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Thread: Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.

  1. #1
    SPH
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    Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.

    I grabbed a Azkoyen Vienna two group from a backpackers this morning. Listed as not working with an electrical fault.
    It's in really quite good condition externally. Dirty inside by the looks, only did a quick inspection under the drip tray. Sparkling compared to the Boema though.

    It looks to be 20amp single phase or something along those lines. Like a 15 amp earth pin on all three pins. I'd rather it run on 10 or 15amps so I might look into a lower watt element. Mind you, it looks as though the machine has a two or three stage element so it might be a simple case of disconnecting a leg or two.

    All push button controls so there's a chance they could be stuffed.

    I'll know more as I go, just wanted to know if there's anyone with experience with these machines.

    Cheers

    Sam
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  2. #2
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    They're not bad machines, I'm not a fan of the design and the plastics seem to be quite brittle from my experience. Spares are readily available but if it's got electrical problems that extend to the circuit boards or touchpads you might be in for a rough time.

    The boiler pressure is controlled via SSR's and a pressure transducer or temperature sensor, not sure which, rather than a conventional pressurestat. The boiler pressure adjustment is on the circuit board under the drip tray, it's a tiny adjustable resistor.
    Caught me out the first time as I just expected it to have a pressurestat.

  3. #3
    SPH
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    Good to know. Cheers.

  4. #4
    SPH
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  5. #5
    SPH
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    All looks pretty normal in there. Pump is a lot newer than the rest of the machine. Side covers are all cast aluminium, no plastic. Much nicer construction than the Boema was.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.

    High pressure hose the night away. It's not looking as bad as some.

    What delights are inside that boiler waiting for you?

    All the best with the reco

  7. #7
    SPH
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    Yeah plumbed by Bunnings!

  8. #8
    SPH
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    Ok. Pump works. Volumetric works. Elements aren't getting any current and I've got a flashing red light on the main board. No luck finding a manual. Any help greatly appreciated.

    Also... who in their right mind puts a control board directly under a group head. I almost had a disaster with a drip.

  9. #9
    SPH
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    Uhh... ok. Still can't get any action from my multimeter on any of the switch or element terminals... but it's getting warm. In position one at any rate. This is where everyone gets worried and comments on not sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, right?
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  10. #10
    SPH
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    Yeah.
    Set on DC.
    It's working fine.
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  11. #11
    SPH
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    Well, if this thing has an 'electrical fault' as advertised I can't find it. Heats up, steams up, pulls a shot. All volumetric buttons work. Hot water works. Pressure sensor works. Boiler probe works. Gauges work.
    Only thing I can't check is the third element position. Only got a 15 amp circuit in the shed. One and two work though.

    Happy days!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPH View Post
    Also... who in their right mind puts a control board directly under a group head. I almost had a disaster with a drip.
    At least Azkoyen encased their boards in some kind of resin, so stray drips are less likely to cause an expensive loss of 'magic smoke' than with other makes. Although you need to be very careful not to fry the board since they are now unavailable - we've got maybe a dozen Viennas sitting in storage that can't be resurrected since all the control boards have been taken to fix machines in use.
    If it genuinely has an electrical fault but everything appears to be working and you haven't tested the third leg of the element, my guess for the most likely possibility is the last leg is either not heating, or continues to heat after the machine gets up to the set pressure. Sometimes the Solid State Relays fail in a 'permanently on' state, so while 2 legs shut off, the dodgy one keeps heating so that the machine slowly overpressurises. It's about the only electrical fault I can think of with a Vienna that won't show up if all but one leg is switched on.

    You won't be able to find a manual anywhere, but programming is easy enough. Press the red button on the very left and the light by the power switch should start blinking - that puts you in program mode, and you use the 'master' left touchpad to program the doses - from memory you have to stop each dose you program with the stop button, not by re-pressing the dose button you are setting. You can program the right 'slave' touchpad to different settings by entering program mode then pressing that red button again so the indicator light blinks faster, then program the buttons on the 'slave' pad. Setting boiler temperature is by the tiny blue potentiometer on the right side of the board visible through a little hole - the red LED beside it indicates when the boiler is heating, and it's a bit of a fiddly procedure getting it set where you want it, but essentially you check it by opening a steam tap until the light comes on, and watch the light and the gauge to see where the pressure is on the gauge when the light goes out.
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  13. #13
    SPH
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    Awesome, that's really helpful. Thanks!
    I switched the machine to full power once I'd had it sitting on the bench for a while. The circuit managed it and all three legs powered up. It switched on and off as expected. Didn't over pressurise. I'll power it up again tomorrow and do some more bench testing. As great as it is to find no problems it's unlikely it was retired for no reason.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    On a winner.

    Any special "flavours" coming from the boiler?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    The boiler pressure is controlled via SSR's and a pressure transducer or temperature sensor, not sure which,
    It's a temperature probe in the left hand end of the boiler, which sends a signal back to the board, setting is adjusted by a potentiometer, then the board sends a trigger voltage to each of the SSRs. The power to the SSRs comes from the power switch, which determines how many of the SSRs are powered up according to the switch position.

    Also, if you need to replace seals and showers in the groups, chances are the heads/handles have enough wear that the standard 8mm thick Azkoyen seals let the handles rotate too far in the groups - what we use if the standard seals are too thin are 8.5mm seals for a CMA/San Marino machine, or if those aren't thick enough we use 9mm thick Faema seals. Standard Azkoyen showers may be hard to get, and also rely on a thin ridge around the edge of the removable brass diffuser in the group to locate them centrally. Often this is worn away, and we have been fitting Marzocco showers instead, since these have a shallow cup shape which fits over the edge of the diffuser and locates itself centrally.

  16. #16
    SPH
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    All great info. Thanks again. I mean, it's really early days but so far everything seems to be pretty usable. The handles don't rotate much past 90 degrees, the shower screens look fine. The machine is dirty but it was in a backpackers and I really doubt it got a ton of use.
    As for the boiler, it ain't broke so I'm not going to fix it. I descale the Boema that I repaired and it caused more problems than it solved. I will if I have to. I guess it could pull the element and see what everything looks like. I might just pull myself a glass of boiler juice and see how it tastes.
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  17. #17
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    The Vienna I worked on needed 9mm seals and a spacer, it was pretty worn out. Was just going in a servo out west and they didn't want to spend a lot.

    The machine was in very poor shape physically so I had to clean it and do all the general service items and they still complained about the final invoice cost.
    If you're gonna buy a machine sight unseen then get me to make it operational you'll need to pay.

    I think I used some spare showers I had in stock, can't remember what brand they were but they worked ok.

    Pull the jet out of a group or pull the solenoid off and have a look, you should be able to see any scale.
    Check the boiler probe too.
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  18. #18
    SPH
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    Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.

    Yep, that sounds like a plan. I'll check the scale situation tomorrow. Sounds like the one you worked on was in much worse shape than this one.

    So far I'm pretty happy with this one. My BOEMA cost $40 and then needed $400 worth of parts. $200 of that was just for portafilters. The irony is that the shop I installed it in had a pair of old ones in a box out the back. Then there was the element that I killed during the descaling. If I added my time to the bill it wouldn't have been even remotely worth it.

    This one cost $100, came with a double filter and doesn't look to need much else.
    I still reckon there's a gremlin hiding in there somewhere.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorganGT View Post
    If it genuinely has an electrical fault but everything appears to be working and you haven't tested the third leg of the element, my guess for the most likely possibility is the last leg is either not heating, or continues to heat after the machine gets up to the set pressure. Sometimes the Solid State Relays fail in a 'permanently on' state, so while 2 legs shut off, the dodgy one keeps heating so that the machine slowly overpressurises. It's about the only electrical fault I can think of with a Vienna that won't show up if all but one leg is switched on.
    I think I may have jinxed myself mentioning this problem - turns out my very first job tomorrow morning at 6 am is a Vienna with what sounds like exactly this problem. Going to have to drag myself out of bed an hour or so earlier than usual, despite still having the flu that's knocked me flat all long weekend (not helped by a breakdown callout fist thing this morning). Pity the Gloria Jeans it is at hasn't yet upgraded to a La Marzocco GB5 like most other stores!
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  20. #20
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    Hi SPH

    I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
    I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
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  21. #21
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Make another couple of posts and then post up the manuals here: Documentation - Extreme Machines That way anybody who has a need will have ready access to them.


    Java "Share the data!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  22. #22
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    Make another couple of posts and then post up the manuals here: Documentation - Extreme Machines That way anybody who has a need will have ready access to them.


    Ah Ok I'll think up something worthy to add to the discussions and get posting... - How many do I need before I can post documents and also upload photos?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by snl686 View Post
    Hi SPH

    I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
    I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
    Hi, l have a Bravo which I am trying to fix up. This is not only my first post here but also my first machine (other than stovetop). I'd love a copy of the manual, all my knowledge so far comes from reading the numerous and helpful posts here. I've pulled one good shot and several substandard shots but have now dismantled the machine to try to refurbish to an electrically safe and generally roadworthy standard.
    The touch-pad controls were inconsistent, button function changed between shots! Fortunately my multimeter showed one touch pad to be unservicable but the other is fine- so I know which pins go to which button and which lead is common. I am replacing u/s one with push buttons so hopefully that fixes the problem, rather than suggesting a computer problem.
    Next problems: the pump sometimes makes a bad noise and trips the household circuit-breaker, and the plastic panels are broken (difficult to fix). I have the exploded parts diagram, but the manual would save a lot of time working out if the programming works. I want to confirm that before investing in sorting other problems.

    If I can get it to a publicly acceptable standard it will bu used for it's intended gifted purpose at a community coffee morning, if only to a privately useable standard I'll keep it for home use. Fabricating replacement panels is daunting, but gaffa taped plastic over 240v is not safe enough for public use, so it looks like good coffee at home for a while at least!
    Thanks in anticipation
    Monsoonbarra.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
    I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
    Also waiting with baited breath for any tech info on the Vienna (or Bravo). It's good to see that there are a few others working on these machines.
    It's beginning to look as though Service Manuals for these are non-existent.
    I would really appreciate a photo or details of the terminal labeling on the 4 position main switch if anyone can please supply.
    Also noted MorganGT's comment above on the SSRs and will be sure to test these before 'firing up' ours.
    Trev

  25. #25
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    I managed to take a couple of photos of our 3 group Vienna restoration project.

    This one shows the main control switch with the missing terminal labels which we are desperate to get more info on -

    IMG_0859.jpg

    Working from the connection diagram on p22 of the Set Up manual, which I have posted in the Documentation section, we are hoping to restore it to the correct single phase configuration from the rather dodgy setup we found when we started. The control switch is a Bremas series A 1600 rotary cam switch but there does not seem to be any info available for it online and having no terminal labels left on it does not help. I have spent several hours figuring out the switching sequence and used some 12v lamps and a battery (out of sight on the 3 pairs of wires in the photo) to simulate the 3 heating elements.
    I also plan to thoroughly check all of the heating element circuit to make sure it is correct.

    Next are a couple of photos of the front & back views of the internals-

    IMG_0861.jpg

    IMG_0860.jpg

    Still a long way to go but we're enjoying the journey!

    PS Apologies to SPH for jumping in on his thread but the information we have found here has been most helpful and would love to see more photos.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snl686 View Post
    Hi SPH

    I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
    I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
    Following a PM snl686 kindly sent me a copy of these docs and was happy for me to put copies in the Documentation section - many thanks!

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