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Thread: Best Machine approx $6k budget?

  1. #1
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    Best Machine approx $6k budget?

    Hi coffee snobs, I'm looking to upgrade my Rocket Giotto PPv2 and want something special. I'm starting to read but theres a lot of info out there so really interested in wiser people than me giving their thoughts.

    I'd like to spend under $6k but could go more (or less) for the right machine. My only restriction is try and keep under 35kg so I can move it, something that works and looks great and not the La Marzocco Linea Mini (as I don't like the look).

    Many thanks

    Steve
    Last edited by Thegrinch; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:14 AM.

  2. #2
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    What kind of drinks do you want to make? How often?

  3. #3
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    what about a lever machine?

  4. #4
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    Thanks for replies. Pretty much always FWs. Do you mean a Mini with a Lever?

  5. #5
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    Why are you upgrading? What do you want your new machine to do that your rocket doesnt? What would make a machine special?

  6. #6
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    Multiple reasons, partly just want something better, because I can, dual boiler and with a PID. Hope to improve my coffee flavour and consistancy.

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    Best Machine approx $6k budget?

    There is nothing that is going to produce a better tasting flat white than a rocket in good working order. I could produce a flat white with coffee made in an aeropress, a microwave to heat milk and a plunger to create microfoam that would beat most cafes, and your rocket would probably do better than that. You may choose to get something that looks better to you, but that is going to be harder for anyone to give you advice on. Best to look at photos of currently available machines and see what looks better to you
    artman, Brewster and Dimal like this.

  8. #8
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    I'm going to suggest something a little different but also significantly less than your budget. I think an interesting combo would be a Strietman CT-1 manual lever and a Welhome Pro automatic steamer. The cafe at work uses the steamer and it produces super high quality frothed milk, the version they have has a PID and stops frothing when desired milk temperature is reached.
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  9. #9
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    I would buy a La Cimbali Junior D. Rotary pump, superb build, volumetric dosing. 2.5 Litre boiler so a great size. Wickedly stable temperatures. These are about $5300. I nearly bought one but really it was just out of my budget.

    Grant

  10. #10
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Theres a new Izzo coming out later this year. Antony at Casaespresso can fill you in..

    https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo...o-iv-plus.html

    this with a great grinder will keep you under 6K and it looks great..



    Chris

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    hi. i meant a lever coffee machine like the olympia cremina for example. or the streitman kwantfm recommends above.

    i was in a similar position and bought a rick bond modded linea mini. this radically improved the coffee i was making as it improved consistency and let me get on with all the other variables. so i think you are right to imagine that a dual boiler setup will improve things. temperature stability is a big improvement to coffee making i think. however i'd also say once there you then start to think about temperature management and pressure management (profiling).

    i feel i was lucky to get the LMLM with mod because it got me pre-infusion and i think this also helps alot with consistency. but it has certainly led to me thinking about temperature and pressure and this has led to a lever machine.

    so maybe jump a step and go lever. or alter budget and go for a semi-auto machine that can profile and can manage brew temperature.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrinch View Post
    Hi coffee snobs, I'm looking to upgrade my Rocket Giotto PPv2 and want something special. I'm starting to read but theres a lot of info out there so really interested in wiser people than me giving their thoughts.

    I'd like to spend under $6k but could go more (or less) for the right machine. My only restriction is try and keep under 35kg so I can move it, something that works and looks great and not the La Marzocco Linea Mini (as I don't like the look).

    Many thanks
    Interesting comment on the LMLM, I thought the same. It is a style thing but I never saw the attraction.
    chippy and Thegrinch like this.

  13. #13
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    Thanks everyone so far, keep them coming. Didn't know the Izzo, will look into that more so good ideas. My concern with the olympia would be consistency relying on lever pressure, I am aiming to remove some variables to improve consistancy. I definitely don't want an semi/automatic machine, prefer to froth milk manually.

  14. #14
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    Thanks, if I was to jump budget what $ and machine are you thinking?

  15. #15
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    I agree its a great machine, but 2 boilers, a PID etc can improve things more including consistancy. I may also like to muck around with profiling in the future.

  16. #16
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    2 boilers and a PID doesnt improve your consistency of making a good flat white. Not at all.
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  17. #17
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    If you want better tasting coffee look at buying better beans, spending time improving your technique or buying a new grinder- which grinder do you use?

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    I've spent 20 years improving technique, buying and now also roast quality beans. I have a cunil el cafe tranquilio grinder which I will upgrade. Now I want a better machine. The Giotto is great, but there are better.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Hi Grinch, have you had a look at the Versuvius pressure profiling machine, they are around the $6K mark?
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  20. #20
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    Guys, he wants a better machine.

    For a range of reasons, and good luck to him.

    Not beans, not training, not a grinder. It's a hobby, there's pride of ownership and the joy of getting a new machine and getting to grips with it.

    My tip if you're looking to avoid LM would be the Profitec 700 or the ECM equivalent. Also the new Izzo looks like a good option too.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    The biggest noticeable difference you are likely to achieve is by switching to a spring lever machine. It's not for everyone though. But there are several great machines b/w $4000-6000. Some will breach your weight constraint, others won't.
    mrgray likes this.

  22. #22
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    what about a second hand GS3? they look pretty neat if you ask me and alot of reviewers indicate what you get the cup is very decent indeed.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Yeah I get it. While you won't necessarily get a remarkably better coffee, especially if it's a milk drink, you just want the whole process to be improved and more consistent. And sometimes you just want some nice shiny new stuff.
    You absolutely must get a better grinder. The Tranquilo is a piece of crap. I should know, I've got one. In fact I'd start with the grinder and base the rest of your buying around that. So if your budget is around $6k including grinder I'd be looking at some like the top end of these brands - Izzo Alex, Rocket, Bezzera, Profitec, ECM, La Marzocco. Can you plumb it in or does it need to be tanked? If you can plumb it in you could look at Rocket R58 or 60, ECM Synkronika or Elektronika, Bezzera BZ16, or stretch your budget to a GS3 seeing as you don't like the Linea Mini aesthetics. The other option of course is a high end spring lever like an Alex or Londinium. But first up spend $1000-2000 on a kick arse grinder that will last you years. Something in this range from Compak, Macap, Mazzer, Eureka or Anfim.
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  24. #24
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Seeing as you're looking for a high end easy and consistent to use machine you might want to have a discussion with The Coffee Machinist to see what his recommendations are and what magic he can work on what machines.


    Java "Fun with toys!" phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  25. #25
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    As above, once you get into the decent machine territory, the improvements would be very minor and all will make fantastic FWs given the right ingredients and techniques.

    So what I would do is visit shops and view/play with as many as possible. I find they generally look quite different in the flesh than in pics. You will know when you see something that is right for you, and almost guaranteed you wont be disappointed with performance at this price range.

    Happy shopping, I wish I had this dilema!!!

    Cheers
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  26. #26
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    Nothing like a vintage thoroughbred lever to get the juices going.

    Gaggia america 1 group
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  27. #27
    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Best Machine approx $6k budget?

    Second hand gs3, you'll get one that's been modded and might look better than stock with useful upgrades.
    LeroyC likes this.

  28. #28
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Good advice from Javaphile. Could be worth looking into.

    And the DE1+ Pro is in this price range.

  29. #29
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Seriously what Leroy said. Get a good grinder and you may find yourself happy with the rocket. When I had my super jolly I scoffed when someone here suggested that a big conical might improve consistency. Well not long after I got a Fiorenzato f63k and it was a game changer for me. Pretty close to set and forget, I now have an F71EK and I change the grind and dose maybe once a week at most. Granted, the weather hasn't changed here for 6 months but even when we were in Melbourne I rarely had to change the grind.

    A lot of options out there under 2k, you could get almost anything if you're happy with second hand.
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  30. #30
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    I agree, although the cunil seems pretty good, I even seen it in a few cafes. Biggest problem is dose can vary a bit but I'm sure that can happen a lot.

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    Thanks don't know that one, does it have a good reputation.

  32. #32
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrinch View Post
    I agree, although the cunil seems pretty good, I even seen it in a few cafes. Biggest problem is dose can vary a bit but I'm sure that can happen a lot.
    Believe me, the Cunill is terrible when compared to something new and superior. Add to my list of grinder makers above top end Fiorenzato and Quamar and you've got a fairly comprehensive list to choose from. If you're looking to improve ease of use and consistency then the single biggest gain will be found in a new grinder. I'm not saying don't buy a new machine as well, I'm just saying start with the grinder.
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  33. #33
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    Why is it so bad, I'm not keen to get the Fiorenzato or anything with a dose chamber where ground beans can sit for a day or 2, at least the cunill grinds the amount you use at that moment. I want something that does that so it's freshly ground each use. Can you bypass the dose unit on the Fiorenzato?

  34. #34
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    i can highly recommend the ACS Vesuvius.

    I have now had this machine for 10 months and I find it makes great coffee, easy to use and looks great.

    I don't mess with the profiles at all now they are set. but thats ok.

    I like;

    looks [ each to their own but i really like it]
    finish and build ( exceptional)
    shot timer
    quiet operation
    on/off timer. [ very quick warm up anyway ]

    My next and only upgrade would be the Kees VDW Speedster- just because it looks amazing.

    vesuvius.jpg sorry but cannot get this photo right way up!!!

    I had an Izzo Alex Duetto before that which was also good but Vesuvius is better. Ialso have the ECM grinder but do not recommend it: not as consistent grind as the Macap M4D which i prefer.


    Nice problem to have....
    Last edited by brettreaby; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:47 AM. Reason: add pic
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  35. #35
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    I have a doserless fiorenzato, I'm actually not really into the chute on it but it's what I have and I got it for a good price.

    If I had the dough I'd be inclined to go for a compak k10 fresh, a kony e or a macap m7d. Fortunately for my kids, my wife doesn't share my passion for blowing money on gadgetry, so the fiorenzato will remain on the bench until it's death, which judging from its build quality will be quite some time after my own
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  36. #36
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrinch View Post
    Why is it so bad, I'm not keen to get the Fiorenzato or anything with a dose chamber where ground beans can sit for a day or 2, at least the cunill grinds the amount you use at that moment. I want something that does that so it's freshly ground each use. Can you bypass the dose unit on the Fiorenzato?
    Yes of course. Get a doserless electronic grinder that has low grind retention. That way worse case scenario you'll have to purge a couple of grams from the chute before the day's coffee making. There are many options that fit this spec, but here's a few examples:

    Macap M4D
    Compak E6
    Eureka Atom
    Fiorenzato F4E

    Or if you want one that's still electronic, but has a funnel so you can access the chute for cleaning (which is not a bad idea), look at:

    Quamar M80E
    Rocket Fausto
    Mazzer SJ E or Major E
    Profitec T64

    All these grinders will be an improvement over the Cunill. Some more than others but they're all at least easier to use, probably a bit faster and some may even grind better.
    Thegrinch likes this.

  37. #37
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    The difference between a Rocket Giotto and a $6k machine may not be as big as you might think, esp in coffee flavour, even more so if you drink milk based coffees.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIOlsdDg_o

  38. #38
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    Thanks LeroyC, lots of options. I've been considering the Baratza Sette 270W. Seems reasonably priced and grind to a weight which, if it works as advertised would be great. Have any experience on this model?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by symphonie View Post
    The difference between a Rocket Giotto and a $6k machine may not be as big as you might think, esp in coffee flavour, even more so if you drink milk based coffees.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIOlsdDg_o
    Interesting, got to be honest, not my machine, thats a R58, not a giotto pp, and not very scientific, N=1 so I wouldn't take much notice of that.
    Last edited by Thegrinch; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:51 PM.

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