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Thread: Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

  1. #1
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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Cafelat Coffee Tamper and Accessories
    PC142904.jpg



    In mid-September 2012 I emailed Ross Spencer at Portaspresso about a Rossa device. The bloke had the integrity to inform me that in a month or so a new model would be available, one lighter and better. So instead of selling an old one, he said to wait.

    Having never used a Rossa device I was in no position to judge what was better or not, but I do own a Rosco Mini-hand grinder and have been very pleased with the quality and craftsmanship.

    I’m willing to bet that if you owned a Portaspresso device and your town was engulfed by magma from a volcano, in a thousand years time archeologists would be able to dust off the dirt, and begin happily grinding their favourite espresso blend while musing over their latest report.

    Two of the biggest criteria for coffee purchases for me are durability and portability. I want them to last a long time and to go travelling.

    Once the new model became available I ordered a Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge).

    The set comes well packaged in a small box, capable of worldwide delivery. The first thing I noticed was that it is lighter (0.75kg) than the Rosco hand grinder, even with a pressure gauge. The latter being brass and about 1.2kg.

    IMG_0061.jpg

    IMG_0062.jpg

    After reading and carrying out the first use cleaning instructions I began preparing the first shot.


    Charging the Cylinder:
    Luckily for me I’m a road cyclist and have two floor pumps already. The air cylinder adapter has a thread so using the pump with a female thread is easier in my opinion.

    The other thing about the screw on type pumps is they make much less hissing noise than the lever squeeze pump heads (when removing from the cylinder thread adaptor). This makes a difference if you are going for an early morning ride or off to work. Either that or pre-charge the air cylinder the night before.

    Pumping up above 11bar became immediately disconcerting when I noticed the gauge on the pump only went up to 11bar. But the needle spun passed the maximum without too much effort.

    If you need to buy a pump to use the device I would avoid a hand pump and have a look at the Lezyne mini floor drive range. Especially the micro floor drive or the travel floor drive. Lezyne make reliable and durable products that are good for both home and travel.

    Judging by the Popeye sized forearms of Ross in the youtube videos he probably doesn’t have a problem getting up to 120PSI with a hand pump, but I did have trouble on my little hand pump I take cycling.

    Had to muck around a couple of times to get a sense of whether or not the valve was open, or I was pumping into the closed circuit of the pump hose. There’s little chance of breaking the device, so I wasn’t worried.

    The valve thread takes a little getting used to and may be a little sticky to begin with. I did think that maybe an armed head like a water tap might be easier to turn than the round head. Jury is out on that front functionally, but the aesthetics would suffer.

    [Update: After a week of use I can say the current round head is perfect for the job]

    PC142905.jpg

    Trick with the cylinder valve is to treat it gently when opening and closing. With pumping, get the pump adaptor on first before opening the valve. Any pressure inside the cylinder will quickly show up on the gauge. You don’t have to open the valve up passed the black o-ring on the valve stem.


    Making the coffee:

    My first attempt was a disaster because there was no air in the cylinder and the water just flopped through the basket. That was ok I thought, and had about 5 goes pumping the cylinder up and having dummy runs with a wet and used puck.

    Most of us will get the device in the mail in the afternoon. For me, I didn’t get anywhere near mastering the technique on the first night. After about 5 or 6 air cylinders’ full (running through a wet puck) I gave up for the night and read the manual and watched the tube video again.

    I recommend the video instead of the written manual on the first night as the manual tends to digress and Ross runs through the steps slowly enough on the video that you can follow him. The manual is good for fine-tuning your technique.


    All this makes it sound difficult. It isn’t. I’ve had the device for three days now and have started to make good coffee. I imagine it will be about 1 month before I have complete control over the settings. Having said that the coffee on the first morning was a set up from my previous machine.

    I ordered the grind transfer adaptor and whilst a nice little addition I am not convinced it’s absolutely necessary.

    [Update, the adaptor and I have since become friends. It centres the coffee raised from the base of the basket making it easier for tamping]

    Now. About the coffee quality. I’m no expert. After about 20 shots I’m getting somewhere. Sometimes I have enough control to get the pressure gauge up to six bar at around the 15 second mark, and sometimes not. Perhaps I’m doing something wrong like not opening the valve enough, but the coffee still tastes great. After a limited run there is a variety of tastes. Perhaps in time I will know how to deliberately create those different tastes.


    PC142944.jpg

    During the ‘photoshoot’ a friend Lorenz took the photos while I made the shots. I made about 3 shots in fifteen minutes while chatting. Could be done a lot faster.

    We could easily taste the differences; some fruity, some caramel, some bitter, some not. At one point our conversation seamlessly shifted to whisky. Making these comparisons, you could say I’m working toward the highest taste of coffee drinking with this device.

    I’ve taken to grinding the coffee while the device heats up with boiling water. I also have a blender jug on hand to collect the heat-up water instead of tipping it down the sink.

    One of the best aspects of the Rossa PG is that you can control the pressure in two phases. Once in the air cylinder itself and then the second time when you open the valve during infusion. If you put less pressure in the air cylinder there’s less danger of over extraction. Also, if there’s less pressure to begin with there’s less chance of messing it up.

    Tamp consistency and the amount of coffee has an impact because this will change the time it takes from starting to open the valve, the valve opening, and then coffee passing through the naked filter head. For my level of experience, at the moment there feels like a delay between opening the valve and coffee coming out. You have to keep slowly winding the valve open.

    There is a level of satisfaction with the interactivity of the device. I find myself having to stop wanting to make another shot to see what it will taste like otherwise I’ll be floating on a coffee cloud all day. It’s not like a jumper or an electric coffee machine; you put it on and it does it’s job. There are no buttons or chords or fuses.

    There is an old fashioned quality to the Portaspresso range I find very appealing.


    A couple of conclusions:

    With the purchase, I would welcome some spare o-rings, a spare head seal, and a spare air cylinder pump adaptor. I can see myself losing the adaptor at some stage (especially on the road) and it would be a annoying to have to wait a week or two for a replacement, as it is not after market.

    One limitation to the device in both the mini hand grinder and espresso device is that they’re not ultra-lightweight. I’d be very tempted to take the Rossa PG (0.75kg without PG) hiking or cycle touring, but at 1.2kg the mini-hand grinder is a little too heavy.

    Perhaps carbon fibre or titanium? Or plastic? One of the previous materials morphing into alloy (like a bike fork drop out) for the threads?

    Furthermore, I am not sure the bores need to be as large as they are, since you’re only grinding and extracting one shot at a time. I could be totally off the mark here however.

    Having said this, these little dudes are definitely coming along on the next backpacking or camping adventure.

    If you could get both the grinder and espresso device down below 1 kg and a combined cost of $500AUD you would have a world beater.

    Another touch I would like to see is a molded and padded briefcase for the kit.

    The future of lightweight espresso is very bright and Ross Spencer at Portaspresso has a sound portfolio to work from. The Air Espresso PG is an excellent device for any coffee enthusiast because it offers a high level of control over all factors of espresso creation. Thus far, every morning I wake up stoked with my purchase. My bosoms have never swelled so frequently as I stand back to admire the Guinness-like settling of each pour.

    If you would like to see more photos, please click here.


    Last edited by eljimberino; 17th December 2012 at 03:55 PM.
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    A few questions with the maker:

    Q: What did you do before starting Portaspresso?

    A: I started out as a Fitter and Turner and worked in industry in related
    roles from the shop floor to various leadership roles, but I was never
    really happy in that field. The coffee business emerged largely by
    chance while I was working on another business idea. I studied
    psychology and HR management with a plan to specialise in workplace
    motivation and performance management, but from a different perspective
    than what is currently done. That approach required to go ahead
    independently, but I needed a way of generating a basic income outside
    of regular employment so that I could resign from my job at the time to
    focus on the new project.

    After much contemplation, I decided the most flexible option to earn a
    basic income was to make a product and sell it online. The concept was
    sound, but I had no idea about what to make. I've always been an
    inventive type person, so I was thinking about what I could make that
    people would want. I came up with a number of ideas, but nothing that
    stood out. It was a slow afternoon at work and I needed a coffee to help
    stay awake, but I couldn't bring myself to drink the instant coffee.
    Frustrated about the lack of good coffee, I looked at bringing an
    espresso machine in from home, but there really wasn't enough room in
    the lunch room. I then searched for a portable option, but found that no
    such device existed that could produce the quality I desired. With my
    current options exhausted, I just made a tea and got back to thinking of
    a product I could make.

    I couldn't decide on what to make, and I still had to tolerate bad
    coffee at work. I eventually matched the two problems with the obvious
    solution, which was to make a high quality portable espresso device.
    That was all good in theory, but I still had to come up with something
    that would do the job. Nevertheless, that was the point that the
    Portaspresso idea was born.

    Q: Did any of those skills transfer into the coffee world?

    A: As noted above, I've always been an inventive person, even from a very
    young age. The trade training and subsequent experience certainly
    provided the skills to both design and make the Portaspresso products.

    Q: When did you develop the first Rossa prototype?

    A: The first design was in 2009 if I remember correctly.

    Q: Was the design based on other coffee devices you had seen? Or completely
    unrelated?

    A: The design was started from scratch. As it turned out though, it shared
    the screw piston design that was part the original espresso machine
    design, but I did not discover that until some time later. It was
    interesting to read that the original design suffered from the same
    problems that I experienced, but the difference was that I was able to
    use modern materials to overcome the problem. I'm sure the original
    designers would have done the same if the materials were available at
    the time.

    The piston design was the means of generating pressure, but it was a
    challenge to make it small enough to work as a real portable option. The
    original design was quite different to what it is now. The first
    prototype was not exactly the most useable device I've ever made, but it
    did prove that the idea could work. The first shot I made was
    unbelievably smooth when compared to the semi-commercial machine I used
    at home. I then knew that the idea could work, but had to dramatically
    change the design to make it useable.

    Q: Did you always have the air cylinder idea in mind? Or did it develop from the original Rossa?

    The Air Espresso design came from user feedback about the Hand Espresso models. Some don't like the weight of the brass and others struggle with the coordination to turn the handle. I also wanted something that would appeal to a larger group, specifically campers and caravan travelers.

    I would prefer to not use air because of the extra need for a pump, and I originally dismissed the idea because of that problem. I continued to ponder the design and looked into the availability of suitable pumps. I realised that most of the 12v electric car pumps that many people already have would work fine, and as a keen mountain biker, I also had a number of high pressure hand pumps. After I realised that suitable pumps where readily available, I revisited the design. I'm glad I did because the end product far exceeded my expectations as to what it can do. It is an amazing device, and so simple to use.

    A: Will the original Rossa be phased out now? If not, can you compare and contrast the pros and cons of the Rossa and the Air Espresso?

    The Rossa Hand Espresso models are great designs and will remain, but some people don't like the weight of the brass and others struggle to hold the device and turn the handle. The Air Espresso models were designed to overcome those problems and to otherwise offer people another choice. All work great, but are not necessarily suitable for all. The original Rossa Hand Espresso was revised to the Rossa HC to provide more control and improve useability, but the original model will remain because it is more compact than the HC. Again it is about providing choice.

    The main difference between the Hand Espresso and the Air Espresso designs is how the pressure is generated. There is no magic bullet to produce the pressure and control. With the Hand Espresso, you produce the pressure buy turning the handle during extraction. You don't need anything other than manual effort. The Air Espresso works from air, so the cylinder must be charged beforehand. The advantage of this design is that the effort can be less, and no coordination is required to hold the device steady during extraction. I personally like the Air Espresso because I exert all the effort in one go before I make the shot. I charge the cylinder, grind the coffee then sit back and wait for the water to boil and the steamer to heat up. Once all is ready, the remaining effort is minimal. I also like the light weight of the Rossa TR for travel. Hand pumping is not an issue for myself, so the whole setup suits my travel needs more so than the other models.

    Q: Have you ideas for an evolution of the air espresso?

    A: I have ideas, but nothing to share at this stage. I can't see anything replacing either the Hand Espresso or Air Espresso designs, but I want to make variable pressure control (pressure profiling) easier for the average person to understand and control. I have a few ideas about how to do this, but taking an idea to a tangible product that anyone other than myself wants can take some time. I also have some devices I intend to make for my personal use, but not sure if any of them will be added as a new product.

    Q: My girlfriends' sister recently made some quilts for her family. Beautifully done. She said that if she was to calculate the material and labour costs, each quilt would be around $700AUD. Is there a way for you to rationalise the costs of one of your devices to a potential customer?

    A: If I were to rationalise the cost, all products would sell for much higher than what they do. Some people think they're expensive because they are the first high quality portables, and my products are often compared to other portable devices. It's not dissimilar to comparing a cheap car to a performance car. They're both cars, but there are clear differences that most people can understand. Quality espresso requires precise control over the variables, and any device that offers the required level of control must be precisely made. Unfortunately, that level of precision requires care to manufacture, and consequently the costs are higher. A simple way to rationalise the cost from a lay perspective is to compare the cost of a Rossa / Rosco combo with any other machine and grinder that can produce comparable results. You will soon find that the Portaspresso products cost a fraction of any comparable setups.
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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Hmmmm... The silence is deafening... :sic

    It would appear that the lack of 'lever' or 'electronic push button' has left the natives baffled and stunned into mute silence...

    BTW I love Ross's out of the box creative thinking....

    Surely top shelf espresso cannot be achieved with such elegant simplicity :scary :tic

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    Hey there

    I also give him full marks for an innovative product. I hope it sells well. Just looked at the website and some video - very nice machining and great to see someone having a go and making a quality product. Ace.

    Mike

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    For the record, the Rosco mini hand grinder is 1kg.

    Ill be making updates from time to time.

    Should also mention, I do not know Ross from a bar of soap.

    Having said that, his technical support thus far has been great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    PC142904.jpg



    In mid-September 2012 I emailed Ross Spencer at Portaspresso about a Rossa device. The bloke had the integrity to inform me that in a month or so a new model would be available, one lighter and better. So instead of selling an old one, he said to wait.

    I wish he had done the same me, a few months on and I have an expensive out dated coffee maker that has left me somewhat underwhelmed
    The grinder is a totally different story, it's an excellent piece of equipment.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    I'm a tradesman... Giving me permission to say that a poor tradesman often blames his tools... Yet I can achieve fine work using those same tools... :Go figure

    So, is that the tools fault? I think not.

    Understanding the time it can take to fully appreciate the nuances and quirks of a new tool I have said several times that there *is* quite a learning curve to learning and ultimately mastering the Rossa... Particularly the hand crank model that you have.
    It is still being sold so you have not been short changed...

    You only have to read through the Quick Mill thread to quickly realise that even at the pointy end of coffee machines there is a rather steep learning curve which some master quickly and sadly others seem to struggle to grasp...

    Please don't blame the tool.... (Or shoot the messenger) :eek

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    I'm a tradesman... Giving me permission to say that a poor tradesman often blames his tools... Yet I can achieve fine work using those same tools... :Go figure

    So, is that the tools fault? I think not.

    Understanding the time it can take to fully appreciate the nuances and quirks of a new tool I have said several times that there *is* quite a learning curve to learning and ultimately mastering the Rossa... Particularly the hand crank model that you have.
    It is still being sold so you have not been short changed...

    You only have to read through the Quick Mill thread to quickly realise that even at the pointy end of coffee machines there is a rather steep learning curve which some master quickly and sadly others seem to struggle to grasp...

    Please don't blame the tool.... (Or shoot the messenger) :eek
    Does it also give you permission to be rude? suggest you don't talk down too me Grumpy, I'm not an idiot.
    Last edited by Yelta; 21st December 2012 at 03:50 PM.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Nah, I'm neither rude, nor talking down to anyone... Just sayin it how it is...
    Last edited by Javaphile; 22nd December 2012 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Removal of obnoxious/objectional material

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I have an expensive out dated coffee maker
    Your Rossa isn't outdated at all. With its pressure profiling ability (HC model)...it is still way ahead of almost any other machine in the shot controlling stakes. And having the handle as the source of pressure build up means that you don't need to have a separate pump and power source (to operate the pump) to get a shot.

    I actually prefer the Rossa due to its total brass content. The new machine is machined from aluminium, which is of course lighter but a no-go for me. Gran ordered all aluminium cookware out of our house a long time ago.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    One thing I have noticed with the Portapresso products and the Rossa in particular is that it (they- being the products) really polarise people into love/hate positions...
    :curious
    It will be interesting to see if this new version will bridge the middle ground?

    Interesting point about the aluminium construction...

    I've used a cheap aluminium camping brew pot for years and have heard many claim the aluminium effects the taste? Dunno myself, I never noticed it but that could just be a poor palette and my sense of smell is quite poor as well. :interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    Interesting point about the aluminium construction...

    I've used a cheap aluminium camping brew pot for years and have heard many claim the aluminium effects the taste? :interesting
    I am thinking more from the angle of potential health concerns than taste.

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    You dont need an electric pump, thats what i like about it, no electrics.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Perhaps there are genuine health concerns- I honestly don't know.
    But my simple logic tells me at the sub boiling point temperatures ie; <100*C that this device is always used at; that risk is very low.
    After all Brass can de-zincify in certain environmental conditions, Teflon is coming off my frypan as I use it and in certain conditions the fumes will kill my birds, I nuke my food every day with radiation, I breathe the toxic fumes from cars which can and do kill. I'm not trying to be smart- just pointing out we live in a toxic environment and risk is a constant in our lives that we all must manage. Hell, just goin out in the sun gives us Melanoma's and yes at least once a month I am handling friable Asbestos sheeting at work....

    I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just can't see the health risk in using the Rossa air to make a couple of coffee's a day is that great....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    Perhaps there are genuine health concerns- I honestly don't know.
    But my simple logic tells me at the sub boiling point temperatures ie; <100*C that this device is always used at; that risk is very low.
    After all Brass can de-zincify in certain environmental conditions, Teflon is coming off my frypan as I use it and in certain conditions the fumes will kill my birds, I nuke my food every day with radiation, I breathe the toxic fumes from cars which can and do kill. I'm not trying to be smart- just pointing out we live in a toxic environment and risk is a constant in our lives that we all must manage. Hell, just goin out in the sun gives us Melanoma's and yes at least once a month I am handling friable Asbestos sheeting at work....

    I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just can't see the health risk in using the Rossa air to make a couple of coffee's a day is that great....
    I refuse to eat from teflon and aluminium pans....avoid asbestos....don't smoke...only drive a car when I need to...don't use a microwave....don't use a mobile phone for lengthy conversations...in short, I am doing what I consciously can to minimise what I perceive are known risks/concerns.

    I agree that the risk, (if you could call it that) from using an aluminium product to make a few coffees each day would be minimal....but it just seems to be such a backward step and is a deal-breaker for me in what seems to be otherwise another brilliant product.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Fair enough too- like I said we all manage risk in our own way.

    If you don't mind me asking- what material would be acceptable?

    Brass de-zincify's, plastics can leach and moving parts will wear out... As well as being able to tolerate the high operating pressures? Cost must be considered in the real world?
    Is there a material that matches the design criteria of weight/cost/performance?

    Again I'm no materials expert but I can't think of a material other than aluminium that is light weight and would machine to the high tolerances necessary and cope with the high operating pressures and would perform at the high standards Ross works to?

    At the end of the day if you choose not to buy because of the material choice that's entirely ok... We all make that choice in our lives at some point... But I can't see an alternative material that would tick all the boxes?

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    After a bit of confusion with grind size, I can confirm the Air Espresso is a gem.

    I can now consistently make top shelf shots with great ease and control.

    The aluminium did seem to calcify a little from new but the small amount of residue has stabilised.
    Luckily for me Nanna allows aluminium in the kitchen. Although if she didn't I could still make
    coffee outside.

    Tamping does not seem to affect the process so much. As long you get it level. I think this is because
    the shaft sits straight above the basket and when the air pressure is released the water compresses the coffee.

    I can now make a perfect shot, including hand grinding, in about 3 minutes.

    The shots have about 10mm of crema on top.

    The pressure gauge is helpful and I recommend getting one if you're looking at purchasing one of these.

    Going to take the device to my friends place on the weekend and we will compare and contrast with his electric
    machines.
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    Took the Air Espresso to my friends place on the weekend.

    Both used the same grinder, grind size and coffee.

    He has a modified Expobar. I'm not sure what the modifications are.

    We both made shots and compared the taste, crema and smell.

    The first shot I made was a 6 bar continuous flow.

    He said he has his machine programmed for 3 bar then ramped up to 9 bar.

    The second shot I made 9 bar after 2 bar short stop.

    The shots settled to almost identical.

    We didn't establish specific criteria, but it was difficult to pick a clear winner.

    With the Expobar you can make a lot of shots quickly.

    With the Air Espresso you can pressure profile on the fly. And you can take it camping,
    you use a lot less energy and they will last forever.

    There's about a 1500$ difference between the two aswell.

    If you're only making coffee for yourself, there's an obvious winner.

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    Rossa Air Espresso PG (Pressure Gauge) Review

    Thanks Eljimberino for the update...

    Looks like you are still a pioneer of the air-Rossa- well at least the only one owning up to it... I had a laugh

    It would be great if you could take a vid or at least some pics of the air-Rossa in action.
    I've watched Ross on his demo video- but that's not the same as an end user...

    I'd like to get one of these and a mini-grinder combo when I can scrape the $$$ together.. In the meantime I'm enjoying following your experiences...

    :coffee

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    Gday,

    Ross is releasing a vid soon. I know it is not the same as an end user and perhaps I'll post more later.

    Problem with stills is you don't get a sense of what is happening. Theres a few up in the review.

    I dont have sufficient video equipment.

    Once you buy your hand grinder and air espresso you will never need anything else.

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    In anticipation of some up coming travel, I purchased a high volume hand shock pump from Wiggle, a lezyne brand one.

    It weighs 84g.

    Was surprised to find I was able to charge the cylinder enough for a 7 bar shot. Very sufficient.

    With more effort I could charge enough for a 9 bar shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
    I refuse to eat from teflon and aluminium pans....avoid asbestos....don't smoke...only drive a car when I need to...don't use a microwave....don't use a mobile phone for lengthy conversations...in short, I am doing what I consciously can to minimise what I perceive are known risks/concerns.

    I agree that the risk, (if you could call it that) from using an aluminium product to make a few coffees each day would be minimal....but it just seems to be such a backward step and is a deal-breaker for me in what seems to be otherwise another brilliant product.

    Hi Paolo,

    I'm health concious like you, I always try to minimize risks, but Grumpy is right. Also, there is a risk in everything. Brass has lead content inside. I checked with Ross as well. But it is under the Australian limits. Touching the water for less then a minute, below 100 C (the device itself is not getting heated) the risk is minimal if not zero.

    By the way the brass did not bother you when you purchased the Rossa?

    Tamás
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    Quote Originally Posted by beo1329 View Post
    Hi Paolo,



    By the way the brass did not bother you when you purchased the Rossa?
    No it didn't. Isn't it weird the way that each of us draws a different line in the sand.

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    In anticipation of some up coming travel, I purchased a high volume hand shock pump from Wiggle, a lezyne brand one.
    @eljimberino

    Hi, just wondering if you or anyone else has an update? : curious

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    @eljimberino

    Hi, just wondering if you or anyone else has an update? : curious

    I now have one of the brass air Rossas with a gauge. It is SO much more user-friendly than the HC model. I get phenomenal results every time.

    As a bonus, it is a work of (industrial) art and a joy to use.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by beo1329 View Post
    Hi Paolo,

    I'm health concious like you, I always try to minimize risks, but Grumpy is right. Also, there is a risk in everything. Brass has lead content inside. I checked with Ross as well. But it is under the Australian limits. Touching the water for less then a minute, below 100 C (the device itself is not getting heated) the risk is minimal if not zero.

    By the way the brass did not bother you when you purchased the Rossa?

    Tamás
    The US FDA Food Code 2009 states:

    4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
    (A) Except as specified in ¶ (B) of this section, copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator. P
    (B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the prefermentation and fermentation steps of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or microbrewery.

    FDA Food Code 2009: Chapter 4 - Equipment, Utensils & Linens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz. View Post
    The US FDA Food Code 2009 states:

    4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
    (A) Except as specified in ¶ (B) of this section, copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator. P
    (B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the prefermentation and fermentation steps of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or microbrewery.

    FDA Food Code 2009: Chapter 4 - Equipment, Utensils & Linens

    Please see this link: Safety of hard anodized pots, pans, & aluminum cookware

    From the link:
    The vast majority of mainstream scientists now believe that if aluminum plays any role at all in Alzheimer's, that role is small."
    ". . . most mainstream health professionals believe, based on current knowledge, that exposure to aluminum is not a significant risk factor. Public health bodies sharing this conviction include the World Health Organization (WHO), the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Health Canada."
    "Further, it is unlikely that people can significantly reduce their exposure to aluminum through such measures as avoiding aluminum-containing cookware, foil, beverage cans, medications and other products. "

    I will get back you with an update, because I ordered an aluminium version.

  28. #28
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    @Paolo
    Woohoo, way to go...

    I didn't even know Ross was making the air model in Brass, there you go....
    I wonder what he'll come up with next?

    It will be great when a few more people get on board and the numbers reach that 'critical mass' where things start developing a life of their own...

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    @eljimberino

    Hi, just wondering if you or anyone else has an update? : curious
    Update?

    It's awesome. I bought a full sized floor pump, a travel drive that fits in my suitcase and a shock pump on the travel as a back up.

    Did use the hand pump on a previous trip and it works fine, just takes a little longer.

    England have picked up their game in terms of good beans.

    Scotland is a massive joke.

    France is a joke.

    Spain the same.

    Italy is next. We'll see. Don't have high hopes.

    In short, if I have access to good beans, I can make better coffee than anywhere I can buy it.

    I dare say I can make better coffee than any electric grinder/electric machine combo.

    The combination of hand grinding (lower temp) to bean density (read slower), and pressure profiling, ensures the best possible shot.

    How's that for an update?

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    Which model of the lezyne do you have? Until how many bars can you charge the cylinder?

    Thanks

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Update?

    How's that for an update?
    Pretty Damn impressive!

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz. View Post
    The US FDA Food Code 2009 states:

    4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
    (A) Except as specified in ¶ (B) of this section, copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine or for a fitting or tubing installed between a backflow prevention device and a carbonator. P
    (B) Copper and copper alloys may be used in contact with beer brewing ingredients that have a pH below 6 in the prefermentation and fermentation steps of a beer brewing operation such as a brewpub or microbrewery.

    FDA Food Code 2009: Chapter 4 - Equipment, Utensils & Linens
    Well coffee is usually below 6. Here is a link:
    HealthWiseCoffee.com » HealthWise Coffee Announces Results of its

    Also B section does not mention coffee, only beer.

    From this I take that coffee is acidic enough not be used with brass. But I've also found articles which mention that it's safe. It's like with aluminium. You never know. And you can't avoid everything, because there is a health risk in almost everything...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by beo1329 View Post
    Which model of the lezyne do you have? Until how many bars can you charge the cylinder?

    Thanks

    Hi. Yes i wasnt very clear before.

    I have two lezyne pumps. The first and main pump is the travel floor drive. I can charge the cylinder up to about 200psi - off the gauge - on that pump.

    The second is a lezyne high pressure shock pump. With a bit of effort I can get that one up to about 160psi. This pump takes about 25 strokes to charge the cylinder whereas the floor drive about 4.

    120-140psi is fine for a 6 bar shot.


    Think I was a little cocky in my previous comments before. But in general I think I am correct.

    For example. In Montpellier there is one shop that sell coffee beans. The beans are stored in big plastic bins and the beans are scooped out and put in a bag. They are not that fresh.

    Other than this you either buy beans from the supermarket, or go to a cafe.

    A cafe with high turn over will sell ok coffee. But almost all seem to take no care in how their beans are roasted and stored.

    Please note, I am talking in general, just walking around, asking a few people.

  34. #34
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    Hey, you can only take it, as you find it....

    I would imagine, that with more time, you would find 'the hidden gems' that are true passionate artisans, much like trying to find the good brews here....

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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Hi. Yes i wasnt very clear before.

    I have two lezyne pumps. The first and main pump is the travel floor drive. I can charge the cylinder up to about 200psi - off the gauge - on that pump.

    The second is a lezyne high pressure shock pump. With a bit of effort I can get that one up to about 160psi. This pump takes about 25 strokes to charge the cylinder whereas the floor drive about 4.

    120-140psi is fine for a 6 bar shot.


    Think I was a little cocky in my previous comments before. But in general I think I am correct.

    For example. In Montpellier there is one shop that sell coffee beans. The beans are stored in big plastic bins and the beans are scooped out and put in a bag. They are not that fresh.

    Other than this you either buy beans from the supermarket, or go to a cafe.

    A cafe with high turn over will sell ok coffee. But almost all seem to take no care in how their beans are roasted and stored.

    Please note, I am talking in general, just walking around, asking a few people.
    I'm getting my PG next weekend. I'll get a shock pump immediately after that. I'll let you know how it works out.
    thegoner likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beo1329 View Post
    I'm getting my PG next weekend. I'll get a shock pump immediately after that. I'll let you know how it works out.
    My PG has arrived last weekend.

    I bought a Scott shock pump (40 bar) and I managed to pump up the cylinder up to 19 bar. I managed to keep the pressure at a constant 9 bar.
    After the third try I managed to make espresso that is similar to the Bacchi made espresso. Which is very good by the way.

    My conclusion so far is that while the Bacchi is better for home use (because you don't have to clean it immediately after, therefore it takes less time to prepare espresso in the morning), the Rossa makes similar espresso and only the cleanup process takes longer. With the Rossa you have more versatility as well.

    Overall I recommend this product, it is quite expensive, but if you take care of it and you clean it properly, it will last a long time.

  37. #37
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    Cool man. After a while you 'should' be able to better the Bacchi.

    Try mucking around with pre-infusion pressures and maximum pressures.

    Thanks for the tip on the shock pump.

    Keep posting in here about your experiences please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Cool man. After a while you 'should' be able to better the Bacchi.

    Try mucking around with pre-infusion pressures and maximum pressures.

    Thanks for the tip on the shock pump.

    Keep posting in here about your experiences please.
    After the third try the espresso taste was similar to the Bacchi made espresso.

    I'm satisfied, but I'll keep the Bacchi. In the morning it's easier to prepare the coffee , while I'mm brushing my teeth, half sleeping

    I plan to post a video as well, when I order my new freshly roasted beans. Now my beans are not totally fresh. I'll make a coffee on the Bacchi and the Rossa as well. I suppose both of them will make excellent espressos, the Bacchi has been proven to make great espressos, long time ago.
    My point is, I will prove that the Rossa can make the same quality as a portable solution.

    Regarding shock pumps. If you buy a shock pump , which is certified to work until 40 bar, then you can charge the cylinder up to the maximum (but if you want a constant 9 bar pressure to prepare 60 ml - double shot - with the Rossa, you should charge up the cylinder until 19 bar - 20 is the maximum allowed)

  39. #39
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    I have had a Rossa PG for over a month now. It makes simply astounding espresso. I have an assortment of high end machines but this one takes the award for making the best espresso.

    The biggest eye-opener for me besides the quality of the shots that this device can make is the fact that, in spite of being able to make shots at any desired extraction pressure, those made at the low pressures around 6 to 7 Bar are the most sublime.

    The "9 Bar is optimum" mantra is simply not true (to my taste buds).

    Beo1329....go against coffee convention and hold your maximum extraction at 6 to 7 Bar and then compare against Bacchi. Let me know what you think when you have some really freshly-roasted coffee. With the Rossa PG I have also noticed that the coffee beans that make the best shots are those that are 1-6 days post-roast. From day 6 post-roast there is a noticeable decline in flavour profiles.

    You can probably tell that I am really happy with my Air Rossa.
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  40. #40
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    Paolo, I've only done 9 bar extractions, because I would like to compare apples to apples. I don't want to reset the Bacchi valve to 6 bar extraction, but it can be done easily.
    The reason of the nine bar extraction is to keep the variables constant for both devices and see how the espresso tastes.

    Of course I will experiment with 6-7 bar extractions in the future as well. Thanks.

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    Good stuff

    Beo...be sure to invest in a high quality water filter.

    The Air is the way to go in my opinion. Pressure control is much greater than with the crank model.

    Paolo...given the your 'best' shot from a crank model, can you say which you prefer?

    Can you account for the flavour decline after day 6 Paolo? I would have thought bean flavour would be the same regardless of machine. Are you using a hand grinder too?

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    Beo: how long are you holding your shots at or below 1 bar before you go up to 9 bar?

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    I'll measure it tomorrow. But just as an indication: I open the valve and I wait until pressure starts to build up. For a couple of seconds, you cannot see anything one the gauge. When pressure starts to show, it is going up slowly until 1 bar. After noticing this, I open the valve until pressure goes up fast until 9 or 6, depending on choice.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    The Air is the way to go in my opinion. Pressure control is much greater than with the crank model.

    Paolo...given the your 'best' shot from a crank model, can you say which you prefer?

    Can you account for the flavour decline after day 6 Paolo? I would have thought bean flavour would be the same regardless of machine. Are you using a hand grinder too?
    I prefer the air model and its extra control. I can get as good results with the HC but not as consistently as with the air model.

    The flavour decline is evident in all of my machines.

    I tend to use my Pharos grinder (almost exclusively) with the Rossa.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Good stuff

    Beo...be sure to invest in a high quality water filter.
    Read this:
    The Londinium Espresso Blog: The best water for your espresso machine

    I'm using a similar mineral water. The reason why I don't have a water filter, just a shower filter, is that I live in Dubai, for now, but I don't plan to live all my live here, just a couple of years, so I don't want to invest in something expensive and bulky.
    Some mineral waters are just as good as heavily filtered tap water. Also Dubai tap water is so bad, that if you start to shower with it, you start loosing hair. That's why I have a shower filter.
    eljimberino likes this.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by beo1329 View Post
    I plan to post a video as well, when I order my new freshly roasted beans. Now my beans are not totally fresh. I'll make a coffee on the Bacchi and the Rossa as well. I suppose both of them will make excellent espressos, the Bacchi has been proven to make great espressos, long time ago.
    My point is, I will prove that the Rossa can make the same quality as a portable solution.
    Any Rossa owner willing to take some time to post some user-videos? I've exhausted Ross's video and they're very nice & educational. But some videos from the actual owners would probably be more interesting & maybe relevant (as in new owner using new equipment).
    thegoner likes this.

  47. #47
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    I just demoed the PG AIR brass model with Ross from portaspresso yesterday, and ive gotta say wow, it makes a very nice espresso, doing a quick demo with old home roasted beans and a kettle on a gas cartridge campstove by the side of the road, i had a top notch drink with tonnes of flavour, sweetness and crema. Almost as good as my commercial lever makes

  48. #48
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    Since I've got the Rossa Air and very happy with it, I've posted quite a few videos on the youtube. Just search for Rossa PG.

    By the way, Is there anyone in Melbourne kind enough with Rossa HC model? I am curious to try and compare between the two(Air vs HC), but doesn't have the cream to spend on another set. :P Just shoot me a pm if you're around.

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