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Thread: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

  1. #1
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    Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi all,

    I have recently (under three weeks ago) purchased this machine, along with a krups grinder (GVX2) and a Sunbeam bang bang waste box. I know this isnt quite as nice as the ever popular silvia / rocky setup but it is a setup I was quite proud of up until today, as I had been making some nice coffee using fresh beans from a little roaster with an online shop. When I say nice, I mean a hell of a lot better than I have ever had at home before (previously using french press and supermarket coffee)

    So anyway, I have been reading this site and others, tasting new beans, trying different grinds of previous ones, playing with tamps, working on my milk, attempting late art (which I just cannot do btw :) but thats another story) but anyway. So over the three weeks since I have had it, it has been in constant use. I mean I work full time so not all day, but I have been pulling at at least 10 double shots a day from it (I dont drink them all :D some are just practice / for others) I know this is a personal machine and nothing like a high use cafe machine, but even so I thought this machine could deal with it.

    This morning whilst making my coffee, the handle / head came off and sent coffee and grinds everywhere. This annoyed me somewhat, but after reading the manual and finding I had done everything right (and pretty much as per the previous however many shots) I put it down to me not paying attention and not securing the handle correctly. But then this afternoon, it happened again! This time it wasnt on the metal cups they had provided but on the fine itialian espresso glasses my girlfriend had sourced for me! It cracked them, and sent hot water everywhere. Now, this was just a warmup shot (to get the glasses and head nice and warm) so it was definitely not my grind or tamp as the manual suggests, and as this happened this morning I had been very careful when securing everything so it was not that. The manual says the rubber needs to be replaced every 6-12 months and I have had the machine less than three weeks so the only thing I can see it being is a defective head.

    Anyway, I am not all that impressed anymore and am wondering what I should do about it. Of course I will contact a service center tomorrow and see what they suggest, but what do you guys think? I dont know if I should stay with this machine. I am still very much an amature at this stuff, so would it be a waste of money shelling out for say a silvia? Should I demand my money back and get sunbeams new paul bassett machine? I am just not comfortable putting nice cups under this machine anymore :(

    What do you all think? Should I just fix my current machine and spend a little more on a nice tamp and some more quality coffee? (I am still using the plastic tamper that came with the machine) or should I get my money back and go with something else? Am I being unreasonable / silly not wanting to place nice cups under this machine anymore?

    Thanks for any replies and sorry about the essay :)


    More Information:
    Grinder - http://www.krups.com/krups/All+Products/Coffee+Grinders/Products/GVX2/GVX2.htm
    Machine - http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_id=279&sec_id=26
    Grinds Bin - http://www.sunbeam.com.au/products/product_details.cfm?rec_id=342&sec_id=21

  2. #2
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    ok if this alsp happened on the warm up cycle where you actually have no coffee grinds in the filter, then it may well indicate that your coffee filter is blocked up with fines and needs to be cleared....that is, it is placing a lot of back pressure against the flow of water / pumping pressure through the group, and the resulting hydraulic pressure takes the path of least resistance which is to unwind / blow the group handle off the group.

    Clearing the filter should fix the problem & if all this is the case, this is normal wear and tear and is not a warrantable problem.

    .....you could be grinding the coffee too fine for this domestic machine.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  3. #3
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    I owned a sunbeam machine for nearly 2 years, so Im very familiar with the problem, and I feel your pain!

    From what I could see, it comes down to two problems:

    1. The dual-wall crema enhancing basket - at the bottom of the basket is a little chamber. All of the holes at the inside bottom of the basket flow into this little chamber, where there is a build up of pressure, and it all jets out of that one little hole at the outside bottom of the basket, frothing up the coffee.

    As FC mentioned, the holes at the bottom of the basket can get clogged, so can teh hole at the bottom. But what also happens is that the little chamber builds up with coffee oils and gunk over time, and eventually nothing gets through at all.

    My solutions were to wash them out thoroughly every night (as in, put them in the sink/dishwasher), insert the portafilter and bakset with no coffee and run water through it at the end of the day, then take out the basket and shake it over the sink (youll hear water sloshing around inside the little chamber) till theres no sloshing sound ... and every couple of weeks soak them in citric acid (you can buy little tubs of it for less than $2) - try about half a tablespoon, in a bowl with enough hot water to cover the basket. Then just sit the basket on the surface of the water, which will slowly work its way through the chamber, into the main part of the basket, until the basket sinks. then just let it soak for an hour or so. Obviously you want to rinse it all off before brewing another shot.

    2. the other problem is the design of the group head seal. Its soft rubber, so it stretches easily - youll often get leaks around the seal, and if you load your basket with too much fresh coffee, it will just allow the pf to blow out as the coffee expands.

    This happens regularly during shots, or at least it did for me. My solution? Use one hand to hold the pf handle in place, the other hand to secure the machine. If you use the manual button to brew rather than the volumetric dose buttons, your nose is a good button presser to stop the shot!

    If youre not keen to spend more money for a while, this machine will do you well. You can look into different baskets so theres no crema-enhancing chamber, and a few other modifications - but theyre still a nice little machine if you dont mind what Ive said above ... all machines have their little quirks and problems.

    RE: milk frothing/latte art - you may have already done this, but removing the rubber froth-enhancer does wonders. Read the milk frothing guide over at CoffeeGeek, and youll be pouring macchiarti in no time! If you check out the first page of the macchiarti thread, the first photo was made on my old sunbeam.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi there FC,

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    I did guess this and used the provided cleaning spike to clean the filter to the best of my ability. It didnt appear blocked but as it has two floors (a crema enhancer or some such) it is hard to tell. It has not happened since, but this is probably because I have held onto the handle every time (this gets tedious....)

    I will try some courser grinds when I get home this afternoon and see how I go.

    Thanks again for the help!

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    mattyj thank you so much for your reply!

    I do remember reading something about a replacement basket, come to think of it it was probably a post by you :) I will look into getting one of these as soon as I can.

    I have removed the froth enhancer device, I am getting to a point where I can make some nice looking milk. To my untrained eye it even looks like the micro-foam everyone talks about, but I am sure I am just dreaming :) Once I removed the froth enhancer it took me a good while to get the milk to froth without the machine screeching like an injured animal!

    What other modifications did you make to your sunbeam? Did you stick with the plastic tamp or source another one?

    What have you upgraded too?

    Thanks for your post and encouragement, I might stick with this for as long as I can. I will see how I go :)

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Muzzi,
    I too know your pain… the EM5800 was also the undoing of a number of my treasured coffee cups. It got to the point where a never took my hand of the pf handle. A face full of broken glass and hot grinds sucks, is dangerous, and is the reason that my wife will never touch that machine again!

    RE basket replacements - while much talked about on various forums by helpful members such as mattyj… they are very hard to find! The particular one matty was talking about is no longer carried by krups.. although I wouldn’t be sure as all krups staff I talked to have obviously never used or even seen one of their own machines.

    I ended up drilling about 20 more tiny holes in the underside of the filter basket to try and bypass the dual wall system.. I don’t recommend that as it was time consuming, stupid and didn’t really work. After I got a new basket the handle snapped of the porta filler! Over three weeks to get a new one from the great people at Sunbeam and to cut a long story short I now own a Silvia.

    I know that I could of got this machine to perform if I had persevered so please don’t listen to my ranting, I was just trying to reassure you that you’re not alone. Listen to the encouragement and helpful advice of those above. Make sure you post your art (I’m still crap) and please let us know if you do source a new double basket. I would still love to get hold of one for the EM5800’s new owners.

    Cheers,
    Matt

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Sunbeam, eh. Dont they make electric blankets? Enough said.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, dont need to buy no stinking new or replacement "baskets"....

    As long as the filter is made of stainless steel ONLY and there are no other substances particularly plastic etc in there, then the situation is easily taken care of....

    Place the bottom of the filter straight into the flame of a gas cooktop or BBQ or use a butane torch and literally, burn the crap out that which is blocking the free passage of wet coffee through the bottom of the filter.

    This can also be done by placing the filter straight down onto an electric "ring"....

    But of course it wont work with induction cook tops.

    Beware, the smell of burning coffee "dregs paste" *and the resulting smoke is hard to take and will linger in the house so use the exhaust fan or do it outside..

    After a few minutes pick the filter up with pliers and cool under water...you can also take outside and spray it with the high pressure hose after the above "burn" treatment..to clear the carbon.

    Away you go again until the next time....

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    yeah, you can do that ... but Im talking about the sunbeam dual-wall baskets ... maybe you havent seen them, FC.

    Below is a photo of the inside of a sunbeam double basket (top), and the krups basket, which seems to be hard to get now.


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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    ... and heres a pic of the bottoms of the filter baskets. Look closely. Notice that the sunbeam (again, top) has a few divots, but only one tiny hole in the middle. The krups (bottom) is just like any normal 53mm basket. No crema-enhancing doo-dads.


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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    the end result is that theres a small chamber added onto the bottom of the basket, which adds back pressure, frothing up the coffee to make crema. Ill leave it for you to decide if its real crema or not.

    the other end result is that even if you burn out all the coffee crud, it will still be stuck in this chamber which you cant pull apart ... heres a pic from the sunbeam site as to how it works...


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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzi link=1128380756/0#4 date=1128386481
    What other modifications did you make to your sunbeam? Did you stick with the plastic tamp or source another one?

    What have you upgraded too?
    Well ...

    I broke a lug off my portafilter doing the above! My sunbeam came with a light aluminium portafilter (they put a weight in the handle to make it feel heavy!), so it snapped pretty quickly. I bought a chromed brass pf to replace it, its the same as your machines portafilter.

    I took out the black plastic stabilising baffle from inside the portafilter and plugged up the screw hole with a screw, washer and nut - I found that all it did was to make an uneven pour (70% out of one spout, 30% out of the other), and coffee would flow underneath it, get stuck there and go rancid. It would start to stink after a couple of days.

    And I got the basket pictured above.

    I recently upgraded to an Expobar Office Pulser - mainly because the sunbeam was suffering from some internal bleeding (you know theres something worng when it starts leaking from the casing during a shot!), and it would take forever to make enough coffees when friends come over, which is very often.

    Otherwise, I got some really good shots out of it! It taught me a lot of the practical stuff of dosing, tamping, milk frothing etc etc.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Muzzi, when you say "the handle came of" I presume there are no broken lugs, and it unwound itself off the group head. I used to have a machine which caused this when the pressure became excessive. The 2 causes were: coffee ground too fine, and, more frequently, a dirty, blocked shower screen, gunked up with dregs.

    Have you removed the screen and cleaned it? Water and a scrubbing brush will do the job.

    I cant see how an improper seal would cause the portafilter to fall off. The leakage of pressure should ensure the portafilter stays in place, as there would be nothing to unscrrew it.


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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Yes Matty I am familiar with the double bottomed filters and I cant see why the method described wont work....and it wont cost anything but a few minutes time to try.

    Or,

    if as you say the krups single skins are hard to get, Muzzi could take his group handle and double bottom filter along to the nearest saeco reseller & see if their standard single skinned domestic filters can be interchanged....

    Or,

    if the saeco filters dont fit and if Muzzi is up to spending a few dollars more, he could soak the offending filters in (commercial) espresso machine "cleaner" at an arbitrary interval of say....once a week. The "cleaner" is readily available from any commercial espresso machine service provider & is specifically intended for the purpose of removing such oily pasty desposits from the groups of commercial esp machines....should therefore work very well on the double bottomed filters.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1128380756/0#12 date=1128404186
    I cant see how an improper seal would cause the portafilter to fall off. The leakage of pressure should ensure the portafilter stays in place, as there would be nothing to unscrrew it.
    If it doesnt start leaking until pressure starts to build up in the portafilter when the leak starts the water acts as a lubricant between the PF and the seal with the pressure inside the PF then able to blow the PF off.

    Java "Dont ya love physics?" phile

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi muzzi

    Im a fellow Sunbeam owner, so I share your pain with this problem also! As matty has said, I also hold the pf in during every shot, and have had the horrible experience of broken cups, and burns from coffee grounds attacking my face! :( That happens once, and you soon learn to never let go of that bloody handle. As for the filter baskets... I took mattys advice and replaced it with krups baskets (I got a single and a double filter posted to my door for $12 about a month ago!) Definatly the best money I have spent in a long time, it totally transformed my espresso! It was like I had a new machine, the difference really was quite amazing.

    Ben

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Thats great news Mearesy! :)
    WHO did you talk to and exactly WHAT did you order? I actually took my portafiller into the store but had no luck finding one that whould fit. Did you also have the EM5800?
    $12.... My replacment Sunbeam dual wall ones cost me more than that and I had to go and pick them up!
    Matt

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi Matt
    No mate, I have the "Cafe Crema" (lucky me, hey? :-?) What I did was call the National number for Krups - (61) 2 97 48 79 44. I then asked them where my nearest service centre for krups is, and they gave me contact details for them. I live in Toowoomba, SE QLD and so my nearest service centre was on the gold coast.

    So.. gave them a call and asked if I could order part #0907163 which is the double filter basket. I also asked if they were able to source the single filter basket as well, and they were able to find out what part number that was and ordered me both. Sorry, but Im not sure what the part number is for the single. A week or so later, they arrived in the mail and a grin came over my face as I poured my first wonderfuly improved non-pressurised shot :D

    Hope that helps! All credit goes to mattyj on this one, he told me everything I have written here, so thanks matty! Certianly worth the effort in tracking one down though, I cannot stress enough the difference it made to my shots!

    Ben

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Mearesy link=1128380756/15#17 date=1128422651
    All credit goes to mattyj on this one, he told me everything I have written here, so thanks matty! *Certianly worth the effort in tracking one down though, I cannot stress enough the difference it made to my shots!

    Ben
    No worries! It was really good to get that email from you when the basket first arrived - you were soooo stoked, and that was reward enough for me.

    FC, before I tried a krups basket, I pulled a basket out of a saeco machine in Myers, walked over to a sunbeam, took its basket out and tried to fit the saeco basket into the portafilter - it was a mm or so too big (width-wise). That was my first line of thinking, until I saw a friends krups, which had a similar basket, and just happened to fit like a glove.

    As for the pressure blowing out the pf, Im no physicist, but what Java said matches my experience. Ive noticed that with the blind basket in on my expobar, I can move the pf a bit, until the pressure builds up, then theres no way it will move ... which was exactly the opposite to the sunbeam.

    Also, another thing I was noticing on the sunbeam was that fine grounds were able to work themselves into a gap between the seal and the edge of the shower screen, over a little lip on the upper side of the shower screen, and from there outside the pf. If it wasnt cleaned out every week, the grounds would open up the seal a bit more, and it would leak all the time.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Wow! This thread has turned into a gold mine! Thanks for all the information guys! I really appreciate it!

    I have decided I will be sticking to this machine for now I think. I will find some krups baskets and just hold the pf. I will put a few dollars away a week and get a silvia when the time is right :)

    I really am stoked at the amount of information you guys have provided! Thank you all so much :)

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Glad to be able to help Muzzi! :) ;)

    Ben

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi Guys,

    Dont know whether they would be a direct swap fit or not, but the La Spaziale S1 uses 53mm baskets, with the double holding about 18 grams of coffee... that would be a delightfully rich brew. Might be too deep to fit in a Sunbeam PF though, would have to be checked out. Anyway, might be another option :)...

    Mal.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Just in case anyone needs this information...

    Part number for the Krups non-pressurised double basket is MS0907163, $11.12+GST.
    Number for the non-pressurised single basket is MS0925592, $13.84+GST

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by joe-camel link=1128380756/15#22 date=1149484261
    Just in case anyone needs this information...

    Part number for the Krups non-pressurised double basket is MS0907163, $11.12+GST.
    Number for the non-pressurised single basket is MS0925592, $13.84+GST
    I am just picking up my 4th Krups #0907163 coffee basket as it makes all the diference.

    We have also looked at the timing of the pump in Steam Mode and have changed the standard cycle rate of some 600ms to about 900ms and the diference in dryness etc is just great. Kualityman is doing some further testing at the moment and I am guessing that the cct on most of the low end EM range is the same.

    At the end of the day, the Krups filter basket and the change to the steam makes the EM4800 etc a great unit.




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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    I bought my EM5800 a month ago. I work in cafes and restaurants and have been well trained in the art of coffee, though I am no Barista, merely a lowly chef : ( . In my experience (15 years in the industry as a chef, 7 years as a head chef), Ive recently discovered the Cafe Series from Sunbeam - an Australian company that designs this series for semi-commercial and home purposes - though manufactured in China, the same as Breville, even the wording on the packaging is identical, does Sunbeam own Breville, or vis-a-versa?

    I have had nothing but *better than Cafe coffee from this machine. Mind you, most coffee shop employees wouldnt know a good coffee if they fell over it. Disclaimer - I live in Hervey Bay (QLD), not the centre of the coffee world i.e. Melbourne and Sydney. Most coffees here taste of coffee and heated milk, not the velvety smooth texture that I can produce from this low cost machine ($319 from The Good Guys, Hervey Bay). Anyhow, Ive always noticed that this machine vibrates a lot, which didnt worry me until today, the group handle vibrated right off the machine and into my cup! Oh well, I guess Ill be holding the handle from now on. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Ive had this machine for just under 2 months and so far its been a great unit, coffee is brilliant and certainly better than that mass produced GJs.

    There is a problem that has raised its ugly head though, when the Espresso is pouring from the machine, after about 2 seconds, it goes to a high pressure spit rather than a pour, this ruins the crema and it makes the taste quite bitter.

    It never did this when new and the coffee that it is pouring at the moment is quite weak as you have to can the Espresso before it starts to spit.

    Please help!! What is going wrong and what will sort it?

    Should i invest in a Krups basket, could that be the problem?

    post edited by 2mcm....New members advised to keep it nice please ;)

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Sounds like youre running into channeling problems. Check the puck for signs of channeling and if present work on your tamping skills.

    Java "Gotta have the tamp down!" phile

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    I have been battling the same problem with the same machine for the last 2-3 weeks, and today I managed to get a really nice result by really packing the portafilter and tamping down with a lot of pressure. I basically really leaned in during the tamp (I weigh 85 kgs) at the end, and before I had done packed the coffee in by using my thumb (from one side to the next).

    Previously my pucks had channeling signs on the sides, but this time it just had the indentation from the screw that holds the brewing head, and nothing else! I hope to soon get a pullman tamper that will make tamping a bit easier, but this looks like a quick fix.

    I agree that this problem was not present from the beginning, but appears after a few weeks. Not sure why that is though. Hope this helps.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Well funnily enough i just pulled the best shot in weeks :)

    I did exactly that, really put alot of weight onto it, probably 30kgs of weight and al that was left was a sign of the screw hole from the head and certainly no channelling.

    Is this machine just fussy with a tamping technique or was I just doing it wrong from the start and fluking it...

  30. #30
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaqjaq link=1128380756/15#28 date=1160212699
    Is this machine just fussy with a tamping technique or was I just doing it wrong from the start and fluking it...
    Are you using a good quality grinder to grind the beans immediately prior to brewing or are you using preground beans? If the latter then thats a problem. :(

    With any halfway decent espresso machine the tamp is critical as are several other steps in the process (like having a good grinder). Failure of any one of those steps will prevent you from obtaining a great shot, let alone being able to do it consistantly.

    Java "Espresso is a process, a very exacting one." phile

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    For those that need to replace the PF head seal (what ever you call it) Krups have just upgraded theirs and it fits the Sunbeam ones (3600 and the 4800 for eg) and assming that it will do the 5800 as well.

    You may need to confirm, but I understand it is MS-6230342 and it has an extra lip that helps to seal if and when the preasure builds up... Thus reducing the likley hood of a leak or a blow off that some of us have had after the seals get old or we push ther limits of our machines.

    AM

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Sunbeam upgraded their seals some time ago - probably exactly the same part.

    FWIW after a few months the bigger lip on mine is getting pretty ragged and torn... but it doesnt leak... (touch wood)

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hi All, *

    A newbie here with a problem with the Krups filters in his Sunbeam EM3600. I thought Id try the Krups PF basket tweak, and picked up the one- and two-cup numbers described in this thread. *After putting them in and firing it up Ive found they are clogging much more readily that the original pressurised Sunbeam baskets! What am I doing wrong? I havent even been able to get a single shot to go through without bubbling and water running out from the group head.

    The grind Im using works quite reliably in the sunbeam filter without clogging. But with the Krups PF, only a few trickles of espresso pours before the flow slows to a drip and then the PF gasket blows and leaks all over the place. Needless to say, cleaning it up every time isnt much fun...

    Is it possible the unpressurised PF needs a coarser grind than the crema enhanced one? I would have thought the opposite. Or could it be more sensitive to the old Braun burr grinder that Im using thats on its last legs. Its all very strange because I even tried half-filling the Krups PF and hardly tamping at all, and it clogs every time. The pressure seems totally irrelevant. Help!

  34. #34
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Gday mahahari,

    A BIG welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif].

    I guess before we can be of any real help to you, we need to know what type of grinder you have and on what setting is it? Hear from ya soon,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Ive been reading through threads like this one gathering info, and am about to do the changeover to the Krups baskets. So for the next newbie that comes along and is looking for the baskets, the Melbourne metro service centres have the following prices:

    Home Spares, Box Hill (03 9899 0587) - $11 for the single, $9 for the double. No singles in stock
    Ellis Electrical, Dandenong (9791 1486) - mentioned here by another poster - both in stock, $12 each, $10 postage if required, very helpful bloke
    All Appliance Service & Sales, Heidelberg (9459 9848) - singles and doubles $22 each!!
    Kinnear Electrical Appliance Repairs, West Brunswick (9387 9531) - guy was pretty rude and unhelpful so I didnt bother asking.

    hope thats useful to someone...

    J

  36. #36
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by mahahari link=1128380756/30#32 date=1160467398
    Hi All,

    A newbie here with a problem with the Krups filters in his Sunbeam EM3600. I thought Id try the Krups PF basket tweak, and picked up the one- and two-cup numbers described in this thread. After putting them in and firing it up Ive found they are clogging much more readily that the original pressurised Sunbeam baskets! What am I doing wrong? I havent even been able to get a single shot to go through without bubbling and water running out from the group head.

    The grind Im using works quite reliably in the sunbeam filter without clogging. But with the Krups PF, only a few trickles of espresso pours before the flow slows to a drip and then the PF gasket blows and leaks all over the place. Needless to say, cleaning it up every time isnt much fun...

    Is it possible the unpressurised PF needs a coarser grind than the crema enhanced one? I would have thought the opposite. Or could it be more sensitive to the old Braun burr grinder that Im using thats on its last legs. Its all very strange because I even tried half-filling the Krups PF and hardly tamping at all, and it clogs every time. The pressure seems totally irrelevant. Help!
    Interesting... I use a Krups basket and grind almost a fine as I can ( Modified KG100) and then a solid tamp.

    1: Lock in the Group
    2: Flick the switch
    3: The EM 3600 does its little pre pump and the pauses for a moment
    4: NO Coffee at this stage
    5: Pump kicks in again
    6: After a pause the Coffee will start to appear as a fine trickle (May have to hold the Group in place)
    7: A good colour and more of a flow
    8: Starts to get either a strong blond look OR the flow will increase with a real blond colour
    9: Flick the switch
    10: Look around to see if the wife in close by, if not then enjoy the raw necter
    10a: Wife around, then flick the steam switch and get the milk in the jug
    11: Froth milk, look interested, drink coffee together, pretend to be interested while tossing up how I can get another coffee machine :-)

    PS. Your Group seal could be stuffed ($6) and while the Sunbeam one has changed, I have it on good authorty that the Krups seal is better.

    AM

  37. #37
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by mahahari link=1128380756/30#32 date=1160467398
    Hi All,

    A newbie here with a problem with the Krups filters in his Sunbeam EM3600. I thought Id try the Krups PF basket tweak, and picked up the one- and two-cup numbers described in this thread. After putting them in and firing it up Ive found they are clogging much more readily that the original pressurised Sunbeam baskets! What am I doing wrong? I havent even been able to get a single shot to go through without bubbling and water running out from the group head.
    Funny - I just did the switch to the non-pressurised baskets, and Im having this problem too, and remembered there was an old thread about it here.

    My take on it is that, at least with my machine, theres two things happening:

    First, the Krups baskets sit a tiny little bit lower in the pf than the Sunbeam baskets. The Sunbeams have a little lip all the way around the top, which I guess comes into contact with the group seal. So, depending on how tightly you can lock in your portafilter, it might be a problem, or it might not.

    Which brings me to the second problem - my original pf broke, and the replacement they sent me doesnt fit quite as snugly as the old one. I have to turn it all the way to the right to lock it in - the old one only needed to be turned just right of centre, if that makes sense. So, even turning it all the way and holding it, theres still potential for a bit of leakage when the basket doesnt have the aforementioned lip.

    So far, its just been a matter of getting the grind right - Im only 1 or 2 steps finer than I was with the pressurized baskets, which surprised me a little. Ive got a brand new group seal (fitted yesterday) and it still has this problem - so Im a little worried about whats going to happen when the seal degenerates over time, because I cant lock the pf in any tighter. Maybe Ill give one of those fancy brass ones a go (mines just got the aluminium one)


  38. #38
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    As I mentioned way back in October, unless we know the type and model of grinder being used, any advice offered is just based on speculation and will therefore be less than optimum. At the risk of repeating myself, whats the make and model of grinder being used? Trying to hazard a guess is not really worth the effort in my book :-?

    Mal.

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1128380756/30#37 date=1169732073
    As I mentioned way back in October, unless we know the type and model of grinder being used, any advice offered is just based on speculation and will therefore be less than optimum. At the risk of repeating myself, whats the make and model of grinder being used? Trying to hazard a guess is not really worth the effort in my book :-?

    Mal.
    Hi Mal,

    Thanks for that; wasnt sure if anyone noticed this old thing getting dredged up again ;) .... The grinder (for what its worth) is an EM0480, but thats not really the thing that concerns me too much - Im pretty sure the problem stems from the ill-fitting basket/pf combo. Id assume that the problem will only get worse over time as the seal degenerates. Im not sure if that was mahaharis problem too, but might as well throw it out there...

    At the moment though, with the right grind, and making sure that the pf & showerscreen are absolutely spotless, theres no leakage...and better results than before. just wondering how long this is going to last....

  40. #40
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by varanid99 link=1128380756/30#38 date=1169763319
    The grinder (for what its worth) is an EM0480
    Ahh ok v99,

    You know mahahari I take it :). With regard to the Krupps baskets, a lot of people have had great success using these with a variety of Sunbeam machines and surmising that the grinder is up to scratch, it should be relatively simple to dial the new baskets in for good quality pours.... I would have thought so anyway :-?. Im not familiar with the particular machine in question as such, just trying to elicit some extra information from mahahari so that we can be more helpful.... In a general sense from my perspective and hopefully in more detail from people such as yourself v99, which you have already done. Its still a bit hitnmiss though without confirmation about the grinder being used.

    All the best mate,
    Mal.

  41. #41
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Hey Mal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1128380756/30#39 date=1169830110

    You know mahahari I take it :)

    not at all :)- but maybe the same problem....as you say, itd be a bit easier to sort out with the grinder info.

    After extensive mucking around though, I can pretty much categorically rule that out as the problem at my end. The pf fits so poorly that even a speck of ground coffee seems to be enough to break the seal between the basket and group seal. But, using the same grind (or even 1 or 2 settings finer), as long as the basket and seal are given a quick wipe just in case, everything works beautifully. Its a bit of a pain when making a couple of coffees in a row, but probably not a bad habit to get into (at least I know itll be spotless when I switch it on in the morning).

    Just to illustrate what Im talking about a little better (I dont have the camera batteries charged), if youre so inclined, take a look at tasadams first post on another thread (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1168768543). If you have a look at the second photo, theres a very small lip all the way around the (genuine pressurised) basket, which comes directly into contact with the group seal (I tested this theory using the old group seal, and some food dye). The Krups doesnt have this lip, hence the potential for leakage.

    I think that, with a better fitting pf, it probably wouldnt be such a problem, as the pf would be jammed in there pretty tightly. But if its a little loose, it can be a problem. Im going to take steps to remedy this (either by getting a replacement pf, or just good old fashioned tinkering), but the Krups basket has definitely been worthwhile in terms of the end result (aside from the odd occasion when Ive forgotten the wipe, and ended up with water & grounds spurting over the bench, of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1128380756/30#39 date=1169830110
    .....it should be relatively simple...
    Right. But relatively is such a relative thing....


    cheers

    J

  42. #42
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    This thread has been a real treasure trove!

    Now this is probably a really really dumb question :D but if i was to replace the existing double basket that came with the 5800 with one that has been mentioned in this thread (i.e. unpressurised/krups style double basket) would I need to change the group handle or is the original one supplied with the machine ok?

    Im just wanting to try and get the best out of the machine with small tweaks now that I am starting to roast and grind my own beans. In the meantime, I keep saving those dollar beanies to buy a nice new shiny machine.

    Thks

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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    I only read this thread as Im bored, but joy, I know understand the basket thing Ive read about in some other threads!!

    Although Id love a Silvia, a 6910 seems more likely and, as my current machine is a Krups, Ill just swao the baskets over - issue solved!!!

  44. #44
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam Cafe Aromatic (EM5800) Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by 794E59595A584E57575E550A3B0 link=1128380756/41#41 date=1273133426
    Now this is probably a really really dumb question :D but if i was to replace the existing double basket that came with the 5800 with one that has been mentioned in this thread (i.e. unpressurised/krups style double basket) would I need to change the group handle or is the original one supplied with the machine ok?
    As has been stated here often, and still bears repeating--There is no such thing as a dumb question!! :)

    You certainly do not want to be changing group handles, and the replacement baskets mentioned should be a good fit. Id be taking my group handle to the shop with me just to ensure that.

    That said, Im not a fan of the Krups baskets, I think the holes are a bit too large, and for the Breville Ikon at least, let too many fine grounds through and into the cup. I prefer to modify the Breville baskets, but have no experience with the EM5800 baskets themselves.

    A single floor basket does make much better coffee, although it usually requires some modification to technique and grind.

    Keep enjoying the coffee trip!

    Greg

  45. #45
    Rbn
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    Just in case anyone else reads this old thread!
    Breville put out a single walled single and double that will work as well.
    And I found a single walled one on Alibaba, that was supposed to be a double but was bigger than the Breville double.

    Certainly an improvement over the dual wall.
    Grinder is an EM 0440.

    I just had my handle "blow off" and break my cup!
    However, fault was mine, grind too fine, tamped too hard, choked the machine but it was dripping a bit, so I thought I would see how it went!
    Ka-boom.
    level3ninja likes this.

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