top heating tray is different
    PID displays differ
    Location of the gauges
    Lever VS turn knobs for steam and hot water – both are spring loaded to reduce wear on seals
    ECM has a patented stainless addition to the E61 group head to help with buildup
    ECM has more details related to aesthetics (badging, finish on portafilter, brew levers, etc.) 700 has a simpler design

    Anything else people has noticed?


  25. #175
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    That's a great summary Smokey. Good work.
    The machines are sisters, made in the same factory and sharing most components.
    I say to people that when it comes to these machines it comes down to what you like the look and feel of.
    Splitting hairs really. Battle of the TITANS !!!
    Cheers, Paul
    K Bean - Profitec
    K Bean - ECM
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