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Thread: Synesso MVP Hydra 1 Group, thoughts?

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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Synesso MVP Hydra 1 Group, thoughts?

    Over the last year or so I've been contemplating going all out and buying a Synesso MVP Hydra 1 Group, now that I finally am ready to go ahead I thought I'd get your help and ask you all for your thoughts and possible suggestions.

    I like the look and function of the Slayer and love the look of the Kees Van Speedster, but my conclusion is the Hydra is functionally a level above these? It sure isn't as good to look at.

    I currently own a slightly modified GS3 MP that I do really enjoy using everyday, but I think I'm ready to try a different system mostly out of curiosity.

    I've recently started roasting at home too, which may be fun to play with profiling or it may confuse me. I like the thought of the Synesso being as complicated and as simple to use as you like it to be. Having a volumetric mode is great for constancy which I value.

    Thank you.

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    Whats the advantage over a vesuvius?
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    looks wise id take the slayer or the speedster which is what i am thinking about, but if i had the gs3, i doubt i'd even consider an upgrade.
    I notice it requires a 20amp circuit (which i assume you must have?)
    Are you able to go try one, its the one thing i would definitely want to do before taking the plunge.


    I do know one thing though, if you do decide to go down that path, my hands are up high for that lovely gs3 of yours
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    I like the look and function of the Slayer and love the look of the Kees Van Speedster, but my conclusion is the Hydra is functionally a level above these? It sure isn't as good to look at.
    Agree re Hydra a level above re pressure profiling sophistication (Speedster I think is none and Slayer alters flow not pressure I think).
    Other than pressure profiling - I think it is about what look you prefer.

    What is your driver? What do you expect to get out of your new machine?
    Looks to me, from your choices, that you are after pressure profiling and want to work with that?

    Temp wise, it's not clear to me whether the Slayer/Hydra provide any substantial benefit over a GS3.

    I would buy the Speedster - classic espresso machine and art - with yellow stripes on the sides.

    I would not take advantage of the flow/pressure profiling aspects, so that also helps to rule out Slayer and Hydra for me.

    My view was that the Slayer and Hydra were just trying to reproduce the benefits of the pressure profile of a Lever Machine, so I bought one of those.
    Ideally, I'd have a two group Izzo Leva.

    Good article on pressure profiling here: http://www.jimseven.com/2011/02/08/c...ure-profiling/

    Good post on possible benefits of pressure profiling here, which I though put a case for taking it up: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ds-t29380.html
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    I'd go a Speedster with the Idro-Matic pressure profiling upgrade by a mile. It is an iconic piece of design.




    There's no way to sugar coat this: that Synesso is really ugly. Looks like something from Soviet Union.
    Last edited by herzog; 19th July 2017 at 07:16 PM.

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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I'd go a Speedster with the Idro-Matic pressure profiling upgrade by a mile. It is an iconic piece of design.




    There's no way to sugar coat this: that Synesso is really ugly. Looks like something from Soviet Union.
    Is the mod you mentioned a factory fitted option or aftermarket? I can't watch the video at the moment I'm overseas and internet is very slow. Thanks for your insights.

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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Whats the advantage over a vesuvius?
    Saturated group maybe?

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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    looks wise id take the slayer or the speedster which is what i am thinking about, but if i had the gs3, i doubt i'd even consider an upgrade.
    I notice it requires a 20amp circuit (which i assume you must have?)
    Are you able to go try one, its the one thing i would definitely want to do before taking the plunge.


    I do know one thing though, if you do decide to go down that path, my hands are up high for that lovely gs3 of yours
    The 20 amp circuit isn't a worry, but it may be if I ever tried to sell.

    I guess I'm just looking at getting something that is next level and want the features of a Synesso. I wonder if there is anything else in the category to consider?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlMac View Post
    Agree re Hydra a level above re pressure profiling sophistication (Speedster I think is none and Slayer alters flow not pressure I think).
    Other than pressure profiling - I think it is about what look you prefer.

    What is your driver? What do you expect to get out of your new machine?
    Looks to me, from your choices, that you are after pressure profiling and want to work with that?

    Temp wise, it's not clear to me whether the Slayer/Hydra provide any substantial benefit over a GS3.

    I would buy the Speedster - classic espresso machine and art - with yellow stripes on the sides.

    I would not take advantage of the flow/pressure profiling aspects, so that also helps to rule out Slayer and Hydra for me.

    My view was that the Slayer and Hydra were just trying to reproduce the benefits of the pressure profile of a Lever Machine, so I bought one of those.
    Ideally, I'd have a two group Izzo Leva.

    Good article on pressure profiling here: http://www.jimseven.com/2011/02/08/c...ure-profiling/

    Good post on possible benefits of pressure profiling here, which I though put a case for taking it up: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ds-t29380.html
    I'm a bit of a gadget man and love the complex-simplicity that the Synesso brings on one hand it seems a manual machine, but can quickly turn into an auto volumetric. I love industrial quality stuff and look for tough reliable products. I hoped that the Synesso would bring that too. I love the looks of the slayer and speedster, but don't know if I would be happy with the more manual approach thus the reason I don't see myself with a lever machine. My thoughts are that I like the idea of an upgrade, but I doubt it will make that much difference in my hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    Is the mod you mentioned a factory fitted option or aftermarket? I can't watch the video at the moment I'm overseas and internet is very slow. Thanks for your insights.
    Factory option
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Factory option
    Thanks I'll have to track down some more info cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    wonder if there is anything else in the category to consider?
    Strada single group?


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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Strada single group?

    I think you've got me, I'm emailing for the Kees Van Der Western idro-matic price list for ordering.

    So do you manually adjust the knob on top as you pour the shot? Sorry for the ignorance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    Saturated group maybe?
    And on the fly pressure profiling? Vesuvius can't do this I don't think? Sounds like you're heading towards the modded KVDV Speedster. That thing looks awesome. Of all the other machines mentioned if I was in a position to be shopping in this market I'd be looking at the Strada first, Slayer second, or maybe a high end lever. Keep us up to date with how you go Jono, will be very interested to see what you get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    And on the fly pressure profiling? Vesuvius can't do this I don't think? Sounds like you're heading towards the modded KVDV Speedster. That thing looks awesome. Of all the other machines mentioned if I was in a position to be shopping in this market I'd be looking at the Strada first, Slayer second, or maybe a high end lever. Keep us up to date with how you go Jono, will be very interested to see what you get.
    I find the strada looks to similar to an unmodified GS3 I think it would end up needing to go to Spect or the like for detailing.

    What's the main benefit of the strada?

    And what is it your not a fan of when it comes to the Kees?

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    I find the strada looks to similar to an unmodified GS3 I think it would end up needing to go to Spect or the like for detailing.

    What's the main benefit of the strada?

    And what is it your not a fan of when it comes to the Kees?

    Thanks.
    It's mostly aesthetics to be honest. I've never dug too deep into the capabilities of machines in this price range as they're well beyond my means. A Specht customised Strada would look awesome. That mod on the Speedster looks good, but as much as the Speedster is a good looking unit I've never been a big fan of the dinky little lever. When you see it in action it looks and sounds a bit tinny sometimes. This is just from watching videos, it might not be so bad in the flesh, and just my personal opinion.
    As far as operation goes again I'm no expert, but there's many in the know out there are starting to say that pressure profiling on non-lever machines is a waste of time and what I've read about this is sounding logical to me. So I'd be more inclined to be looking at a lever or something like the Slayer or Strada that can control flow. Again, just my fairly uneducated opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    It's mostly aesthetics to be honest. I've never dug too deep into the capabilities of machines in this price range as they're well beyond my means. A Specht customised Strada would look awesome. That mod on the Speedster looks good, but as much as the Speedster is a good looking unit I've never been a big fan of the dinky little lever. When you see it in action it looks and sounds a bit tinny sometimes. This is just from watching videos, it might not be so bad in the flesh, and just my personal opinion.
    As far as operation goes again I'm no expert, but there's many in the know out there are starting to say that pressure profiling on non-lever machines is a waste of time and what I've read about this is sounding logical to me. So I'd be more inclined to be looking at a lever or something like the Slayer or Strada that can control flow. Again, just my fairly uneducated opinion.
    I'll get a chance to use the Kees and the Synesso soon. Hopefully it will help me decide. Thanks for your input.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    I'm a bit of a gadget man and love the complex-simplicity that the Synesso brings on one hand it seems a manual machine, but can quickly turn into an auto volumetric. I love industrial quality stuff and look for tough reliable products. I hoped that the Synesso would bring that too. I love the looks of the slayer and speedster, but don't know if I would be happy with the more manual approach thus the reason I don't see myself with a lever machine. My thoughts are that I like the idea of an upgrade, but I doubt it will make that much difference in my hands.
    Looks like a Synesso is the most likely outcome.

    But there's no substitute for trying things out. Best way to decide.
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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    I think I'm failing for the Speedster, the only thing that really bothers me is that they install a hot water knob that is redundant, I know it's for symmetry, but the wand faces inwards towards the group so that's not symmetrical.

    Does anyone know if a mod has been done just to put a chrome cap on the end of the water knob instead of the full fitting?

    Also I wish it was volumetric, but it's that asking to much?
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    What a piece of art!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    I think I'm failing for the Speedster, the only thing that really bothers me is that they install a hot water knob that is redundant, I know it's for symmetry, but the wand faces inwards towards the group so that's not symmetrical.

    Does anyone know if a mod has been done just to put a chrome cap on the end of the water knob instead of the full fitting?

    Also I wish it was volumetric, but it's that asking to much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    I think I'm failing for the Speedster, the only thing that really bothers me is that they install a hot water knob that is redundant, I know it's for symmetry, but the wand faces inwards towards the group so that's not symmetrical.

    Does anyone know if a mod has been done just to put a chrome cap on the end of the water knob instead of the full fitting?

    Also I wish it was volumetric, but it's that asking to much?

    you know, i have looked at this machine in photos so many times, and never noticed the way the hot water wand sits. It is very odd indeed.
    As for the non operational hot water knob, i think it would look even more odd, if it were removed and an end cap placed in its spot. May have to photoshop it out to see what it looks like

    not sure were you are located, but maybe talk to the coffee machinist (a sponsor on here) about the mods you are after
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    you know, i have looked at this machine in photos so many times, and never noticed the way the hot water wand sits. It is very odd indeed.
    As for the non operational hot water knob, i think it would look even more odd, if it were removed and an end cap placed in its spot. May have to photoshop it out to see what it looks like

    not sure were you are located, but maybe talk to the coffee machinist (a sponsor on here) about the mods you are after
    Yeah good idea, I'll speak to him. I should spend some time with it first and then see if it truly annoys me or not.
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    I'm probably the only one that thinks the Speedster is one ugly machine Hydra, or better yet, Slayer are amazing looking!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    Yeah good idea, I'll speak to him. I should spend some time with it first and then see if it truly annoys me or not.
    i would love to read your thoughts on the speedster compared to the gs3 when and if you decide to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
    I'm probably the only one that thinks the Speedster is one ugly machine Hydra, or better yet, Slayer are amazing looking!
    I don't mind commercial looking products, but I'm not sure if it's too industrial for a domestic kitchen? The newer MVP Hydra models do like a bit better with the added trim pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    i would love to read your thoughts on the speedster compared to the gs3 when and if you decide to get it.
    It is funny you say that because, in a lot of ways it is the most similar of the choices to the GS3, if I could have the function of the Synesso in the Speedster body it would be an easy decision.

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    So I got to have a play with the Synesso and the Speedster last week. My thoughts are a little muddled, but the Synesso would be my choice of machine to want to work behind and the Speedster for looking at, so I've decided to wait and just be patient with my GS3 for now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
    So I got to have a play with the Synesso and the Speedster last week. My thoughts are a little muddled, but the Synesso would be my choice of machine to want to work behind and the Speedster for looking at, so I've decided to wait and just be patient with my GS3 for now.

    no no no, you will talk yourself out of it doing it this way.
    I know of someone (PICK ME, PICK ME) who will give the gs3 a very loving home, and then you can quickly replace it with the Synesso.
    Never let the brain rule over the heart....BAD MISTAKE

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    JohnA is completely right. you've started an enterprise which was emotional (happy with GS3 but want to try something else for varieties sake) and now are attempting to test the hearts desire thru a prism of rationality. if you can even get close to affording it, then commit and resolve!

    i for one would be fascinated to use something which was volume based and profiling is the bees knees.

    can i ask out of interest though if you have looked at the decent espresso machine? i'm not suggesting that the quality/longevity/aesthetics are comparable. however it is out soon and it is quite innovative in what it offers, particularly from a profiling perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
    no no no, you will talk yourself out of it doing it this way.
    I know of someone (PICK ME, PICK ME) who will give the gs3 a very loving home, and then you can quickly replace it with the Synesso.
    Never let the brain rule over the heart....BAD MISTAKE
    Oh no I don't need this kind of encouragement, haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    JohnA is completely right. you've started an enterprise which was emotional (happy with GS3 but want to try something else for varieties sake) and now are attempting to test the hearts desire thru a prism of rationality. if you can even get close to affording it, then commit and resolve!

    i for one would be fascinated to use something which was volume based and profiling is the bees knees.

    can i ask out of interest though if you have looked at the decent espresso machine? i'm not suggesting that the quality/longevity/aesthetics are comparable. however it is out soon and it is quite innovative in what it offers, particularly from a profiling perspective.
    To be completely honest I haven't kept up to date with the Decent machine, I'll do some research on it, thank you.

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    Jono, I also was going to suggest the Decent Espresso machine earlier but thought it didn't remotely come close to the aesthetics or durability of any of these machines. It is infinitely variable, might be worth running one for 3 months ( or maybe forever) as your 'lab' machine to see what variables are important to you ( flow rate, volumetric, variable pressure, etc) then buy a work of art with those capabilities - or if the novelty wears off. I am posting to let you know the last price, since dissappeared off their site, was some A $1300 for the base model, throw away money compared to your selection. I am sure you would get 60% resale after 3 or so months. Very cheap way to try new variables and experiment compared to the all in cost of selling and buying a new machine.

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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Jono, I also was going to suggest the Decent Espresso machine earlier but thought it didn't remotely come close to the aesthetics or durability of any of these machines. It is infinitely variable, might be worth running one for 3 months ( or maybe forever) as your 'lab' machine to see what variables are important to you ( flow rate, volumetric, variable pressure, etc) then buy a work of art with those capabilities - or if the novelty wears off. I am posting to let you know the last price, since dissappeared off their site, was some A $1300 for the base model, throw away money compared to your selection. I am sure you would get 60% resale after 3 or so months. Very cheap way to try new variables and experiment compared to the all in cost of selling and buying a new machine.
    Thanks for the response also, it really does look fascinating and the fact it does flow control is very impressive. Some very interesting products on the market are emerging.

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    Synesso MVP Hydra 1 Group, thoughts?

    I've finally decided on and ordered a new machine, and it should arrive in about a month, I can't wait.

    Thank you everyone for your input and help with this tough decision.

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    And we'll all just have to sit here in suspense for a month until the new photos appear in the 'snobs gear gallery' thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    And we'll all just have to sit here in suspense for a month until the new photos appear in the 'snobs gear gallery' thread?
    Yeah, I just confirmed with the factory the shipping date, then I have to wait even longer for it to be delivered locally, so late September is the expected time frame. Thanks for your help recently level3ninja.
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    Jono it would be very nice if you would tell us what is coming. I'm basically living thru you and it would be great if you could take responsibility for that

    Anyway my guess is that you are getting the Speedster with IdRis technology. Why? Because I looked at it today and it is so crazy beautiful and awesome I don't know why you wouldn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    Jono it would be very nice if you would tell us what is coming. I'm basically living thru you and it would be great if you could take responsibility for that

    Anyway my guess is that you are getting the Speedster with IdRis technology. Why? Because I looked at it today and it is so crazy beautiful and awesome I don't know why you wouldn't.
    Sorry Mr Gray, I agree with you, but you'll all have to wait like I do, haha.

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    based on this thread i have examined in detail now the kees speedster and the slayer. the speedster with IdRis is a thing of great complexity and beauty. however, i only recently came to understand what the slayer does and so i have a new appreciation for it.

    it is rather fascinating surely that these pump based machines are becoming so much more versatile. we can dynamically change pressure (kees) or flow (slayer).

    so for Jono_Willmer I have a question now, how will you start out with this machine? i would have thought you'd want like 4 kg of a specific type of bean roasted exactly the same way just so you can reduce your variables slightly?

    also you mention the GS3 is modified. in what way? have you already been doing a bit of manipulation of temp/pressure on the GS3 so you're in good shape to utilise these extra dimensions your new machine will give you?

    i've got a new machine coming (nothing as fancy as you Jono) and so these sorts of issues are on my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    based on this thread i have examined in detail now the kees speedster and the slayer. the speedster with IdRis is a thing of great complexity and beauty. however, i only recently came to understand what the slayer does and so i have a new appreciation for it.

    it is rather fascinating surely that these pump based machines are becoming so much more versatile. we can dynamically change pressure (kees) or flow (slayer).

    so for Jono_Willmer I have a question now, how will you start out with this machine? i would have thought you'd want like 4 kg of a specific type of bean roasted exactly the same way just so you can reduce your variables slightly?

    also you mention the GS3 is modified. in what way? have you already been doing a bit of manipulation of temp/pressure on the GS3 so you're in good shape to utilise these extra dimensions your new machine will give you?

    i've got a new machine coming (nothing as fancy as you Jono) and so these sorts of issues are on my mind.
    You definitely raise a few important questions and I think one of the keys to the answer lies in what you have said above "reduce your variables". This is the issue with all these machines and one of the reasons I've decided to choose the one I did.

    The GS3 is only modified for looks, and the steam lever. It is plumbed in so I have a 3 bar pre infusion then have it set to 9 bar pump pressure(I could reduce this).

    The Slayer is by far the most interesting, I am yet to truly understand this system, but I think in the right hands it would be immensely powerful for extracting subtle flavours. To me it is the stand out in the way it manipulates the water and coffee interaction.

    I don't know how I'll start out with the machine, maybe just learning to pull shots till I can get some consistency, then start to tweak things from there. Though roasting at home with a Behmor means that I'll be forever chasing my tail in terms of roast profiles(not able to have 4kg of exactly roasted coffee).

    I can't wait to see your new machine and I bet your excited too, congrats on whatever it is and I look forward to hearing about your experiences MrGray.

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    Jono! I can't wait til you get this new machine. But, to help me wait, can we see a photo of your modified GS3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    Jono! I can't wait til you get this new machine. But, to help me wait, can we see a photo of your modified GS3?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    Jono! I can't wait til you get this new machine. But, to help me wait, can we see a photo of your modified GS3?
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    thanks Jono. looks great, a very nice setup. gs3 looks pretty super cool but whatever you bought it's going to have even more presence on that bench i'd say.

    i was amazed at how heavy the synesso was by the way when i was looking at it's specs. i guess they are all next level prosumer machines and the weight reflects that. my back is not so good and getting the LMLM into the car for a service was nearly a disaster (jet black have good parking and a hospital trolley to help with that which is nice). so anyway, hope you've got some strong backs to help on the day it arrives and needs setup.

    also with the gs3 did you have it plumbed in or not? i thought i read a review once where it was implied that the line pressure available for the plumbed option was a big positive for pre-infusion.

    also have you ever compared the two grinders on the same bean head to head? i'd be interested in your observations if you had.

  45. #45
    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgray View Post
    thanks Jono. looks great, a very nice setup. gs3 looks pretty super cool but whatever you bought it's going to have even more presence on that bench i'd say.

    i was amazed at how heavy the synesso was by the way when i was looking at it's specs. i guess they are all next level prosumer machines and the weight reflects that. my back is not so good and getting the LMLM into the car for a service was nearly a disaster (jet black have good parking and a hospital trolley to help with that which is nice). so anyway, hope you've got some strong backs to help on the day it arrives and needs setup.

    also with the gs3 did you have it plumbed in or not? i thought i read a review once where it was implied that the line pressure available for the plumbed option was a big positive for pre-infusion.

    also have you ever compared the two grinders on the same bean head to head? i'd be interested in your observations if you had.
    The GS3 is heavy, but it's not ridiculous two would make it easy to lift.

    The GS3 is plumbed in, my last two machines have been plumbed, I couldn't go back. Line pressure is good (3 bar), but only has 2 stage extraction. Having a Strada mod would be awesome.

    So is the LMLM your new machine or are you getting something else? They are incredible, can't imagine needing anything else.

    The grinders are quite different in design, but really the difference in taste isn't significant(that is in my hands). I like both and maybe at a pinch would choose the Mythos as the one to keep based on how clean it is(virtually zero mess).

    I'm very happy with this setup overall.
    _moby_ likes this.

  46. #46
    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Great news my machine is starting it's long voyage to Australia today, hopefully it will be in my house before the end of the month, but we'll see.

  47. #47
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    Hi Jono. I've been following this post and reading it makes me excited. I'm always excited to see others purchases and setups. Congratulation!! Remember to share some pix.
    Jono_Willmer likes this.

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    I don't it's me or everyone faces the same problem. I have recently done a DIY group head cleaning on my GS3 which includes removal of the shower / diffuser screen. When i put the screen back to the group head, I found that the screen is rotating freely even though i have tighten the diffuser screw. I would like to know whether that is normal or not?

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    Jono this is excellent news. I'd prefer it to arrive early next week but if we have to wait a couple of weeks so be it.

    For any new followers of this thread, Jono was mulling over buying one of 3 machines, 2 of which are made in Seattle I think and the other in Europe (i think). Cruelly he will not tell us which machine is coming, even though we offered him extraordinarily helpful advice with his purchase.

    I think it is reasonable to suggest that very soon Jono will be taking stuff to the next level!
    Jono_Willmer and matth3wh like this.

  50. #50
    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desachan View Post
    I don't it's me or everyone faces the same problem. I have recently done a DIY group head cleaning on my GS3 which includes removal of the shower / diffuser screen. When i put the screen back to the group head, I found that the screen is rotating freely even though i have tighten the diffuser screw. I would like to know whether that is normal or not?
    Depending on the type of screen you have, it's very normal, it's not a problem at all. Great to hear you're cleaning your machine keep it up.

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