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Thread: Advice Opinions - Valexia or Pro800

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    Advice Opinions - Valexia or Pro800

    I have been stalking this forum for quite a while and thanks to this place uncovered a desire for the simplicity and beauty of a leva machine; particularly after multiple failed Sunbeam/Breville machines. Thanks to this forum, this expensive desire culminated with the Izzo Gruppo lever machine.

    After much searching, reading, backflipping and procrastination I have managed to narrow down the choice to these 2 machines. The Izzo Valexia and the Profitec Pro800, finally accepting the fact that the Izzo Gruppo is too rich for my blood

    I should explain that eventually I will have this machine plumbed-in in a Butler's pantry, but that is yet to be started, so in the short term I will need to run it stand alone on the kitchen bemch which, means a temporary measure for the Valexia; doable but unnecessary with the Pro800.

    Passion wise I like the Valexia, however in practicality, I have nothing against the Pro800 and think it may be the better option due its ability to run from a water tank. (I think I have seen some nice modified sides on it too somewhere). I have also received some very nice pricing that is almost identical on both machines from forum sponors so thats not a thing.

    I have read both forum threads here on these machines and remain indecisive, so that brings me here seeking other's thoughts/opinions on these two machines so that I can just make a bloody decision and get one.
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    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    Valexia if your able to get around the temp plumbing issue (if it was my choice!) no pump noise and I've had some amazing shots from one
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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Taking brands to the side, this is really about electronic pressure profiling v manual lever pressure profiling.

    I have been through many home machines including a 9 month affair with a Profitec Pro 800

    To me the real advantage of a lever is the ability to control pressure on-the-run. What I mean by that is that you can slow down extraction by holding back the lever if you grind too coarse or speed up by pushing the lever if you grind too fine. I don't think the lever machine made a better coffee and I don't think I can make a better coffee with a lever than I can with an E61. However, with a lever machine I can get a great extraction more consistently.

    I played with all sorts of pressure profiles and didn't really find any significant difference between then. That's why to me, pressure profiling doesn't make sense. This is from my experience and with my palate. Others may have different thoughts/experiences so please share them

    Cheers, Paul

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    Hi think the poster is comparing the Valexia Leva with the Pro 800
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Advice Opinions - Valexia or Pro800

    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Hi think the poster is comparing the Valexia Leva with the Pro 800
    That was my impression as well.

    Happy to be corrected, but if you remove the ability to run off tank from the equation, the biggest difference will be the group - narrower but deeper La San Marco on the Izzo vs 58mm E-61 on the Profi. If using your existing baskets, tampers etc is desirable that might be a factor for you - though of course you can always sell them or have tampers machined down.

    When I was looking at a second-hand Alex Leva I came across a few mentions of portafilter blowouts due to choking; apparently easily solved with the right portafilter and perhaps some machining of the lugs, so perhaps not a real factor. Still, never heard of this issue at all with any E-61 group machine. OTOH, many people claim that the deeper basket on the Izzo is more forgiving and leads to shots with more body.

    Personally I love the look of the cutouts revealing the spring on the LSM group; I know some people don't.

    For me, the requirement to use an external tank and pump killed the appeal of the Izzo - I rent and move often so even if I can run a filter in one house doesn't mean I'll still be able to in 12 months... If that wasn't a factor, it would be a tough call!

    Probably the only way to know for sure which is the machine for you is to compare both in the flesh and pull a few shots!
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    My advice from experience and when talking with others, if you have narrowed it down and remain indecisive, go with your heart. You'll thank yourself later. You'll enjoy it more and won't be thinking about shoulda woulda coulda. I did that with my Lexi, and just recently with my Comandante, and don't regret my choices in the slightest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    That was my impression as well.

    Happy to be corrected, but if you remove the ability to run off tank from the equation, the biggest difference will be the group - narrower but deeper La San Marco on the Izzo vs 58mm E-61 on the Profi. If using your existing baskets, tampers etc is desirable that might be a factor for you - though of course you can always sell them or have tampers machined down.

    When I was looking at a second-hand Alex Leva I came across a few mentions of portafilter blowouts due to choking; apparently easily solved with the right portafilter and perhaps some machining of the lugs, so perhaps not a real factor. Still, never heard of this issue at all with any E-61 group machine. OTOH, many people claim that the deeper basket on the Izzo is more forgiving and leads to shots with more body.

    Personally I love the look of the cutouts revealing the spring on the LSM group; I know some people don't.

    For me, the requirement to use an external tank and pump killed the appeal of the Izzo - I rent and move often so even if I can run a filter in one house doesn't mean I'll still be able to in 12 months... If that wasn't a factor, it would be a tough call!

    Probably the only way to know for sure which is the machine for you is to compare both in the flesh and pull a few shots!
    I like the idea of a "standard​" e-61 head that I have read much about and would mean better availablity of accessories I imagine. There does still seem alot of good said about the Izzo head but that is something that I never quite confirmed​ until right now. Thanks.

    I also read in the Alex thread about the couple of blowouts that I never saw in the 800 thread and was a bit concerned. Dont think modifying new a machine to not fail is appropriate. Though can appreciate that this is likely isolated; still no no mention on the 800.

    I also was unaware that there was actually cutouts on the 800. I thought that was just a promo as I have not seen either machine in person. (I am on the central coast NSW so as far as I can tell local stores are non existent)



    I appreciate all the posted comments here so far. The learning curve is still quite steep atm and just discussing differences is quite helpful.

    Does anyone know if the machines have a similar pull resistance/weight. And another thing I note that the Izzo is about 10kg heavier. Any ideas why, bigger boiler, thicker steel, etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukemc View Post
    Valexia if your able to get around the temp plumbing issue (if it was my choice!) no pump noise and I've had some amazing shots from one
    Interested to know what tipped you to Valexia ?
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    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    I don't own one sadly as I haven't been able to plumb a machine. I have had shots from one at store. I would choose it because it's silent. Deeper basket seems more forgiving and also because it's beautiful (eye of beholder). I'm not a fan of the profitec machines. Again personal choice. Never owned one and never been tempted. I've owned more machines than I care to think about and one of my factories has to be the Alex dual boiler. Brand snobbery I know but they are really solid and produce great shots.

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    i do think I make a better coffee with a leva than I can with any e-61 machine on the market and for that matter, I'd back a PID controlled San Marco group over Slayer and LM as well and I'd gladly swap my Slayer at home for one if I was allowed.

    There's not a week where someone doesn't rate what comes out of my Valchiria leva as the best they've ever had. I generally suggest that they need to get out more. 😄

    I have played with the CMA leva group and agree with Luke that the 55 mm group of the Valexia Leva is a ripper.

    How to plumb with no tank? All that's required is a Flojet or similar pump and a water reservoir.

    My advice is that rather than read us here, sample a true leva in the metal and in the cup. You won't look back and you'll pull better than e-61 shots consistently and with ease.

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    Fully agree with Chris's comments. The San Marco group head is just awesome. Chris said I would never look back and he was 100% spot on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi again,
    They're both great machines.
    The Profitec Pro 800 is a beauty and if bench space didn't become an issue I would have kept it.
    This thread contains multiple pictures, videos and owner reviews: Profitec lever displayed at World of Coffee - what do you know about it?
    Thanks. I have read that thread (several times) and checked out all the pics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    i do think I make a better coffee with a leva than I can with any e-61 machine on the market and for that matter, I'd back a PID controlled San Marco group over Slayer and LM as well and I'd gladly swap my Slayer at home for one if I was allowed.

    There's not a week where someone doesn't rate what comes out of my Valchiria leva as the best they've ever had. I generally suggest that they need to get out more. 😄

    I have played with the CMA leva group and agree with Luke that the 55 mm group of the Valexia Leva is a ripper.

    How to plumb with no tank? All that's required is a Flojet or similar pump and a water reservoir.

    My advice is that rather than read us here, sample a true leva in the metal and in the cup. You won't look back and you'll pull better than e-61 shots consistently and with ease.
    Do you have any more info on the flojet set up? Also would love to get in a check one of these machines out, but am geographically challenged​

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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    The flow jet system gives main like constant pressure from a bottled water supply. 20L water bottles used in office water supplies are the common solution.

    It also allows in line plumbing of a filtration system.

    The easy answer when you don't have a mains water supply close.

    Cheers

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    Hi 3M,
    I have had my Alex Leva for over 3 years and would buy the same machine again tomorrow - even if I won the Lotto!
    They are simple, robust, well built, low maintenance and make the best coffee's I have ever had
    As others have said - go and look at and try the machines you like prior to deciding
    Cheers
    Dave

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    Truth is there isn't a bad choice with these 2 machines. You may prefer the subtle differences in appearance of one or subtle flavour differences between shots they produce from their different brew groups. They both have great reputations.
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    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    cough cough, have you considered a londinium L1 (i have one for sale at a very reasonable price in the for sale section!)

    Honestly tho, take a quick holiday to melbourne and try both, it will be worth it in the end when your spending that much on a machine

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    Killem, not sure where you are located on the Central Coast, but JetBlack have a Profitec on display in their showroom in Frenchs Forest, not much more than an hours drive from many parts of the Central Coast. It is only one of your choices but at the bare minimum you have seen 50% of your choices and can compare to that. For something which will live in your bench for 10 years worth the effort. Not sure if there are any Valexia on display in Sydney.
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    Post

    Thanks guys, I will try an organise a trip to Jet black for a test run. It's not to far and the smarter thing to do

    Appreciate all the info. Has been quite helpful. I think this
    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Truth is there isn't a bad choice with these 2 machines. You may prefer the subtle differences in appearance of one or subtle flavour differences between shots they produce from their different brew groups. They both have great reputations.
    maybe the point I needed reinforced to help with the decision as, while I would prefer the Izzo for no other reason than "just because", the Profitec just makes​ more sense for me at this time and I am unlikely to be disappointed with either choice.

    But I will visit Jetblack and see if I don't backflip on that choice again when I see them, and more importantly have a crack at them myself.

    Thanks again for all the input.
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    Killem, I was there 2 weeks ago and while the Profitec was on display ready to pull shots I can't recall seeing the Izzo. It may be worth calling ahead and if the Izzo is on a shelf in the warehouse they may pull it down so you can see it to compare. Then again it may be in a corner on display and I missed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Dave View Post
    Hi 3M,
    I have had my Alex Leva for over 3 years and would buy the same machine again tomorrow - even if I won the Lotto!
    They are simple, robust, well built, low maintenance and make the best coffee's I have ever had
    As others have said - go and look at and try the machines you like prior to deciding
    Cheers
    Dave
    Hi 3M

    I was at the same juncture this time last year comparing both the Alex Leva and The Pro 800, I opted for the Leva particularly after reading (and sifting) through the Leva thread.....and on aesthetics.

    Nearly 1 year on with the Leva, hand on heart I can say I agree with Dr Dave wholeheartedly.

    Being in Brisbane I did not have the opportunity of "trying before buying" the Leva (as I think was the case for Dr Dave who is further north in Kweenzland) and simply took the plunge. When it arrived it was clear all online images simply did not do this machine justice, it's a beautiful bit of kit as I expect the Valexia would be.

    On average our Leva pushes out between 6-8 of the best shots per day and she's deadly silent.

    Ultimately what you're looking for is a machine that should provide you with consistent shots year on year with minimal maintenance and I think both brands will do this, it just comes down to your personal preference
    Last edited by RichardC; 4th May 2017 at 03:56 PM. Reason: typo
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    Thanks guys. My dilemma in this decision was clearly now that I just wanted the Izzo. Honestly if it wasn't​ for the need to run the machine stand alone for a few months I would have already purchased​ the Izzo.

    Fact is though, I don't have a viable, cheap easy solution to operate the Izzo not plumbed-in​ for a few months while I complete the renovations, so unless someone can offer a decent option here, the Profitec just makes more sense right now; and as said earlier it's not like I am going to be disappoint either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post
    Thanks guys. My dilemma in this decision was clearly now that I just wanted the Izzo. Honestly if it wasn't​ for the need to run the machine stand alone for a few months I would have already purchased​ the Izzo.

    Fact is though, I don't have a viable, cheap easy solution to operate the Izzo not plumbed-in​ for a few months while I complete the renovations, so unless someone can offer a decent option here, the Profitec just makes more sense right now; and as said earlier it's not like I am going to be disappoint either way.
    The Izzo and the Flojet would solve your problem and you could then sell the Flojet once you're done with it. Viable, cheap and easy!

    For mine, choosing an espresso machine is like choosing a partner. You have to live together (hopefully for quite some time), so it's good to try and get it right.

    Look for long-term harmony rather than short-term fixes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I recently supplied one to a new small Cafe in Sandringham
    Is this the only machine they'll have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    The Izzo and the Flojet would solve your problem and you could then sell the Flojet once you're done with it. Viable, cheap and easy!

    For mine, choosing an espresso machine is like choosing a partner. You have to live together (hopefully for quite some time), so it's good to try and get it right.

    Look for long-term harmony rather than short-term fixes.
    .....And there's your solution, right there!

    You're bringing back memories of the agony I suffered prior to pulling the Leva!

    Clearly you want the Izzo.

    Honestly, you need to look looooong term far beyond your renovations. If your "settle" on a machine that will suit you temporary "here and now" needs you will regret this a few months after the dust settles from your reno.

    Moving the flojet on makes perfect sense and it will put you out of your misery.
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    PS.....

    Rather than "settling", a cheaper temporary solution would be for you to wander off to your local cafe and buy take-aways for you and your tradies until your reno is completed and then buy your preferred machine.

    If you're in the midst of a reno, your judgement may well be clouded.

    I could not think of doing anything worse than spending $ on kit that you will not be satisfied with in a few months time.

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    I can't imagine the sale of a flojet is particularly easier. I would think this a fairly specific device with limited demand

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    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post
    I can't imagine the sale of a flojet is particularly easier. I would think this a fairly specific device with limited demand
    I sold one on here a couple of years back from memory it sold the same day I put it up
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post
    I can't imagine the sale of a flojet is particularly easier. I would think this a fairly specific device with limited demand
    If one came up, I'd probably buy it immediately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post
    I can't imagine the sale of a flojet is particularly easier. I would think this a fairly specific device with limited demand
    You sound like you have a lot on your mind, possibly with the reno and want to defer this (no shops on the Central Coast, Flojet hard to sell, etc). The Flojet can be had from $250, I would think one 10 weeks old for $150 would sell within a month or so - very easily, so unless storage or cashflow was a problem it would sell. Maybe wait till the reno is done and you can be happy getting the machine you want with no extra expenses. All dimensions are available online for planning for installation during the reno.


    As this is going to be a purchase you are planning for and allowing space for before seeing, I would consider swinging by JetBlack next time you are in Sydney and trying one. I was keen on a lever for so many reasons and had virtually decided on a Profitec 800. Tried the 800 and realised the lever would have been a big ask for my 5'2" & 52kg wife, especially at 05.30. I thought about a lower bench, extended lever, etc until the realisation that the only likely way was two machines. Not enough funds, bench space, patience with my wife, etc for me to go that way so unless a big change happens it is unlikely an 800 will grace my bench

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    These are both great machines but I'm clearly biased towards the Profitec Pro 800 as I have owned and lived one, and because I sell them
    I recently supplied one to a new small Cafe in Sandringham, Victoria. They open in about 2 weeks. When they do I'll be posting the address and pics. They will also be the first Cafe to sell K Bean coffee so I'm excited and rapt!
    Cheers, Paul
    K Bean - Dream Machines
    Yes we get it Paul you sell these machines which you let us know at every opportunity. Understand sponsors are essential but please don't try to make every post into a sale

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wouldn't see temporary use of a flojet as a blocker - but if it is, you could always defer the purchase.

    It does sound as though your heart is saying Valexia. Personally I'd still do my due diligence, but you shouldn't discount that factor either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    if you ask nicely I'm sure Nik will let you have a play.
    If he's that quiet that there's time to let customers play with his equipment I don't think he'll be in business too long

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    I visited Jet-black on Saturday​ and got to have a go at the Profitec Pro 800. Quite a nice machine, simple to use and if nothing else has reinforced the fact I want a lever machine.

    As to the decision, I liked the Profitec, my wife liked the Profitec, we also really like that it has a powder coated black option that looks good and would really suit. I would definately be taking it in the black; if I was.

    Problem is, I do still just want the Izzo, well what I wanted was a Izzo pompeii, don't know why they changed that name, makes it confusing now, anyway, the Valexia is basically the Pompeii in a home friendly package or so i believe​. That was where I was headed originally, and most here seem to suggest its the better (edit - maybe not better as such, preferable perhaps) machine and reaffirmed my desire for it.

    Had this thread been overwhelmingly​ in support of the Profitec I'm sure that's where I would have gone and likely been happy, but it's clearly the Izzo I want.

    So I think it's time to make that happen.

    Thanks for conversation folks as mentioned before, much appreciated.

    Cheers
    K
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    Congrats, nice to be getting exactly what you wanted and know you have made the right choice
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    Senior Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    G'day K!LL3M,

    It's good to see you have worked through the decision process. Have a chat with Antony of Casa Espresso. If black powdercoat rocks your boat, there is no reason why you can't have it. It just takes a little time and some cold hard-earned...

    Enjoy the leva journey. In all likelihood, this will be the last machine you buy.
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    Thanks folks

    Can someone tell what the rod is just behind the lever on the Izzo? Its not on the Profitec.

    tmp_28216-852122765.jpg
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    Its the flux capacitor. It helps with minimising bad shots because you can repeat the shot at will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post
    Thanks folks

    Can someone tell what the rod is just behind the lever on the Izzo? Its not on the Profitec.

    tmp_28216-852122765.jpg

    https://youtu.be/eqcvMtYHpBA?t=7m46s
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    Brilliant video, thanks for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
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  40. #40
    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Is Izzo...Is Awesome
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    Hi 3M,
    You wont regret it
    I agree with Gav. The Izzo IS Awesome! Very very happy with mine
    Cheers
    Dave
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    Not required I don't think Paul. I understand that the OP has purchased his choice of machine from Antony.

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    Yep, purchase made, thanks all. Now about this filtration stuff.. haha ...no seriously, do I really need need it?

    Maybe I need to start another thread (or search for one) but I'm guessing from my brief reading last night the answer is yes and it looks like the Brita c150 purity is the required/recommend setup?
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    Hi 3M,
    Yes you definitely do need filtration
    Many of us (me included ) use a Brita C150 which works well
    I have plumbed mine in to use it as the fridge filter and taken a "T" off that line to the Leva
    Works well
    There is lots of information in this site previously on water filtration
    Cheers
    Dave
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    yep, definitely get a filtration system and the brita c150 is a great product.
    You have spend so much on a quality machine, so dont skimp out on a good filtration system for it.
    Small price to pay to keep you machine and yourself happy
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    Hi Killem

    congrats on the purchase and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the machine once you have had a play.

    just out of curiosity what grinder are you using with the machine?

    Cheers

    Alastair

  47. #47
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    Hi Killem

    congrats on the purchase and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the machine once you have had a play.

    just out of curiosity what grinder are you using with the machine?

    Cheers

    Alastair

    A grinder? Do I need a grinder too? Dam this is an expensive experience. Haha

    Seriously though, I have a Mazzer Mini E I purchased last year because I hated the sunbeam grinder I had throwing coffee everywhere

    And yeah will give some thoughts when it eventually gets it here. Thougj only as the average person who can no longer stand shit coffee and needs at least 2 before leaving home in the morning

  48. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Abbotsbury
    Posts
    60
    So.... Has she turned up as yet ? The suspense is killing me

  49. #49
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    17
    Not yet, had to get some ducks lined up first, but should be here next week....

    Is just the polish stainless. Since it's just a powder coating I will evaluate that at a later date and get done locally of decided.

    Keen for it to arrive now though (desperate may be a better description) ��

  50. #50
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,502
    For me (at least)...

    The all-over matt black coatings are very underwhelming.
    Combos that utilise original polished s/s with judicious use of matt black and perhaps some complimentary timber here and there, look a lot better I reckon...

    Each to their own of course.

    Mal.

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