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Thread: Profitec Pro 800 Tips

  1. #1
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    Profitec Pro 800 Tips

    Hi Everyone,

    As the proud owner of a new Profitec Pro 800 i am looking for some advice from fellow owners (or anyone with experience!).
    So far I absolutely love the machine. The steaming power for milk is unbelievable and once I put it on a timer a good hour before I would normally pull a shot, it's far superior to any other machine I have ever used.

    I have mostly been using the triple basket to make a couple of coffees before work, single dosing between 21-22g (have varied it a bit to see the difference) and get a nice extraction of about 42-45ml in about 26/27 seconds - near on perfect and great tasting.

    Decided this morning to take out the double basket and dosed 16g, firm tamp, slightly finer grind and got an extraction of about 31ml in only 16/17 seconds. It was a little sour and under extracted. Fined up the grind a little and dosed 16.5, 31ml out and about 17 sec again. Both using a preinfusioin of about 7 seconds.

    Anyone willing to share their work flow or any other tips on using the double basket?
    My other thoughts were to continue using the triple basket, but at a lower dose weight. But this might make the puck too fine and the extraction too fast.

    Cheers!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    One very minor thing I found was that the steam and water knobs felt quite loose and just did not feel quite as good or smooth to operate as they should. My solution was to remove the knobs and put some Dow 111 on the threads and reassemble. This has resulted in much better ergonomics.

    I replaced the piston seals with a set of Cafelat silicon seals. They work extremely well and will be much easier to change when the time comes down the track as they are much more pliable.

    I also replaced the shower screen with an IMS 200 but if you buy new piston seals I see Cafelat have a new custom IMS 200 screen so you can get a seal and screen kit

    Not sure what temperature you have set it up to run with but I have settled on 120 after experimenting with different temperatures initially. On the odd occasion when a coffee is lighter or darker roast than normal I have adjusted by a few degrees to compensate.

    I always pull single shots with the naked portafilter and have settled on 16g as my standard dose adjusting grind to achieve the extraction required. I have found you can pull some very long pre-infusions and slow shots with great results. There is plenty of scope for experimenting and little risk of pulling bad shots.

  3. #3
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    Tanks Beanz.

    It's not even a week old, but I will keep an eye out for the Cafelat seals in 12 or so months time!

    You are on the mark for the steam knobs. The only thing that feels 'cheap' on the machine is the first 1.5 turns on the steam and hot water knobs as they are sprung loaded. Means that the first 1.5 turns is pretty loose and then have resistance once steam actually comes out.

    I have found that the grind settings are on the very fine side for my Mazzer super jolly. I don't think there is a problem with the mazzer as the burrs are just over 6000 shots in (so basically just broken in). But I have only just pulled out the double basket, so I will keep trying in the next few days.

    Cheers!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Not sure what machine you had before but if it was E61 you will be grinding finer.

    You will be preinfusing around 1.2 Bar depending on temp setting. With a fine grind you could preinfuse for 20 - 30 sec with only a few beads developing but lift the lever and the extraction will start immediately but it could be as long as 45 sec depending on your grind & dose. Sounds strange and breaks some preconceived ideas but in the cup it will vary between excellent and sensational.

    Use the naked portafilter to monitor how the shots develop, it will show up some interesting points for analyzing your shots and preparation.

    Varying tamping pressure did not have the impact I expected, I tamp quite firmly but have experimented with some light tamping and the variation is not as great as I expected.

    If your beans are good expect great crema and lots of tiger stripes. It is so much fun you will find yourself pulling shots just because you can !

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    I can attest to this, I bought some supermarket beans to play around with and probably pulled two dozen or more shots Friday night.

    I have had some success with extractions at the 45 sec mark, but it did go against the old 25-30 sec rule.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    I can attest to this, I bought some supermarket beans to play around with and probably pulled two dozen or more shots Friday night.
    As stated previously It is so much fun you will find yourself pulling shots just because you can !

    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    I have had some success with extractions at the 45 sec mark, but it did go against the old 25-30 sec rule.
    Throw away the rule book within reason, I am not suggesting 5 minute extractions but the traditional 25 - 30sec rule does not need to be adhered to with this machine. I would not have suggested this regime with my E61

    The standard guidelines will produce good shots but the slower extractions, say up to 20 -30 sec preinfusion & 30+ sec extraction are worth experimenting with depending on the bean and roast level and can yield some amazing shots.

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    Might sound crazy/stupid...but I am now pulling singles (LM single basket filling only the middle chamber) so I can have twice the fun and not get over-caffeinated! Taste much better than the VST baskets too(which I've invested a lot) for reasons I couldn't phantom.

    I had experimented quite a bit with the shot time too...always go back to ~10s preinfusion for a total of 40-42s pull. I've tried 3-5 sec preinfusion and then total of 25-30s pull. The longer pulls are sweeter, more balanced and taste riper with no sign of overextraction.
    Last edited by samuellaw178; 2nd October 2017 at 12:34 PM.

  8. #8
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    Had a few friends around this morning and used my peru beans which were a medium roast and well balanced. The consensus was a 40-45 second pull was better tasting than a 25-30.

    I haven't played around too much with preinfusion, I guess that is next!

    Why do you think the 40-45 second pulls are better on this machine? Even my pavoni I found the best shot time was 30 ish seconds.
    samuellaw178 likes this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    I believe Sam is spot on with his comment

    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    ...always go back to ~10s preinfusion for a total of 40-42s pull. I've tried 3-5 sec preinfusion and then total of 25-30s pull. The longer pulls are sweeter, more balanced and taste riper with no sign of overextraction.
    You wont go wrong with that formula and can use it as a base for experimentation with longer/ shorter extractions and varying dose and grind. Find what appeals to your palate, sounds like your friends were impressed so that is a good starting point.

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    No idea why it worked, but it works! Maybe it's due to the pressure profile, or maybe it's the declining temp...The preinfusion stage probably just sets up the puck and not much extraction is occurring (water is quickly saturated with solubles and couldn't take any more), so it's the actual flow time that matters. But it's all unsupported speculation (or pocket science as some say it)...

    Actually, I do similar pull profile with Portapresso Rossa and even the La Pavoni. Maybe give this a try on the Pavoni and you may find an improvement over what you already got!

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    No idea why it worked, but it works! Maybe it's due to the pressure profile, or maybe it's the declining temp...The preinfusion stage probably just sets up the puck and not much extraction is occurring (water is quickly saturated with solubles and couldn't take any more), so it's the actual flow time that matters. But it's all unsupported speculation (or pocket science as some say it)...

    Actually, I do similar pull profile with Portapresso Rossa and even the La Pavoni. Maybe give this a try on the Pavoni and you may find an improvement over what you already got!
    Unfortunately the wife demands the pro and the pavoni can't coexist - so naturally the pavoni has to go
    Very sad to see it out the door however. Got someone looking at it tomorrow, otherwise it will be offered to a fellow snob for a reasonable/fair price!

    What grinders are you guys using (with the pro)?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Using HG1...

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    Sorry don't mean to mislead - I was fortunate enough to pull a few shots off the Pro800(very nice lever) but don't actually own one. I use a Brugnetti Aurora Leva but very similar technique wise.


    Grinder(s)...used to own this mammoth - Compak E10 (for a few months)...


    Now - Monolith Conical..


    You may also see that the rice cooker(to the right) is a very important part of the family and is there to stay. No upgraditis on that!

    After posting this - just realize we need more Pro800 pictures in the wild!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    Sorry don't mean to mislead - I was fortunate enough to pull a few shots off the Pro800(very nice lever) but don't actually own one. I use a Brugnetti Aurora Leva but very similar technique wise.


    Grinder(s)...used to own this mammoth - Compak E10 (for a few months)...


    Now - Monolith Conical..


    You may also see that the rice cooker(to the right) is a very important part of the family and is there to stay. No upgraditis on that!

    After posting this - just realize we need more Pro800 pictures in the wild!
    All good! Should have opened this up to the commercial sprung lever community.
    samuellaw178 likes this.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz. View Post
    Using HG1...
    I like the commitment to using a manual grinder! Although the HG1 is a little different to using a lido or other hand held grinder.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    A nice modification so you can monitor extraction pressure on the Profitec 800

    https://youtu.be/mCWCBs_K6gU
    matth3wh likes this.

  17. #17
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    Nice!

    You know if it is a bolt on or is there some drilling involved?

  18. #18
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    Question for anyone with the Pro 800 (or the same group head).

    Looking into getting an IMS shower screen and replacing the seal between the portafilter and the group head. What size am I looking for? Have read all he E61 stuff should fit?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Nice!

    You know if it is a bolt on or is there some drilling involved?
    The lever is pulled apart and new machined parts replace some of the original parts. No drilling or machining. It is still under final development so not available for sale at this stage but from photos it appears that parts are in production.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Question for anyone with the Pro 800 (or the same group head).

    Looking into getting an IMS shower screen and replacing the seal between the portafilter and the group head. What size am I looking for? Have read all he E61 stuff should fit?
    The IMS shower screen will fit but the group seal is not E61. It is a 66 x 56 x 6 group seal. These are available from a CS sponsor Coffee Parts in Sydney. There is a silicon one in that size available now from Cafelat. I have tried them all but found the original rubber one to be the best fit and function.
    I have used E61 silicon group seals and found them to be excellent but on this group for some reason the silicon work well on the standard spouted portafilters but the naked handle seemed to bind and it just did not feel right. As I use the naked almost exclusively I stuck with the original seal. Just a slight difference in machining tolerances.

  20. #20
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    Get Paul Pratt's kit from Cafelat for 'modern lever group' which is Pro 800

  21. #21
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    Thanks Gents!

    Do you think the IMS shower screen is worth it on the Pro 800?

    And the seal I think I will replace as I have to tighten the portafilter well past 12 o'clock to get a good - machine is a couple of years old and sat on a bench the whole time so I think the seal has degraded/flattened slightly.

  22. #22
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    I'm impressed you're getting the portafilter past 12.00, I doubt I could get it past 3.00!

  23. #23
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I'm impressed you're getting the portafilter past 12.00, I doubt I could get it past 3.00!
    Daylight saving

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I'm impressed you're getting the portafilter past 12.00, I doubt I could get it past 3.00!
    Everyone is a comedian!....
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  25. #25
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    I have been playing with the Profitec Pro 800 for a few weeks now and getting a pretty standard shot of 16g in (with the double basket) and 40-41 g out.
    Does anyone have any tips for getting a slightly shorter/ristretto out of the machine?

    I have played with just taking the cup out before the shot has finished pouring.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    What's the problem with taking the cup away?

    If you shorten the pre-infusion, or increase the dose, you'll get less volume/mass in the cup, but it might not taste as good.

    If you are seeking a ristretto you are definitely doing the right thing. If you want to get all old-Italian about it, let the first few drops go into the tray as well (but this isn't necessary or even a good idea with most beans we roast these days)

  27. #27
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    No problem with taking the cup out early.

    Just looking for anything else on the spring levers to try

  28. #28
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    Decided to change the stock standard shower screen for the IMS E61 and the seal for the lever group silicon one. Getting it out was a bit of pain in the backside, but to my horror the underside of the shower screen was filthy!

    Grease everywhere - a little retained grinds and oils mostly mixed with the grease. Keep in mind the machine is about a month old!

    IMG_20171018_122128.jpg

    IMG_20171018_122111.jpg

  29. #29
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    In Paul Pratt's video showing installation of silicon piston seals he makes a point about how much grease to use, see from 3min 35sec into the video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbHi...XqeHxLjvfQrnkJ

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    Thanks Beanz, I will take a look and see how to do it when I regrease the piston. How often should you regrease? I was thinking every 6-12 months depending on use/the resistance I get.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Decided to change the stock standard shower screen for the IMS E61 and the seal for the lever group silicon one. Getting it out was a bit of pain in the backside, but to my horror the underside of the shower screen was filthy!

    Grease everywhere - a little retained grinds and oils mostly mixed with the grease. Keep in mind the machine is about a month old!

    IMG_20171018_122128.jpg

    IMG_20171018_122111.jpg

    You can actually do a short 'soft' backflush(no chemicals) with a blind portafilter (just don't lock it right in obviously, hold the portafilter handle....give it a bit of a wiggle......helps to keep the shower screen clean).

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Thanks Beanz, I will take a look and see how to do it when I regrease the piston. How often should you regrease? I was thinking every 6-12 months depending on use/the resistance I get.
    Service and maintenance is always preferable to repairs.
    My silicon seals have been in 12 months and your post prompted me to take a look and they were good as new and no evidence of any wear or damage on the seals, no build up of any residues.
    A quick wipe down and a smear of Dow 111 was all that was required. Less than half an hours work.

  33. #33
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    Iíve almost decided to buy Profitec Plus 700 and wondering what advantages the 800 has over the 700?

  34. #34
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    I forgot to say that other than when family and friends come to visit- I tend to make only one , maximum 2 flat whites a day.

  35. #35
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    I have had the Pro 800 for about 6 months and after a couple of weeks of playing with the machine and learning its nuances, I have been totally happy. Prior to the Profitec I had a La San Marco single group and a Faema too. The Pro 800 pulls tasty shots, steams milk to a silky micro foam texture, and I especially like its simplicity and functionality. I’m optimistic that I will get many years of use with minimal issues.

  36. #36
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    Debs6, the pro 700 and pro 800 are very different machines. Namely, the pro 800 is lever machine which is inherently different from a pump driven.

    I have the 800 and love it. But when I bought it even the salesman tried to talk me out of it because quote 'he wouldn't pull the lever all day long'. It isn't hard or tiresome, but the nuances are very different to a pump driven machine.

    Both however are at the extreme end and more than capable of pulling outstanding shots and steaming great milk.

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