Hopefully someone can post some pictures here of the new machine after saturday?
Just a heads up for all Snobs heading to Aroma Festival this weekend in Sydney, we'll be debuting our BES920 Dual Boiler. Never seen in public before, this is a significant ugrade to the highly successful BES900. We'll have 2 on display for use by anyone wanting to put it through its paces. Improvements include:
2400W Heating system
Descale access by the user
Adjustable Steam Boiler Temp (pressure)
Volumetrics: able to select either time based or volume based
Exclusive Razor precision dosing tool
We'll also have 4 Oracle espresso machines to test drive as well.
Come down to Aroma & test drive one.
Hope we catch up with plenty of Snobs!
Hopefully someone can post some pictures here of the new machine after saturday?
Oo exciting. I demand photos/more info after Sunday for all those who aren't anywhere near Sydney!
Hi Barry I think those pictures are of the Oracle (with built in grinder) not the 920
About time - can't wait for the new bes920 thread. The BES900 thread is in need of an urgent descale...
Jimmy, you are right. It looks like Breville will have both the Oracle and the 920 on show on their stand on the MCA lawn at The Rocks Aroma Festival in Sydney this Sunday.
So, does anyone know availability dates for the bes920?
If so are they going to be made available to BES900 owners ? will they fit? unless I religiously keep the seal / collar clean,(Every 10 shots or so) the PF slips and is giving me the sh....
Don't get me wrong, I am making some of the best coffee I have ever tasted on this machine, but it really seems to be a big design flaw to me.
The following list summarizes differences on BES920 compared to BES900:
1) Self descaling system - able to be descaled by the user
2) More accurate shot dose using a single flow meter design
3) Improved design on double spout
4) Improved design on filter holder ramps
5) Improved material on shower head o-ring to reduce corrosion
6) Improved filter baskets design to reduce puk sticking
7) Higher wattage (2400W)
8) Adjustable steam boiler temperature to allow high steam wand pressure
9) New 480ml jug matched to the capacity of the steam system
Oh boy, more toys to make the missus suffer...BH and i just bort my 840 a few weeks ago now this cums out...mite hav to ebay it..
Just had a go at the Oracle machine at the festival. Dead easy to use and to make a great coffee and best of all no mess from the grinder! Would be a perfect machine for newbie that was considering a super automatic machine, but with all the benefits of a manual machine.
Would be a perfect machine for newbie that was considering a super automatic machine, but with all the benefits of a manual machine
For sure, that's pretty much what I thought at SCAA too, has the appeal of a super auto and the output of a semi-auto. Biggest difference is that it doses a good amount of coffee into a real sizes group handle (unlike most superautos that only do 7 gram shots).
It should be a big hit with the white-goods store buyers.
I just got home from The Rocks in Sydney where Breville are demonstrating two old style BDB BES900 and two of the new Oracle BES980.
Breville staff said that the Oracle and the updated, improved BDB should hit the market by about Xmas. What a great Xmas present.
The Oracle has many features of the BDB plus an inbuilt grinder with a unique automatic spiral tamping system which turns off the grinder when sufficient pressure has built up against the puck.
Unlike a super auto machine you still have to move the portafilter from the grinder to the group head.
The milk frothing is either automatic or manual with adjustable temperature.
The estimated full price is $2,500.
I get access to a friend's beachhouse for a couple of weeks/year and they have a Saeco there- shocking! This year I took a Domobar Junior and K3T down with the intention of leaving them there, but came to the realisation that many of the regulars would be unlikely to use them and would find the kit too messy.
If the street price of the Oracle moves like the 900 has I'd seriously consider an Oracle for their beach house. I think it would keep everyone (including me) satisfied for a holiday...
Time will tell.
Any more info/pics following the great unveiling?
Is the 920 a replacement/newer model of 900?
My Rancilio died after 5 years and so was going to go for the 900 until I heard about the 920. 6 months is a long wait though, is it that much better?
They are fairly minor changes that have been done for the 920. The quality of the coffee will be just the same.
isnt the ability to descale a big deal for the 900 to 920?
(or did I misread that the 920 can be self serviced?)
Has Breville announced the price of the 920?
I would fairly surprised if it doesn't come out at the same price point - $1499 RRP - particularly if it's going to replace/essentially be a 'v2' of the BES900.
On the other hand we might see a different level of aggression on the discounts available for them through the everyday non-sponsor white goods shops.
Have to wait til xmas I guess :\
Maybe Phil could do a video demo for this one in the near future akin to the Oracle/BES900 one?
To see Phil McKnight and Scottie Callaghan doing latte art with the Breville Oracle, look at:
Another short Oracle video:
thanks. Not sure I can wait 6 months...
my Silvia is barely working anymore, and the steaming is poor.
I like the idea that you can descale the new machine, but apart from that, might be better to just get the current model
anyone else tossing up between get one now, vs get the new one later?
Ive had my eye on the 900 for a while now wanting to upgrade from a Sunbeam EM6910 however now that i know the 920 is going to be released ill just wait for that.
Also gives me more time to ponder the thoughts of spending even more and getting the Rocket giotto evoluzione
If y'all are waiting for the 920 then I'd suggest looking for a capable grinder deal in the mean time. Assuming you don't already have something that's has step-less adjustment or darn near step-less. Besides the Breville Smart Grinder there's the Baratza line, look for the ones that have both macro & micro adjustments. Le Lit makes a nice solid grinder, PL043 I think. Check the reviews from reputable sites. I use Vario grinders, but honestly I think a Preciso would fit the bill for less.
Also look for a deal on a scale. One that does .1gm resolution is great, but any scale will help you eliminate variables.
If you already have a good grinder & scale, then distract yourself with something else!
Sorry if this is a repeat of basic info, it's always good to make sure everyone has the fundamentals down.
Precisos perform very well, but if I had my time again I'd save the extra hunjy for the jump to a Compak K3 or similar. I love my Preciso but it's not very durable and not serviceable in Australia, with the only distributor carrying minimal spares and preferring to replace.
Don't really need to find a deal on a scale; any 100g eBay cheapy ($10) with 0.01/0.05g resolution will do the job if you're only interested in inter-dose consistency.
I hope at some point Breville beefs up the smart grinder a little bit. It's a nice grinder but when doing espresso grinds it sounds like the motor is very taxed. That and a true stepless adjustment would take it from good to great.
Any updates on BES920 release date?
Do a google search of Breville BES920 and you will find it listed by a non-sponsor for late october release at $1478, they dont have all the details but they have new stock photos showing the descaling ports
Close up of the ports from the unit at this years SCAA:
Java "Still wanting a play" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
Has anyone else noticed Breville have halved the warranty period on this revision model ? With some uncertainty still about the ongoing reliability of the BDB it almost forces you into buying a warranty extension plan. I have been waiting patiently for the release of the BES920 but that reduced warranty may just be the factor to consider alternatives now.
Calibrator, in the states at least Bed Bath and Beyond carries all of Breville's espresso machines and has a "life-time no hassle return policy." Effectively that means you can return any item, at any time, for any reason. So, literally, if your BES920 breaks in 10 years, you can return it for a full refund. Essentially, this makes the warranty and even the question of longevity somewhat of a non-issue - presuming it's not breaking every couple months =) But I'm not sure if BBB has locations in Australia or ships there so this may be a moot point.
Does anyone know how exactly how the portafilter spout was changed? I haven't seen any pictures of it.
If I was the unlucky owner of a BES920 that failed just outside it's Breville issued warranty period I think I would try my luck mounting an argument through statutory warranty that it should last at least as long as it's BES900 brother.
Out of curiosity would a home user descale be as good as a professional descale? Would the professional descale use stronger chemicals or a more thorough technique?
Ref scale- You can descale at home just as effectively for the most part. Just keep doing it as needed. If your machine builds up 'hard scale' (that's what our espresso tech calls it) you are SOL. Since that might be a US saying, I'll just say you are S*** out of luck. The white, snow/ice crystal looking stuff isn't as bad and easily removed with an acid soak.
I am still perplexed as to why the 900 must be descaled by Breville, usually the procedure is pretty simple. Get acid it, let it soak, get acid out. Maybe there's something in there that won't survive the acid? I suspect we'll see something about doing it ourselves long before most of us need to do a descale. Where I live we have hard water, so this issue worries me a little.
I didn't know that BeanBay&B had that warranty, I'd like to see a link to that
Hmm, auto correct got me or something. That's Bed, Bath & Beyond... not BeanBay&B. I use BeanBay&B usually. Odd.
PrescottCR, here is the link to the BBB return policy: Return Policy - BedBathandBeyond.com
I called three separate stores and asked, "So wait, this means that in 10 years, I could return my machine for any reason for a full refund if I have my receipt?" The answer was "yes" each time. It's crazy. It's basically a life-time warranty.
For me, this is a big selling point for the BDB. The only reason I could justify spending $800-1000 more on an Italian DB is durability, but with this return policy I can't see what real benefits the competitors (quickmill, rocket, la spaziale) really offer. The features of the BDB are just as good, in my opinion, if not better than some of the comparable Italian models. So, what does the BDB lack that makes these competing models worth the extra $$?
Does anyone have any idea what the release date for the 920 will be? I heard through the grape vine it might not be till after Christmas...
Thebeardedbarista, Harvey Norman (Melbourne) said they have a few pre-orders and should be bringing them in at the end of next week.
Bumping to let everyone know its been spotted at Harvey Norman $1699
The instruction booklet for the 920 is available from the Breville NZ site-
Get the Instruction Book for this product
One thing I'm curious about that the manual doesn't specifically address- Does the shot clock stay displayed for longer than the 900? I know that was something a lot were asking for.
Other than that, the linked document shows a few more adjustments. Some of which include- steam wand temp, selecting between volumetric and time for programming shot buttons, descaling which includes using a test strip for your water and telling the machine where your water is on a scale (no pun intended) of 1-5. Looks like a solid machine, a nice evolution to the 900.
Oddly enough the NZ site has it listed as the Dual Boiler with Smart Grinder. Even though the SG isn't mentioned anywhere on the page. That would be a nice deal considering the NZ site still lists the 900 at the same price as the 920.
The 920 still isn't listed on the USA site.
Myer currently has the silver BES920 in stock with free delivery for $1274.15
Edit: Just went down to Harvey Norman to get some cleaning tablets for my Jura and asked about this one. The guy used the old line that they'd beat it to get my business but would be making a loss. So you should be able to get it for less than this price pretty easily.
Last edited by bxp; 23rd November 2013 at 04:19 PM.