Thanks guys for pointing out the other thread, much appreciated.
Mine shows 12 bar. After reading phils post at:Originally Posted by 6577796160690E0 link=1312978609/46#46 date=1313494871
I can only asume that the OPV is limiting preasure to 9 bar but the gauge is out by 2 bar.
Thanks guys for pointing out the other thread, much appreciated.
You should let taste be your guide to possible problems. If your espresso is thin & lacks mouthfeel, then you MAY have a pressure issue. In the 10 years Ive been involved with coffee as a professional, Ive seen pressure, either high or low, as an issue on only a few occasions. From an equipment perspective, its the least sensitive parameter, with temperature being the most sensitive. If you watched the scace/pressure clip www.youtube.com/BrevilleAustralia then youll see how we calibrate the OPV on the production line. This is done for 100% of production. We pay extra for 100% QC to ensure its with +/-0.5bar. Having said that, the OPV is not perfect, the gauge is not perfect, so pulling tight shots, like ristrettos, whicjh have flow rates much slower than the flow rate of a scace, can yield higher indicated pressures during extraction. Try loosening up the grind to increase flow rate & taste the sweetness that comes back!
Yes to that! My thoughts about gauges: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1292410251Originally Posted by 242A2227202E213D39490 link=1312978609/52#52 date=1313613721
sans_souciPhil what was the tiny adjustment that needed to be made to sans_soucis machine that was showing the same 12bar symptom?Originally Posted by 3C2E213C103C203A2C264F0 link=1312803866/25#25 date=1312963287
The OPV was adjusted to reduce the extraction pressure.Originally Posted by 5744514345360 link=1312978609/54#54 date=1313629141
So some (one at least) are slipping through the 100% QC?Originally Posted by 525C54515658574B4F3F0 link=1312978609/55#55 date=1313643299
a) No one is perfect, and,Originally Posted by 05134F004F0B4F1108020A0413080F06610 link=1312978609/56#56 date=1313650042
b) Do you have any idea how many things can happen AFTER its tested? I have a couple of customers who are in full time employment taking dents out of brand new, luxury cars. ;)
I agree just pointing out the bold claim made on the other thread
"we pay extra for 100% QC"
The most remarkable thing is that within a day of noting the problem one of team fixed it, for those who where concerned about brevilles commitment to aftercare should take note!
Den how often do get one the design team from an Italian manufacture fixing the OPV?
Doc, Id just like to point out that this is not a claim, its a fact! We are paying an additional cost to have 100% QC on both pressure & temperature using a Scace on the production line. Weve raised this one instance with the factory & we have an individual serial number on each machine so the factory management can track down which operator was signing off on this aspect of production. Things happen, its called mass production.Originally Posted by 30267A357A3E7A243D373F31263D3A33540 link=1312978609/58#58 date=1313657639
Are you familiar with Guido Bernardinelli? Hes the MD of La Marzocco and is the Fabio equivalent in the coffee industry.Originally Posted by 5E48145B1450144A5359515F4853545D3A0 link=1312978609/58#58 date=1313657639
Though, due to his lycra enhanced physique, and starring roles on youtube, I think Phil may be a serious contender able to topple Guido off the throne.
I got my Breville BES900 yesterday. Im absolutely loving it. This is a truly remarkable espresso machine.
Despite the fact that its highly customizable it manages to be very intuitive and easy to use for the beginner. I think this will be a major selling point for the BES900.
Ive played with a fair share of espresso machines and the BES900 so far has taken the least amount of time to get used to. Producing silky smooth milk is too easy. For me as a latte drinker thats a fantastic feature.
Massive thanks to Phil & the Breville team for creating an amazing product.
Me = happy customer.
Picked up my machine today did the before first use clean thing.
When I pulled the first shot on single cup, the pressure gauge went to 12+ did not exactly see how high over, may have even been nearly 13, then I heard a little pop like a pressure valve releasing then the gauge went back to zero and no coffee came out.
I thought oh no I got a dud so I pressed the button again and this time gauge stopped at 12 and I got the shot out not a very good one, I have to play with the grind a bit as its different to my old Breville Cafe Roma, I am using a mini Mazzer purchased a few weeks ago in preparation for the arrival of the BES900
Any thoughts on what is wrong with my new toy? The one on the shop floor was spot on nine.
Your shot is too tight. Use the cap on the top of the tamper as a guide to dose after tamping. Post tamp the level of the packed coffee should sit ~7mm below the rim of the coffee basket. With 15kg+ of tamp pressure, hold dose constant, then just adjust grind coarseness & fineness until you get the right rate of extraction. Really tight pours will lead to the pressure gauge in the 10+ area. If you are weighing your shots, then this is ~10-12g for a single & ~18-20g for a double.Originally Posted by 5A69603762766B60680F0 link=1312978609/62#62 date=1313662545
Again, use taste as the principal guide to your dose & extraction parameters.
Good to see that we are getting a fast growing happy family here now.
As with all machines, the coffee beans, the grind and dose are most important. It is easy to make good coffee but easier to make terrible coffee.
Well I finally got mine today, managed to unpack it and put it on the bench before heading back to work.
First thoughts, it seems smaller than expected but fits nicely in the corner.
Tried to remove the annoying plastic bottom in the portafilter and couldnt is there a trick to it or do I pry it out?*
With my vst basket in the portafilter locks nicely at the lock position, with my synesso ridgless it goes past the lock position to get a really firm seal, have not tried the normal basket.
Ill put some size comparisons up later on and put in a decent day of testing on the weekend and see if I can do a Silvia to BDB shot comparison.
Looking forward to it!
Check out this pic. Unscrew the spouts, then push the 2 sides together while pressing down to pop out the floor.Originally Posted by 7976716C707B1E0 link=1312978609/65#65 date=1313731870
You really dont need to go past 90deg. The group head seal is not a hard rubber like that used on a Silvia or a commercial machine, it is much softer & seals very effectively with very little effort. As I always say to baristas, only use as much force on the group handle required to get an effective seal, no more......I dont want to be paying for new group head seals every 2 weeks!Originally Posted by 7976716C707B1E0 link=1312978609/65#65 date=1313731870
Thanks Phil, I did feel that it had a nice seal at 90deg with the synesso so I wont be pushing it further than that, I guess I am just used to the silvia, bad habits.Originally Posted by 202E2623242A25393D4D0 link=1312978609/66#66 date=1313733094
Ill have time to play with it when I get home :D
What was the floor designed for ? I assume you would not go to the effort and expenses of both designing and manufacturing a component unless you thought it had a benefit?Originally Posted by 76787075727C736F6B1B0 link=1312978609/66#66 date=1313733094
I see you mean 100% QC testing not 100% qualityOriginally Posted by 2E20282D2A242B3733430 link=1312978609/59#59 date=1313658436
but nice to hear that you can trace this back
Ouch!* Interesting bedside manner you have there Doc.* Are you sure you want one of these machines?Originally Posted by 3D2B773877337729303A323C2B30373E590 link=1312978609/69#69 date=1313736116
That was meant as clarification not an attack, It just interesting on how a large firm are producing a high quality product.Originally Posted by 4A6B6060677D0E0 link=1312978609/70#70 date=1313736495
I cant wait for it, the sooner you say mine is ready the better and I can start chatting about it rather than talking in hyperbolae ;)
Probably so that there is a less noticeable temp drop in the espresso of users who dont allow their group handles to warm up to temp.Originally Posted by 63752966296D29776E646C62756E6960070 link=1312978609/68#68 date=1313735666
Check your email. ;)Originally Posted by 5D4B175817531749505A525C4B50575E390 link=1312978609/71#71 date=1313737789
So Ive had my BES900 for a few days now. I think I am improving my ability to pull a good shot but have some questions the good folks here may be able to help with.
I have weighed my dose and am putting around 11g of coffee into the single basket. I have a Macap 4D and it appears that adjusting the grind coarseness does not affect the dose weight, so as long as I have the grind time set correctly, Ill get the correct amount ground each time? Does that sound correct?
Ive tried to follow the tamping advice Ive read here and Ive found that with the 11g in the single basket, when I tamp the tamper "bottoms out" on the tapered wall of the basket, even with moderate tamping force. The coffee is nice and evenly pressed etc, but the extent to which the coffee can be compressed is limited by the basket walls.* With the dual basket, the walls are more vertical and so its totally up the the person how much to compress the coffee. Should I try adding a bit more coffee? Actually I tried this but then the 5c test failed so to speak.
I have found that adjusting the grind even a small amount on the microstepped Macap affects the pressure when the shot is pulled. Originally it was around 12 and the coffee seemed to ooze out nicely. Then I made the grind a little coarser and the pressure was 9 but the coffee came out what seemed a little faster and blonded earlier and didnt taste as good. So seems like I should aim for the gauge showing 11-12?
I must say that the coffee I have made so far in general tastes almost the same as what I would get in a cafe (when I get it right). When get it wrong, Im having trouble telling the difference between sour/bitter to determine if Ive under/over extracted. Should I just go by shot time and/or pressure? I assume it always puts out 30ml for a single shot and its the time that varies according to the grind? So I should just be aiming for the magical 25 seconds?
With the grinder - I havent opened the BCG800 that came with the machine yet. Should I try it or just stick with the Macap 4D which I had before the BES900 arrived?
Sorry for so many questions. Im trying hard to put into practice all the theory Ive read but its really hard for me to match subjective statements about colour/blonding etc to what I am observing so I know what to correct. As I said, Im really happy with the BES900, Im just trying to get the most out of it.
In my mid twenties and I spend Friday night at home playing with my new espresso machine whilst my other half is in bed early.... Im getting old* ;D
Wally - You would be mad not to keep using the Macap M4D as your main grinder, considering these retail for around $1.2K? Its considered one of the best grinders in its class and will last you many many years. You should put your smart grinder aside for brewed coffee or it will make a really nice gift for a birthday or Xmas.
So back to what Ive done tonight, Ive only had a brief play
Something that I only noticed when I returned home that the front facsica had some light scratches, about a thumb prints worth of small light ones near the guage that is only viewable upclose and only when there is reflection, annoying but obviously not affecting shot quality* :) are they meant to scratch easy?
It took me 4 shots to get a shot that tasted of equal quality to that of my silvia, the crema was quite a bit lighter than my silvia but it still had some slight mottiling and the taste was good, it was thinning out towards the end of the shot and this was a 7sec / 30sec - 60ml double using my synesso at 20g. It was reading 11.5bar on the guage and I had to grind quite a bit finer to get this shot.
The first shot was bang on 9bar but was a 7sec / 20sec shot using the same dose and was definitely under extracted.
Ill have to try a shot by shot comparison when I have time to note down the grind settings. Im keen to play more on the weekend as I try to see if I can nail down a quality shot that precedes the silvia as it should. Maybe a good extraction that reads 9bar is achievable but I know this is only really a guide as others have said about the gauge reading above 9.
I pulled a shot after the good one for a taste with milk, The milk texture was fairly good, only really small bubbles, better than my silvia but it will need refining as I now can have the pitcher upright instead of on an angle to get decent microfoam.
Performed my usual water backflush that I would with the silvia without a problem, the group cleans up nicely with little effort.
So Overall Im fairly happy, with more time I think it will be a lot better.
Here are some pics of it next to the silvia, the scratch and its new home in the corner next to the sink, my other half has called it my new pacifier.
Its nice seeing these beasts "in the wild" at peoples homes!!
My brother in law just picked one up, cant wait to have a play with it and sample the coffee.
Wally, I get the best results with the single basket when I up-dose it with ~13g of coffee. Dont worry about it touching the dispersion screen. I also get better results with the single when I have the pre-infusion pressure duration set to ~10secs instead of the default 7secs for the single. Let taste be your guide to dose amount, flow rate and length of extraction. Personally I like to set dose for a particular coffee based on origin, degree of roast & its age, then holding dose & tamp pressure constant, adjust grind size to optimise flavour. You should have a level tamp with pressure at least 15kg. Try not to get hung up on the outdated principles of 25ml in 25secs etc. Even the WBC have relaxed these words to allow taste to be the dominant factor.Originally Posted by 5C545B575A5A415D350 link=1312978609/74#74 date=1313757728
Having said all this, I get the best results with either one side of a double basket or a double ristretto. I havent used a single basket for 10 years....until I started to work for Breville, commercially, theyre just not used.
ROs, sounds to me like the temp was a little low. You might need to purge a bit longer before extracting. Press & hold the 2 cup button to purge with the shot clock active on the LCD, then note the purge time, extract & taste. Adjust purge time or programmed temp until you reach the flavour potential you expect.Originally Posted by 202F28352922470 link=1312978609/75#75 date=1313765810
Scratch.......Ive opened up a lot of these from the factory in the last 2 weeks & I havent seen any probs as pictured on either the AU stock or the US production. Can I ask where you bought it?
Thanks for the great advice about dosing etc. With regards to the above comment - dumb question of the week: when you say one side of a double basket, do you mean putting the cup under one spout and just letting the flow from the other side go straight into the drip tray? (assuming I only want the one cup).Originally Posted by 46484045424C435F5B2B0 link=1312978609/77#77 date=1313788469
Wally, exactly.Originally Posted by 39313E323F3F2438500 link=1312978609/79#79 date=1313790297
I just tried the second suggestion - I used a double basket with 18g of coffee and hit the single cup button. I think thats what I was supposed to do. Anyway, the coffee definitely had a sour taste to it so I guess it was underextracted, which sort of makes sense given he normal shot time for a double is much longer? As I type this, its been 30 minutes since I made the shot and I still have a sour aftertaste.Originally Posted by 68666E6B6C626D7175050 link=1312978609/77#77 date=1313788469
Yesterday I did actually try the first idea - I put two cups either side of a double basket. It tasted ok but was a bit weak.
Next Ill try the suggestion to increase the pre-infusion time for a single shot and increasing the dose to 13g.
Thanks again for all the help.
I only got the Macap 2nd hand and the BCG800 seemed to be getting a lot of positive press on this site so thought I would check. The Breville says it automatically adjusts the dose when you change the grind which the Macap doesnt do(?) but perhaps this isnt that important? I dont really need a 2nd grinder so may well just attempt to sell it.Originally Posted by 707F78657972170 link=1312978609/75#75 date=1313765810
I have got it!
Have been messing with for about an hour, clearly need to dial in a bit better but first impressions good. I will be back with more comments but now its arrived they could be less often ;)
Well after a long night of work, I drove out to Sylvania to pickup our machine from cuppacoffee. I gotta say, I am extremely pleased with the machine. Just got home and set it up about 45 minutes ago, and managed to get one beautiful cup out of the machine (after 3 attempts at tuning in).
Coming from using a cafe roma, this machine was a massive upgrade. Ive got another long night of work tonight, so am looking forward to the countless cups of coffee Ill be going through.
The one issue I am experiencing (which is probably due to over-dosing) is that when I remove the portafilter from the group head, the spent puck sticks to the shower screen. This seems to happen regardless of how little I dose.
This seems to happen to me when its under dosedOriginally Posted by 644B5C2A0 link=1312978609/84#84 date=1313815685
Originally Posted by 7B757D787F717E6266160 link=1312978609/35#35 date=1313454700
I managed to fluke what I would consider a ristretto this morning, about 30ml in the same time as last night using the same grind (it was a lot cooler in the house this morning) I tasted it expecting it to be horribly bitter and over exracted but what I got was a delicious shot with slightly more acidity a lot more kick and the biggest caffeine hit Ive ever had from a shot of coffee. Ive only been drinking espresso for about 2 months now so my palette is still adjusting to it but I can say I enjoy and appreciate good coffee more than I ever had since I started drinking espresso.
Adjusted the grind and pulled another double for a latte, milk was easy as last night, quality from the steam is far beyond the wet steam that is produced by a silvia.
Okay, so a week into using my BES900 and Iím ready to put in a review.
Firstly, I have to commend Dennis at Cuppacoffee for terrific communication and service throughout the buying process.
Now the machine was well packaged and easy to open. Very quick and easy to get onto the bench and up and running. Placing the filters and other paraphernalia in the water reservoir ensures the user realises to install a filter before filling the reservoir.
The machine appears very well built from the outside. It is very neat and seems sturdy enough. All the buttons, dials and the guage seem well fitted and operate smoothly. The paddle on the steam wand would feel a whole lot better if it was metal though. The portafilter is nice and heavy and seems well made and fits into the machine in a reassuringly sturdy manner. It all feels quality above what you would ever expect from an ďapplianceĒ company. But this is what I expected of this purchase too, given the price and the reviews that had come before it.
The machine has a great large sized reservoir and very convenient section at the top front of the machine to fill the reservoir without having to remove it. Visibility of water level is also superb from the window at the front and the LED that creates a shimmer on the water surface.
The machine was very fast to reach temperature, however I am finding it is still best to let it warm up for at least 30 mins for optimal results. I leave the portafilter in as loosely as possible so it heats up as well and donít have to run the hot water tap as much to warm up everything. I still use the hot water tap to warm my cup as the cup warmer only takes the chill off the cups rather than making them hot, at least on these winter mornings anyway.
A lot of the little Ďadded extrasí that donít add to the result in the cup, certainly add to the pleasure of using the machine. The built in clock and auto turn on feature so I can have the machine turn on 30 mins before I wake up. The built in shot timer. The retractable wheels to move the machine around the benchtop for cleaning etc. and yet sits firmly in place with the wheels retracted. The easy to fill reservoir as mentioned. The large drip tray with very easy to empty Ďspoutí section and the tray that hides behind it that holds all your tools and spare baskets. It really is a well thought out machine that is a pleasure to use.
Before getting onto whatís in the cup Iíll give some background first as requested by Chris. My coffee history starts with supermarket coffee in a plunger, followed by stovetop moka pot. Then onto a low range Sunbeam espresso appliance and discovering fresh beans but having them ground in 200g lots as I had no grinder. Upgraded to a 2nd hand Imat Junior (a previous incarnation of the present day Lelit/Mokita etc.) and then paired that with the EMO480 grinder when it was released. I then went onto my Pavoni europiccola and a Fiorenzato Doge grinder and, of course, home roasting.
Now the BES900 certainly has it when it comes to whatís in the cup. I have been producing amazing espresso, very rich and even creamy espresso with a very broad flavour profile. It really allows for a lot of the beans nuances to shine through. The best shots I have managed to pull on this machine rival anything I have had anywhere. Iím still practising on being able to pull those sort of shots more often though. That being said, I am consistently getting very good shots already. It is an easy machine to get good coffee from.
I should mention Iíve been using an espresso blend from Cuppacoffee that came complimentary with the machine which is a Ugandan Bugisu and PNG Kimel Grade A blend, and some of my home roasted Yemen Mocha Ismail. And grinding with my Fiorenzato Doge. Iím using a VST 18g basket with fitted Pullman Barista tamper. A plug for Pullman tampers here too Ė great to do business with and an amazing quality product.
The temperature stability of the machine seems flawless. I have only been using the preset 93 degrees so far whilst I learn the machine but it seems flawless to me, producing incredible results in the cup. I am excited about learning to play with different temps with different beans in the future. And this sort of temperature stability is a godsend coming from the Pavoni where everything revolves around and hangs upon pulling the shot at exactly the right time to get the right temp for extraction, and after two shots thereís no more unless you like burned espresso.
The BES900 is an amazing luxury for me in that I can walk up to the machine at any time and pull an espresso at perfect temp, and can pull as many shots in a row as I am likely to ever need whilst steaming milk simultaneously. I still love my Pavoni, but I must say the BES900 has taken over in a big way. It produces a far richer and bolder espresso than the Pavoni and the Imat previously, which also allows for more flavours to shine through on the pallete.
Now the steam was disappointing in power for me. Having used some E-61 type machines in the past I was expecting steam to be similar if not even more powerful. This is not the case. However, that being said, it seems I cannot help but get really good microfoam from this machine. I think I would have to try very hard to get bad microfoam. It is really easy to use and produces great results, and since itís a home machine with no need to keep up to a line of customerís demands, a lack of power really is a small complaint.
Overall, I love this machine. I am producing consistently great espresso with the occasional shot that rivals anything I have ever had. I know this machine can put the goods in the cup. It is also an absolute pleasure to use with all the added extras. It is only one week in, but I have had absolutely no problems with the machineís operation. It appears well built from the outside, I am willing to take the word of others on this forum who have seen the insides that it is also well built on the inside. The machine is simply great value for money. In my mind the kind of machine to better* the BES900 would be something like the Alex Duetto which costs a whole lot more, and even still would probably be a very similar quality result in the cup. I canít help but recommend this machine to people who are thinking about it as their next machine.
Below is some shots of my setup along with a glimpse of my view whilst I prepare my coffee (and that is on a dark rainy day!), and some pour shots. I found the pour shots a bit difficult, as I attempted to start the (coffee) shot and then quickly setup the (camera) shot, so the focus ended up more on the backplate than the espresso pour.
Great review Pavoniboy. Thanks!
There has been plenty of criticism spread thickly since news of this machine went public. Far too much of this had nothing to do with the machine.
Im delighted to see the first few runs on the board and am looking forward to reading further contributions from the growing club of owners.
Good review Pavoniboy. I am quite interested to see how the Breville will affect Hx sales. Whilst it is obviously a category killer in its price range, would there be any compelling reasons to buy an E61 Hx machine eg VBM jnr over the Breville ? Apart from the obvious appliance vs Italian machine debates.
What Im trying to say is if you have $4000 to spend buy an Alex, if not buy the Breville, would there be any reason to consider a $2500 Hx machine over and above the Breville.
This is a serious question maybe best answered by Chris or Dennis, and please no Breville-hater posts to inflame the situation. Obviously the jury is still out on longevity/serviceability etc, but the results in the cup seem very good.
My next machine was always going to be something like the Alex Duetto when upgrade-itis finally hit me. However hypothetically I could sell the VBM and buy the Breville and still have some change...would this be a silly choice ? Interesting hypothetical* :)
I think that time will tell Bennett,Originally Posted by 54535858534242360 link=1312978609/90#90 date=1313839765
There will always be a market for Italian bling.
A great machine will produce great coffee when all the other planets align and I think that many people will continue to buy on looks and will be thrilled with their purchases and what is in the cup. Its why I originally purchased my old e-61 when I could just have easily bought a PID Linea or something similar.
I think the Breville will have huge impact in the "lower end" market. For mine, $1.1k on Silvia and Rocky for example might not be as attractive with the Breville not all that far away. Many will simply save a bit more and step up.
In the last couple of months, the number of enquiries for single boiler machines (even the e-61 versions) has dropped off dramatically.
I think the top end domestic market is safe. What may happen though- and I think I am seeing it- is that those in this market see the value in rotary pump. Giotto Evoluzione/Izzo and similar machines are going to do really well. I think we will see more real lever machines as well. I would LOVE to get a Pompeii group onto an Alex platform.* 8-)
Back to dual boilers....Lower end vibe pump dual boilers might have a tough time. Breville or Minore III/IV?* :-?
Thanks for your comments PB and I enjoyed reading your review and the pics too. Nice view! ;)
Ive been raving about this machine for quite a while and its good to see that all my hype, wasnt all just hype.
Bennett, like Chris, Im fortunate to have a wide choice of machines available to me and have owned some real beauties. My next home machine will be the Dual Boiler. I just love its functionality and ability to cater equally to either geek or newbie.
Personally, I think that one of the key things this machine has done is to give the status quo a good shake. It has filled what was a pretty big hole in the market. Given the amount of these machines Ive sold to date, and the number I know have been sold elsewhere, either traditional Italian machine sales have suffered, or we are seeing a whole new generation of coffee drinkers enter the home machine market!
I must admit that just a year to two ago, I was one of those people who would disparage the quality of goods that came from China - the introduction of the Smart Grinder with the Dual Boiler hot on its heels has made me reconsider. I think we have some interesting times ahead.
I wonder what Breville will come up with next? ::)
Im waiting for the Breville Smart Coffee Roaster ;)Originally Posted by 3D2B2E2E3F3D3138383B3B5E0 link=1312978609/92#92 date=1313843369
Its only my personal opinion and choice, but I chose the Breville and the change left over in my bank account over an Italian HX machine that I was previously considering.Originally Posted by 5B5C57575C4D4D390 link=1312978609/90#90 date=1313839765
+1 Nav =DOriginally Posted by 537C6B1D0 link=1312978609/93#93 date=1313846983
I want the Breville Smart Teamaker * 8-)
Just ordered my machine today :). Should have it sometime this week. Cant wait to get my hands on it after reading all the positive comments here.
Keen to see one in the wild. None on display at Myer, DJs or HN Carindale :-?
Pavoniboy, you said the steam was disappointing in power - just wondered how this translates in terms of the time taken to get good microfoam?