Results 1 to 25 of 25
Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By A_M
  • 1 Post By reubster
  • 1 Post By A_M
  • 1 Post By Yash
  • 2 Post By Xanthine

Thread: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    I have just tested the second EM6910 I have received, having returned the first today, on Sunbeams advice, for having a lower than expected water temperature at the grouphead.

    Sunbeams user manual states that the EM6910 "is calibrated to the precise temperature of 92 degrees" yet this machine, and the one I returned, produced a thermometer measured temperature of 65 degrees. Programming the machine to increase the thermoblock temperature +4 degrees saw the temperature increase, as youd expect, to 69 degrees.

    Sunbeams advice was to return my first machine, admitting it was faulty. If this is the case the logically my second is to having repeated the results I got from my initial purchase. I was told the water temperature should be 92 degrees as stated in the manual.

    A work colleague bought an EM 6910 at the same time and has exactly the same result.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Is this an error of mine or this just a case of a shop receiving a bad batch of machines of which I have received 2?

  2. #2
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,382

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 78575E4C4A74390 link=1266222481/0#0 date=1266222481
    I have just tested the second EM6910 I have received, having returned the first today, on Sunbeams advice, for having a lower than expected water temperature at the grouphead.

    Sunbeams user manual states that the EM6910 "is calibrated to the precise temperature of 92 degrees" yet this machine, and the one I returned, produced a thermometer measured temperature of 65 degrees. Programming the machine to increase the thermoblock temperature +4 degrees saw the temperature increase, as youd expect, to 69 degrees.

    Sunbeams advice was to return my first machine, admitting it was faulty. If this is the case the logically my second is to having repeated the results I got from my initial purchase. I was told the water temperature should be 92 degrees as stated in the manual.

    A work colleague bought an EM 6910 at the same time and has exactly the same result.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Is this an error of mine or this just a case of a shop receiving a bad batch of machines of which I have received 2?
    The manual is sort of correct but at the same time wrong.

    It depends on how and where you measure the temp..

    Usualy about 87 +/- 2 as it exits the group head.. *But cools even further as it hits the group / coffee and even less by the time it hits the cup.. *This is normal.

    Thus the reason why you need to let it sit and and have the group in to come up to temp . *With no water.. And up to temp say 20 min... Check the temp of the group head - Internally.

    Note - You are using an accurate *calibrated temperature meter ?

    Sorry.... But without real measurments and knowing how they were taken.. It sounds normal to me.

    Do a search as this has been all discussed about 12 months ago.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Thanks AngerManagement.

    My Thermometer is a standard, analogue milk temperature thermometer tested using my hot water system, which I can adjust the temperature by in 1 degree increments and that I know to be accurate. The milk thermometer is approx -1 to -2 degree out. It measures boiling water at 98 degrees.

    The water from the group-head was tested straight through (no group handle) into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

    I hope I am doing something wrong in my measurement and what these machines are doing is usual (despite Sunbeam defining the first as obviously faulty) because this is not something I expected from a machine with the great reputation of the 6910.




  4. #4
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,382

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 644B42505668250 link=1266222481/2#2 date=1266227568
    Thanks AngerManagement.

    My Thermometer is a standard, analogue milk temperature thermometer tested using my hot water system, which I can adjust the temperature by in 1 degree increments and that I know to be accurate. The milk thermometer is approx -1 to -2 degree out. It measures boiling water at 98 degrees.

    The water from the group-head was tested straight through (no group handle) into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

    I hope I am doing something wrong in my measurement and what these machines are doing is usual (despite Sunbeam defining the first as obviously faulty) because this is not something I expected from a machine with the great reputation of the 6910.

    How do you know its accurate ? Most of these things have a 2 to 5 deadband and most temp meters have an accuracy of about 1 or second crack and then the actual thermistor has another 1 or second crack..

    Just because some meters can read 92.05C it only means that it is that +/- the total accuracy; thus it could be say 96 or it could be 88 and both are 100% correct.

    YEp...

    Response times and assumptions.. PEBFAG

    If ya getting 64 - 70 in a SS milk jug.. Then ya more than likely to have a machine that is spot ON.

    Even with the ss jug warmed... Surface area / temp transfer losses and the losses as it falls through the air is enough to loose more than a few C.

    As I said.. Not so simple and no machine that would give 92C measured at teh jug would give a coffee I would want.. Would be BURNT to crap..

    Tis why some here use very special measurement devices and some are not cheep... My not so old old +/- 0.first crack (total accuracy) unit cost in excess of $800 and only has a temp range of 20C to 70C at that accuracy.. +/- 0.2 from -10 to 200. It is about fit for purpose..

    Milk thermometers and many other temp measuring items are nothing more than an INDICATOR.... etc

    Even teh CS data logger and probe has accuracy requirements and thus when people start comparing to within second crack.. They can be fooling them selves as it is also about placement as well as the accuracy...

    Sorry OFF topic.. Too long in the metrology / calibration field ;D
    zeezaw likes this.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Thanks. My blood pressure is slowly returning to normal. :-?


  6. #6
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,382

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 113E3725231D500 link=1266222481/4#4 date=1266230831
    Thanks. My blood pressure is slowly returning to normal. *:-?
    Is that because of my post *;D

    Or

    that you now have a better understanding of the issues at hand ?

    AND

    That the Em910 is not so bad after all *:D

    PS. See here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1241125627/17#17 and read all here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1241125627

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    All of the above.

    Appreciate your help.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    59

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temprature issue.

    After reading your post i thought i would do a test of my own,
    using a Fluke 51 K/J thermometer and using a fast response k type thermocouple probe, no group handle fitted, i got the temp readings of 88.6c to start and it tapered off to 75.8 at the shower screen.
    i then placed a latte glass under the head ( no group handle ) and placed the probe in it. the reading i got in the glass was 68.5c.
    Hope this helps, but will prop just add more confusion. :)

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Thanks for that theredcapsicum.

    Anyone else care to share their temperature readings?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    362

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 230C0517112F620 link=1266222481/2#2 date=1266227568
    into a stainless steel milk jug that had been pre-warmed with one 45 second pour from the EM6910.

    This in itself could bring the group water temp down if you dont give it long enough to recover.

    How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    541

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Remember that a thermoblock is designed to heat to a specific temperature with a specific flowrate in mind.


    If you are measuring by pulling a blank shot [ie no coffee in the PF]
    the water will flow too quickly through the thermoblock and will not be properly heated.
    zeezaw likes this.

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.
    There have been some some sour espressos but I didnt put this down to a potential water temperature issue until a short-black was made for a friend who commented it was only warm and not the temperature her machine makes them. On measuring water tempertaure from the hot water wand it was only just 65 degrees. A double espresso shot was 40 degrees. I then did the thermoblock water measurement and got the same 65 degrees without the programmed +4 temperature boost.



  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    North Rothbury, NSW
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    All temperature values are partially nominal.

    What we need to do is a standardised test across a range of SBs and look at the results, ignoring variances of a couple of degrees.

    If what you are saying is true then the variance will be well past a different thermometer variance. You are talking 20+ degrees or so.

    Come up with a basic test or two that we can all do exactly the same and Im in.

    Ill help you out AngusM

    Chris

  14. #14
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,382

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F58485F4E49584F3D0 link=1266222481/10#10 date=1266289263
    Remember that a thermoblock is designed to heat to a specific temperature with a specific flowrate in mind.


    If you are measuring by pulling a blank shot [ie no coffee in the PF]
    the water will flow too quickly through the thermoblock and will not be properly heated.
    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 4955584F58595E5C4D4E545E48503D0 link=1266222481/7#7 date=1266271312
    using a Fluke 51 K/J thermometer and using a fast response k type thermocouple probe, no group handle fitted, i got the temp readings of 88.6c to start and it tapered off to 75.8 at the shower screen.
    This is as expected..

    It is not a simple process.. It is about the reaction time of the thermoblock, the water flow rate, through a perfect puck - with a pre warmed group etc etc and into a warm cup.

    As I said before.. It sounds about right.


    zeezaw likes this.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northlandia
    Posts
    1,076

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 624D4456506E230 link=1266222481/11#11 date=1266298081
    How does the espresso taste? If the water is a cold as you think it is then the coffee would be sour.
    There have been some some sour espressos but I didnt put this down to a potential water temperature issue until a short-black was made for a friend who commented it was only warm and not the temperature her machine makes them. On measuring water tempertaure from the hot water wand it was only just 65 degrees. A double espresso shot was 40 degrees. I then did the thermoblock water measurement and got the same 65 degrees without the programmed +4 temperature boost.

    40 deg sounds pretty cool - I take it you preheated the cup?

    I have found that unless almost the entire spike of my milk thermo is in the liquid, it is really inaccurate. Learned that one while using it to simmer milk to make yogurt, the milk boiled with a reading of about 70 ::)

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    On Sunbeams insistence my second machine has been sent back to them. They have a new machine, that they have tested to ensure it is working to the exact calibrated temperatures that the EM6910 is designed to operate at, on its way to me. I was told the machine should not be producing 65 degree water and that 87 deg C would have been considered normal in the opinion of the person I am dealing with.

    I asked a friend to test his three year old 6910, using my non-scientific method, and he got 82 degrees. If he had got 65 degrees I would have accepted this to be normal as his machine would have then been to the fourth to have done so.

    I cannot fault Sunbeams customer service in any way. It has been exeptional.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    My third EM 6910 has been received, unpacked and tested as per the method used with the other two. The result is a water temperature of 85 degrees.

    I am more than happy with that. A great birthday present.

    Coffee time!

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    hi all,
    my sunbeam cafe series 6910 is making my coffee taste horribly sour! i have used both the sunbeam descale liquid along with the tablets as well, rinsed it out throughly and also had about a 250 g bag run through it and still it tastes really sour.. what other problem could this be?

  19. #19
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,382

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 352132260C303227323F3A3D32530 link=1266222481/17#17 date=1277860519
    hi all,
    my sunbeam cafe series 6910 is making my coffee taste horribly sour! i have used both the sunbeam descale liquid along with the tablets as well, rinsed it out throughly and also had about a 250 g bag run through it and still it tastes really sour.. what other problem could this be?
    Set to default for head temp and when you did teh cleaning did you remove and clean the shower screens... A backflush / ds-scale will not clean the shower screens...

    Depending on how long you have had it.. They can get very dirty.

    1: What beans ?
    2: From Who ?
    3: Date roasted ON ?
    4: What grinder ?

    PS. Update ya profile with location and equipment details..

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D293A2E04383A2F3A3732353A5B0 link=1266222481/17#17 date=1277860519
    hi all,
    my sunbeam cafe series 6910 is making my coffee taste horribly sour! i have used both the sunbeam descale liquid along with the tablets as well, rinsed it out throughly and also had about a 250 g bag run through it and still it tastes really sour.. what other problem could this be?
    Hows the temperature of the water running through the coffee? As stated above the coffee will be sour, so there may be something wrong with settings or the machine.
    But, again as above, it could be the coffee, try sourcing some freshly and locally roasted coffee.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    137

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.

    Gday,

    Recently Ive also been a bit concerned about the water temperature on my 1 month old Sunbeam 6910. The only reason I thought this was due to the sour shots I have been getting (according to my untrained palate). I only really drink milk coffees but decided to start sampling my shot in effort to improve them. *Anyway after some testing (see below) I am much more confident and happy about the machine.

    Test Setup
    - 2 standard styrafoam cups, one inside the other
    - Tops of the cups trimmed such that they fit under the group head
    - Milk thermometer (best device I have) poked into side of cups
    - Two overflow holes poked on side of cups above point where thermometer is sitting.
    - Some kind of support to hold cups in place.





    Test 1 - Measure the top temperature leaving shower head
    - Brew temperature set to factory 92 degrees.
    - Allowed machine plenty of time to warm up (eg 15 mins)
    - Hit the Manual button
    - Recorded top temperature: *85 degrees ( few! :) )
    - After the top temp was reached it steadily dropped off so I recorded the descent...
    * * * * * * * *15 secs after top temp: *83 degrees
    * * * * * * * *30 secs after top temp: *78 degrees
    * * * * * * * *45 secs after top temp: *75 degrees

    Test 2 - Measure the recovery time
    Measure the time it takes to return to the top temp after a 1 minute flush (single press of the Manual button).
    Recordings below:

    - After 1 minute: * 82 degrees
    - After 2 minutes: *83 degrees
    - After 3 minutes: *84 degrees
    - After 4 minutes: *84.5 degrees

    Thats all I have time for...but it looks like full recovery will take approx 5 minutes.
    Next test would be to test the actual recovery time after pulling a standard 30 sec shot....maybe tomorrow :)

    So overall Im satisfied that my machine is not faulty. Probably just user error creating the sour shots. Will try hiking the brew temp by 4 degrees tomorrow.
    zeezaw likes this.

  22. #22
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Wollstonecraft NSW
    Posts
    11
    Apologies for resurrecting a 7 year old thread but this is the thread with the most info on EM6910/EM7000 temperature issues that I can find and I thought I would add to it rather than kick off a new discussion.

    I have recently acquired a used Sunbeam EM7000 and I suspect it too is not controlling the temperature correctly. Using the styrofoam cup method as demonstrated by Yash above I measured the water temperature at 75.5 C on a digital meat thermometer (another thermometer reads within 1 C of this). Changing the programmable temperature to +2 C yields water at 78 C and I suppose that using the +4 C setting will take it to 80 C.

    I am consistently getting a tan coloured crema and somewhat sour shots, which is what led me to suspect low temperature (after some researching). It could be down to something else though. I am only an espresso beginner, after all.

    Given that it's out of warranty, is it worth having the machine temperature looked at by a service centre? I also happen to have an EM6910 that I bought for $20 just to have an extra portafilter. It doesn't work but it does heat up. Does anyone know how difficult it would be to open it up to pull out the thermostat and put it into the EM7000 for testing?

    Many thanks.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    S.A. - South Coast
    Posts
    123
    Hi zeezaw
    I would suggest that if you are confident enough to work on your machines safely you could try resurrecting the 6910 and compare the brew from this with your 7000. At least, this way you would have some idea if it is your beans causing the problem and would also have a spare machine to use if you did have the 7000 repaired.
    The 6910 uses a thermistor attached to the outside of the thermoblock to sense its temperature. Its resistance changes with temperature and this is communicated back to the control board. I would assume that the 7000 uses a similar setup but have never worked on one. The thermistor is a fairly reliable component so I doubt that is likely to be causing your problems unless it has come loose from the thermoblock or the thermal grease under it has dried out. Either way, it would be a time consuming job to swap them over.
    If the 6910 only cost you $20 you don't have much to loose if you stuff it up as long as you are confident you can work safely on a mains powered appliance.
    Most common problems with the 6910 seem to be with either a scaled up steam thermoblock or a blockage between the brew thermoblock and the '3 way' solenoid valve.
    ( Failing that, you could always strip the works out of the 6910 and make it into a letterbox - I have one and it really freaks out every who sees it )

    Trev
    level3ninja and zeezaw like this.

  24. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Wollstonecraft NSW
    Posts
    11
    Thanks, Trev. I might give the 6910 a go, though given the amount of gunk I found in the 7000's shower screen I shudder to think what I'll find in the much older 6910—apparently it's been in storage for a while. When I did try to run it the lights came on and it made all the right noises but no water came through. Perhaps it just needs priming.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    S.A. - South Coast
    Posts
    123
    Sometimes it takes a bit of 'brute force' to get it primed. I have found that a large syringe (from the chemist) and an adaptor into the water intake at the back of the water tank works well. Try pulling out the water tank and make a fitting to go into the opening - I once cobbled one up using a piece of black drip irrigation poly pipe (1/2" I think) coupled to the syringe with various odd bits of plastic tubing pushed together. Force the water in with the pump running. It seems that the valves in the pumps stick when the machine has been stored for any length of time. The pump will quieten down considerably when it is primed and pumping.
    Once you have water pumping try both a descale with vinegar and backflushing with either the Sunbeam tablets or Cafetto powder (two separate operations).
    If you can't get steam then the steam thermoblock may need cleaning - this can be a bit tricky but there are plenty of ideas in this section of the forum or just ask and I sure you will get advice.
    Please let us know how you get on.

Similar Threads

  1. Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?
    By jaysonleow in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 28th March 2011, 09:08 PM
  2. Yet another Sunbeam em6910 issue
    By tony8028 in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 24th March 2011, 03:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •