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Thread: Living with Presso: ongoing review

  1. #51
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I just looked through that thread, I am twiddling my thumbs violently in anticipation.

    I was hoping you werent going to say it was a home job but then you did. Ill try the professional performance today and Ill decide whether Ill need to get a spare PF from Cameron.

  2. #52
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Ill be posting some photos (and hopefully video) soon of the Naked PF presso in action.

  3. #53
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Greg, about the pull-speed again.
    I was assuming a fine grind that was greater pressure than physically possible to pull quickly.
    I had a coarser than perfect grind, and to get a slow enough extraction, can compensate for the grind with a slower pull. Just a work around I think though, I think the finer grind is best solution.

  4. #54
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I dont mean to boast but I just got crema. Its not really the [suspiciously] tremendous quantities that I get on the big machine at the cafe but it was definitely there for a brief while.

    Beans were ground to turkish, which isnt a true turkish grind (because its from a machine) but is pretty darn fine. This made a really tough shot to pull, I even had pressure escaping through the top, so I reckon its time to move to the method Ben used in the vid above.

    It just made my day, I think I need the bottomless now...

  5. #55
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Well done.
    I found I get better results from over-adding water like Bens vid. Seems to build more pressure, and probably a greater amount of heat.
    I get a nice guiness effect that lasts a little while before the thick crema forms, eventually settling to a thin caramelly looking crema.

    I am going to be cheating on the Presso, going back to the Stovetop at the moment to try and master that a little more after the great tips in other threads. We have an international food day Wednesday after our office weightloss game was a success (I came 2nd, 7.3kg down in 10 weeks) so Im contributing coffee. Presso would take too long for most of the drinks most people will want, so I can have the stovetop going while also pulling specials on the Presso.

  6. #56
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Well, unfortunately by Tuesday, the crema had started to disappear and the smell that had so pleasantly surrounded my desk had moved to greener pastures. The coffee still tasted pretty good though, even on Wednesday I was left speechless after taking a quick sip.

    Cameron sent through some freshly roasted beans in the middle of the week but I didnt have a grinder so I bought a cheap manual one. So fresh, so flavourful, so freakin long to grind by hand...So Im going to step up to a Sunbeam EM0450 or similar.

    And, Ive also got a bottomless portafilter on its way soon too.

  7. #57
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I now feel if Im not getting a workout pulling the Presso, with muscles twitching afterwards, Im not doing my best for pressure :)
    I find over-filling the water Bens way gives me a better result than putting in the prescribed measurement, the only problem if Im not making a milk drink (being naughty and extracting all the water for some hope of getting most caffeine I can) when I make a double-espresso there will still be a heap of water in the basket, so make sure take it off of the presso while over the sink.

    Im trying to roast enough to be able to age some beans, see what they taste like after 1 week, 2 weeks etc. but I always end up using them sooner! Roasting more now, but will probably end up trying my first blend of Eth Yirg and Zambia Lupili.

  8. #58
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Bottomless portafilter arrived this morning.

    Mmm, tasty. I was actually hoping to have a coffee-free week (I have difficulty keeping up my coffee consumption over the weekend, so I was pretty short-tempered) but I went back to Merlo for beans again, which was kinda dumb. Im at the store and I say to the fella behind that counter that I wanted a finer grind than last time, so he says: "I think its smaller numbers mean a coarser grind, because I use about a 7 for the plunger and you got a 4 last time"...not really the best start. Anyways, long story short, I politely suggested he was wrong, which he admitted, and I got a finer grind than last time but unfortunately not quite fine enough. So Im going to go looking for a good price on the EM0480/EM0450 (cheers for that heads-up Sullo).

    I was quite pleased with how well it went. Despite not having the resistance Id like, my first pull was really quite nice. Still minimal crema (it was quite dark but with a finer grind it think itll work quite nice), the taste was very good, the bottomless PF gives this special je ne sais quoi. Ill try to contribute some pictures, with the current grinds I can probably pull off a one-handed pull...

  9. #59
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Try pack more coffee into the PF to max and pour more water into the reservoir to max and tamp down to max, it might increase the pressure as best possible for the grind.

  10. #60
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I did try that but theres a limit to the benefit that you can get from a really hard tamp. It does taste fairly nice, minimal sourness but misses a few of the flavours that only really come from a good torturing...

  11. #61
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    BUON GIORNO coffee snobs!

    Ive just been Googling around on the internet for naked portafilters. Expensive little buggers arent they :P *- cheapest one ive found is $75, and this place will also so cut your existing PF for $40, which aint bad. Where did u get yours Daveze?

    In my searches I also came accross "Naked Coffee" in Brisbane city who use Naked PFs and have an internationally acredited barrista, John Ronchi at the helm *:o. Sounds too good to be true...HOLY GRAILISH...perhaps there actually is a place in Brisbane that makes espresso, and not some sour, black stuff with pale white fuzz on top that you find in Brisys "best" espresso bars, I had a laugh. Aw, I hate to be negative, but its no exaggeration. Maybe they sell bottomless PFs at Naked Coffee.

    As for your coffee Daveze, whatever you do get the Sunbeam EMO480 and not the EM450. I got the EMO480 6 months ago for $160 at The Good Guys Oxley and it has been absolutely terrific. Alan at Coffee for Connoisseurs says it grinds as well as a Rocky, but at a fraction of the price - and he knows his stuff. It has fewer grind settings than the Rocky, but that isnt a big deal unless u wana win the world barrista championships or something *;D. As youve probably read on the net, the grinder is absolutly essential for a good espresso. The minute we got it, my Gaggia Carezza went from squirting out underextracted, crema-less shots to beautiful, almost pure, red-brick crema shots. If youre keen, ring up The Good Guys and quote my price and theyll probably match it for you.

    Ciao,
    Richy


  12. #62
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Check out Di Bartoli (see the sponsor list) for a naked portafilter.
    I think youll find theyre the same price.

    Before that though Id recommend removing the name of that site from your post before a moderator does it.
    There are site rules about non-sponsor references.

  13. #63
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Thanks for the heads up Thundergod - just changed it.

  14. #64
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Hi Richy,
    How come you recommend the EM0480 over the EM0450? I have both which is why I ask. The aesthetic 80 at home, and the functional 50 at work. Pressos brewing grind from both.

    PS: for naked PF, you can buy another PF and use a hacksaw with steel blade and cut the bottom off (aluminium PF so steel hacksaw blade will eat through it easily), then file the edge clean/smooth to avoid sharps injury.

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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Id also like to know why your preference is against the 450, my understanding is that its the same burr set, just a different housing.

    I got mine through Cameron from Presso, if you search spares on the website, theyre there as an option. Ive been to Naked Coffee, just before I decided that I had to have a naked PF. They summarised what I (and you) already knew, that theyre tough to find but theres a place that you can send your current PF to and theyll cut it off for you.

  16. #66
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Whilst not an owner of either - from memory of past comparisons...

    the EM480 has more steps (presumably smaller as well) than the EM450....

    and to get the most out of any espresso machine you need to be able to adjust the grind by very small amounts as the beans age.... so stepless is best but if stepped - the smaller the steps the better. Therefore the EM480 is a more capable espresso grinder.

  17. #67
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I remember when I got mine I clicked them min-to-max, and they werent identical number of clicks (not sure the difference), but about the same. The website says 24 clicks for 80, 25 clicks for the 50, but I wouldnt take it as gospel. The gradients on the 80 here suggest 25.

    As far as grind, on my 50 I use 11 for the Eth Yirg, and the same grind on the 80 is 7. In the EM grinder thread people who have had theirs too coarse out of the box have reset the tolerance to shift the fineness up the clicks.

    Regarding resolution of stepped or stepless, I think these stepped examples work well enough with the Presso, but Id be happy to product test ;)

  18. #68
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Hi CSs, thanks for the advice on naked PFs. Ill head over to Naked Coffee in Brisbane and talk to them about it. And Stoveboy, I must admit ve joined this thread on a slightly dodgy note, as I dont have a Presso and I was just wanting to talk about the bottomless PFs that Daveze mentioned :P. Ive a Gaggia Carezza with a Brass PF, which would probably need pretty heavy machinery to hack into.

    As for the EMO450 vs the EMO480, I must admit Im a bit hazy on the reviews, as I did all my grinder research a while ago before I bought my EMO480. Back then I read the extensive CS thread on the EMO480, and seem to recall a lot of talk about the EMO450 not being in the same class. Definately read the thread before you decide, but for $160 bucks get the EMO480 I recken. Alan on Coffee for Connisseurs says "Sunbeam EM0450: Stepped adjustment, Lux burrset in a plastic body, with all other features stripped back to give the lowest possible cost." So it sounds like it grinds just as well, except with less grind adjustments, less attractive design and cheaper parts, which probably means less durability. But, seeing as the EMO480 cuts it pretty fine with its slightly limited number of grind adjustments (it has only 24 notches, while Rocky and LUX having about 40 notches I think), Id advise against the EMO450 if it had more than a few less adjustments. If I was buying a grinder now, Id look into the LUX, because its still pretty cheap but has plenty of adjustments.

    Im interested in your comment JavaB that you need small grinder adjustments to cope with aging beans. The stuff that Ive read has said that changing humidity and temperature are the factors that impact on flow rate: a dry atmosphere translates into a faster pour, and wetter conditions produce slower extractions. I suppose, the logic being that is that wet climates make the ground coffee slightly wetter than dry atmospheres, which makes the grounds bond more tightly together and form a tighter puck. I guess the more beans age the more oily they get, and so you might get the same situation with older beans as you get with wetter climates, getting wetter coffee grounds that make tighter pucks and slower extractions.

    Uh oh, Ive produced an essay and havent ssaid anything about the Presso, so Ill leave it there :-X. But Id be interested in your thoughts JavaB.

    Richy.

  19. #69
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    One of the beauties of the Presso is that you dont need to rely solely upon the grind/tamp to control your extraction time, you can slightly vary the pressure that you apply through the arms.

    You know you want one....

  20. #70
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Indeed, it was Gregs question that made me think about that, and now Im pressing similarly, but conscious of keeping as thin a stream as possible faster than drops, just because drops are very messy, and a thin slow stream slightly faster than drops dont splash it all about. Much mor civilised ;)

  21. #71
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Quote Originally Posted by richy_4000 link=1169640939/60#67 date=1177503313
    Im interested in your comment JavaB that you need small grinder adjustments to cope with aging beans. The stuff that Ive read has said that changing humidity and temperature are the factors that impact on flow rate: a dry atmosphere translates into a faster pour, and wetter conditions produce slower extractions. I suppose, the logic being that is that wet climates make the ground coffee slightly wetter than dry atmospheres, which makes the grounds bond more tightly together and form a tighter puck. I guess the more beans age the more oily they get, and so you might get the same situation with older beans as you get with wetter climates, getting wetter coffee grounds that make tighter pucks and slower extractions.

    But Id be interested in your thoughts JavaB.

    Richy.
    Richy,

    Yep grind size for optimum extraction varies with relative humidity - and that variation can be considerable - Just ask Lizzie who lives in a motor home.... the humidity can vary from about 90% to maybe 15% depending whether they have just had showers and been cooking down to "normal" humidity of say 15% here in Perth on a dry day.... she is forever adjusting her grinder.

    As beans age they appear to get "drier"..... and that has a similar effect (but more gradual) in that as they age you must grind finer and finer to get the perfect pour..... the increase of visible oil on the surface of the beans doesnt seem to have an effect- or if it does it is hidden by the fact that the beans are "drier".... my guess is the oils migrate to the surface and being volatile, are evaporating leaving the overall bean with less moisture.

    I probably change the grinder at least once a day to compensate for ageing.... more so when they are say 3 days post roast.... eventually they stop changing i.e. are stale (but mine never last that long) ;)

  22. #72
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Morning Java,

    Its one of the great things about espresso isnt it, its such a volatile process with all these factors like age of bean and climate coming into play. Exciting stuff :D. Ive just taken the hygrometer off my mums viola case and put it next to the coffee machine. But its always pretty humid here in Brisy :P.

    That would be your stepless grinder coming into play there, you probably couldnt change it every day with a stepped grinder, and certainly not a humble Sunbeam EMO480 :(. Maybe when Im fich and famous Ill be able to get some real espresso equipment (i.e. in sometime in the next life).

    Have a good one mate!

  23. #73
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Dont get depressed about perfection. The Japanese culture is obsessed with perfection, and it got them the highest suicide rates in the world*.
    Cheap and cheerful is a Pressites way ;)

    *unconfirmed heresay, slap on wrist.

  24. #74
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Ive had my presso about a month now, for work. The difference from my first press to what im doing now is amazing. Its a great machine for work. Throughout most of the pour the shot is all crema in the glass and subsides to a nice 1/3 of crema at the end, i would never have thought that possible when i first used it. Im grinding about 2-3 notches lower on rocky... than what i do for silvia, but might try dropping that some more to experiment.

    AND, today i got my first, completely dry and solid puck....

    Also I forgot to drop rocky a few notches the other day, so my first shot was a little off, but the next shot i just tamped the living daylights out of it and all was good again.

    Good stuff this presso i must say.

    KoNG

  25. #75
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Theyre a tops option for work. Minimal footprint, no power, easy to clean.

    I was a bit desperate today, the blend I tried from Sugar n Spice just wasnt doing anything for me. So I went back to Merlo again (it really is so much more convenient). Had a chat with the lady thats in charge of the store this time and we negotiated to a grind slightly coarser than turkish (I decided to trust her knowledge of the grinder). For the rest of the day I was pulling magic shots. The first shot pulled was amazing, so much crema, so much flavour. Obviously as the day wore on a little more, the crema started to wane some but it was still fantastic. Once again this makes me sad though. Ive got a big internal battle going on, I want to get a grinder for work so I can continue with the crema-ry goodness but its going to make pulling shots take longer and probably make more of a mess...

    Its really beautiful watching the bottomless PF in action, I recommend getting one just for that. You watch the darkness spread across the basket, shortly after saturation a few dribbles start. Your heart races. Did I distribute the coffee evenly? Was the tamp right? Then after a circling around each other for a time, the dribbles join together and change from dark to a creamier colour. Rejoice. The pour remains steady for a time but then starts to thin as the pressure decreases. The stream starts to break-up. P-ksshhh-bubbleobble. The pour is complete.

    KoNG: Do you use the prescribed method or the Ben method for pulling a shot? I use the Ben method and find theres always a fair amount of water left over between the puck and the piston.

    Richy: Howd your trip to Naked Coffee go?

  26. #76
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Dave, youll have to explain the "ben" method to me as i havent done much reading on ways to improve the presso yet..
    For a fully packed basket, i start filling the reservoir, then lift the arms a little to allow a bit more water in, then essentially fill to the 2 shot mark. Then its just one "press" and i end up with the shots below.
    (excuse the quality and lack of focus, its a phone shot and i was in a rush after pulling the shot)




  27. #77
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    couldnt sort out the 2 photos in one post... :-[ ;D
    so here is the other shot....


  28. #78
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    The Ben method:

    http://ben.szobody.com/in.mov

    Its orginally linked somewhere above but not always easy to find.

    BTW, the name is Josh. Daveze refers to a vaguely phonetic spelling of my last name...

  29. #79
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    oh yep..... i roughly do that.. (but better..! and naked.! and my voice isnt as deep..) haha

  30. #80
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Henry, a fellow PRESSO has posted a great HOW DO YOU PRESSO video http://www.home-barista.com/forums/p...898.html#43050.
    It is really interesting to see another technique from beginning to end.

  31. #81
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I use the same method to achieve a dry puck. Im not quite so pedantic about getting an exact weight though, but I do pay attention to getting a good distribution.

    I bought the EM0480 on the weekend. Unfortunately, Ive had a pretty mean cold for the last few days, so Ive been avoiding coffee (pounding headache + caffeine = looking for the hammer drill to relieve the pressure on my brain). Ill take the Presso home for the weekend, tune the grind and take some pictures while Im at it.

  32. #82
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    has anyone picked up a suitable tamper to fit the presso.?
    id love to get another pullman for it, but im at this stage not willing to dish out the cash for another, when the presso just sits at work 24/7 (id hate to see it go walk about...)
    i know barista basics do a $20 S/S job, but its 52mm and i dont think that would fit.

    any ideas.?

  33. #83
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Hi Kong!

    Im sure my Pullman is 50mm.

    I saw some 49mm tampers, solid stainless etc etc on an auction site for US$20 (just broaden your tamper search to worldwide)

    Cheers,

    Cameron

  34. #84
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Hi Cameron,
    ill have a wider look... cheers
    i should have pointed out that i have a pullman for my silvia baskets.. which obviously wont fit in the Presso basket. haha

  35. #85
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Ive been doing the Ben method for a while now and like it.
    Full basket.
    Fill hot water as high as possible without overflow as it bubbles down on raising the arms.
    One pull will give me a double espresso volume with high pressure and good strength.
    Nice arm workout.
    I dont use it, but the excess takes a 2nd and half-3rd pull to get a dry puck.

    After having the quality first pull, I gave a colleague my leftover 2nd-3rd pull excess and he was very polite about how bad it was ;D

  36. #86
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Stoveboy,
    Thats exactly what i do..! although i dont bother trying to steam out the puck... Just one long pull ( :-) ) then add in my milk if having some.

  37. #87
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I might try to get this thread going again as I just got a Presso. *I thought Id share some observations and see what response I get. *

    I prefer to *brew for one (my partner only likes the smell of coffee, not the taste) and if I pull a double shot from the Presso in the morning I end up bouncing off the walls. *Also, I use my 6 month old Italian Tre spade hand grinder which doesnt seem to quite grind fine enough for a punchy espresso so I mortar and pestle the output to get it really fine. *It actually doesnt take that long to do this, probably as long as hanging around waiting for a big espresso machine to warm up, just takes some concentration at 7 am. *the point is, I only want to grind just enough coffee for one shot. *

    In the box I got a little, flimsy plastic funnel thing that I presume fits into the Presso for a single shot (not noted in the instructions what this funnel thing is for) *. *Of course the tamper doesnt fit with the funnel in place which would be a shame if you have the custom Pullman model. *

    The question is, is it better to half fill the basket rather than use the funnel????? I guess I should just experiment and compare but someone out there might know the physics of crema discharge.

    From information in previous threads it looks as if you will only get good crema from the Presso if you get fine and consistent output from a high-end grinder. *It is a shame to get the nifty little Presso to make coffee and then have a lumping great grinder next to it. *Its like putting tractor tyres on a Mini, for want of a better analogy. *

    It would be interesting to see how the Zassenhaus hand grinder fares for a good Presso grind. *I am thinking of modifying my Tre spade somehow to get it to grind finer. *Anyone with any experience with that obscure topic??? *I thought I could put a needle bearing in place of the brass bush to make the drive shaft more stable to stop the wobble that leads to an inconsistent grind. *

    All in all the Presso is a great invention. *Will try to record an entry for the video competition. *What will the prize be???


  38. #88
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I mentioned in your other thread that Ive been able to get consistent crema from the Presso. I use the EM0480 that I mentioned buying above, coupled with the bottomless portafilter.

    Ive been a bit quite on this thread. On the weekend after posting that Id bought the grinder, I broked my Presso. Turns out that the pressure generated isnt limited by how strong you are but more by the strength in where the arms connect to the plastic piston...

    I cant really comment on single shot methods...Im infatuated with my gooey ristrettos (shots stopped as soon as the brown-ness runs out), which I think avoids a bit of the bouncing-off-the-walls effect...

    On the tamper front, the one that came with my parents Breville is a perfect fit. Its a goofy design, which makes an even tamp a little harder but it is such a good fit that its now on extended borrow.

  39. #89
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanhead link=1169640939/75#86 date=1185188164

    From information in previous threads it looks as if you will only get good crema from the Presso if you get fine and consistent output from a high-end grinder. It is a shame to get the nifty little Presso to make coffee and then have a lumping great grinder next to it. Its like putting tractor tyres on a Mini, for want of a better analogy.

    The problem is that for great.... or even really good.... espresso it is all about the grind, its fineness and the consistency of those grains..... and that requires a quality grinder....

    It doesnt matter if it is a Synesso, a Giotto, Silvia, Sunbeam or Presso..... they all need quality grinds.

    Its more like having to put the same (expensive) high octane fuel in a small sports car and a $500,000 Ferrari.... rather than your tyre example..... its what is needed to make it perform correctly...

    And whilst it may look rather weird to have a "lumping great grinder" next to a Presso.... if you want the best quality coffee..... so must it be!

  40. #90
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Ive been a bit quite on this thread. *On the weekend after posting that Id bought the grinder, I broked my Presso. *Turns out that the pressure generated isnt limited by how strong you are but more by the strength in where the arms connect to the plastic piston...

    Any tips on how other Presso owners could avoid this? *You must of really been heaving hard on the levers. *Was the presso covered under warranty.?*

    Mod edit- colour of paragraph one returned to white....It helps if we can read whats there ;)

  41. #91
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Dont push too hard. Seriously, if youre really getting into it and nothings coming out, then let it be, youve ground too fine and/or dosed too much. Its a point that youll know when you come to it, youre digging in, nothings coming out and you think If I dont move quick, its just going to be overextracted. At that point, stop, at best itll be overextracted, at worst youll need to call Cameron and clean up your mess.

    Mine currently spits water out the sides at the moment, so its a semi-effective OPV but is really a pain.

    To be honest, I mustve lost my warranty slip but Cameron is an absolute champion to deal with and fixed me up with some replacements.


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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    I think one of the things Presso users need to recognise is the importance of the grind quality..... by that I mean a quality grinder produces little shavings from the coffee beans.... of uniform size..... and when these are tamped into the basket (whether it is a Presso or a Synesso.... or anything in between) there are small gaps between the grains through which water is forced and the coffee, coffee oils and CO2 are extracted....

    Now if you grind your beans by pounding in a mortar and pestle (even just at the final stage) you will have grind sizes all over the place.... down to fine dust....

    Tamp that stuff and you will have a solid block.... not really a puck.... and it will be almost impossible to force water through it.

    I had that problem with a Solis 166 grinder which produced quite a bit of fines as well as the desired size.... it would go from a gusher to a choked pour with the smallest variation in grind size....

    With the La Cimbali Jnr... you can vary the grind size smoothly over a huge range.... all grains are the same size.... and the pour changes smoothly with changes in grind size.

    With a pump model espresso machine if you choke the PF there is an over pressure valve to relieve the pressure and prevent damage...

    With a Presso there is no such safety mechanism..... so if using grinds that are likely to set like concrete in the basket..... then there is a real risk of damaging the unit.....

    To prolong its life..... and produce great tasting coffee.... use a grinder which produces quality, uniform grinds.... and that might be quite large and relatively expensive.

  43. #93
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Ah well. *I thought people would be impressed with my mortar and pestle technique. *Maybe the M and P method is ahead of its time. *CSers of the future will be pounding their grinds after some afficionado found out that massaging of the coffee with the pestle brings out flavours that a grinder cannot....

    Maybe I am the lauging stock of this CS forum. *Any fellow M and P users lets unite!

  44. #94
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Beanhead,

    I think it is a very innovative solution to the problem..... and certainly no one would be laughing.....

    But you need to be aware of the shortcomings of the method....

    The Presso is a real espresso machine (I know some may think differently).. and because of that it has the same requirements as other espresso machines...... the most important being freshly ground, freshly roasted beans - and the correct grind.

    Thats what holds back many of the cheaper espresso machines.... the reality is because the machine is cheaper the owner thinks he/she can match it with a cheap (read inadequate) grinder..... whilst that is true (to some extent) if using pressurised baskets..... if using real baskets.... (like the presso has...) the requirements are the same as it would be for a Synesso.... costing many, many times the price.

    With a quality grinder you will be able to make amazing espresso.....

    By way of a little more explanation..... if the grind is a mixture of very fine (almost dust) particles and larger particles..... as extraction progresses the good oils and flavours will be removed from the small grains quite quickly..... as you continue the larger grains will still be producing the wanted flavours but the small grains will have been over extracted.... resulting in bitter and nasty tasting elements being added to the espresso. That is also a reason for needing consistent sized grains - not just the choking of the basket.

  45. #95
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    That explanation makes alot of sense now. *

    I was once informed that purist coffee snobs use hand grinders as they are less likely to burn the grind. *From your explanation, this would only be the case if the hand grinder is able to grind consistently. *For french press the uneven grind would really upset the flavour Id imagine.

    The burrs on my Tre spade hand grinder seem very high quality but I think the slight wobble in the shaft means that the resulting grind is uneven. *

    I am so resistant to going electric when I thought I had found a human powered espresso solution with the Presso. *

  46. #96
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanhead link=1169640939/90#94 date=1185269797

    The burrs on my Tre spade hand grinder seem very high quality but I think the slight wobble in the shaft means that the resulting grind is uneven.

    I am so resistant to going electric when I thought I had found a human powered espresso solution with the Presso.

    That "wobble" is also the problem with the Solis, DeLonghi (and some have reported it with the Sunbeam) grinders.... They also have quality burrs but they wobble.

    Say the wobble is 0.2mm..... not much really.... grinding for french press lets assume 1mm size grains.... so they will vary from 0.8mm to 1.2mm..... which isnt too bad!

    But lets assume espresso (which is much finer) is 0.3mm grain size...... now grain size will be 0.1 to 0.5mm a whopping 5 times variation..... Thats why these grinders are fine for French press, or even a pressurised espresso baskets (because they use larger grains) but cause all sorts of problems when grinding for a real espresso basket.....

    So yes, the purists who want to grind their coffee so it remains cool could use a hand grinder for french press.... no problem.... but it needs to be far more precise for espresso.

    And I can appreciate your desire to have a purely human powered solution.... Maybe a Zassenhaus hand grinder would fit the bill.... they are reputed to be very high quality but are hard to come by and can be expensive.

  47. #97
    A_M
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Quote Originally Posted by Presso link=1169640939/15#22 date=1170619352
    Quote Originally Posted by grendel link=1169640939/15#18 date=1170585861
    ! My PF locks hard left now already so Id love another shower.
    There is a shower on its way to you as you read this Grendel!

    I popped in some of the Yirrga that I roasted last night aswell. It should be ready to cup by the time you get it.
    I am in Brisbane (North side) and my son bought the unit locally from a small coffee shop just up the road. He did not talk to me about this as he wanted it to be a surprise, thus it did not come from the CS site sponsor as far as I know.

    The one thing I noticed with my new present (Son got it for me 7 days ago) is that the screen tends to block with grinds (over filling ?) and it is a pain to clean.

    Would be nice to get access to a spare, such that I can replace and clean the old at leisure.

    I would also love to get a replacement for the "plastic fitting" that does the double pour, or is this a separate group handle ?

    Where can I go to find out more...




  48. #98
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Sounds like your grind may be a tad fine, the holes in the shower are much smaller than the grind for espresso, maybe back flushing wet pucks using coffee dust is the problem.

    I reckon using this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3tegRe8ZBk technique is the way to go. It drys the puck out leaving your shower squeaky clean.

    Having said that, Ive put a new shower and "spiltter" in the post to your supplier(in Brisbane), just pop in and tell them your CS username and theyll hand over the brown paper bag!

    Cheers,

    Cameron

  49. #99
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Quote Originally Posted by Presso link=1169640939/90#97 date=1185607332
    Sounds like your grind may be a tad fine, the holes in the shower are much smaller than the grind for espresso, maybe back flushing wet pucks using coffee dust is the problem.

    I reckon using this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3tegRe8ZBk technique is the way to go. It drys the puck out leaving your shower squeaky clean.

    Having said that, Ive put a new shower and "spiltter" in the post to your supplier(in Brisbane), just pop in and tell them your CS username and theyll hand over the brown paper bag!

    Cheers,

    Cameron
    I trust the supplier is a small but going concern in Kent Rd Wooloowin ?? If not drop me a PM and I will make sure I go to the right guy ;)

    However, I must first say thanks..... for the support and access to the parts, problem is a "brown paper bag in Brisbane", well..... the cops will love that ;D

    I will have to look a bit closer as to what I am doing. Have watched any number of clips, and I must admit I usually do 2 pumps for the coffee, and a 3rd to dry out the puk.

    But I like the US ? clip, fill to the top with water and do only ONE compress and even then, do not take the handles above the horizontal.

    I guess I am usually trying to get TWO cups each time and thus tend to over dose ::) in an effort to get the most from one event.

    Will be taking it to work next week and cant wait to see their faces ;D

  50. #100
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    Re: Living with Presso: ongoing review

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Expect many quizzical looks...nearly 6 months on and I continue to get them. And get used to the comment that seems like a lot of work for such a small result (while they dose Blend 43 into their mug).

    Try pulling your first and second pulls into separate vessels and compare the taste. I pull until I see the darker brown streaks start to disappear. Usually means I get slightly over 30mL from a full basket...but oh my, what a 30mL.

    Yirga yirga yirga, oh how I miss my dear Yirgacheffe...

    Josh D

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