Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 51 to 66 of 66
Like Tree49Likes

Thread: Breville Oracle Touch - Bes990XL

  1. #51
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13

    Roast dates

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Welcome Dave. What actual beans are you using, and when were they roasted?
    I have two beans I am using to test setting up the machine.
    Starbucks Espresso Roast (dark & pretty oily). Bag does not list roast date, just 'Enjoy before 15 AUG 2018' (not much help)
    The other is a medium/ dark roast w/ little to no oil) from a local roaster. I think was roasted January 28, 2018.

    I did try a very dark and extremely oily French roast (Jan 28, 2018 roast), which as suspected, tasted extremely bitter and all around terrible.

    I'm thinking I should not pay primary attention to the 'start of brew' time of +/- 10 seconds but focus on the flow rate and color, then of course the taste (which I am new at discerning). The default brew time is 25 secs for a single, but one of Phill's (Breville) Youtubes says to set for 30 sec brew and look for a volume of 30 (or down to 25) ml.
    I am confused on how 5 sec longer brew time affects the outcome and taste. I guess it wrings out a bit more of the solids along with the 20% increase in volume, but taste or quality wise is that a + or a possible - .

  2. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Lisbon
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by davekro View Post
    I am confused on how 5 sec longer brew time affects the outcome and taste. I guess it wrings out a bit more of the solids along with the 20% increase in volume, but taste or quality wise is that a + or a possible - .
    If you haven't yet, I recommend having a look at this video by Matt Perger to better understand how dose/yield/time influence what you get in the cup: https://youtu.be/-BT7-yOUMDM
    noonar and davekro like this.

  3. #53
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by zeezaw View Post
    If you haven't yet, I recommend having a look at this video by Matt Perger to better understand how dose/yield/time influence what you get in the cup: https://youtu.be/-BT7-yOUMDM
    zeezaw, HUGE thank you mate. Matts video was amazingly informative as were many of the comments to the video.

    I took detailed notes and hope to try the process tomorrow.
    Thanks,
    Dave
    zeezaw likes this.

  4. #54
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1
    New to site and thread...
    Owner of the Breville Oracle Touch for a month now. Love everything about it except this morning, the portafilter wouldn't seed onto the grind outlet. I have no idea why. What is usually a very easy Insert, turn, click process will not even begin to fit??? Frustrating, so I thought I would socialize it and see if anyone had any suggestions. Thanks.

  5. #55
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    OK, after absorbing Matt Perger's excellent dose/yield/time video, I have been testing this Oracle Touch. Different from Matt's example, I am starting with Single shots (12.2 gr), because I think the account will do 12 oz drinks. God I hope I get the process dialed in before testing (and eating up 20 gr per test) for the double shots!

    After running 11 shots at grind setting 32 kept steady. All my drinks are various degrees of sour. (so I maybe should have started off changing the grind to a bit finer since I think 'sour' is a course grind attribute.) The beans were roasted 10 days ago. The 1.5 pound bag was opened two days ago.

    Anyway, after running 11 shots ranging in time from 23 - 38 seconds, I settled on 30 secs brew time. The seconds to 'start of brew' was right at about 10 secs for all 11 shots. Now here is where I am concerned. The last 5 shots I left at 30 secs brew time and had a puzzling variation in Yield Volume Weight. These last 5 shots were run in maybe a 20 min time frame. Now obviously I can't weigh the actual dose weight of each shot, but I measured a Single shot yesterday at 12.1 gr and just now another at 12.3 gr, so it's hard to imagine the dose weight would vary more than +/- .1-.2 gr.

    My results with 12.2 gram dose in the 'brew time' order I ran them.
    Time set at / Yield Weight in grams / (Ratio = Yield wt. / 12.2 gr)
    30s/ Y 41 gr (3.36)
    25s/ Y 35.6 (2.92)
    38s/ Y 55.2 (4.52)
    23s/ Y 22.4 (1.84)
    25s/ Y 23.4 (1.92)
    28s/ Y 28.6 (2.34)
    ****************** (now all set at 30 sec brew time)
    30s/ Y 40.7 (3.3)
    " Y 29.2 (2.4)
    " Y 31.6 (2.6)
    " Y 19.7 (1.6)
    " Y 37.2 (3.05)

    From my research it seems this machine with a medium dark espresso roast, I should target a 2.5 ratio. My taste buds are new to the taste descriptions of espresso, so I try to lean towards number outcomes and how smooth and golden colored the flow is. My taste has been able to discern Sour (too coarse/ under extracted) and Bitter (too fine/ under extracted), but I have not seen bitter in today's (above) results.

    At this point in Matt's process, I'd lock in the Yield, but with no changes on my part, the machine does not seem to be able to settle on one yield??? Any insights as to why this might be? I have started with a completely dry Single shot basket each time. I read that was suppose to reduce water channeling around the edges of the basket (is this true?). A rep from Breville USA told me a wet basket was better as it allowed for a better dispersion of grounds or tamp (I don't recall which). So what is preferred on this machine wet basket or dry?

    Might my grounds be coarse enough to allow 'channeling' thru the grinds in the brew process creating wide variations in Yield?

    If anyone with this machine (or related experience with the 980 non touch) can share their specif experience, that would be great. Maybe share your dialed in Grind Time and Brew time, so I at least have a ball park place to start my testing for my specific beans. Also, what kind of range change do you see from one bean to another on Yield and Brew Time (good to know if it is big or just fine tuning)?

    Of course ANY comments from the gurus on my general path forward would be greatly appreciated as well.
    (end of novel ;o)

  6. #56
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wemasube View Post
    New to site and thread...
    Owner of the Breville Oracle Touch for a month now. Love everything about it except this morning, the portafilter wouldn't seed onto the grind outlet. I have no idea why. What is usually a very easy Insert, turn, click process will not even begin to fit??? Frustrating, so I thought I would socialize it and see if anyone had any suggestions. Thanks.
    Hi Wemasube,
    I'm new here also. Have you looked up into the grinder to see what it looks like? (I turned my camera to selfie side and it was easy to see what's there) I took some shots with and w/o the fan in place. Basically there are two white plastic inserts that I'm guessing the portafilter compresses into. Maybe one of those has become disconnected or moved out of place?? Does your fan seem flat and all the way in place? If you have not removed it before, try removing it and see if you can see if it was somehow misaligned (take pictures 'before' pulling fan so you can compare with after you replace it. The long skinny bristle brush has a magnet that you just place on the center of the fan and it pops down easily. To replace, feel for the orientation of the shafts flat sides and align fan to fit. I found it easier to get fan to go back in when I had it on the magnet tool, rather than just in my hand.

    Let us know what you find.
    Good luck
    (add your part of the world to your profile. I just did that )

    'Touch' Grinder w: fan.jpg'Touch' Grinder w:o fan.jpg
    Last edited by davekro; 1 Week Ago at 09:38 AM. Reason: forgot to add pics

  7. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    306
    Hi davekro,

    I like your dedication for the perfect cup!

    I have not used an Oracle but have seen them in action in videos, and the basics to make a good cup are universally applicable.

    Quote Originally Posted by davekro View Post
    I am starting with Single shots (12.2 gr)
    For now, I strongly recommend you drop the single basket and use the double basket instead. The tapered single basket that comes with Breville is not conducive to high extraction that you're doing (meaning the 2.5 brew ratio will be too much and over-extracting your coffee). For those single baskets, I would aim for 1.5:1 brew ratio at most. Also, the taper-shaped single baskets tend to channel which explains your variation in shot volume/time.

    Another thing that may cause the variation is the amount of bean in the hopper. As the hopper empties, your grind will become coarser. Keep that in check to prevent unexpected variation.


    So try using the double basket, aim for a brew ratio of 2:1 to 2.5:1, in 30+/-2 s (lower ratio = longer extraction time, higher ratio = shorter extraction time). You should get there really quickly, hopefully!
    zeezaw and davekro like this.

  8. #58
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    Big thanks for letting me know that one should aim for a lower ratio with the single basket. I had not seen that since all sources I saw were using a double basket. Important piece of info!
    As far a setting up the double dose, I wanted to first dial in the single as it 'might' be the CEO's preferred dose, but not sure. All I have to go on is that his drink of choice is Starbuck's soy latte. I do not yet know his preferred drink size. Online says Starbuck's uses one shot for 12 oz (tall) and two shots for 16 & 20 oz (Grande & Vente). I don't know their shot volume for single and double.

    I have been trying to keep hopper at least half full. I am conceerned about the account leaving beans in the hopper when it will sit for 2-3 days w/o any use when CEO is traveling and week ends. Is it important enough to (big) ask the admin to dump beans into a zip lock when machine will be idle (or even as a rule at the end f each day?)?? I hate to ask them to do that unless it will affect his soy latte taste.

    Off to change to aim for 1.5 : 1 ratio... THANK YOU!

  9. #59
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    Anyone know either the initial factory Grind setting or a good grind setting to start with on my Double shot (20.3 gr) testing? How do you pick a grind setting to start? Do you just look for a good looking flow from the existing time setting and hope for a +/- 'x' Yield gram weight? Should I shoot for 50 gr Yield on the double?
    Actually, should I try to adjust time to get a desired Yield, or should I adjust time to shoot for a desired ratio??

    I'll now stop beating my head against the wall trying to get a decent tasting and consistent volume Single Shot and change over to the Double Shot testing.
    I'll start with the factory set Double of 30 second Brew Time. I kick myself for upon unboxing, I twisted the grind knob a few turns each way before even plugging it in. Dumb in hind sight as I lost the factory tested grind setting.

    Boy, am I becoming a serial questioner!
    Last edited by davekro; 1 Week Ago at 12:51 PM.

  10. #60
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13

    '5 Cent Test' results (dime in the U.S.)

    Using US dime (1.35mm x 17.91mm) to try matching the AUS 5 Cent (1.3mm x 19.41mm) test,
    When pulling the PF handle perpendicular to machine, I get the coin completely embedded and flush with the 990's pretamped grounds as well as an imprint from the brew screen itself. Also, it takes a pretty hard pull to get the portafilter handle to be perpendicular to the machine. Theoretically from the below '5 cent test' links, if the coin is pressed fully into the grounds it means over dosed (w/ no small gap between the brew screen and grounds). But interestingly, when I lowered the tamp fan* in an attempt to lower the grounds level, it did not seem to lower the level (w/ the Single basket that I tested with), it just lowered the gram weight from 12.2 to 10.7 g (-1.5 g), not the actual grounds level. (ref:moving fan back 'up' a half turn got me 11.3 g dose)

    Breville rep in US said it's OK for the grounds to be imprinted with the brew screen, that it will not adversely affect the pour or the drink. I am confused. Which is it? I guess with this machine, by design we will get no gap between the screen and grounds. I might leave fan height adjustment at net minus 1/2 tun w/ 11.3 g dose, because I don't have to 'muscle' the PF handle to get to the 90 position, unless there is a recommendation otherwise here.



    Factory setting (12.2 g) 5 Cent Test.jpg Lowered spindle for tamp fan one full 360 turn (10.7 g) 5 Cent Test- Lower 1.5 gr.jpg


    Links to '5 Cent Test: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns
    https://coffeeforum.org.au/how-to-im...a-smooth-pour/

    * Procedure per Breville (removed the fan, unscrewed spindle, loosened set screw, unscrewed shaft bolt one full 360 turn, re-tighten set screw, screw spindle back into grinder counter clockwise to hand tight).

  11. #61
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    304
    Ideally you would have the grounds just below the level of the shower screen, but keep in mind the grounds swell when water is added (as little air space as possible).

    I don't know for sure what the Breville rep means but the pour wont be terribly affected (although I would think some as the grounds are physically compacted against the shower screen and can't swell), however it is a matter of hygiene. If the grounds constantly press against the shower screen you will get a lot of oils built up in and around the shower screen which inevitably will make a difference to the shot quality.

  12. #62
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Ideally you would have the grounds just below the level of the shower screen, but keep in mind the grounds swell when water is added (as little air space as possible).

    I don't know for sure what the Breville rep means but the pour wont be terribly affected (although I would think some as the grounds are physically compacted against the shower screen and can't swell), however it is a matter of hygiene. If the grounds constantly press against the shower screen you will get a lot of oils built up in and around the shower screen which inevitably will make a difference to the shot quality.
    Unfortunately, it appears that this machine may be incapable of 'lowering' the dry grounds level after it's automatic tamping, as my experiment leads me to believe. Though I did not try to lower the fan further than the one full turn as I did not want to drop the Single basket dose further than from 12.2 g down to 10.7 g already a 1.5 g drop. I don't think I want to test if a change to 9 g 'might' drop the dry grounds post auto tamped level enough to allow a 1 mm gap. I ended up moving the tamping fan back 'up' a half turn, so now my doses went from (factory/ my adjstmt) Single 12.2/ 11.3g, Double 20.3/ 19.4g.

    I finished testing and got final quality shots for my 'Medium Espresso Roast' bean at:
    Single shot basket; 11.3 g grounds, Grind set at #31, Time set at 21 secs. Avg Yield was 29.5 gr wt. Avg Ratio was 3.3 (ratio sound high, but this mix got the best balance taste/ smoothness between the tastes of sour and bitter.
    Double shot basket; 19.4 g grounds, Grind set at #25, Time set at 25 secs. Avg Yield was 48.9 gr wt. Avg Ratio was 2.5 (ratio seems to spec, this mix got the best balance taste/ smoothness between the tastes of sour and bitter.

    Interesting that the grind for the same bean needed to change so much to get good tasting / balance shots from the single vs. double shot pulls. Breville told me for a single, my time should be 20-25 secs to get 30g yield (I was in spec for the single).
    Breville said spec for a double should be 30-35 secs to get 60 g yield. (surprisingly, I needed to drop my time way below that spec to 25 secs to the best taste which ended up being just under a 50 g wt. yield. But since my dose was 19.4 g instead of the factory assumed dose of ≈ 22g, I figured the lower yield was OK. Especially since taste was the deciding factor (and hit the magic ratio of 2.5... ;o).

    Now I am off to test a way oilier bean that I believe my accounts CEO, a die hard Starbucks drinker will demand to use (S'bucks 'Espresso' roast). )
    Last edited by davekro; 1 Week Ago at 01:01 PM.

  13. #63
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13

    The Fix for losing drink settings & 'memorized drinks' (per Breville USA)

    After installing the 990 Touch in the executive pantry of my coffee account, I ran into the 'losing drink settings' problem. After being on hold for Breville USA customer support for 30 mins. I was told there is a glitch in the software that allows the settings to be erased if one the following two situations is in play:
    1) any Milk Temperature is set above 168f or 2) Any custom drink name has more than 10 characters. I was told the CEO always ordered his soy latte extra hot. Initially, I had said the max temp was 170, but recommended 165. The admin insisted on 170. Getting a call the next day that the drinks settings were gone, I then called Breville USA (Torrance CA). They said I could either lower the Milk Temp to 168 or below or send the machine in to be reprogrammed which would take 2-3 weeks to get back. I lowered the milk temp to 167.

    If anyone loses their drink settings when they have no Milk Temps set above 168, please call Breville and let us know what they tell you about what the workaround is.
    Breville USA has a specific direct phone number for Oracle customer service (866) 765-2445. The regular Breville USA cust. serv. #is (866) 273-8455.
    The direct line is not any less hold time than the main CS #.

  14. #64
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13

    My Grind & Brew time settings for Oracle Touch

    I thought I'd post the grind and brew time settings that I ended up with after running many test shots with two different beans for both double and single shot doses. Note that I have adjusted the tamping fan lower by one half turn from how I received machine from the factory. Initially this was in hopes of getting the grounds NOT to press hard directly onto the brew screen. This dropped the dose weight for this particular bean from (factory set) 12.2 g to 11.3g. I decided to leave it at this setting because it was particularly hard to pull the portafilter handle to a full 90 position.

    My first round of testing was with a ≈ 10 days from roast medium dark espresso roast, roasted to achieve almost no oil (due to constraints of the super automatic's I use these beans in).
    Single Shot (11.3g) Grind #31, 21 secs to brew, ≈30g/ml yield vol., ≈2.6 yield/dose ratio
    Double Shot (19.4g) Grind #25, 25 secs to brew, ≈49g/ml yield vol., ≈2.5 yield/dose ratio (note: dose before fan lowered 1/2 turn was ≈21g IIRC)

    Second round of testing was with this accounts bean of choice Starbuck's Espresso roast. A pretty dark roast and very oily (but not as 'burnt' dark and oily as a French roast).
    Starbucks does not list a 'Roasted On' date, just the nefarious 'Best by date', which was Aug 15, 2018.
    Single Shot (11.5g) Grind #31, 21 secs to brew, ≈37g/ml yield vol., ≈3.2 yield/dose ratio
    Double Shot (19.7g) Grind #24, 23 secs to brew, ≈60g/ml yield vol., ≈3.0 yield/dose ratio

    These settings will vary for your beans, but may give noobies like I was a place to start testing from.

    If anyone cares to report their grind and brew time settings as well as their bean brand and roast name (along with the roast color/level and oiliness description because many won't know your bean). It may help fellow new Touch owners get started.

    Good luck,
    Dave
    Last edited by davekro; 2 Days Ago at 07:04 AM. Reason: spelling

  15. #65
    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    MILLBROOK VIC
    Posts
    580
    Mind if I ask how you lower the tamp fan dave?

  16. #66
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area, California
    Posts
    13

    How to lower tamping fan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukemc View Post
    Mind if I ask how you lower the tamp fan dave?
    Luke,

    To lower the tamping fan and hence reduce the gram dose and amount of force required to pull portafilter into position (90 to machine):
    1) Remove tamping fan (held in place just with magnetic force), use magnet on end of longer bristle brush and magnetically attach it to center of tamping fan and 'pry' downward so fan pops off.
    2) Reach under and with your fingers, turn the fan shaft clock wise (normally, righty is tighty, but not in this case). Shaft coupling will unscrew easily. No wrench is required. If it does not turn off, you are turning the wrong way. ;o)
    3) Once you have the coupling in your hand, use a sharpie or scratch an alignment mark so you know where you started.
    4) Use smaller (2mm) hex/allen wrench to loosen the set screw on coupling.
    5) To lower fan, unscrew. I recommend half turn interval to see what that gets you. My first adjusstment was a full 360 turn out/lower (counter clockwise) which reduced my dose by If I recall correctly, about 1.5 grams. This amount still had the brew screen leaving an imprint on the grounds and fully pressing the ' 5 cent test' coin (dime in U.S.) into the grounds and did not leave the hoped for 1mm air gap. So I turned it back 'in' a half turn.
    6) re-tighten set screw
    7) screw coupling 'counter clockwise' back into the grinder (finger tight only).
    8) feel for shaft 'sides' orientation, place fan back onto magnet brush so fan slot aligns with shaft and raise into place until fan finds 'home' magnetically. I found using the magnet brush a little easier than free hand placing fan into 'home' position,

    Good luck.

    What is your reason for wanting to adjust the fan?
    Lukemc likes this.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •