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Thread: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

  1. #5351
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. I did remove the shower screen quite a few times to clean it, but that is as far as my confidence in my expertise with tools go I will pass on this link to whom ever will be interested in buying it

  2. #5352
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    Leaking steam probes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brollond View Post
    I believe the OP was referring to the probe on the steam boiler (see image below), it doesn't look serviceable however I have never tried to disassemble one to see how it seals inside.
    Thanks guys, yes I was referring to the steam probe ceramic collar. It's a loose fit on the metal shaft and allows steam to vent up the inside of the collar and out the top. Replacing the o-ring has no effect as the pressure is venting up the centre of the probe.

    I "solved" the problem by removing the probes and filling the joint between the bottom of the ceramic collar and the shaft with a little epoxy. Probably wouldn't get past the food safety police though.

  3. #5353
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    Aside the food compatibility, the only (other) problem is that the epoxy has to be temperature resistant - if I recall correctly, normal epoxy you get around the place tends to get a little soft with temperature. So with steam and heat exposure, that fix may only be temporary and you may end up having to re-open it later.

    I don't know how much the probes are, but they can't be *that* expensive.

    Edit: It's "Food compatibility" not "Foot compatibility" -- damned autocorrect.
    Last edited by inorog; 17th August 2017 at 05:41 PM.

  4. #5354
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    Quote Originally Posted by inorog View Post
    Aside the foot compatibility, the only (other) problem is that the epoxy has to be temperature resistant - if I recall correctly, normal epoxy you get around the place tends to get a little soft with temperature. So with steam and heat exposure, that fix may only be temporary and you may end up having to re-open it later.

    I don't know how much the probes are, but they can't be *that* expensive.
    Thanks inorog,

    They seem to be around the 50-60 AUD range, so I have added a set to my "will do" list in the event that I can resolve the other issues without much more expense.

    To date I have:

    a) Replaced all the o-rings (about 1435 of them I think including the one on the side of the steam boiler, the pressure gauge and at the bottom of the solenoid;
    b) Done a de-scale (Steam boiler pretty grotty, brew boiler NTB);
    c) Replaced group collar and seal;
    d) Replaced brew boiler thermal fuse (was OC)
    e) Dismantled and cleaned solenoid and all ports etc, gasket seems OK

    I can now power up and pull a shot with 9 bar during extraction.

    Main issue now is with temperature. It heats up quickly but once it reaches the 93 deg mark continues to heat. I can sometimes catch it by drawing off a cup or two of hot water which causes the temp to drop below 93, then as it heats back up again to set point it locks in (usually). I can then pull a shot, but it will often start heating again with the "93" flashing. If I turn it off and back on, the real temperature is displayed and is usually in the high 90's.

    Steam is good, if a little watery when the tap is first opened.

    There appears to be something happening with air lock / solenoid however. When I turn it off and it starts to cool I can hear the solenoid fluttering and observe air moving in the pipes about every four seconds between steam boiler / brew boiler / solenoid and hot water outlet (which periodically leaks a few drops in sync).

    Is it possible the solenoid is at faulty and causing the temperature issue? If likely I will add it to my "will do" list, but if the repairs are going to go much beyond that I will have to seriously reconsider my commitment to the "project" methinks.

    Thanks for any advice.

  5. #5355
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    See my post: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    It was basically a corroded NTC thermistor - sensor probe had a rusted hole in it, and water was playing havoc with it. You may need to unscrew them from the boiler(s)

    I had it replaced under warranty - but yeah ...

  6. #5356
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    Thanks inorog,

    I pulled out the NTC and all looked OK visually, so thought I would pop it back for the moment and look elsewhere....

    So I gave it some thought (I know, desperate measure) and figured that there would likely be only two reasons the brew heater was kicking in. a) the temperature was lower than set point or b) the main board thought that cold water was flowing into the boiler and so it would switch on the element to jump start the heating process.

    I had already discounted a) so thought I would dig around and find the flow meter that measures the flow to the brew boiler. Found it behind the main PCB, and once discovered (lo and behold) a mass of corrosion around the connector. A quick clean up and a spray with some WD and we are back in business. I figure the corrosion was sending "fake news" to the PCB, and it in turn responded by kicking in the element.

    The BDB now comes up to heat, and sticks there like a cane toad on bitumen. Rock solid.

    I still have a couple of smallish issues but looking good!

    Anyone know how to get the steam handle off? I want to give the ball valve a bit of a work over.

    Thanks all.
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  7. #5357
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    You might want to find out why the corrosion happened on the PCB... chances are a). condensation, b). slow leak/seepage. Might need to keep an eye on that one.

    As to the ball valve - I think that the round shroud on the steam handle comes off if you pull hard enough - if I recall correctly - mine's a little loose and wobbly. The handle probably is held by a screw of some description.

    Well done with the troubleshooting! Oh - and "fake news" - ba-ahahahaha!

  8. #5358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty49 View Post
    Anyone know how to get the steam handle off? I want to give the ball valve a bit of a work over.

    Thanks all.
    Removable cap clips on outside of steam wand and pops off when pulled firmly. There's a single screw in centre needs to be removed to get the ball valve out.

    I've been able to successfully repair/service two leaking steam wands over the weekend, the ball valve body can be unscrewed using an allen key. You can then completely disassemble the valve body to clean the ball and plastic sealing washers. I give them a good clean and descale and found that when reassembled the leak is gone, so definitely worth a try.

    Good luck!

  9. #5359
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    Thanks folks,

    I managed to get the ball valve apart and did a clean up. Seems to be much improved but still has an occasional drip but I can live with that.

    Cheers
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  10. #5360
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    Hi Crusty,

    Where did you get the replacement o-rings from, I picked up a non-working BES900 from gumtree to see if it is fixable. One of the pipes into the brew boiler is missing the o-ring altogether and there is a fair amount of corrosion internally, though most of the electrical components appear unharmed. I also need a new NTC thermistor for the brew boiler, anyone know where these can be sourced? The temperature display either shows err1 or jumps all over the place. When I pulled the thermistor out it was covered in rust and the reading is around 100 ohms.

  11. #5361
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    Hi mate, you should be able to pick them up at a bearing supply place e.g. Bearing Services. Take a sample in and they should be able to match it. You need a silicon (first preference) or vitron type. The standard black rubber ones won't last long.

    Not sure where you would get the NTC. Try googling BES900/03.11B which should be the part number.

    Cheers

  12. #5362
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    I think I have found the answer to this problem mentioned above....

    "There appears to be something happening with air lock / solenoid however. When I turn it off and it starts to cool I can hear the solenoid fluttering and observe air moving in the pipes about every four seconds between steam boiler / brew boiler / solenoid and hot water outlet (which periodically leaks a few drops in sync)"

    After checking everything else, I decided to replace the pump on the off chance that it was allowing water back down through the pump when it was de-energised. Sure enough, all good. No more gurgling and fluttering.

    I think I'm getting pretty close to a 100% machine now. Happy camper.
    inorog and level3ninja like this.

  13. #5363
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    However there is one small issue I can't seem to resolve.

    The 1 cup and 2 cup presets don't work (brew just keeps on coming). I can't set these either according to the instructions in the book.

    Neither do I get the two beeps that should tell me the settings have been saved.

    I'm not too worried because I will normally use manual mode. Any ideas? Has any one else had this problem?

    Cheers.

  14. #5364
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    Hi Guys,

    does anyone happen to have a spare good condition/new insert collar or know where I can still buy one at a reasonable price?


    Also, my steam wand leaks water when the machine is on and not in use. Has anyone got a fix for this?

    Cheers

  15. #5365
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    I own a BES900XL that has been trouble free for years. Recently, the machine stopped working. I've troubleshot a bit, but hoping to capture some expertise before I start replacing any parts.

    Symptoms:
    - No water emerges from the grouphead and no pressure displays on the gauge.
    - Pump appears to kick on and cycle from the pre-infusion to the extraction, as expected. No change in pump sound.
    - No water is leaking internally (nor out of the grouphead) when it's up to temp nor when the pump is on extraction.
    - Steam comes from the steam wand normally.
    - Water does come out of hot water dispenser with no issues.
    - The machine had occasionally displayed an ERR1 over the last few months. It is not displaying now and hasn't recently.

    Troubleshooting:
    - With the machine disassembled, I can hear water sound like it's returning back to the tank. (I'm not sure if it used to do this or not.)
    - I've replaced all of the smaller o-rings. I haven't replaced the larger blue o-rings on the steam probes on the steam boiler, as I couldn't find dimensions for them. These o-rings are leaking a little bit of steam as the steam boiler comes up to temp.
    - I've removed and cleaned up the 3-way solenoid. It was very clean. It has the white ceramic washers, but does not have the metal inserts. Solenoid looked in good shape.
    - There is a bit of rust around the front of the steam boiler from where leakage occurred around the steam probes. Electrical connections all appear ok, but I cleaned up some of the rust just to be safe.
    - I inspected the water lines that go to the main boiler, and they all appear to be clear.

    Any thoughts on what may be the cause? Is there anything I can investigate further? I'd prefer to not have to send to Breville, but that may be my next step, as they will also descale and update the firmware.

  16. #5366
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    You say the solenoid looked in good shape, do you know if it's operating correctly?
    Could the OPV be stuck?
    Is it filling the drip tray at all?

  17. #5367
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    I would also vote for a stuck OPV... Essentially that's their role - if the pressure is too high, they open and dump the excess water back into the tank. This is possible because the water has not been heated, it's "fresh out of the pump". A stuck/not working solenoid valve would result in filling the water tray - this water is not recyclable, as it is, more often than not, full of dregs - as a result of the pressure release at the end of a pull

    So... taking it logically - if you have water coming back into your tank - that means the pump is working well enough. That only leaves 2 things: a blockage on the way to the group head, or, a stuck OPV.

    Recently my OPV started playing up - opening a lot earlier than normal. I've adjusted it tighter, but it's still unreliable. My take on it is that I should probably replace it with the bronze one I have had sitting around for the past few years. Oh well - another 5 minute job

  18. #5368
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    How did the holes in the teflon discs for the solenoid look? Most of the time the versions without the metal inserts started to close up and restrict/stop water flow.

    I've yet to see a stuck closed OPV but that's not saying this can't be the case, just that the teflon disc issue is far more prevalent.

    Edit: photo of failed disc

    20161015_114650.jpg
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  19. #5369
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    Don't know yet - truth be told - I've had a rebuild of the machine 2 years later (that was September 2014), just before the warranty expired, and they replaced the group head with a BES920 version, and replaced the solenoid membrane as well. I might have to open it too, why not? In for a penny, in for a solenoid... :P

  20. #5370
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    Thanks all for the replies.

    - No water is going to the water drip tray.
    - The teflon discs were clean. No buildup at all on the discs or on the opposing metal surfaces.
    - Regarding whether the solenoid valve is working or not. I'm not sure. Is their a way to test it? Since I'm not getting water to the group head, there is nothing to discharge to the water drip tray.
    - Regarding the pump and OPV, I hadn't looked at those yet. The pump sounds normal during operation. Does the hot water dispenser work off the same pump and OPV? I followed the tubing for the hot water dispenser and it appears to connect to the block underneath the solenoid valve? Is it fed by the steam boiler or the brew boiler? (The hot water dispenser is working normally with normal pressure.)
    -Is it common for the OPV to just fail with no warning? I had seen reports of pressure fluctuation and people having to adjust them, but don't recall seeing ones that just failed. I'll do more research though, as I'm leaning toward this being the issue.
    - I checked the tubing that leads up to the brew boiler, and it was all clear. Any other pathways that I should look at?

    Thanks again.

  21. #5371
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    Hi Everyone,

    I hope someone might be able to help me locate the issue with my BES900. It is working OK however if I leave it on and don't use it for a while, say over 15 minutes, and I press the 1 or 2 cup extraction button the pump does not start immediately and it is rather quite and makes gurgling sounds before the extraction process starts about 5 second later. If I prime the group head first or dispense water via the hot water outlet I do not get this issue.

    It never used to be like this and has only started doing this in the last couple of months.

    Ideas and thoughts appreciated.

    TIA

    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregeeh View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I hope someone might be able to help me locate the issue with my BES900. It is working OK however if I leave it on and don't use it for a while, say over 15 minutes, and I press the 1 or 2 cup extraction button the pump does not start immediately and it is rather quite and makes gurgling sounds before the extraction process starts about 5 second later. If I prime the group head first or dispense water via the hot water outlet I do not get this issue.

    It never used to be like this and has only started doing this in the last couple of months.

    Ideas and thoughts appreciated.

    TIA

    Greg
    No ideas anyone?

  23. #5373
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    Intuitively seems like a priming issue. Is there a small leak somewhere letting air back in somewhere?

    could be a seal that will let a small bit or air in but is good enough to seal against water? If it were a split in a hose somewhere you would probably get a leak you would notice.

    Since it relieved buy purging through the group or hot water arm, then it must be a common line between the two.

  24. #5374
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    Could also be your machine is going into power save/standby mode early, once in this mode you should be waking it up only by pressing a certain few buttons. Check you instructions for power save or standby mode issues.

    It seems your machine does have a sleep mode ,..read instructions how to wake up properly?

    Do all your lights dim down also?

  25. #5375
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Intuitively seems like a priming issue. Is there a small leak somewhere letting air back in somewhere?

    could be a seal that will let a small bit or air in but is good enough to seal against water? If it were a split in a hose somewhere you would probably get a leak you would notice.

    Since it relieved buy purging through the group or hot water arm, then it must be a common line between the two.
    The only leak I'm aware of is the steam wand leaks, you can hear is hissing slightly all the time. Been going to replace that valve but have never got around to it. Could that be the cause of the issue?

    Thanks for your input.

    Greg

  26. #5376
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    The coffee pump is no longer able to start the preinfusion by itself. Common issue on the Breville dual boiler range after a few years.

    You will need to replace the coffee pump to fix the issue. Alternatively (as you have already been doing), cycling the pump by pressing a shot button quickly or opening and closing the hot water tap will allow the preinfusion to operate.

  27. #5377
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregeeh View Post
    The only leak I'm aware of is the steam wand leaks, you can hear is hissing slightly all the time. Been going to replace that valve but have never got around to it. Could that be the cause of the issue?

    Thanks for your input.

    Greg
    Could be. Potentially the steam wand is leaking out the super heated water (as steam) which is draining the line to the pump and then when you go to extract a shot/preinfuse the pump is dry and queue the gurgling.

    Having said that, sounds like others here know the problem from history.

  28. #5378
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    Hi Greg,

    I had a similar problem which turned out to be a leaky espresso pump (the bigger one behind the PCB) which was letting water back down through the pump and into the tank.

    Not sure if this will work (others may know); but try getting it all up to temp as usual, then empty the tank down the sink. Put the empty tank back in and leave it a few minutes to see if it collects some water. If yes, my suspicion would be on the pump.

    The steam system is completely separate from the espresso system, and I doubt would have any bearing on your problem.

    But then, I've been wrong before.
    Cheers,

    Bruce

  29. #5379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty49 View Post
    Hi Greg,

    I had a similar problem which turned out to be a leaky espresso pump (the bigger one behind the PCB) which was letting water back down through the pump and into the tank.

    Not sure if this will work (others may know); but try getting it all up to temp as usual, then empty the tank down the sink. Put the empty tank back in and leave it a few minutes to see if it collects some water. If yes, my suspicion would be on the pump.

    The steam system is completely separate from the espresso system, and I doubt would have any bearing on your problem.

    But then, I've been wrong before.
    Cheers,

    Bruce
    Thanks Bruce, going my what others have said as well as yourself it appears the coffee pump is the problem. Whether it is leaking as you explained or just unable to do the preinfusion it needs replacing. I will order one today.

    Thanks,

    Greg

  30. #5380
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    Water is spurting out from my group head as I pull a shot. I called Breville, and they said a repair would be $349. It is a B model, and hasn't been descaled (as far as I know). Anyone know if they are still replacing these with 920's? That would make my day!

  31. #5381
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    I had this problem on a 900B, a new group head seal was all that was needed

  32. #5382
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    Hi looking for some help with my BES920. It is almost 3 years old, making about 3 to 4 coffees a day. I use fresh beans I buy from a friend who gets them roasted. Always made great coffee now suddenly not reaching pressure with same brand of beans. I have tried finer grind (pretty much already on the finest setting) and a higher dose. Problem worse with 2cup which is odd because in the past 2 cup usually making better coffee than 1 cup. I have put the cleaning disc in and it reaches 10 as I saw suggested. No pressure at all with just the basket and no cleaning disc. The manual says it should reach 5 with that. Any ideas? Please note I love coffee but don’t understand the mechanical side of the machine or a lot of the technical jargon used in this site so be gentle��

  33. #5383
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    Had it been a problem since you started using the latest batch of beans or were they ok at first? Sounds like an old batch of beans, do you know when they were roasted? Try some fresher beans and see what they do.

  34. #5384
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    BES900/B Remove Shower head screw

    Just wanted to check which way to turn the hex screw to remove the shower head.

    When the machine is upright it should turn from steam wand side to the tamper, or right to left,
    we can't get it to unscrew.

    If you empty the water is the any problem turning the machine upside down to get a better view when removing the screw.

    This video shows I was turning the right way
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWn_hQtmEbg
    Last edited by RobJules; 3 Days Ago at 11:45 AM.

  35. #5385
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    Screw undoes counter-clockwise when looked at from the hex head end. If it has never been removed before it could be seized from corrosion. Try just working it backwards and forwards gently to see if it loosens up.

    You should be able to lay it on it's back after removing the water tank.

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