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Thread: Sunbeam EM6910 Repair pointers...

  1. #101
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    I have a similar problem with my EM6910. Using the advice on this excellent site I have tracked it down to the copper pipe that connects the thermoblock to the steam tap. I see you advise using descaler and a wire. I can soak the pipe in descaler (the pipe is completely blocked) but I cannot force a piece of wire down the tube, it always stops at the right angle bends.
    Using normal multistrand electrical wire I can navigate past the the bends and have determined the blockage is just past the rigt angle bend after the Thermo block connection and is blocked for about 50mm.

    Other than waiting for the descaler to get in there and do the work is there anything else I can do?

    I do not see the copper pipes available for sale anywhere either.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I don't see this problem listed so here goes. I bought a second hand 6910. I have 2 now. This one has a an issue with building pressure. The gage barely goes into the yellow arc and vibrates a bit during the pour. It doesn't develop any crema and the coffee is pretty average. I noticed it hisses a few times out the tray while warming up. My original machine does not do this. I've put a couple of tablets through the head and a reservoir of solution through as well. No effect.
    Just reading back through these - and I have read Xanthine's reply. The calcifying of the plumbing can be a big issue in dropping performance

    I had a problem with my machine surging and I was coming to the view that the pump was going. At first I thought the grind was too fine and that's why the pump was struggling, but backing off the grind just made dirty water.

    After looking at the posts and videos on the new Decent Espresso machine, I suspected it was channelling. The graphs that show up on their machine demonstrate channelling (pressure drops, channel closes, pressure goes back up) - although it is micro because they have a better grinder than my Breville. They made the comment about the quality of the grind, tamping and pre-infusion. Their machines pre-infuse at low pressure for up to 12 seconds.

    I tried doing that manually on my 6910 - let it pump for about three strokes (making sure I primed it before putting the portafilter on) - let it sit for 5-10 seconds and then run the shot.

    Without a change in anything else (same grind, same tamp), I now have no - or very little surging. It is probably placebo, but it seems to taste better too.

    The other thing I do is I do is make sure the grounds are distributed evenly across the basket by stirring with the thermometer probe as the grinder drops the grind into the basket and then try to even out the grounds.
    Last edited by steve7; 9th January 2017 at 03:28 PM. Reason: typo
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  3. #103
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    Hi guys just wondering if anyone could help with what is seemingly an easy problem. Been wanting to clean the internals of my steam wand as i'm convinced it's at least partially blocked with scale (despite running scale solution through it). I bought one of those skinny brushes but for the life of me cant figure out how to remove the steam wand end (as i've seen that people do it to get the brush into the wand). I've tried using a spanner etc to pull it off and it wont budge.
    Will be eternally grateful for the help

  4. #104
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Hi cj13
    Th nozzle should simply unscrew.

    DSCF5403.jpg

    If yours has not been removed for a long time it may take a bit of force.
    You will possibly also need to grip the steam wand with pliers to stop it from turning, but use something in the jaws to protect it.
    The photo shows an earlier model nozzle - the later ones are bullet shaped and do not have spanner flats.
    The thread is a standard RH.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj13 View Post
    Hi guys just wondering if anyone could help with what is seemingly an easy problem. Been wanting to clean the internals of my steam wand as i'm convinced it's at least partially blocked with scale (despite running scale solution through it). I bought one of those skinny brushes but for the life of me cant figure out how to remove the steam wand end (as i've seen that people do it to get the brush into the wand). I've tried using a spanner etc to pull it off and it wont budge.
    Will be eternally grateful for the help
    Put some Penetrene (the real anti corrosion one, not the imitators) on it every day for two or three days (try it every day to see when it frees) - it will work its way in and remove the corrosion / gunk that fixes the wand in place. Comes as a spray or little squirt bottle. Indispensable for all such sticky parts.

    Tampit

  6. #106
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    A number of posts (not just in this thread) suggest using a heavy duty de-scaler on the Thermoblock.

    I would not be using the steam pump to move the de-scaling solution through the Thermoblock, instead I will de-couple the pipework from both ends of the Thermoblock and use plastic tubing and a small external pump to get the de-scaling solution into the Thermoblock.

    Would this product be okay: Hillmark - Products - Descalers & Degreasers Range - Scalex

    Appreciate I will need to run plenty of clean water through after de-scaling.

  7. #107
    Junior Member Peej's Avatar
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    I thought I would offer a suggestion. When I was fixing and descaling my machine I used clean syringes and tubing (which were free). Depending on what part I was flushing and drawing out of, I used 5, 10, and 20ml syringes. These are called "luer lock" syringes and they have the exact size to use on copper tubing and the thermoblock. I also used what are called "winged infusion" needle tips, for the tubing not the needle (the needle can be cut from the tubing). You can get the syringes from a clean needle program. I also used a s**t load of vinegar, demineralised water and citric acid since from all the posts that warn against descaling products. When I had the steam section cleaned out and reassembled, I used a small amount of descaler followed by quite a few paranoid filtered water flushes.

    I hope this post makes sense over a crazy cat lady!

    Penni 😊

    Ps. Much kudos and appreciation for those contributing to the EM6910 threads be they questions, advise and / or tutorials not to mention the pictures 😇. I for one now can use mine pretty confidently knowing how they work under the hood. 👍👏
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  8. #108
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peej View Post
    You can get the syringes from a clean needle program.
    Now that's a good idea - I use syringes when bleeding the brakes on my bikes; I've been turned away from several chemists with looks of disdain in a single day before!

  9. #109
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    Google found me the EM6910 Service Technician Training Manual (Feb 2007). It is watermarked from the site. Missing pages 31-48 (exploded diagram and circuit diagram), but they are in the "service manual". The Sunbeam manuals are the worst product service manuals i have ever seen, but they are better than nothing, slightly.

    Found a you tube video - a guy put the EM7000 noise damper assembly on EM6910 and replaced the copper pipe with flexible nylon tube (white). Doesn't show exactly which parts are needed or how it goes together. The EM7000 service manual shows the noise damper assembly part.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RosUDdQ-6s

  10. #110
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    That was me. It was really just an experiment to see if it worked which it did. Not really practical unless the noise really gets to you.

    Nobody really commented wanting to know more but the like/dislike ratio is pretty bad so I assume people wanted more information, would have helped if they told me.

    The tube isn't a Sunbeam spare part, it was a spare hose from my stock that I'd salvaged from some other machine a while ago.

    Is your machine broken in some way and that's why you wanted to do the mod?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    That was me. It was really just an experiment to see if it worked which it did. Not really practical unless the noise really gets to you.

    Nobody really commented wanting to know more but the like/dislike ratio is pretty bad so I assume people wanted more information, would have helped if they told me.

    The tube isn't a Sunbeam spare part, it was a spare hose from my stock that I'd salvaged from some other machine a while ago.

    Is your machine broken in some way and that's why you wanted to do the mod?
    Sure looks practical. Had a huge problem trying to figure out which part was new from the video. I presume the damper screws on the pump. Then the piping needs to be rejigged to fit. I'd prefer to stick with the copper. Just want to try to make the noise quiet down. A much more expensive and bigger and heavier machine makes more noise and not much better coffee than our old still working krups!

    (Is the noise discussion better off here? http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...of-em6910.html I prefer to keep old threads alive for continuity but some mods don't like that.)
    Last edited by bluey; 4th May 2017 at 10:07 AM.

  12. #112
    Junior Member Moph's Avatar
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    Just noting something here as I haven't seen it mentioned yet - if your EM6910 develops a loud clicking sound when using the hot water wand or pulling a shot, being a click that is so fast that it's almost a hum, it's probably gunk in the solenoid valve. Mine developed a nasty sound over the last couple of weeks that didn't improve with cleaning or descaling, so I stripped it down and identified the solenoid as the cause.

    Took the solenoid out, pulled it down and gave it a thorough clean. Put it all back together and it's back to normal. I assume the gunk was preventing the solenoid plunger from going completely 'home' when operated resulting in it hammering rapidly back and forth causing the racket.
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  13. #113
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    Another interesting note - have had the machine running without covers for the last day just to check everything is working and that there aren't any leaks, and I found that the machine would turn off completely without warning after steaming for several minutes. I could switch it back on immediately and it would continue to work, but then switch off again several minutes later.

    The timing seemed pretty regular so I timed it and it was around 2m 35s from start of steam operation to shutdown. After scratching my head for a while I realised that the only thing that was different to usual (other than me poking around in its insides) was that I didn't have the rear plastic cover on ... and in my case that cover has a rare earth magnet glued to it to overcome the usual defective low water level detector. So the low water warning was active while I was testing the machine.

    Popped the cover back in place, ran the steamer and had no issues. Went for 4m without error before I turned it off.

    TL : DR If you have low water warning active, the EM6910 will switch off after 2m 35s of steaming. Clear the low water warning and you'll be back in action.

  14. #114
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Why on earth would you want to steam for two and a half minutes?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Why on earth would you want to steam for two and a half minutes?
    Because it takes around that long to steam milk for our two morning lattes - 450mL milk in a 900mL jug. It was still a little shy of target temp at 2m 35s mark.

    No, it's not the perfect way of doing it. Yes, that's probably too big a jug and too much milk for the EM6910. But for our morning heart starters it's convenient and makes a pleasant tall latte without any fuss.

    I make our evening lattes in smaller glasses using around 300mL milk in a 600mL jug. Much better texture and taste but also more time consuming and a smaller volume, so not what works for us in the morning rush =)

  16. #116
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Crickey, can you taste the coffee

  17. #117
    Junior Member Moph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    Crickey, can you taste the coffee
    60mL double shot per glass using a 22g dose in a 20g VST basket ... the 225mL milk per glass stretches out to around 275mL, so that's a espresso:milk ratio of around 1:4.6 ... plenty strong enough for a larger morning brew. Total volume is around 330mL which is just a normal tall drinking glass.

    For our evening lattes I use 250mL Bodum glasses so that's 60mL espresso to 180mL milk for a ratio of 1:3. I wouldn't want to go any stronger than that.
    Last edited by Moph; 2nd June 2017 at 07:26 PM.

  18. #118
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    Hi All, what an awesome thread...

    Sadly, my EM6910 is in need of help again. With help from this site, I've done work inside before - declogging pipes when it wouldn't back flush properly, replacing the collar etc. But I fear more serious surgery is now required...

    Essentially, whilst it's still producing shots, the pressure gauge isn't rising and the puck is much wetter than it used to be. Changing the grind doesn't make too much difference to either the gauge and the wet puck (nor does increasing the dosage), although it does affect the pour as it should.

    Initially, I just assumed the pressure gauge itself was dud, or the pipes to it were blocked. But now I'm not so sure. Reading through most of the thread I'm wondering if it's the pump itself (common issue?) or the solenoid, or something else. Seems both of those parts are quite expensive given the age of the machine - but I'm not sure I can bring my wife round to a new one (although reports of a 7000 at $400 might make it over the line!!!).

    Any guidance on further debugging would be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Anthony..

  19. #119
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quite possibly the 3-way solenoid is stuffed. The pressure gauge line tees off right at the 3-way so it can sometimes indicate this is the issue. Unfortunately theyíre a pretty low quality 3-way apparently. Do some testing to see if this is the case. Check to see if the 3-way valve is stuck open, blocked or stuck closed. Check the coil (ideally with a coil tester, but youíre just checking for continuity. With the machine unplugged of course). Some more learned members might have more insight so hopefully they chime in.

  20. #120
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    Also symptoms of when the rubber valve on the output side of the pump is playing up - sticking or deformed.

  21. #121
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    Thanks very much - I think I'll try and open it up today and have a good look around...

  22. #122
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    So, covers are off... Looking at the solenoid value, per picture, one pin is the source 240v, the other, when not brewing, is also showing 240v. When a brew cycle starts, it dives to 0v (ish) and the solenoid clicks. So, on the surface of it, it looks functional, although no telling at this stage whether the valve is indeed moving.

    Where is the rubber valve on the output @Chris? Per markup in picture?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #123
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    One terminal is connected directly to Active and the other terminal is switched to Neutral via a FET in the control board so the readings you got are probably correct.

    If the 3way is leaking you should see a trickle of water into the back of the drip tray during the whole brew time and not just a 'sneeze' at the end when it releases the pressure in the group.

    The brew pump over-pressure valve is in the "T" you have arrowed in your photo. From memory it is spring loaded and can be adjusted once the clear plastic tube has been removed, but should ideally be adjusted using a pressure gauge (not the one in the machine as this is likely to be very inaccurate)

    There is an earlier post with photos of the pumps somewhere on the forum but it would take a bit of searching to find (sorry, not sure where).

    Also, the pumps have an internal diode in series with the solenoid coil so can appear o/c when checked with and ohm-meter - best done on 'diode' setting.

  24. #124
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footleg View Post
    So, covers are off... Looking at the solenoid value, per picture, one pin is the source 240v, the other, when not brewing, is also showing 240v. When a brew cycle starts, it dives to 0v (ish) and the solenoid clicks. So, on the surface of it, it looks functional, although no telling at this stage whether the valve is indeed moving.

    Where is the rubber valve on the output @Chris? Per markup in picture?
    Are you getting water into the drip tray after a shot or backflush? This would indicate the solenoid is working. If itís flowing in there while the pump is running then itís stuck open.

  25. #125
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    ...ok - had some success. After removing some of the pipe work, it was clear that the short pipe, picture, was pretty seriously blocked.

    To answer some of the other questions, no, there was nothing coming back down the drip tray after a brew or when back-washing with a blank.

    So, it seems reasonable that if the solenoid is working, then the "blockage" is in the pipe BEFORE the t-junction. And yes, the pipe was blocked. Cleared it out and put it in some descaler, blew through it a little until it seemed to be running free.

    Now, we seem to be back in business - the pressure gauge climbs, it "sneezes" back in to the tray and the puck is drier! Although the sneeze is not as strong as it used to be... Pump or more build up?

    ** SUCCESS **

    Time for a major descale! Whilst I have the covers off, seems like a good time - will read up on the tips for descaling the steam and thermoblock.

    Thanks again to this site and the folks on it for making DIY possible!

    (PS - I hate putting the damn lid back on - the four screws that hold it are a pain - mine really seems to be a poor fit!)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Footleg; 3rd January 2018 at 05:11 PM.
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  26. #126
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    Great work Csers, another 6910, back up and running again.

  27. #127
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Glad to hear you got it going.

    I see you mentioned descaling the brew path but this is only effective for scale buildup in the thermoblock - it is better to use a 'detergent' tablet or powder to remove the coffee oils and fine grounds which clog the backflush pipework. Occasional fresh water backflushes between the chemical backflushes also help to keep things working.
    I have found the Cafetto Espresso Clean powder to be very effective and more economical than the Sunbeam tablets.
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  28. #128
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Glad to hear you got it going.

    I see you mentioned descaling the brew path but this is only effective for scale buildup in the thermoblock - it is better to use a 'detergent' tablet or powder to remove the coffee oils and fine grounds which clog the backflush pipework. Occasional fresh water backflushes between the chemical backflushes also help to keep things working.
    I have found the Cafetto Espresso Clean powder to be very effective and more economical than the Sunbeam tablets.
    What he said.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Glad to hear you got it going.

    I see you mentioned descaling the brew path but this is only effective for scale buildup in the thermoblock - it is better to use a 'detergent' tablet or powder to remove the coffee oils and fine grounds which clog the backflush pipework. Occasional fresh water backflushes between the chemical backflushes also help to keep things working.
    I have found the Cafetto Espresso Clean powder to be very effective and more economical than the Sunbeam tablets.
    Thanks, yeah, I do have some of that sort of stuff - "Premium Espresso Machine Cleaner" from "Clean Machine" apparently... You put a small amount in the blank then backwash. Guess I just need to use it and the descalers more! Although the water down here in Vic is pretty soft anyhow and there are no obvious signs of scale building up.

    Using a Sunbeam descaling liquid, I followed the process of heating the machine up, power off (at mains!), disconnect steam heat connector, run the steam (on the kitchen hob under the extractor on max!) until the residual clears and it's pushing water, powered off for 20 mins, run clear... Might look at a vinegar based option also...

  30. #130
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Yes, a couple of scoops of the powder in the double unpressurised filter with the disk in the bottom then run the backflush cycle - hold down single and double buttons and power up (from memory).
    The machine automatically runs 5 or 6 backflushes and the last one is a long flush with the three-way open so it pushes a good amount of water through it.
    It's also a good idea to soak the group handle, baskets & shower screens in a hot solution of the powder as this gets them really clean.

    Anyway, let's hope you get lots more good coffees out of it now!
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  31. #131
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    Hello everyone! Just wondering if any of you had a problem where when the hot water wand on a EM6910 is turned on, water leaks from the grouphead as well? Usually make cups of tea for the wife and coffee for myself so trying to avoid having got to put the kettle on as well as heat up the coffee machine.

  32. #132
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    I have an old em6910 with the following issues:

    - Steam wand pumps but never gets hot (just little pumps of cold water)
    - Group head sometimes leaks

    Is it worth repairing or should I look at buying something newer/better?

  33. #133
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallbigblob View Post
    Hello everyone! Just wondering if any of you had a problem where when the hot water wand on a EM6910 is turned on, water leaks from the grouphead as well? Usually make cups of tea for the wife and coffee for myself so trying to avoid having got to put the kettle on as well as heat up the coffee machine.
    Possibly the anti-drip valve.

    To check it first remove the shower screens -

    DSCF5670.jpg

    Then remove the brass nut using a 12mm spanner or socket -

    DSCF5672.jpg

    The valve should come out with it's spring -

    DSCF5673.jpg

    Check spring and tip of rubber valve for damage. I think I have seen new ones on Ebay or CS site sponsors-

    DSCF5674.jpg

    Also clean up the valve seat -

    DSCF5675.jpg

    Re-assemble in reverse order making sure the shower screens are seated properly in the rubber seal (not shown in the photos).

    Cheers
    Trev
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthine View Post
    Possibly the anti-drip valve.

    To check it first remove the shower screens -

    DSCF5670.jpg

    Then remove the brass nut using a 12mm spanner or socket -

    DSCF5672.jpg

    The valve should come out with it's spring -

    DSCF5673.jpg

    Check spring and tip of rubber valve for damage. I think I have seen new ones on Ebay or CS site sponsors-

    DSCF5674.jpg

    Also clean up the valve seat -

    DSCF5675.jpg

    Re-assemble in reverse order making sure the shower screens are seated properly in the rubber seal (not shown in the photos).

    Cheers
    Trev

    Thanks so much for the tip! coffee machine is packed up in a box at the moment coz we're shifting houses but will be sure to have a look at that. Will post the outcome once i've done the checks! Also good to see that its not just my group head that looks all crusty like that! i have given it a good scrub with a fine wool brush and it took away some of the calc/rust.

  35. #135
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    All good!

    Fingers crossed for success.
    If you look closely you can probably see signs of wear on that valve.

    The group head in the photos is from my box of spare parts - easier to photograph.
    I'm afraid I'm a 'search & destroy' typist and have never got any better at it so photos are much quicker.

    Look forward to hearing how you get on.

    Trev

  36. #136
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaker74 View Post
    Quick update on my machine, blown thermo-fuse. $4 from Jaycar and machine is up and running again.
    I love this forum, one little update like this and I was able to resolve my problem too! Other posts here include links to manuals and simplified instructions to break down the machine to get inside.

    I do still have a niggle, in that my power light continually flashes red even while the other lights are steady, doesn't seem to slow it down...

    Part: https://www.jaycar.com.au/228oc-thermal-fuse/p/ST3814
    Teardown: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/documentat...ent-guide.html
    Manual: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/documentat...ce-manual.html

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