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Thread: Atomic Collectors Thread

  1. #101
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Oh my lord.... the story unfolds. The new Simon Imre revelations are going to take me some time to digest. I will just make a brief post today:

    a) Stella: I understand that Venus has not yet confirmed the link to Qalital: however she has confirmed a link to Hungary and if you look at the Stella product list you see one of the machines is marked "Qualital Atomic Electro 1948-1950". There is enough circumstantial evidence on record to confirm the link- I am sure Judiths papers will reveal this further.

    b) My latest theory is that Qalital inherited the original tooling- either from Italy or from Austria of the earliest Atomic form... It makes sense- tooling is very expensive to manufacture and when Robbiati abandoned the flat head design he probably sold the original tools...

    c) I dont have time to photograph the red lights today- but they are quite different. They are both very large though and similar in style. The Martian is very clearly made in the Robbiati factory- it even has the star pattern in the machine head and filter baskets and the steam and brew knobs are converted water knob from the standard Robbiati Atomic. It is quite different than Stellas 101 machine- but I think both companies were trying to compete with the new Pavoni and Gaggia lever machines of the early 1950s . This competition was doomed to failure, as the Gaggia levers were a revolution in coffee and espresso design- whilst the Martian and the 101 were simply a new take on the last 50 years of technology, based on steam pressure rather than a spring (or later the E61 faema pump of 1961). This explains why Martians are so rare... Gaggias spring lever group head has really never been bettered, and the modern elite Slayer espresso machine actually tries to replicate the brew characteristics of the classic spring lever.

    d) It is interesting to note the Martian name. It tells us something about Robbiati and the Atomic machine. Both machines have very 1950s Sci Fi names (and even designs). Both names are words in English- not Italian. Alomost all Italian made coffee makers have Italian names- however I believe Robbiati was looking to the USA market and was influenced by SciFi notions of futuristic design and the general technological Zeitgeist of the "Atomic" Era. We can also see the influence of the Italian futurists, and the Bahaus modernists etc. in the Robbiati and Stella designs. *I think Robbiati was a visionary in this respect and the Martian really is a great organic design classic, a miracle in aluminum. It would look perfectly at home on Buck Rodgers rocket ship.

    As we now have wonderful pictures of Desider Stern and the beauty Queen - it is time for a picture of Giordano Robbiati himself. This was provided to me by Frederick Nakos and my thanks go to him for sourcing it. I am fairly sure this is Giordano but it has never been confirmed 100%:




  2. #102
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E524F4F58534954535C5E525B5B58583D0 link=1260377965/100#100 date=1264128606
    My latest theory is that Qalital inherited the original tooling- either from Italy or from Austria of the earliest Atomic form... It makes sense- tooling is very expensive to manufacture and when Robbiati abandoned the flat head design he probably sold the original tools...
    Well... That doesnt sound too bad... a good plausible theory. In this case from Italy directly... because nobody was in Vienna at that time... Stern and Simon were in Budapest...
    Note: If its the case... im sure Judith will find the Buying Contracts. Desider Stern was a Espresso Coffee maker in his business life. But Private, he had a Hobby and a Vision (a bit like us, right?)... He was collecting books, papers, letters, documents... about jewish litterature in german language mainly and his correspondence with these authors... as he gave his collection to the House of Litterature (note: his first collection of books, he had to leave behind him in 1933), the entire Collection fitted in 134 Folders of about 30.000 documents containing 10.500 names. Gi-gan-tic!!! So, i do not worry about his personal papers... he would keep them for sure.... it is just that there is probably "millions" of it. On the Youtube videos, you can see there are some documents displayed in the windows (is it a Advertising for the E Lucullus?).

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E524F4F58534954535C5E525B5B58583D0 link=1260377965/100#100 date=1264128606
    Stella product list you see one of the machines is marked "Qualital Atomic Electro 1948-1950"
    yep... I said already i would only affirm information if we have proof about it... for me the fact that its on the Stella catalog is a very important fact... but i would rather have Venus showing me papers about it... maybe Imre Simon was the head of Qualital? maybe they had to write Qualital on it to promote hungarian aluminium industry? maybe Qualital and Stella produced machines parallel, how long? Was Qualital a registered mark - registered under Imre Simon?

    Could a foreigner (Stern was a German Jew: Breslau (now Wroclaw) was a German town in 1907) *create a Factory in Communist Hungary at that time?

    I dont believe in Wikipedia, but its practical sometimes: Hungary after WW2:
    "Following the fall of Nazi Germany, Soviet troops occupied all of the country and through their influence Hungary gradually became a communist satellite state of the Soviet Union. Many of the communist leaders of 1919 returned from Moscow. After 1948, Communist leader Mátyás Rákosi established Stalinist rule in the country complete with forced collectivization and planned economy. Mátyás Rákosi now attempted to impose authoritarian rule on Hungary."

    Tchüss,
    Stella







  3. #103
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Sorrentinacoffee, LVX,
    Did you know the 110E water distributor was Patented by Stern:

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=AT&NR=176318B&KC=B&FT=D&date=1 9531010&DB=EPODOC&locale=de_at


    LVX,
    Greetings!!! thats the 402E:

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=AT&NR=179624B&KC=...

    The 1952 unbekannte Modell:

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=DE&NR=926087C&KC=C&FT=D&date=1 9550407&DB=EPODOC&locale=de_at

    Atomic 105:

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=AT&NR=179622B&KC=B&FT=D&date=1 9540925&DB=EPODOC&locale=de_at

    Atomic 304E piccolo???

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=AT&NR=179621B&KC=B&FT=D&date=1 9540925&DB=EPODOC&locale=de_at

    Stella


    PS: im having a fantastic time on the hungarian patent office website looking for Imre Simon!!! , join me, well make a party!!!! * :D http://www.hpo.hu

  4. #104
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Patents of Imre Simon in the Hungarian Patent Office, among other patents for special closing methods for coffee machine, and others for Hoovers? Mixers?, i found this 2 Pictures:

    Stella




  5. #105
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    :) :) :) :) :) :) :)YES :) :) :) :) :) :)

    On one of the Patent of Imre Simon... a strange name appears:
    Stern Dezs[ch337]

    Dezs[ch337] translates as Desiderius!!!
    And he has a few patents (13 i think... not all about coffee machines). They date from february 1948 to september 1949.

    Stella






  6. #106
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    On the patent they made together (141138) from the 16 februar 1949, it is written:

    "Simon Imre mérnök, Budapest, mint Stern Dezs[ch337] m[ch369]szaki-
    tervez[ch337], Budapest jogutódja."

    translated:

    "Imre Simon, engineer, Budapest, Dezso Stern as technical
    Design, Budapest successor."

    On another Patent. Imre Simon is described as "Tinsmith and Plumber".

    Extra information:
    At least one of his Patents was already made in Tchecholslovakia , on the 14 November 1945. The website is not opening on my computer *:(
    Stella

  7. #107
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E594841414C037A444843031C2D0 link=1260377965/105#105 date=1264173930
    Extra information:
    At least one of his Patents was already made in Tchecholslovakia , on the 14 November 1945. The website is not opening on my computerSad
    give the link , we can try ;D

  8. #108
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 38222C540 link=1260377965/106#106 date=1264277427
    give the link
    Czech Patent Ofiice:
    http://www.upv.cz/

    Slovakia Patent Office:
    http://www.indprop.gov.sk/?databases-patents

    Have Fun!!!
    Stella


  9. #109
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    ill show you my collection of coffee machines"


    Before i show you my jugs, guys..."

    Out of context I know Stella - but youve got me intrigued... 8-)

    Tell us more about yourself - what do you do for a living ? sounds like something very organised or technical..

    You have a great yet subtle sense of humour..
    Regards,


  10. #110
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 123133282F26232E2A410 link=1260377965/108#108 date=1264414987
    youve got me intrigued... Tell us more about yourself
    You have a great *yet subtle sense of humour
    Cut it!
    No flirting here... *:-*
    And YES, i AM very organised ,determined amd consequent ... (for my humour... i have an excuse: i lived in the UK for 3 years) ... mainly i got the Atomic/Stella virus and second, this virus is very interesting, little know/researched and one has to say not bad looking at all. (if you think a bit... my job is in an environment where viruses do come up)
    To finish, this virus made me meet great people with incredible knowledge like LVX and SorrentinaCoffee... and above all Stella Stern, with whom i have great exchanges and regular contact. Im living a Sherlock Holmes Story... and find it fa-sci-na-ting. And i have to say, i am lucky to live in a part of the World where this Atomic/Stella story first started. That makes my research easier. (thats no excuse for the last patent mails: i really sweated to get them).
    And for you Springbok: i am Married *:(
    But looking at your interest in Coffeemachines, i would anyway doubt about your motivation to get married to me...

    So, i received a disappointing email from Kraftfood (the owner of the trademark former know as Kenya coffee company):
    "Dear Stella,
    thank you very much for your kind inquiry. We are always pleased to hear from our consumers. Unfortunately we are not able to oblige to your request, because you asked for company-specific informations.
    With kind regards
    KRAFT FOODS AUSTRIA
    Customer Care
    Abdu Chebli"
    Not very helping, isnt it?

    Venus lately asked me to greet all of you loads.
    Stella


  11. #111
    lvx
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 6146575E5E531C655B575C1C03320 link=1260377965/109#109 date=1264430880
    Cut it!
    No flirting here...Kiss
    And YES, i AM very organised ,determined amd consequent ...
    Im married too (and very happy :)), so if Ill invite you to show off my collection, your husband presence will be necessary ;D .
    You have amazed and bewitched every reader with your "energy"!
    Go ahead with your Sherlocks trial ...! 8-)

  12. #112
    lvx
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Hi guys, here we have 3 interesting machines from mrs Beckers collection.
    You can find other stuff at her amazing site: http://www.kaffeemaschine.de/home.html

    2 Stella *:D *and a very strange Atomic *8-).
    The Atomic seems to be a mix or Jack, have you ever seen that relief valve?
    Or is it a crema enhancer, like a pump ?
    We can start bets ;D






  13. #113
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    What? - a coffee nerd like me doesnt know how to fl... ( cant even say the word :-[

    Now back to those machines ...


    My bad..

  14. #114
    lvx
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 7053514A4D44414C48230 link=1260377965/112#112 date=1264444151
    What? - a coffee nerd like me doesnt know how to fl... ( cant even say the wordEmbarrassed

    Now back to those machines ...

    You must confess.... Your secret target was the Stellas machines *;D
    We are all joking ! *;) , for other purposes I always use pms. 8-)

  15. #115
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    A ha, this is indeed a very unusual Atomic.... Never seen before... Clearly a Robbiati machine- dates from the 60s-70s... ???

    My Guess: the little knob controls the flow of the water to the group. Not a pump (though if it is its amazing). I would love to see the other side?

    When I first took the Atomic plans and some prototypes to Taiwan for reverse engineering- we looked into the possibility of making a machine like this- with two control knobs- one for the steam and another that would operate a valve in the central water tube. The idea was to increase the pressure for the brew, and give more control. We actually made a proto-type frankenstein machine. We cut the head off an Atomic and built a valve into the steam part- and then welded it back up- extremely difficult task... But in testing it was no real improvement- basically the machine is designed to operate at a low pressure. It is not a lever or pump design.

    I wonder if I still have a picture of our attempt along these lines.... let me see... we ended up destroying the machine unfortunately...

    ah yes- here it is:


  16. #116
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Gday on Australia Day. Seeking assistance in replacing the seal on my 30year old Atomic. Have a full seal replacement kit but cant seem to work out which goes where. Anyone have plans or a disagram?
    Baz :-/

  17. #117
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    PM sent Baz.

  18. #118
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    "Remind yourself that the word that comes through your mouth cant get back to it without someone to have heard it"

    If i would have remembered this words from Desider Stern, i wouldnt be there today to present my public apologies to Frederick NAKOS (Canada).

    Some of you have been hurt by what i said about him and i apologize for that.

    Frederick has been a pioneer in the Atomic research and if we are now here, sharing our Knowledge with the Community... thats mainly thanks to him... he got the name Desider Stern out of the Basket, he -first- could make contact with the Stern Family. To put in a nutshell, i -speaking for myself- would never have been able to contact Judith, if it wasnt for Frederick who started it all.

    So i wanted by this email to pay tribute to him, present my apologies both to him and the people i hurt, and thank him to having laid the path for us threading today.

    Stella - still very uncomfortable with the term guru. but ill have to live with it i suppose.

  19. #119
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 352F21590 link=1260377965/111#111 date=1264443757
    2 Stella
    Hi,
    I have the 2 Stellas, sent some photos to STELLA to post them here, since I dont know how it works :-[

  20. #120
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Here they are, Judith, as you know i wanted to check if you dont mind me posting them here:
    So i proudly Present: The Legacy of Desider Stern.




  21. #121
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Here the models photographed individually:










  22. #122
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .








  23. #123
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Thanks so much, Stella, for posting the photos, I think this is really the right site to honor my father and to show one of his "life works". I will send you the rest of the photos this weekend. Take care! :D

  24. #124
    lvx
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 635C4D405D41767A5D4C5B47290 link=1260377965/122#122 date=1264747617
    I will send you the rest of the photos this weekend. Take care! Cheesy
    The rest... I will not sleep till the next post 8-)
    Thanks to everyone , this thread will be a milestone.

  25. #125
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Whats funny is that I dont collect, or even want to collect Atomics *8-)
    but this thread has me tuning in every time I log on!

    Greg

  26. #126
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Just amazing .. fantastic work - what a great collection.

  27. #127
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Seeing as this wonderful thread deals specifically with the manual Atomics this is where it should rightfully be and it will make it much easier to find for new users who are interested in these delightful machines. :)


    Java "Admiring all the wonderful designs!" phile

  28. #128
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C6F6D7671787D70741F0 link=1260377966/125#125 date=1264819524
    Just amazing .. fantastic work - what a great collection.
    Yes, it is ... but who else should have it if not one of Desider Sterns children ??? ;)
    Where do you live?
    Best regards from Vienna,
    Judith (Venus)

  29. #129
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 764958554854636F48594E523C0 link=1260377966/127#127 date=1264858187
    Where do you live?
    Im an African Born in Zambia, lived in Zimbabwe and finally South Africa before moving to the greatest country on earth - Im now a proud Australian - the only thing I cannot rid myself of is my love of Springbok Rugby.

    ps Please go and see the movie Invictus - it shows so much of the great insight of Nelson Mandela.

    <turns to a great cup of coffee ;)

  30. #130
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C7F7D6661686D60640F0 link=1260377966/128#128 date=1264890438
    the only thing I cannot rid myself of is my love of Springbok Rugby.
    Dont worry; a few more wins by the Aussies and youll soon be 100% and yelling at those Seth Efricans like the rest of us.

  31. #131
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    hahaha!!

  32. #132
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Hello to all the rugby fans too!








  33. #133
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    On the picture "brother", you can see Judith and her Fathers brother Moshe Stern.










  34. #134
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Not only Qualital or Stella stuck to the original Patent, the toy industry too!!!
    What an Tribute to Robbiati!!! or is it Patent Fraud?
    I will not cite the chinese saying " copy is the highest form of flattery " no no no
    Stella
    PS: thanks Lucio for forwarding me to this website page!
    PS: it sold for an unbeatable 1,5€!!!



  35. #135
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    After Presenting you the difference between Atomic Stella 102 and Atomic Stella 104, im back with plenty of comparisons!!!
    So Lets Start!!!

    Live from Vienna, Austria
    Stella is proud to Present: Atomic Qualital vs Atomic Stella 102

    well... its exactly the same machine *:)








  36. #136
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .






  37. #137
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Well thats for the Starters...
    Here, it carries on with...

    "Drum roll"

    Still in Vienna, Austria
    Stella happily presents: Robbiati Atomic "b" vs Robbiati Atomic "B"

    youre gonna tell me... well its the same. Well, the "Bs" came in two sizes, hence the "b" and the "B" on the title. But i talked enough, here are the Pictures:










  38. #138
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .










  39. #139
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    I know... youre still hungry...

    Dont worry... i have desert for you...

    Live ... yawn... from Vienna, yes, in Austria (the Capital actually).
    Stella - at your service - its not pride its more than that - presents:

    Atomic Sassoon with Steamer vs Atomic Robbiati with Steamer

    They are so different! Sassoon made their own machines, thats certain... they have not a lot to do with the Robbiatis. (look! even the thickness of Aluminium is different!!!)










  40. #140
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .






  41. #141
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .






  42. #142
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 7750414848450A734D414A0A15240 link=1260377966/134#134 date=1265184009
    well... its exactly the same machine
    of couse ... theyve got the same "head" ... Desider Stern. Atomic Qualital was produced in Budapest, Atomic Stella 102 in Vienna. Well, STELLA. you did a great job!
    Have a nice day!
    Judith

  43. #143
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Hi Stella, again great artistic flair - Im interested in the model shown in P1060621 - can you tell me more about it - there seems to be more design and manufacturing methods in this model rather than pure casting?

    Thanks,

    Springbok


  44. #144
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    More about it later... No time now. Its name is Stella 304E Piccolo. Here the patent drawings.




  45. #145
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Hi everyone!!!
    _Anyone who could upload the Sassoon Leaflet??? Would be great indeed!!!
    _Anyone to upload a Atomic with Blue Knob, please do!!! We know they are out there, somewhere!

    Question:
    _ Why didnt Bontrading nor Sorrentina keep to the original Design concerning the knob? I mean with the hollow part? The new ones are all flat... I say that because i do think this belong to the overall Atomic Appearance (see following pictures).

    (i correct myself: my Robbiati atomic C (as i call it: with the red knob) is as well full... so from which point on did the hollow knob disappear?)
    Greetings from Vienna, snowing again today.
    Stella








  46. #146
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Technofun - very clever

  47. #147
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    YES, I do admit:
    I really thought the Blue-Knob was a myth!!!
    Thanks to Lucio again... we have got trace of it... It is a Sassoon model: the Picture i send can be found on this website:
    http://www.joan.4mes1.org/index.php?cat=0
    What a amazing collection!!!


  48. #148
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    And if youre a bit curious... like me... youll look through his/her Collection of Coffee machines.... and find incredible pictures... Beauties!!!

    How about his one?


  49. #149
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    .






  50. #150
    Stella.Wien.1
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    Re: Atomic Collectors Thread

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Well not an atomic...i think we could include that one in the atomic family... the base look so familiar!


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