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Thread: Rocket R58 vs Profitec 700 vs ECM Synchronika

  1. #51
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    I posted this in an old forum instead of this page so pls excuse me..

    Hey guys! new to the forum and coffee.. can call me a 6 months old barista rookie. I own a brevilla barista express to start, time for an upgrade. I did some research over the past month and decided on a dual boiler machine. Loved how they work, otherwise next step is commerical.. been reading a ton on this here and I had initially set my mind on the the Rocket R58, however I saw alot of people say positive things on the Profitec 700 and then having spoken to a local store, the manager recommended the EDM synchronica. I like that the profitec & synchronica have shot timers, In my current machine (Breville barista express 860) I used a timer on my phone.. anyways time for an upgrade.. I am leaning towards the synchronica but you guys here seem to want me to save some money ) Im again lost as to whether I should go back to the R58 or end up with this newly proposed models.. Mind you, maintenance is a big issue where I live as I would have to send the machine for service in Italy or closest country but at the same time, I am a mechanical engineer and we work on big boiler, I am sure one of my technicians can help me )

    Appreciate your feedback and opinions and thanks for the wonderful info shared on here!

    Cheers,

    Omar
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  2. #52
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    I have a sync. I don't think you will be disappointed with either it or the Pro 700. The only downside I see with all these machines is the lack of scheduled start/stop times. I love to be able to get up in the morning and the machine is already up to temp and ready for use, to do this I need to use one of those plug in timer things which to me is a disappointment as even my $2k cheaper Breville had this functionality. My other gripe is the shot timer needs to have a delay on it as soon as you finish the shot it clears and goes back to zero, would be good to have a 10 second delay on the clearing function. Other than that, great machine
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  3. #53
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    Hey! Thanks for your message & support. Im happy to be joining the forum and contributing even after buying the machine.

    Ya so the start/stop would have been nice for sure.. It seems to be a very close call between all 3.. My only issue which I didn't understand as to why everyone sees a preference for the valves to be spring loaded on the profitec? What advantage would it have.. the lever on the synchorinica seems quiet simple and a cool, easy to use feature.

    Also the synchornica can clear tall cups without issue - I thought that was cool. Also synchornica comes with a full proper tamper and the portafilter is angled for easier resting on the table.

    Im trying to really see if there is any maintenance issue with either? Also are there any differences in steaming power / hot water nozzles between the 2?

    A final thing about the grinder, nobody has to buy the same brand grinder, sure it looks cool to match but it's not a must. For me personally, I have to go with a eureks that has a flat burr as opposed to conical because we have a lot of humidity here and it seems to work best using flat burr grinders ( said a few baristas to me ) really not sure this is true or not...

    This is a costly investment gents.. I have to get this right 😂


    Quote Originally Posted by bowser View Post
    I have a sync. I don't think you will be disappointed with either it or the Pro 700. The only downside I see with all these machines is the lack of scheduled start/stop times. I love to be able to get up in the morning and the machine is already up to temp and ready for use, to do this I need to use one of those plug in timer things which to me is a disappointment as even my $2k cheaper Breville had this functionality. My other gripe is the shot timer needs to have a delay on it as soon as you finish the shot it clears and goes back to zero, would be good to have a 10 second delay on the clearing function. Other than that, great machine
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  4. #54
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    Article on Synchronica.. seems to me water n steam valves spring loaded as well!

    The eyes are next drawn to a pair of new stainless steel joysticks with insulated “no-burn” wands, which make steam and hot water dispensing instant on and off. These spring loaded joysticks swivel on a ball joint for easy locking at any point on the rotation, and the steam power can be fine tuned for different steaming preferences by adjusting the steam boiler using the PID controller.
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  5. #55
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    I don't think steam power can be adjusted, temperature of steam can though.I have no issues with the sync wands, they work great and don't leak etc. very easy to use
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  6. #56
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    Couple of quick points...

    1. On my (v1) Synchronika, there's a ~5 sec delay after stopping the shot before the display clears and goes back to showing boiler temps.

    2. The profi rotary knobs use 'anti-crush' valves; the valves don't rely on the torsion of you turning the knob to press the washer and block the valve, so the washers don't wear as fast and you don't need to turn them increasingly hard to prevent drips as they wear. This is a differentiator with the Rocket and most other machines with rotary knobs afaict.

    The toggle levers on the Synchronika work differently; the levers are on a self-centering ball joint and there's nothing to torque - when they are in the off position they are, well, off!

    They only have two "set" positions, but aren't binary - you can manually control the steam pressure by holding the lever between the two positions. But I don't really know why you'd want to, unless steaming a very small quantity of milk. If you regularly change between 500ml and 150ml this might be a point in favour of the Profitec.

    Adjusting the steam boiler temp will also influence the quantity, temperature and wetness of the steam. I'd only change that if you find you're getting insufficient steam for big quantities (which you won't) or that it takes too long to steam (which you might if you regularly make 2+ large milk drinks at once and are a bit impatient). Personally I've dialed down the steam temp a dash to give better control as I only steam ~150ml milk at once most of the time.

    3. These machines are pretty simple in terms of electronics, which minimises maintenance and failures... hence no microcontroller to switch on/off at set times. A Belkin Wemo is like fifty bucks, and the ability to turn on/off remotely is very handy. Also works well with Google assistant and my Google Home (though the response "ok then, I'll turn the caffeine off" is a little depressing).

    4. The ECM portafilters are very nice; I have a naked that I use 90% of the time, and two standard ones that get used if I split shots for a group, and backflushing. If you like the ECM aesthetic, you won't find a better-looking machine without going an order of magnitude more expensive 😉

    The inclusion of a usable tamper and stand for small cups (Neither of which came with the v1) is icing on the cake.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    2. The profi rotary knobs use 'anti-crush' valves; the valves don't rely on the torsion of you turning the knob to press the washer and block the valve, so the washers don't wear as fast and you don't need to turn them increasingly hard to prevent drips as they wear. This is a differentiator with the Rocket and most other machines with rotary knobs afaict.
    Doubt this to be the case with quality machines such as the Rocket or others...
    I have owned BFC machines since 2009, a HX and then a Dual Boiler, and in both cases the Steam/Water Valves are Spring Actuated and not Needle and Seat. The latter is more commonly found on Single Boiler Dual Purpose machines such as basic Lelit offerings and Rancilio Silvia for example...

    Mal.

  8. #58
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Omar: Take it from an ex R58 owner (me) that's the Pro 700 and Synch are clear winners.
    I think Profitec, ECM and rocket are the top 3 as brands but for the dual boiler category the 2 Germans kill Rocket.
    I went from R58 to pro 700. I love it madly!
    JT
    Can you outline what is so much better about these 2 machines over the rocket? I'm of the opinion that at this end of the market, if your SO likes the look of it and you can afford it and are happy to give the bloke selling it your money, buy it.

    Some people like the classic look of the rocket and don't want to clutter the face with digital distractions, others will find it to be a hassle having to plug in the pid to change temps. Some will be happy to take the stainless boilers of the ecm, others may like the tried and true copper boiler in the rocket.

    Me? I have a BFC and although I do envy the rotary pump of the machines you've listed, I love the look, the cavernous drip tray and the satisfying way you can flick the taps and they'll spin home themselves. I don't think I'd trade it for any of the above machines to be honest. Beware the echo chamber and go with the machine you like the look of that can be purchased from someone you trust
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    from my limited research, It seems that the R58 has a lot of solenoids vs the other 2. Messy interior for personal maintenance / spare part change. Those are the 2 major ones that come to mind. About solenoids going bad, in my own field of mechanical fire protection, plumbing, boilers etc.. if you get good quality solenoids they should never go back. very rarely but in the world of coffee who knows why people think so.. but I take it that people are coming with this through experience either at work, friends, previous machines etc.. so the opinion must be respected. This info didn't come out of nowhere.

    in my region, the rocket is the heavily marketed machine and they've done a fantastic job. The profitec/ECM, German espresso machines.. unheard off - haha so I shall struggle with this over here for sure but I am set on one of them.

    The digital timer is very nice.. not sure why people wouldn't prefer it, and in the case of the synchornica, it's matching with the frame so you can't really see it but thats a branding things anyways of rocket classic vs other machines...

    The synchornica also has a bigger boiler.. I think that's something that's welcomed but then we get the issue of the levers in the hot water / steam valves...



    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    Can you outline what is so much better about these 2 machines over the rocket? I'm of the opinion that at this end of the market, if your SO likes the look of it and you can afford it and are happy to give the bloke selling it your money, buy it.

    Some people like the classic look of the rocket and don't want to clutter the face with digital distractions, others will find it to be a hassle having to plug in the pid to change temps. Some will be happy to take the stainless boilers of the ecm, others may like the tried and true copper boiler in the rocket.

    Me? I have a BFC and although I do envy the rotary pump of the machines you've listed, I love the look, the cavernous drip tray and the satisfying way you can flick the taps and they'll spin home themselves. I don't think I'd trade it for any of the above machines to be honest. Beware the echo chamber and go with the machine you like the look of that can be purchased from someone you trust
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  10. #60
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    Interesting.. especially this belkin wemo.. Its funny how breville oracle has a timer and all these machines dont! shame.. but we do have a solution now.

    Thanks for the info on point no 2!
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  11. #61
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ikazooz;609855]from my limited research, /QUOTE]

    It looks like you've gone overboard in your internet research and it is starting to get counter productive..

    Be interested to see the response from someone that has owned both machines.
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  12. #62
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    from my limited research, It seems that the R58 has a lot of solenoids vs the other 2. Messy interior for personal maintenance / spare part change. Those are the 2 major ones that come to mind. About solenoids going bad, in my own field of mechanical fire protection, plumbing, boilers etc.. if you get good quality solenoids they should never go back. very rarely but in the world of coffee who knows why people think so.. but I take it that people are coming with this through experience either at work, friends, previous machines etc.. so the opinion must be respected. This info didn't come out of nowhere.

    in my region, the rocket is the heavily marketed machine and they've done a fantastic job. The profitec/ECM, German espresso machines.. unheard off - haha so I shall struggle with this over here for sure but I am set on one of them.

    The digital timer is very nice.. not sure why people wouldn't prefer it, and in the case of the synchornica, it's matching with the frame so you can't really see it but thats a branding things anyways of rocket classic vs other machines...

    The synchornica also has a bigger boiler.. I think that's something that's welcomed but then we get the issue of the levers in the hot water / steam valves...
    Same is true here re: marketing - the Rocket has been the 'default' choice for years and still is so outside of Coffeesnobs to some extent. The growth in popularity in ECM and Profitec is more organic - or at least that's my take. Agree 100% with the previous poster that you shouldn't be swayed by marketing or even opinion - but I'd be a bit more pragmatic and say put together a shortlist, compare features and other factors and if you can inspect each of the contenders before making a choice. I wouldn't buy an espresso machine based primarily on aesthetics; fortunately all the machines in this category look pretty great.

    Definitely agree re: looks - though the new Rocket is quite pretty too. I do think there are much better options to have a PID control and maintain a 'clean' appearance, like the Profitec Pro 800 where it's hidden behind the drip tray (which makes sense for that machine as a shot timer isn't much use on a leva unless you install an additional microswitch and cam somewhere I guess...). But yeah - I wouldn't be without a shot timer now, and it's not like the Synchronika PID control looks like someone stuck a 1980s scientific calculator into the panel like the control panel on the Vesuvius for example 😉
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    The R58 was a great machine but the PID was horrible. I think it was designed to set temp then go back in a drawer but in reality you have to keep it hooked up to change from brew boiler only to having both boilers on. A wonky drip tray was another gripe. I changed to a Pro 700 this year and it's an upgrade. Visible PID, shot timer, easy switching from 1 to 2 boilers, better steaming, quieter pump and everything is just more refined and solid feeling. The Synchronika was also on my short list but I prefered the look of the Pro 700. The 2 German machines definitely win. I hope this helps you with your big $ decision buddy.
    JT
    Found it.

    The only thing on your list applicable to me would have been the quieter pump and the subjective build quality assessment.
    Not a poor reflection on your review but more so indicating that your reasons for selecting one machine over another are different to what i deem important.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    but I'd be a bit more pragmatic and say put together a shortlist, compare features and other factors and if you can inspect each of the contenders before making a choice. I wouldn't buy an espresso machine based primarily on aesthetics; fortunately all the machines in this category look pretty great.
    That shortlist already exists Posted it on the first page of this thread!
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  15. #65
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    tell me about it...

    On to the grinder folks....


    [QUOTE=trentski;609868]
    Quote Originally Posted by ikazooz View Post
    from my limited research, /QUOTE]

    It looks like you've gone overboard in your internet research and it is starting to get counter productive..

    Be interested to see the response from someone that has owned both machines.
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  16. #66
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Hi mate, already done so many posts back
    ...and in the thread title 😉

    Just responding more to the post saying (paraphrasing) "just buy the machine you like the look of" on the precious page; I think it pays to be more analytical than that (as you are) ☺
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    Thank you all for your kind comments
    The spreadsheet will of course be updated with all relevant comparison information.





    Could you kindly explain how these work/differs from each other? Am happy to update the spreadsheet as long as I understand what it is
    If it's considered off topic, feel free to send me a private message
    Awesome work here tanax...any chance of adding the profitec pro 500 to the spreadsheet

    Thanks in advance
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  18. #68
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    Does anyone know the heat up time for each of these lovely works of art. Maybe if you could advise heat-up time to pull a shot vs. recommended time to let the temp stabalise before pulling a shot.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Awesome work here tanax...any chance of adding the profitec pro 500 to the spreadsheet

    Thanks in advance
    Hi madaxle,

    Thank you for your kind words!
    I actually had the Pro 500 on the spreadsheet before but in Sweden, the Pro 500 is about as expensive as the Technika IV Profi/Switchable and the Technika is just a better machine in almost every way so I removed Pro 500 from the list.

    I can certainly add it back if you guys are interested
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Don't underestimate the Pro 500....

    Personally I would choose a Pro 500 (vibe) over Tech Profi (Rotary), even if priced the same. You can read reasons I'm a fan here

    I sell both and margins are the same. I prefer the Pro 500 and recommend it unless plumbing is a requirement.

    It's worthy of your spreadsheet

    Cheers, Paul
    Keep in mind that your AUS model comes with professional pressure stat from SIRAI, not found on regular Pro 500, as well as what appears to be some thermal siphoning mod
    The advantage, to me, that the Tech Profi is rotary pump (quieter, also allows for plumb in option) and SIRAI pressure stat. I've also always been more fond to ECM styling than Profitec, it just adds more details Highly subjective though!

    Regardless of my personal opinion, I'll see if I get the time to add the Pro 500 back to the spreadsheet
    Marcus
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    Keep in mind that your AUS model comes with professional pressure stat from SIRAI, not found on regular Pro 500, as well as what appears to be some thermal siphoning mod
    The advantage, to me, that the Tech Profi is rotary pump (quieter, also allows for plumb in option) and SIRAI pressure stat. I've also always been more fond to ECM styling than Profitec, it just adds more details Highly subjective though!

    Regardless of my personal opinion, I'll see if I get the time to add the Pro 500 back to the spreadsheet
    Marcus
    Not strictly true I'm afraid. Sirai is standard on Pro500 incl the overseas models.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYmwoACLuQc&t=607s

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    Keep in mind that your AUS model comes with professional pressure stat from SIRAI, not found on regular Pro 500, as well as what appears to be some thermal siphoning mod
    The advantage, to me, that the Tech Profi is rotary pump (quieter, also allows for plumb in option) and SIRAI pressure stat. I've also always been more fond to ECM styling than Profitec, it just adds more details Highly subjective though!

    Regardless of my personal opinion, I'll see if I get the time to add the Pro 500 back to the spreadsheet
    Marcus
    Also note the ECM Tech Profi in Aus is actually a Mater pressurestat*, and its up to the retailer as to whether they do the thermosyphon mod or not as its not done by the importer. At least it wasn't when I bought my Technika.

    But of course OP isn't concerned with the Aus market.


    *not that this is a problem. It's not like Sirai is the only logical option, Maters work perfectly fine, and cheaper to replace when they pop.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Also note the ECM Tech Profi in Aus is actually a Mater pressurestat*, and its up to the retailer as to whether they do the thermosyphon mod or not as its not done by the importer. At least it wasn't when I bought my Technika.

    But of course OP isn't concerned with the Aus market.


    *not that this is a problem. It's not like Sirai is the only logical option, Maters work perfectly fine, and cheaper to replace when they pop.
    Hey readeral, what the real benefit to thermosyphon mod. Would it be something you do on both the ECM Sync & Profitec 700 models?

  24. #74
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Hey readeral, what the real benefit to thermosyphon mod. Would it be something you do on both the ECM Sync & Profitec 700 models?
    Improved thermostability in HX machines; so no - not applicable to DBs
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  25. #75
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Just to be picky...

    It allows thermal stability at a lower temperature while retaining higher steam pressure.

    Madaxle, almost all e61s have a thermosyphon that cycles water through the grouphead to keep it hot so that your extraction happens at a consistent temperature. With dual boilers, the thermosyphon will operate only off the brew boiler, so wherever it is set will be just right for brewing. With HX machines, because the brew and steam temps are related by heat transfer, and utilising only one boiler, the temperature of the thermosyphon water (and so the grouphead) is directly impacted by the overall boiler pressure. Often this means machines will run hot. The thermosyphon restrictor slows the return of water, giving it more time to cool out of the boiler before it reaches the grouphead. That way, the higher steam pressure can be maintained while also ensuring the grouphead is at ideal temperature. The alternative is lowering the boiler pressure, which weakens the steam capability of most machines.

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    Thanks Readeral / Matt - so no massive need on the DBs above

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaxle View Post
    Thanks Readeral / Matt - so no massive need on the DBs above
    Not just no need - no point!
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  28. #78
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    Haha, not exactly what I meant - I'm saying if you buy a DB, there's no need and no point to a thermosyphon mod. Just set your brew temp with the PID and awaaaaayyyyyy we gooooo! 😉
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggoosen View Post
    Thanks everyone so far for the updates.Issue i have is that i live in Radelaide, meaning i cant get to the the major shops to check these out first hand.

    Unless someone knows where i can look at these in Adelaide.
    Complete Café Services. Portrush Rd, Glenunga. Got a Profitec 700 through them. Very helpful. Threw in some extra bits. Loving my machine. Definitely worth a visit.

  30. #80
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    My R58. I have some regrets after 18 months that I did not purchase it through an enthusiastic sponsor. The unit was new out of the box - well that was after they gave me a returned unit (it was very dirty). They did apologise. Well, that is not the regret. My regret is it did not have a predelivery check and adjustment or tune up. So it have not been easy with it.
    I don't like the steaming pressure, stretching the milk is a pain, either too fast or too slow depending in which nozzle I use. I am also not over impressed with the taste. Yes, I know it is probably that I have not got it set right!

    I now have resuscitated my old Giotto Premium (08). This unit came from a previous sponsor (sadly I can't mention his name) who gave the unit a predelivery check and adjustment. It is an HX, delivers fantastic steam and a great taste.

    So I am sort of stuck in no man's land in more than one way as I live in perth. Good suppliers but no masters in the state.
    Just a bit sad.

  31. #81
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    Hi Dumiya. Have you tried taking your R58 to Dimmatina in Osborne Park? I have used them for parts for my R58 and found them very helpful, I'm in Perth and find the lack of hands on, face to face, technical isolation a bit frustrating on times too. Thankfully we have CS and the caffeine addicted web for help. Maybe we can help each other? Good luck mate.

  32. #82
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    Hi noonar, yes, the R58 is due for a service so they can just check that it is working correctly. I will go to dimattina.

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    Anyone upgraded the tip on their Synchronika? I'm into day 3 of new ownership and the steaming power is very underwhelming even in a small jug. I've bumped the boiler up to max temp, makes bugger all difference. My Giotto had far more power and even it wasn't great. If a 4 hole tip is the answer then why not provide two tips Mr ECM? And why not provide a naked portafilter as standard instead of the single which 90% of owners wouldn't use other than for backflushing.
    Maybe I'm suffering buyers remorse but aesthetically the Rocket is far "prettier", even the wife took one look at it and described it as big and ugly. The one thing however you can't dispute is the build quality, which is,after all, why I bought it over the R58. I'm not saying the R58 is poor in that department just not the same attention to detail in some areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    Anyone upgraded the tip on their Synchronika? I'm into day 3 of new ownership and the steaming power is very underwhelming even in a small jug. I've bumped the boiler up to max temp, makes bugger all difference. My Giotto had far more power and even it wasn't great. If a 4 hole tip is the answer then why not provide two tips Mr ECM? And why not provide a naked portafilter as standard instead of the single which 90% of owners wouldn't use other than for backflushing.
    Maybe I'm suffering buyers remorse but aesthetically the Rocket is far "prettier", even the wife took one look at it and described it as big and ugly. The one thing however you can't dispute is the build quality, which is,after all, why I bought it over the R58. I'm not saying the R58 is poor in that department just not the same attention to detail in some areas.
    @Robbo1111
    You should get in touch with your vendor. They should send you out a free replacement tip with the correct hole size.
    There was an issue with a batch of synchronica steam tips, where the hole was just a touch too small, and was causing slight resistance.
    (hi guys, first post here... Been lurking for a while)

  35. #85
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    The steam pressure should drop significantly if there is good steam flow. If the steam pressure is not moving much then it sounds like there is an issue with the tip. I suppose it could be a seal or a valve too not open sufficiently but the tip issue sounds plausible.

    I wouldn't worry though it is simply a matter of boiler size, element wattage and pressure that gives the steaming potential and the tip is the rate determining part of the equation. I had the opposite issue with the Wega, the five holed tip steamed too quick making it difficult to control so I swapped out for a four holed tip which is better.

  36. #86
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    I have ECM Synchronika at home and Rocket Giotto at work, Rocket definitely has better steam power. Saying that, Synchronika's definitely enough, though might take a touch longer to stretch the milk fully to temperature and texture.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfinger View Post
    I have ECM Synchronika at home and Rocket Giotto at work, Rocket definitely has better steam power. Saying that, Synchronika's definitely enough, though might take a touch longer to stretch the milk fully to temperature and texture.
    @greenfinger

    You're in a good position to judge since your have access to both..
    Would Robo1111 comment '... Steaming power is very underwhelming even with a small jug'...
    be the difference in the nature of the 2 machines, or faulty steam tip which might not have been replaced yet?

  38. #88
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    The stats favour steaming on the ECM 2 litre versus 1.8L 1400W versus 1200W assuming information is correct

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2jewel View Post
    @greenfinger

    You're in a good position to judge since your have access to both..
    Would Robo1111 comment '... Steaming power is very underwhelming even with a small jug'...
    be the difference in the nature of the 2 machines, or faulty steam tip which might not have been replaced yet?
    My Rocket was a two hole tip (larger dia holes than the ECM) and was roughly double the speed but poorer quality microfoam. The ECM tip definitely isn't faulty but the holes are tiny, maybe 0.5mm. Ill persevere for a bit longer and either drill out the holes or go 4 hole. The vendor wasn't aware of any issues but did say there were multiple 2 hole options, plus 3 and 4 hole options

  40. #90
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    My Rocket was a two hole tip (larger dia holes than the ECM) and was roughly double the speed but poorer quality microfoam. The ECM tip definitely isn't faulty but the holes are tiny, maybe 0.5mm. Ill persevere for a bit longer and either drill out the holes or go 4 hole. The vendor wasn't aware of any issues but did say there were multiple 2 hole options, plus 3 and 4 hole options
    If that's accurate then 0.5mm is too small. There are other factors that will have a little influence too, but I'd reckon that holes should be a minimum of 0.8mm depending on how many there are.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    My Rocket was a two hole tip (larger dia holes than the ECM) and was roughly double the speed but poorer quality microfoam. The ECM tip definitely isn't faulty but the holes are tiny, maybe 0.5mm. Ill persevere for a bit longer and either drill out the holes or go 4 hole. The vendor wasn't aware of any issues but did say there were multiple 2 hole options, plus 3 and 4 hole options
    There were some Synchronika users late 2016 to early 2017 who had complained about the steam tip.
    It turns out that a certain batch of those 2 hole steam tips were not drilled big enough, and as a result it was causing resistance to what should normally be a powerful steam performance.

    I'm not sure if yours is one of those tips, and judging by your purchase date, it shouldn't be.
    But I have a feeling that it could be from an older stock, and also by the fact that your vendor had no knowledge about it leads me to suspect so.

    ECM was notified about it and have since replaced those tips, which by the way, took a while to clarify because they look ok and does actually steam, but not allowing the machine to steam in the way intended.

    At least, the same known problem here in the UK have been rectified by a certain vendor by sending out replacement of correct fitting tips. Existing customers had them sent out, and all remaining stock had also been replaced.

    Hope it helps

  42. #92
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    Is there a serial number range that we refer to for checking tips that are too small diameter?

    Thanks,
    Mark

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratman View Post
    Is there a serial number range that we refer to for checking tips that are too small diameter?

    Thanks,
    Mark
    Not that I know of...

    If a small pitcher is taking you longer than 40 seconds, then it's suspect.

    Working properly, it should be in the range of early 20's to early 30 second range

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2jewel View Post
    Not that I know of...

    If a small pitcher is taking you longer than 40 seconds, then it's suspect.

    Working properly, it should be in the range of early 20's to early 30 second range
    I measured mine last night, 0.8mm, so not as small as I thought.
    The one positive is frothing very small quantities, say for a piccolo, is easy.
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    I measured mine last night, 0.8mm, so not as small as I thought.
    The one positive is frothing very small quantities, say for a piccolo, is easy.
    I reckon mine has the smaller holes, but since 90% of the time I steam milk it's for a single piccolo I'm in no rush to swap it over!

    I understand ECM have a few new steam tip designs in the works; I might grab one to try when they hit our shores.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    I reckon mine has the smaller holes, but since 90% of the time I steam milk it's for a single piccolo I'm in no rush to swap it over!

    I understand ECM have a few new steam tip designs in the works; I might grab one to try when they hit our shores.
    well I can report that my steaming issues are over. Fitted another two hole tip, from ECM, this one has the larger diameter holes. I had the option of two hole or four hole, I think two is as much power as I need. The micro-foam quality is the same with the new tip but much easier to get.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    well I can report that my steaming issues are over. Fitted another two hole tip, from ECM, this one has the larger diameter holes. I had the option of two hole or four hole, I think two is as much power as I need. The micro-foam quality is the same with the new tip but much easier to get.
    Good to hear Robbo

    It's always nice when people come back to report that the issue has been solved.

    Happy ending!

    By the way, was it replaced for free, or did you have to buy it?

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2jewel View Post
    Good to hear Robbo

    It's always nice when people come back to report that the issue has been solved.

    Happy ending!

    By the way, was it replaced for free, or did you have to buy it?
    i had to buy it. I hope the vendor conveys my displeasure to ECM as the original tip is clearly inadequate for anything other than a piccolo

  49. #99
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    You need one of those sproline steam knife things only $129

  50. #100
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    Anyone have the details on the improved hole size?

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