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Thread: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

  1. #3951
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Here's a direct link to the post in question: Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    FYI the post number, in this case 3829, is a link to that post.


    Java "Right click and copy link location" phile
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  2. #3952
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoes2 View Post
    ...Yes...and "eventually" the sky will fall in too.
    That is by no means certain - certainly not as certain as the PF going all the way over and not being able to be tightened to stop coffee leaking - if forseeing this is rocket science and that makes people here whingers so be it. You want to lay odds on if this will happen inside or outside the warranty period? In any case, 13 just got his machine back from his second repair so that will be a third assuming nothing else breaks in the mean time. Do you think that's reasonable for just over 1 year of ownership?

  3. #3953
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    I think its fair to assume stuff break/wears down. Thats like getting upset at Toyota when your corollas wheel bearings die. Eventually they will and you just replace it and life goes on.

    I wasnt complaining or upset, but havent really gotten a straigth answer until now so i have been aware. This is my first serious coffee machine and it gets quite a bit of use. On average since ive owned it have mad 6.4 cups of coffee a day, not all to myself! But most

    But with that much use and the norm being the porta locked into the centre, this is how i would expect. So when the norm of locking into centre begins to change, then i see something unexpected and being human nature expect it to not be working "normally"
    But if this is how the machine has been built and Breville has suggested this is normal then im fine with that.
    Granted its a bit annoying, but it still works fine!

  4. #3954
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaDude View Post
    Actually, I don't. Phil is going to get me a replacement, so my current opinion is BREVILLE RULEZ!
    The new machine is on its way, and I've learned to be more careful about who I buy from.

  5. #3955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    I think its fair to assume stuff break/wears down. Thats like getting upset at Toyota when your corollas wheel bearings die. Eventually they will and you just replace it and life goes on.

    I wasnt complaining or upset, but havent really gotten a straigth answer until now so i have been aware. This is my first serious coffee machine and it gets quite a bit of use. On average since ive owned it have mad 6.4 cups of coffee a day, not all to myself! But most

    But with that much use and the norm being the porta locked into the centre, this is how i would expect. So when the norm of locking into centre begins to change, then i see something unexpected and being human nature expect it to not be working "normally"
    But if this is how the machine has been built and Breville has suggested this is normal then im fine with that.
    Granted its a bit annoying, but it still works fine!
    18 months after the release in Aust and we're talking about parts of this $1500 machine wearing out!!!!!! and being ok with that, seriously.
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  6. #3956
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Haha, well i'm not really upset that its broken, im upset that the repairer takes 2 weeks to fix it cause they are so busy, which means i go without the usual coffee for so long.

    Just because its a $1500 (even tho i paid $1100) , doesnt mean anything. It not an indication of quality. Plus the Breville manual and other experts in the field of these machines have suggested that it is accepted within the operation of the machine that the porta needs to be tightened until the seal is made. So this means if it has to be fully right then so be it, thats how the machine was made.

    I didnt build or engineer the machine so its not really correct for me to argue with Breville about what they specify as acceptable operation of the machine. Consumers can decided if they feel that is acceptable by buying the machine or not. But i'm happy with the machine, nothing other than wear and tear bits has failed. I'll be super annoying if the pumps or boilers die in this time frame.

  7. #3957
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    Haha, well i'm not really upset that its broken, im upset that the repairer takes 2 weeks to fix it cause they are so busy, which means i go without the usual coffee for so long.

    Just because its a $1500 (even tho i paid $1100) , doesnt mean anything. It not an indication of quality. Plus the Breville manual and other experts in the field of these machines have suggested that it is accepted within the operation of the machine that the porta needs to be tightened until the seal is made. So this means if it has to be fully right then so be it, thats how the machine was made.

    I didnt build or engineer the machine so its not really correct for me to argue with Breville about what they specify as acceptable operation of the machine. Consumers can decided if they feel that is acceptable by buying the machine or not. But i'm happy with the machine, nothing other than wear and tear bits has failed. I'll be super annoying if the pumps or boilers die in this time frame.
    Crikey 13, you're a retailers dream come true.

  8. #3958
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    What should i do though ? I'm not tryign to take the attitude that im going to just sit there and take it.

    But should i goto Breville screaming saying "YOU SAID THE PORTA NEEDS TO TIGHTEN UNTIL IT MAKES A SEAL, WHICH IT DOES, BUT THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, I WANT IT TO TIGHTEN AT THE CENTRE NOT THE RIGHT, EVEN THOUGH IT WORKS THE SAME."

    What do you suggest i do then ? It needs a bit extra on the right to seal and it does, so what more can i do ?

  9. #3959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    What do you suggest i do then ?
    Take it up with the manufacturer? Given you have made identical comments 10, perhaps 20 times here, I'd figure that most who read this thread have grasped the general idea
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  10. #3960
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    But i have done that and they say its normal ?

  11. #3961
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    *repeatedly beats head against brick wall* Expletive deleted.

  12. #3962
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    But i have done that and they say its normal ?
    What exactly do you want the members of this forum do do about it 13, as Chris commented, we hear your message loud and clear, the next step is up to you.
    Repeating the same thing over and over on this or any other forum will serve no purpose other than to annoy people.

  13. #3963
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    I wasnt intending to continuely go on about, but others where making comments so i was just repsonding..

    just leave it at that then! It still makes good coffee!

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    So much angst in this thread...

    Have been using my BDB for two months now, some thoughts:
    The quality of life aspects such as fast warmup and ability to steam milk at the same time as pouring a shot in a machine that is relatively inexpensive are great.

    Every now and then I would pour a "god shot" on our siliva, however the average shot from the BDB is better than the average from miss silvia, the BDB is more forgiving in this regard.

    I had to un-learn the quirky steaming method required for the old machine, the new one is very simple and repeatable.

    The cleaning cycle is convenient and effective.

    The first shot I poured with the machine I guessed the grind size, filled the double basket and pressed the double shot button, good coffee came out. The second shot I tweaked the grind and did a manual pour, great coffee came out.

    I would definitely buy this product again.
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  15. #3965
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    I see that the group seal is a consumable and easily replaced part of any coffee machine. It will wear out or lose its compressibility at a rate depending on the use and abuse by the user.

    I have used my BDB machine for 19 months with the original seal, making about 6 shots per day and last weekend I made about 50 coffees for friends and I still get a good seal with the portafilter handle at 6 o’clock.

    I remove the portafilter from my machine while it is turned off to take the pressure off the seal and the insert.

    I give the portafilter a Phil wiggle during cleaning but do not wiggle it while it is under full pressure.

    I back flush after each brewing session and do a chemical clean about once a week.

    With my usage and care I have never had to replace the group seal in any machine I have ever owned.

    Barry
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  16. #3966
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    I do exactly the same as you Barry. Your amount of usage sounds same as mine (6 cups)

  17. #3967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    I do exactly the same as you Barry. Your amount of usage sounds same as mine (6 cups)
    Same for me, and I haven't seen any wear in 1720 cups over 13 months.

  18. #3968
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    got my machine back last night, I was impressed with the service with Swift appliances in Perth. Drop the machine on Tuesday, got a phone call on Wednesday afternoon saying that machine is ready for pick up. Went in on Thursday, i was advised that they have replaced the O-ring with a new style of O-ring. However, they found something really hard stuck in the water path and cant get them out.
    Technician advised that it maybe lime scaled build up and say the same problem may come back in the near future. Even the technician was puzzled as my machine went to the repair shop abit too often, once in 07/2012 and now (02/2013). Next stop maybe good to contact breville directly if my machine were to fail again.
    No sure if anyone in the forum has simillar 'hard' stuff stuck in the water path.

  19. #3969
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    yo kohnicky.

    I take my machine to Swift in Perth also.. How did you get it back that quick?? Both times ive had my machine in there its been there for 2-3 weeks! Maybe they had your parts on hand.
    Yes mines been in once for exactly same reason as yours. It had a blocked path and was running realyl slowly. I think its cause perth water is pretty crappy

  20. #3970
    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Are you WA guys running decent water filtration together with the in machine filtration unit?

  21. #3971
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    13's issue with the lock in position is not a result of the Group Head collar wearing. It's more likely the lugs on the PF are slightly thinner than spec. This was originally an uncontrolled dimmension & relied on the skill of the technician hand finishing this part after casting & machining. This is now a controlled dimmension with a tolerance being measured during QC. 13's PF issue is being addressed by us directly.

    Cheers, Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightp View Post
    13's issue with the lock in position is not a result of the Group Head collar wearing. It's more likely the lugs on the PF are slightly thinner than spec. This was originally an uncontrolled dimmension & relied on the skill of the technician hand finishing this part after casting & machining. This is now a controlled dimmension with a tolerance being measured during QC. 13's PF issue is being addressed by us directly.

    Cheers, Phil

    Phil

    Can you tell us what will be different in the new versions of this machine that are coming out this year? Are they mainly internal changes or are there design changes also?

  23. #3973
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightp View Post
    It's more likely the lugs on the PF are slightly thinner than spec...... This is now a controlled dimmension with a tolerance being measured during QC.
    Cheers, Phil
    Would this also be the likely root cause for all those people that have the PF sliding off during extraction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightp View Post
    13's issue with the lock in position is not a result of the Group Head collar wearing. It's more likely the lugs on the PF are slightly thinner than spec.
    . 13's PF issue is being addressed by us directly.

    Cheers, Phil
    How does that explain the fact that it is only a recent problem ?
    But its good to hear the issue is being addressed directly
    A replacement PF ??? ..

  25. #3975
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    How does that explain the fact that it is only a recent problem ?
    It doesn't, I had the same issue when my machine was returned after the o-ring repair. Before the repair the naked PF did not leak when locked at 6 o'clock, after repair the PF needed to have the shine taken off the lugs to stop it slipping during extraction and has to be locked to 4 o'clock to stop it leaking. My guess is the group head has somehow been misaligned during the repair. I was also getting a loud metallic click as pressure ramped up during extraction that would also cause the pressure gauge to flicker after the repair. This click has since faded away, whatever it was wearing itself in or breaking off I guess.

  26. #3976
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Wasn't the solution to ensure the seal is dry and the lip of the porta dry and coffee free so its dry silicon locked onto metal ?

    sideways: yeah Bombora water softener and a brita jug + the intank filters!

  27. #3977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    *repeatedly beats head against brick wall* Expletive deleted.
    ........+1

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    ...Hi...a bit of interesting reading from "Coffeegeeks"...P.McKnight

    Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 12:12pm
    Subject: Re: Err Code help on Breville dual boiler

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Err1 is generated when the software detects a signal from the brew boiler NTC that is not within a specified range. From initial production, there were a batch of NTCs that were not within our required spec. That's why some have reported this happening on multiple machines. Sometimes tracking down these intermittent issues is really hard because they don't present themselves everytime the machine is used. Usually turning the machine off at the wall socket & turning back on will allow you to continue to use the machine, and sometimes it never happens again....if it does continue to occur, then return it for service & the NTC will be replaced.

    Cheers, Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    yo kohnicky.

    I take my machine to Swift in Perth also.. How did you get it back that quick?? Both times ive had my machine in there its been there for 2-3 weeks! Maybe they had your parts on hand.
    Yes mines been in once for exactly same reason as yours. It had a blocked path and was running realyl slowly. I think its cause perth water is pretty crappy
    Hello 13,
    apparently they have the part in their store. According to the technician, O-ring failure is the common issue for this machine.

    The guy told me that he has changed a new type of O-ring but still no promise if it will fix the issue permanently

  30. #3980
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohnicky View Post
    ..The guy told me that he has changed a new type of O-ring but still no promise if it will fix the issue permanently
    Havnt i read that the latest solution is to replace the "O" ring with a full flat silicone (?) gasket. ?

  31. #3981
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    Hi all,
    I hope you are all well.
    This is my first post to this forum - please let me know if I'm doing something wrong.

    I am here to seek the advice of the rest of you regarding my brand new BES900. I have recently made the switch from a stove-top turkish coffee maker, so I am learning about how to actually make coffee properly as well as trying to figure out the machine. I have read the instruction booklet and the advice it gives, but I am having extraction problems and am after some troubleshooting advice, because sadly I just can't work it out by myself.

    background info:
    I have the shot temp on 91 degrees. All other settings are the default settings. My shots are taking the recommended 8-10secs to start coming through. I am using store-bought pre-ground coffee as I haven't yet bought a grinder.

    problem:
    My shots are basically exploding out of the machine - the shot is spurting out of it machine and not much of it is going in the cup. It's not spurting out from where the group head meets the porterfilter, but from after it gets through the (dual wall) basket, where it's meant to stream nicely down each side. It doesn't stream down nicely at all... and the cream on my shot looks like dirty beach foam. It's just awful.


    I can't hide my ignorance - I don't know a lot about what I'm doing, but I did read the booklet before posting here and didn't find anything to help me. If anyone can suggest what I can do to try to fix this I'd really appreciate it.... the current extractions are quite embarrassing!!!

    Thanks,
    Katie

  32. #3982
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottarpants View Post
    I am using store-bought pre-ground coffee as I haven't yet bought a grinder.
    There-in lies your problem. Get rid of the store bought pre-ground coffee, buy a decent grinder, get some good whole bean fresh roasted coffee from a Roaster (Not a grocery store!) and use the single walled filter.


    Java "One will never get good results using store bought pre-ground beans!" phile
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  33. #3983
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    Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottarpants View Post
    Hi all,
    I hope you are all well.
    This is my first post to this forum - please let me know if I'm doing something wrong.

    I am using store-bought pre-ground coffee as I haven't yet bought a grinder.

    Thanks,
    Katie
    There's your problem Katie. Until you buy freshly roasted coffee and grind just before extracting, you will not fix your problem. Buy a grinder and start using the single walled basket.

  34. #3984
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    Thanks both for your advice, I appreciate it. I have been looking into the BCG800 smartgrinder from Breville as well - do you have experience in using one of these? Or, have you worked out from your time with your own BES900 how fine the grind has to be to get the best extraction with a single wall basket? I don't feel like I can drink the coffee I am currently making and can't wait to go and buy a grinder and fresh coffee!

    Katie

  35. #3985
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    Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    I have a smart grinder and it is fine as an entry level small conical. As for fineness of grind, that's an enormous topic. To briefly summarise, there is no one fineness that works. It depends on the bean, the roast, the time from roasting, the dose, the temperature, the humidity....the phase of the moon...etc... Lots of factors. The aim, though, is to extract a certain volume (say 60ml with the double basket) in a given time (usually 25-30 seconds post preinfusion) and adjust finer or coarser as needed. Check out some of the resources on the Internet (www.home-barista.com has some good stuff to get you started)

  36. #3986
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    Hi,

    I have a quick question regarding my brand new BES900.

    The extraction takes approximately 35 seconds (including pre-infusion) to complete for one cup. However, the duration doubles / triples when I have both the brewer and steamer on at the same time.

    is this the expected behaviour?

    Jason.

  37. #3987
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    Thanks Mark, you are so helpful!

  38. #3988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcwyang View Post
    Hi,

    I have a quick question regarding my brand new BES900.

    The extraction takes approximately 35 seconds (including pre-infusion) to complete for one cup. However, the duration doubles / triples when I have both the brewer and steamer on at the same time.

    is this the expected behaviour?

    Jason.
    In a word... No! A double boiler machine should be able to brew and steam simultaneously without one operation adversely affecting the other.

  39. #3989
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    Katie,

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs and the BDB owners club.

    Preground coffee will never work as it will never be at the right grind and it will always be stale.

    I use a Breville Smart Grinder with my BDB with great results. I roast my own beans so I always have fresh coffee.

    Changing the grind is the variable input to adjust the time of the pour.

    Barry

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    Hi guys

    Long time coffee lovers, and first time poster here, just got my DB + SG a week ago and already consuming more coffee than I ever did

    I have a few question please if I could

    1. most of the time, after extraction, I took off the PF but the left over coffee is stuck at the group head, does anyone know why? my SG setting is default 1 shot, at roughly 75%-80% towards fine...
    2. I've done about 10 brews, yet, the pressure never gets pass 7? I never get close to the sweet spot 9

    Thank you for the help
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  41. #3991
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    Hi djvkool, welcome to coffeesnobs!

    1. You're under-dosing! Put more coffee in the filter basket by adjusting to 'more' with the amount adjustment. With the correct dose, the metal line on the edge of the tamper should be visible all the way round the basket when you tamp with about 15kg 'force'. Search the forum (top RH corner) for 'five cent test' as a further guide to the correct dose. Also when you remove the portafilter there should be a slight imprint of the shower screen on the top of your puck, and the puck should come out in one firm piece when you knock it out.
    2. Your grind is possibly too course, but get the dose right first, then adjust the grind to get 30ml in 25 to 30 secs, or 60ml in 25 to 30 secs with the double basket. If you haven't adjusted the pre-infusion away from 7 secs yet, that will mean 32 to 37 secs on the shot clock. If the pressure gauge still isn't hitting 9 bar, don't worry too much, but if you've got enough coffee of the correct grind in the basket, you'll come pretty close.

    Enjoy the journey!

  42. #3992
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    Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    Anyone read epicure in the age today? The BDB rated tops in review of auto and manual machines scoring 23.5/24.

    Sure, hardly a definitive review, but high praise nonetheless. Obviously longevity issues were not scored, but on taste, rated very high.

  43. #3993
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    The same feature on coffee is in today’s Sydney Morning Herald in the Good Food section.

    The road test of domestic coffee machines was done by Craig Simon, the 2012 Australian Barista Champion and David Makin a two times Australian Barista Champ.

    The 4 autos tested were marked down low mainly due to poor taste and milk frothing.

    Of the 5 manual machines the Giotto Rocket Evvoluzione, the only shiny Italian machine tested, was behind the top rating Breville Dual Boiler being down half a point on ease of use. The Sunbeam EM7000 Dual Thermoblock machine was behind the BDB on all points.

    Barista comment about the Giotto. “Someone with real skill could get a better coffee than even the Breville but it is hard to justify because of the price.” Over double the price.

    The Giotto has the advantages of having a rotary pump and can be plumbed in and it is sold and serviced by Chris at Talk Coffee in Melbourne.


    Simon says “ Of those tested, the Breville’s combination of price and quality was truly stunning making it the gold star selection.”

    Photos and text of the Road Test:
    http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food...302-2fcmm.html

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry_Duncan; 5th March 2013 at 04:41 PM.
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  44. #3994
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    I apologise if this has been discussed, but I just don't have time to read the entire thread. I have read quite a bit of it over the months I have been considering buying one of these machines.
    I have a couple of questions. I have found a deal on line that seems the best around ATM. They offer an extra 5 years warranty for $129. I have a feeling that it probably wouldn't cover any of the things that are likely to need attention. I think they would probably all go under "wear and tear". Does anyone here got one of these extended warranties? Do you think it is worth it?
    My other question is... I have a Silvia, that I am about to sell. I have a triple shot basket, a blind filter and a Pullman tamper that fits it. Would those fit the Breville, or should I sell them with the Silvia? In other words, can you tell me the size of the filter baskets that come with the Breville?
    I also want to buy a naked portafilter to go with it. Is there any particular brand/size I should look for?
    I just thought of yet another question. Sometime last year, Breville was offering classes with the purchase. I know that they no longer offer this, but I would love to go to some classes, if they are still available (even if I have to pay) I find it a lot easier to learn to use something new, if I get hands on lessons, instead of trying to decipher the manual

  45. #3995
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    Quote Originally Posted by csutak40 View Post
    I apologise if this has been discussed, but I just don't have time to read the entire thread. I have read quite a bit of it over the months I have been considering buying one of these machines.
    I have a couple of questions. I have found a deal on line that seems the best around ATM. They offer an extra 5 years warranty for $129. I have a feeling that it probably wouldn't cover any of the things that are likely to need attention. I think they would probably all go under "wear and tear". Does anyone here got one of these extended warranties? Do you think it is worth it?
    My other question is... I have a Silvia, that I am about to sell. I have a triple shot basket, a blind filter and a Pullman tamper that fits it. Would those fit the Breville, or should I sell them with the Silvia? In other words, can you tell me the size of the filter baskets that come with the Breville?
    I also want to buy a naked portafilter to go with it. Is there any particular brand/size I should look for?
    I just thought of yet another question. Sometime last year, Breville was offering classes with the purchase. I know that they no longer offer this, but I would love to go to some classes, if they are still available (even if I have to pay) I find it a lot easier to learn to use something new, if I get hands on lessons, instead of trying to decipher the manual
    Forget the extended warranty, they're a rip off.

    The Silvia gear won't fit the Breville.

    I'm pretty sure Talk Coffee Extreme machines for lovers of the brown bean one of our sponsors in Melb offers tuition, contact Chris and discuss the matter.

  46. #3996
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    The BDB filter basket size is nominally 58mm. Isn't that the same as a Silvia?

    The BDB portafilter is proprietary; nothing else will fit.

    The only naked portafilter that will fit the BDB is the one Breville sells: Naked Portafilter - Espresso - Beverages - Parts & Accessories

  47. #3997
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    The Pullman will most probably fit the BDB

  48. #3998
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    Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    If your in Sydney there's a roaster/cafe in wooloomooloo that offer classes and use the breville dual boiler for the class. Worth a look

  49. #3999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo.au View Post
    Hi djvkool, welcome to coffeesnobs!

    1. You're under-dosing! Put more coffee in the filter basket by adjusting to 'more' with the amount adjustment. With the correct dose, the metal line on the edge of the tamper should be visible all the way round the basket when you tamp with about 15kg 'force'. Search the forum (top RH corner) for 'five cent test' as a further guide to the correct dose. Also when you remove the portafilter there should be a slight imprint of the shower screen on the top of your puck, and the puck should come out in one firm piece when you knock it out.
    2. Your grind is possibly too course, but get the dose right first, then adjust the grind to get 30ml in 25 to 30 secs, or 60ml in 25 to 30 secs with the double basket. If you haven't adjusted the pre-infusion away from 7 secs yet, that will mean 32 to 37 secs on the shot clock. If the pressure gauge still isn't hitting 9 bar, don't worry too much, but if you've got enough coffee of the correct grind in the basket, you'll come pretty close.

    Enjoy the journey!
    Thank you Banjo, I will give that a go, I tried to dose more but the coffee spills everywhere haha...I'll keep practicing as this is my first manual machine, as I have been living with cafe coffees and Nespresso at home...

  50. #4000
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    Ha! Then you need something like a dosing funnel or dosing cylinder from Welcome to orphanespresso.com - to keep the grinds under control, or you can make one yourself by cutting down a circular plastic yoghurt container so it fits in the top of the basket. 170g Dairy Farmers containers work. Of course that means you won't be able to use the pf holder in the grinder and you will need to make an adjustment to the dose, because the presence of the pf holder causes the grinder to updose. With the funnel in place, I sit the pf handle on a 40mm block to keep it about level. You then need to distribute, settle and level the dose before tamping.

    Keep going, you'll get there, and what you'll learn along the way is worth as much if not more than than the prize at the end.

    Did I say end? Like I said the first time, enjoy the journey.

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