Jaybee, you're up north somewhere aren't you? Do you use the fridge in winter as well?
Never much call for it in Canberra which is either cool and dry or hot and dry.
Jaybee, you're up north somewhere aren't you? Do you use the fridge in winter as well?
Never much call for it in Canberra which is either cool and dry or hot and dry.
I'm using old large Moccona jars stored in my kitchen cupboard. I thought about the one way valve idea when I read the quoted thread but it seemed to me, that way is only valid for long term storage. Seems to me regularly opening the bags to get beans for making coffee kinda defeats the purpose of the one way valve.
As near as I can reason it out, those bags exist to keep light out, and to release the CO2 that comes out of the beans over a period of time. Opening the bag lets in fresh O2 and there can be no build up of CO2 when the beans are being used on a regular basis. *puts on flame-proof suit* So it seems to me the idea that the best way to keep the coffee is in those one-way valve bags is not true... UNLESS you are storing the beans for a lengthy period.
Without going back to that thread, I presume some people have followed Jaybee's suggestion and tried various ways. The problem is, such a test ONLY applies to beans locked away for 2 weeks (or whatever period) while not being used. If, like most of us, you get enough beans to keep you going till they get old and you need more, the bags really have only one use. Buy your beans, divide them in half and store half in a bag until the in-use lot run out.
There's also the issue of fridge or not - seems to me that reason says in a high-temp climate (ignoring humidity because one would hope the storage method would exclude moisture from the beans) the CO2 will release faster from hot beans than from cold ones. The variation in (say) Tasmania might not be so extreme, but I can easily see beans in (say) 20ēC storing better in the cupboard than beans in (say) 40ēC.
i.e. if I was in QLD I'd be storing my beans in the fridge - and I will also be doing so in Bendigo over Summer. (if it ever gets to normal summer temps here - so far the warm weather has been, at best, a touch shy in coming forward )
It might be an interesting test for those with those bags to divide their next batch of beans and store some in a bag in the fridge and some in a bag in the cupboard and see how things turn out.
Journeyman, I think you're missing a key attribute of the one-way valve bags. You can squeeze the excess air out of them after each opening, prior to re-zipping them.
Suggest the one way valve naysayers have a read through these threads.
Its all been done before and makes a lot more sense than some of the hocus pocus being postulated here.
Thanks Barry. Prior to rezipping? Can you do it after zipping, seeing it is a one-way valve?
EDIT: Just went and tried on a bag I bought the other day - works fine doing it after zipping as well. Fills the room with lotsa lovely smells too!!!
Does letting the CO2 pressure build up to the point where it triggers the valve help or harm the freshness of the beans?
@Yelta - you should really work on your comms skills. You often come across in ways I think you are not intending.
Just did a pour from the other half of the 500g I bought on Saturday, which was not vacuum sealed. The pour was better, opened up mid way through (foamy) like the fresh opened one. The vacuum one on the other hand has already lost volume on this part of the pour, although I couldn't really differentiate them much taste wise. I have no doubt the vacuum packing keeps it fresh (not rancid) for longer, but also makes it go flat (or stale) quicker. I would add this takes time to happen under the vacuum pressure, as the pour in my YT video had been vacuum stored but only for a short time.
The volume is foam/CO2, not water though, as the shot volume I programmed on Saturday is still right, so the same amount of water passes through the puck, it just comes out with higher volume on really fresh beans before settling to around the same volume. So it could largely be a cosmetic difference.
Looking at getting an Airscape delivered from the US, or just some really good, tight bag clips - my roster doesn't use those silly zip-lock bags which are not air tight, so I will cut from the bottom (opposite end of the one way valve) and then reseal there too, with a strong clip with the bag folded over a few times, should be fairly air tight.
Mine doesn't use zip locks but they are one-way valves. Thinking about getting some from Andy - I figure if he sells them and others use them the zip lock should be useable.
One question for anyone using them - Andy says they are biodegradable - any estimates on how long before they need replacement? Or maybe, how many times do people re-use them... if at all?
*grins* My pleasure Yelta. It's something I have had to take correction about, so happy to pay it forward...
If you take care of them the bags will last will last for ages, never tried to work out how long but at a guess, using them weekly, a couple of years, simply wipe/wash them out after each use and take care not to cross things up when closing them.
Just reviewed my tape and the vacuum pour wasn't nearly as reduced as I thought. I could hardly pick them actually, maybe I was comparing live different parts of the shot. I'm pleased as punch now with my whole grinding and tamping and consistency. My last 6-7 shots could be carbon copies of each other, and no sign of channelling in any of them. Amazing how you can actually smell and taste those "notes" on the label when you get it all right.
For anyone interested, I grind (with 2 or 3 settling taps) until I get the correct weight which is between 19 and 20 grams. My group and basket weigh 584 grams so this is a total weight of 603 or 604 grams (no more having to keep the scales from turning off while grinding!). Using the knock box bar I then gently and quickly tap and level with my dosing sweep until it's completely level and settled. Then I do a light levelling tamp, light knock, nutate gently a little bit to get rid of any air pockets around the rim (generally where they are), then the final tamp and polish. It would look a bit ridiculous in a cafe but it works for me, and it's all about finding something that works for you.
I also found using the backflush disc is a great way to pre-heat the PF and basket. If you just let some water run through, they don't heat up very quickly. This also serves to remove any loose grinds from the last session from the shower head and 3 way valve, and it leaves a less drippy shower screen too (still make sure you dry it before locking the PF in).
I better stop now, drinking the equivalent of 5 standard coffees in the last 2 hours can't be too good for me.
You must have one of those new-fangled alarm clock things.
Seriously though, I live in Brisbane and I keep some of my coffee in the fridge in summer. It's double sealed - small supermarket ziplock bags inside one-way valve bags. Only a few days supply in each bag, and I take a bag out of the fridge at least a few hours before I need to use it. That way it comes up to room temperature before it is opened and the condensation occurs on the outside of the bag, not on the beans. From then on it is kept in a cupboard, not put back in the fridge.
I know that there have been posts here that are against refrigerating coffee, but I do it because I believe that where I live, it's better than keeping it for two or three weeks in hot cupboard in a hot kitchen.
I'm with jaybee on this issue. Try it for yourself, and make your choice based on taste, not on what other people say you should or should not be doing.
Whether this is information or misinformation may depend on three things i.e. location, location, and location.
As a matter of interest the average high summer temp in the Moonta is very similar to Brisbane, approx 28c, max highs here can reach 45c, unusual but it happens, the major difference in our climate is humidity, our summers are very dry.
As to storage methods, we're fortunate that we live in an old stone home with very thick walls, the summer temp in the kitchen never exceeds 25c, storage in a kitchen cupboard works just fine.
As far as storage time is concerned, I roast 750 grams weekly so am not faced with storing beans over 10 days.
So I guess I'm fortunate that I have a naturally cool dry area to store beans and roast (and consume what I roast) weekly so I'm not faced with trying to extend shelf life.
If you did manage to put your beans in a vacuum, say in a glass canister, the moisture in the beans (if any) would boil, as water in a vacuum boils instantly.
I do a lot of sous vide cooking, so I really should experiment with sealing up some of my roasted beans. At the very least it'll be interesting to see how much gas escapes from the beans.
I keep them in a vacuum container. I plan to run a comparison over the next week of my sealed up bag vs the lightly vacuumed container.
[aside]I've been trying to find out if sous vide can be done with vacuum bags for a Maxxon vacuum pack machine. Do you have information as to what plastics are suitable? I can try it to see if the plastic survives but I don't want to poison the missus if some types leach chemicals into the food.[/aside]
The bigger issue with plastic is using the right type for your vacuum machine. A proper vacuum chamber works with any regular plastic bag but a food saver machine requires a multi-ply (veined) plastic bag. (Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here)
If you wish to get pedantic about it the use of the term 'vacuum' means 'perfect vacuum' because no modifier has been used. To the best of our knowledge a vacuum does not exist. Nowhere in the observed universe have we found a vacuum, we've only found a partial vacuum. Nor can we make a vacuum no matter how much fancy equipment we use. Outer Space is nothing more than a partial vacuum. This is what a FoodSaver produces, a partial vacuum. The only difference between the two is the quality of the vacuum, i.e. how far below atmospheric pressure it is. Ergo in your posts you are using the term 'vacuum' in the exact same way as everybody else is, i.e. to mean a partial vacuum.
If you wish to refer to a vacuumed out FoodSaver container or bag as containing a 'partial vacuum' by all means feel free to do so. Undoubtedly most people will understand what you mean. Just as most people will understand what those who use the conversational/non-scientific 'vacuum' mean.
Java "We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
Aww...come on Javaphile, next you'll be telling me that my Miele Cat'n'Dog Vacuum Cleaner is neither a vacuum nor designed for pet grooming
Yaaay! Sous vide, here I come...
Back to the regularly scheduled program... I used supermarket beans for practice when I got my machine, but first I tried some old pre-ground stuff that had been in a container in the fridge for a while.
About four years worth of while...
Got more than a couple of sarky comments from the CS community for that...
Finally got my VST baskets, unfortunately the naked PF will be a while yet. The PF locks about 30 degrees less in the group with the baskets in. For fun, I tried 15g of coffee in the 15g basket - even though I could tell immediately it was underdosed by the tamped level in the basket (does EM7000 have an especially high shower screen?). Gush-o-rama and a swimming pool on top of the puck. Then tried 18g on the second attempt. Dose was right, but the pour was too quick. Not a gusher, but definitely underextracted. Went down one notch in grind and 18g again. A nice pour. Very slightly sour, but beans not quite at their peak. Can see what someone said about the pressure needle, pour was definitely no ristretto but the needle was on the orange/red border. Puck surface was wetter than expected - maybe 19g is the dose, or maybe that's normal with these baskets. It will be interesting to experiment with this and the 22g one further, gives me lots of options. But had I known what good results I could get with the standard basket when I ordered, I probably wouldn't have. Can't wait for the naked.
Tried the 22g. I guestimated dose would be about 25g (18 + 7). Left grinder on 10. Seemed underdosed but I guess the triple has more coffee to expand upwards, so tamped level should probably be lower. Long wait, eventually it started dripping out slowly, but was basically a choker. Went to grind 11, and dosed about 25g again. Nice looking pour to about 70mL - but taste was decidedly sour. Any tips? At 30g beans a go, experimentation is using up my supply quickly.
I strongly suspect that the EM7000 double basket (ignoring the silly 14g "single") is much improved over the baskets that came with the EM6910, so the potential for improvement of these VST baskets is lower. I don't really like the wet puck either because it leads to mould in the knock box from experience.
I examined shower screen depth of higher end machines and they're definitely deeper. So this is where the extra 4g comes from for the Sunbeams compared to recommended VST dose. What's interesting is that this extra 4g also applies to the Sunbeam supplied baskets - if you were to put such baskets in a deeper shower screen, they'd be much closer to regulation 14g and maybe 9g for single (since so much of the dose of the 14g "single" is in the top part where it's full diameter, it adds so much to the dose).
Try the finer grind, lower dosing with less tamp pressure? I dropped my EM0480 grind from 13 to 11 and tamped progressively but lighter than 3kg and dosed to about 3mm under the rim. Lovely coffee, slow pour (40 secs) and no blonding. I've learned the time of pour is just another variable and I think too often people use it as a constant and grind/dose/tamp to get the time of pour rather than seeing time of pour as something that depends on grind/dose/tamp.
A finer grind doesn't increase the level in the basket for same dose, if anything it decreases it. The correct tamped dose height for the EM7000 is I've found about 5mm below the rim. A 15g dose even tamped with 1kg tamp probably be about 7mm below the rim. Even when I'm just levelling it with the sweeping tool, it's well below the rim. Watching the EM6910 videos on my Sunbeam DVD, it does appear to take a higher dose in the basket - although that could just be Greg Davis jamming as much coffee in there as he can and hoping for the best.
The "progressive tamping" you're referring to sounds much like a dose evening method to eliminate air pockets and clumps, different to but with the same goal as WST distribution or what I do with light taps to settle the coffee during grind and afterwards once I have the correct dose. Once I went to scales (even with only 1g accuracy), my consistency became virtually 100% - and considering I was varing most likely 1-3g previously, and 1g makes a difference, it's little surprise my first few weeks with the machine had me scratching my head, with regular channelling, early blonding, different pour rates and blaming the grinder/grind settings.
Someone who works in a cafe and is a decent barista can generally judge pretty well a 16, 17, 18g dose etc. just by how it's sitting in the basket and after they sweep over with their finger. Although ridiculously overpriced, I've found the Scottie Callaghan dosing tools really good (although in truth, I only needed the 1+2 one). I might go to a local plastics place and see if they can make up a half a dozen for me.
My em7000 standard setup prefers a consistent solid tamp (not max, not light, three quarter?), and adjust the grinder to suit to get the needle to the orange, to give a nice taste. I`ve tried some variation, can get it overdone to not enough on the taste, keeping in mind I like a strong double shot latte overdone isn`t what i`m after either.
Examine your spent puck - did a lot of grinds go up the side (where the showerhead was)? If that's the case, you are overdosing. I was getting heaps of grinds up there before, now almost none.
Try a finer grind and regulation tamp (15kg) to 5mm below the rim.
well after thinking something might have been a miss the other week with the steamer my em7000 has let me down!
looking forward to a couple of sunday coffees this morning, crank the machine up and bang take that.
seems to be more water coming out of the hot water disperser than the grouphead, getting about 10ml in the glass when pouring and pressure guage not reading correctly.
anyone any ideas before it gets taken back to harvey norman tomorrow and the ensuing s@#t fight i am going to no doubt have.
i see it is a repair warranty and not a swap in the first 12 months.
You could try a descale programme - it also does the steam wand. But I doubt it will fix it.
I had one when they first came out and the same thing happened. I rang sunbeam and they authorised a return rather than repair. Took it back to the GG and got a credit and put it towards a dual boiler at the time.
did the de scale yesterday darkfatz think thats what stuffed it! it was working fine before i did that.
Hey everyone - total newb here but I just wanted to pass on my thanks to all the posters on this thread! I just got me an EM7000 and a Breville Smartgrinder and reading this thread has saved me a lot of hassle messing around with grind, dose and tamp in particular. I have two pictures up - what I came from (i know!) and what I have now. Needless to say it actually tastes like coffee now! So much steam. I am getting good single shots in the 'orange' now whereas when I first fired her up the grind was all over the place (I have tasted some of the worst coffee of my life in the last two days). I still need to work on 'me' but at least I have nice 'pucks', consistent tamped doses etc. Still a hint of bitterness there but I suspect my tamp needs some work. Sunbeam have a promotion in NZ at the moment for a free grinder but I read rave things about the Breville so I will sell the sunbeam grinder to finance this mean little package.
I did want to Breville Dual Boiler but it was simply a case of $$$. I also don't make coffee at home uber-regularly so thought this Sunbeam would suit better. Out of interest how often should one descale/backflush?
Friend of mine bought themselves a EM7000 to replace their old EM6910 which was a nightmare. It was supposedly repaired and was given as a "fully tested and functioning machine" from a Sunbeam repairer as a replacement for their other machine which had been damaged in transit due to insufficient packaging.
Trying to get it replaced was a marathon in the first place, took about 1.5 months. It lasted all of 2 months before the solenoid split and damaged the board. Group head seal was rubbish, pumps had been replaced and the connectors had been installed incorrectly and cross threaded the plastic plus some other rubbish. If I knew who the company was I'd name and shamebut unfortunately I don't.
Anyway, unboxed the brand new 7000 this morning, set it up, pulled some shots then went to steam the milk........pump made noises but absolutely nothing came out of the steam wand. Back to the good guys it is for a replacement.
I go to the electrical retailers often in the course of my job and I regularly see stacks of merchandise waiting to be sent back to the manufacturer due to being dead on arrival or failing soon after use. Theres always a steady stream of Sunbeam appliances in the mix, perhaps some improved quality control wouldn't go amiss.
I did notice one issue when I got the em7000 actually....water was pouring onto the benchtop after a shot or two, seemingly from out one of the feet of the machine. I had decided this was a major fault and was about to pack her up (not a good start I thought!). But realised the 'I' ring on the unit that accepts the water tank was dislodged. Fixed that with a toothpick and voila - no more leak! Bit of a worry though.