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Thread: Breville BES920 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

  1. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    ....... Start on grind setting 6 ..........
    My bad. That should be 12....

    I can no longer edit the post so hope you get this Elzbeth.

    Original post edited to reflect correction
    Last edited by Javaphile; 7th January 2017 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Added Info

  2. #1452
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    Can anyone advise? I tried to do the clean cycle today but water is not running through. I filled the tank, I put the single filter into the porta filter, then the silicone disk, then a tablet. Inserted the porta filter. On menu went to clean, hit manual button. Machine runs and pressure builds, but no water is flowing out. It went for the whole 300 something seconds.
    I looked at YouTube videos of this and it shows the water running through. I tried both the single and dual wall pucks.
    Is water supposed to be able to run thru with the cleaning disk in?

  3. #1453
    Member saroadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freogirl View Post
    Is water supposed to be able to run thru with the cleaning disk in?
    No its not. Your cleaning cycle was correct. The very early silicone disks had a small hole and let water through as per the video you saw. The hole was deleted years ago.
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  4. #1454
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    Oh cool, thanks! I watched 3 different videos from 3 different sources and read the booklet and all have the water running through!
    another question, this issue made me question the pressure on the machine. With the cleaning disc in, how much pressure should I get? I'm getting just on 8.

  5. #1455
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    8 is probably a touch low. Should be about 9bar.

  6. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    +1. If you cant get a decent shot with single wall then something is with your grinder (eg not fine enough) or beans aren't fresh enough (or less likely too fresh!). Once you work out the issue you won't have to resort to using the double wall baskets ever again.
    Thanks MrFreddofrog and prydey

    This morning, on a grind of 11 (out of the box and not with the mods that MrFreddofron linked to) it seems I have to tamp very firmly to get a decent coffee on the single wall. More firmly than I think my gf would be willing to put into. I am going to drop the grind to 10 and see if it makes the coffee making experience better. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by rahmeleon View Post
    Thanks MrFreddofrog and prydey

    This morning, on a grind of 11 (out of the box and not with the mods that MrFreddofron linked to) it seems I have to tamp very firmly to get a decent coffee on the single wall. More firmly than I think my gf would be willing to put into. I am going to drop the grind to 10 and see if it makes the coffee making experience better. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks again
    Just make sure your tamping pressure is consistent otherwise you have another variable in the equation. The commonly suggested tamping pressure is 15kg. Not exactly sure why that much but I suspect it's to make up for otherwise poor quality beans/grinder/technique etc.

  8. #1458
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    More important than the exact tamping pressure used is that the pressure be consistent one time to the next.


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  9. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh001 View Post
    My BES920 is now a bit over 3 years old and has recently developed an issue where the over pressure valve is not functioning. It used to operate at 9.5 bar, but now with some shots (or when back flushing) the pressure goes up to 11 bar and the pump cuts out. Obviously this is not good for the pump so I want to get this sorted ASAP. Can anybody here give me some tips? First thing is to source the parts. I found some info on adjusting the OPV on the BES900, which might be useful since the BES900 & 920 are pretty much identical. Any other info will be greatly appreciated
    Nic's Stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    Hmm, how old/how much use has it had? I don't think it's the group head but have a look at the head and PF and check for signs of wear, eg metal deforming, especially where the lugs contact.

    I have the same combo both approx 1yr old but only used a few tmes a week. I aim for 30ml in 30sec from a double shot single wall basked, 17-18 gm dose. With 1wk old beans (from roast date) grind setting is about 7. By the time they are about 4wks old the grinder is around 11. I don't use bean much older than that unless I've done a really dark roast in which case add a few weeks.

    I suspect your issues are related to beans getting old (beyond 4-6 wks), grinder wearing down or channelling. Channelling easiest to fix, load basket in thirds and tamp each time. You may not want to adopt this technique permanently but it will help eliminate one potential cause. If no luck buy fresh (1 or 2 wk old) beans. If no luck then try cleaning your grinder. Have you done the grinder adjustment? Instructions from Breville on how to make BCG820 grind finer
    Hi,

    My machine is just under 2 years old and I only use it one a day during the week, and probably 3 times a day on weekends. I haven't noticed any unusual wear on the PF, but will check tonight.

    Why only 30ml in 30 secs from a double shot? I thought it was meant to be around 60ml? See there's absolutely no way I could only grind 17-18grams. I thought you had to tighten the grind the more beans age, however you are saying your grind goes from 7 to 11?

    I don't regularity clean my grinder because I figure it's going to be used the following day and will just be dirty again. I haven't done the grinder adjustment yet, and to be honest, I don't think my grinder needs it. When I first purchased my grinder, I used to grind around the 10-12 level, now I have to grind around 5-6. I bought some fresh (4 days past roast date) beans on Saturday and have made some pretty good coffees out of it so far (approx. 6) however I'm dosing 22grams and only getting the absolute slightest imprint of the shower screen... any less in the basket and it goes sloppy. So yeah, seeing everyone post saying they dose 17/18/19 grams... I don't understand how that's possible, it certainly wouldn't work in dosing at those levels in my machine.

    If anyone lives local to Nundah in Brisbane, more than welcome to drop in and have a go yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Do you have a scale that weighs to the gram?
    Yes, and I weigh every single time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilza View Post
    Hi,

    My machine is just under 2 years old and I only use it one a day during the week, and probably 3 times a day on weekends. I haven't noticed any unusual wear on the PF, but will check tonight.

    Why only 30ml in 30 secs from a double shot? I thought it was meant to be around 60ml? See there's absolutely no way I could only grind 17-18grams. I thought you had to tighten the grind the more beans age, however you are saying your grind goes from 7 to 11?

    I don't regularity clean my grinder because I figure it's going to be used the following day and will just be dirty again. I haven't done the grinder adjustment yet, and to be honest, I don't think my grinder needs it. When I first purchased my grinder, I used to grind around the 10-12 level, now I have to grind around 5-6. I bought some fresh (4 days past roast date) beans on Saturday and have made some pretty good coffees out of it so far (approx. 6) however I'm dosing 22grams and only getting the absolute slightest imprint of the shower screen... any less in the basket and it goes sloppy. So yeah, seeing everyone post saying they dose 17/18/19 grams... I don't understand how that's possible, it certainly wouldn't work in dosing at those levels in my machine.

    If anyone lives local to Nundah in Brisbane, more than welcome to drop in and have a go yourself.
    Yes of course you are right, you do grind finer as bean age. I got the numbers mixed up. I start around 12 and end up around 10 over a few weeks.

    I've always done 30ml/30sec from double shot. No doubt I picked it up from CS somewhere and that's what all my friends do so I never questioned it. Actually I just wait till it blonds, hopefully it’s around 30s. Much earlier and it’s too bright/sour, much later and it turns bitter.

    I used to worry about the puck but now days I don’t really care much. Some days it is wetter than others. I’m sure there is a logical explanation but as long as it tastes good I’m fine. TBH I’d rather the puck not touch the screen anyway. Means less cleaning and less coffee grounds behind the screen

    22gm does sound like a lot but seeing as you are using the razor tool you must be getting the right level. Apparently there is a solenoid value that can cause the puck to stick to the screen through suction but I don’t know much/anything about it. Maybe your issue is related to it?

    Sorry couldn’t be more help.
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  13. #1463
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    Using the double basket it should be 60ml in 30sec. 30ml per cup when making two drinks.

  14. #1464
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    Really? I'll give it a go but that must taste pretty weak.

    Yesterday I got the grind wrong and after 30sec I only had around 15ml. Rather than risk going into the blonding stage I cut it. Anyway it tasted great. Lesson I learnt, whatever the volume, cut it just as it blonds. Better to have a small high quality espresso than a crappy 30ml one.

  15. #1465
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    Trying to adjust the brew ratio by estimating volume is a pretty slippery business (for me anyway). To the extent that standards are useful, I prefer to use the ratio of the mass of ground coffee to that of brewed coffee. 15g ground coffee = 30 g brewed coffee (which may be anywhere b/w 40-55mls). I tend to actually used 17g ground coffee to 30-32g brewed. I cut the shot when it blondes, but measure occasionally to calibrate my eye.

  16. #1466
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    30ml from a double is essentially a double ristretto isn't it?

  17. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Trying to adjust the brew ratio by estimating volume is a pretty slippery business (for me anyway). To the extent that standards are useful, I prefer to use the ratio of the mass of ground coffee to that of brewed coffee. 15g ground coffee = 30 g brewed coffee (which may be anywhere b/w 40-55mls). I tend to actually used 17g ground coffee to 30-32g brewed. I cut the shot when it blondes, but measure occasionally to calibrate my eye.
    I don't mess about weighing beans. I dose to the same level each time and know how much roughly 30ml is in all the cups I use, so I still watch the pour and as long as it's around the 30ml (no more) by the time it blondes I'm happy. I only drink milk coffee.

  18. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by prydey View Post
    I don't mess about weighing beans. I dose to the same level each time and know how much roughly 30ml is in all the cups I use, so I still watch the pour and as long as it's around the 30ml (no more) by the time it blondes I'm happy. I only drink milk coffee.
    I like consistency and repeatability, I weigh the beans for every shot, perhaps a bit OCD, however works for me and has now become a routine part of the process.

    Weighing is quick and easy with a cheap set of scales, pic below, probably adds about 10 seconds to pulling a shot.ZC14700-D-7-6.JPG

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    Great machines .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Trying to adjust the brew ratio by estimating volume is a pretty slippery business (for me anyway). To the extent that standards are useful, I prefer to use the ratio of the mass of ground coffee to that of brewed coffee. 15g ground coffee = 30 g brewed coffee (which may be anywhere b/w 40-55mls). I tend to actually used 17g ground coffee to 30-32g brewed. I cut the shot when it blondes, but measure occasionally to calibrate my eye.
    100%. For those trying to establish a base point and learn, the whole 30/60ml thing is very misleading. If the user is smart enough to weigh the coffee going in they are smart enough to weigh what comes out and will get far more comfortable with their brewing far quicker.

  21. #1471
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    Things tend to become monstrously confused when the discussion turns to brewing/extraction ratios.

    I can never quite tell whether that's because most people have absolutely no idea what the hell they're purporting to understand, or because each individual has their own questionable and kooky little ideas about what works best (or both).

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I cut the shot when it blondes, but measure occasionally to calibrate my eye.
    This seems to be the most common sense approach of any suggestions I've read so far. Measuring exact inputs and outputs and following standard ratios (be it by weight in grams, volume, slugs, megaparsecs, barn hubbles, smidgens, jiffies, or microfortnights) is all fine and dandy, but it won't necessarily do your palate any good if the shot's already overextracted.

    Now, if you're a sucker for blondes, that's a different story...

  22. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by prydey View Post
    30ml from a double is essentially a double ristretto isn't it?
    Yes, but 30ml does not equal 30g in the case of brewed coffee (including crema).

  23. #1473
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    I'm sure these metrics are extremely useful in their own right, but at the end of the day I don't think it matters whether the shot takes 30 seconds to extract, or weighs 30 grams - as long as it isn't pulled too early, or too late. As Shane said above:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    Much earlier and it’s too bright/sour, much later and it turns bitter.
    The problem with trying to find tune exact metrics is that no two individuals will be using the exact same beans, of the exact same post-roast age, with the exact same grind texture. It just doesn't happen.

    If anybody here is still worried that the shot was pulled in 29.834985734625 seconds instead of 30 - despite the fact that it tastes like liquid gold - then it's about time you checked yourself in to the quack.

    I can promise you this - cognitive therapy is not something you want to be associating with your espresso.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    Yes of course you are right, you do grind finer as bean age. I got the numbers mixed up. I start around 12 and end up around 10 over a few weeks.

    I've always done 30ml/30sec from double shot. No doubt I picked it up from CS somewhere and that's what all my friends do so I never questioned it. Actually I just wait till it blonds, hopefully it’s around 30s. Much earlier and it’s too bright/sour, much later and it turns bitter.

    I used to worry about the puck but now days I don’t really care much. Some days it is wetter than others. I’m sure there is a logical explanation but as long as it tastes good I’m fine. TBH I’d rather the puck not touch the screen anyway. Means less cleaning and less coffee grounds behind the screen

    22gm does sound like a lot but seeing as you are using the razor tool you must be getting the right level. Apparently there is a solenoid value that can cause the puck to stick to the screen through suction but I don’t know much/anything about it. Maybe your issue is related to it?

    Sorry couldn’t be more help.
    No I don't use the razor tool. I tried using it but it was trimming to much and underdosing. So I dose to 22-22.5 grams to get a good looking extraction, descent tasting coffee and a spent puck that looks as it should. It's the fact that everyone else here seems to dose well under that and I just don't understand how. I'm more than happy to take a photo of what my puck looks like when I dose to 19grams.

  25. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilza View Post
    No I don't use the razor tool. I tried using it but it was trimming to much and underdosing. So I dose to 22-22.5 grams to get a good looking extraction, descent tasting coffee and a spent puck that looks as it should. It's the fact that everyone else here seems to dose well under that and I just don't understand how. I'm more than happy to take a photo of what my puck looks like when I dose to 19grams.
    I have just purchased the same machine, and am getting a good shot with 14g in the single pf. When you guys are talking 19g in the double and 30ml for 30 seconds, is this for 2 cups? (ie 60ml in total)

  26. #1476
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    How about borrowing someone elses grinder to eliminate that as the cause (or loan your grinder to someone else)?

    The reason I suggest this is I once had similar issues and after a lot of effort we eventually worked out the grinder (bcg800) had some earthing issue resulting in static electricity doing strange things with the shot. I had the grinder replaced under warranty and problem solved. It is unlikely to be this but given there are no obvious answers you might have to start looking elsewhere.

    btw, how are you settling the basket? Do you tap on the side or on the bottom or not at all. Maybe channelling is an issue?

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    Hello all I'm a Newby.
    Just bought the Bes920 and wanted to know does the manual function stops automatically after a certain period of time when pouring coffee.
    I had ano issue with mine were it stopped in a few seconds. so I have been playing with it now just running water and it stops at around 28 to 29 seconds.
    is this normal????

    Nick

  28. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpies View Post
    ...does the manual function stops automatically ...
    No. You have to press it again to stop it.

  29. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    No. You have to press it again to stop it.
    Exactly

    Hence the reason it's called the "Manual" function

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    that's what I thought. so I must have an issue with mine. geez not even a week old and probs already.

  31. #1481
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    Once the manual button is pushed if not pushed again it will turn off automatically after a set, non adjustable, period of time. Somewhere around 45 seconds as I recall.


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  32. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Once the manual button is pushed if not pushed again it will turn off automatically after a set, non adjustable, period of time. Somewhere around 45 seconds as I recall.


    Java "Safety features" phile
    It's 90 seconds.
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    thanks for that. i tried again last night with a double basket and it kept going this time. I had to stop it at 70 seconds.
    should I just take it back and get it replaced?

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    Call the Breville help desk, they should be able to advise you of what is right an wrong. It might be that if there is no pressure it turns off earlier than when under pressure.

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    will do. thanks

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    Just unboxing my machine and have come back to refer to notes...got your message! Thanks heaps, MrFreddofrog

  37. #1487
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    Angry

    Hi all,

    Has anyone tested the standby power consumption of their BES920? I just did, and it's 20watts!

    I'm wondering of this is normal (surely it can't be) , or will I be making a call to Breville on Monday.

    Edit:

    Ok, my bad. The problem was caused by a power meter that wasn't compatible with such low wattages. I've since used a more accurate device and it's measuring 0.8 watts.
    Last edited by ash0011; 14th January 2017 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Have you replaced the group head seal? if not replacement may well solve your problem.

    Another tip, back flush after every session and don't leave the PF locked in place while the machine is cooling, coffee residue can cause the basket to stick to the seal, ya gotta have a clean machine.
    Thanks Yelta. Undid the screw to access the seal and discovered the black plastic disc behind the
    metal screen holding in the seal was broken. Have taken to Breville repair agent to fix.

  39. #1489
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    Coffee bros, this is my first post here. Please forgive me if its the wrong area.

    My 2yr old machine asked me to descale it today (it has been performing flawlessly). So i bought some Cafetto cleaner descaling satchets, read the manual and commenced the process. All was going well until the part where you start the 20 min heatup and soak cycle. My machine tripped the circuit breaker! That's never happened before, so I reset circuit breaker and tried restarting the descale. So i had to empty the boilers again (with descale fluid still in them), followed the procedure, and it tripped circuit breaker again.

    I dumped the descale solution, emptied the boilers, filled with normal water, and tried running normal water through her. Tripped circuit breakers again. This time i paid attention and noticed it was tripping them during the heating/pumping start up cycle. I attached a power meter to the cord and noticed she was drawing just over 9A at peak. Current draw gets lower as the water temp rises (as you'd expect). I had to reset the circuit breaker nearly 10 times to get it up to temperature before it would just sit there and stay on.

    When I started moving the machine around, I noticed some brown fluid coming out of the seams on the side (shouldn't be any water in that area). So i took machine outside and held it at an angle to drain any remaining fluid. I took the top and back lid off but didn't see anything untoward (except a little corrosion around the steam boiler).

    I suspect there is water leaking out of somewhere into the bottom of the machine, as a result of the descale) and causing the ELCB to trip it off.

    This is the first time i've tried to descale it. Has anyone experienced similar problems?

    With it being out of warranty, I guess there's little point in trying to get it repaired. Just thought I would post here on a wing and prayer for any additional advice.

  40. #1490
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    how far out of warranty is it? the 920 got 2yr warranty. if its not far out you could try contacting breville and seeing if they'll help you out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prydey View Post
    how far out of warranty is it? the 920 got 2yr warranty. if its not far out you could try contacting breville and seeing if they'll help you out.
    Thanks for the response mate. After recovering from my flat spin, I asked the Mrs to find the receipt (she's the organised one ;-) ). Turns out I bought the extended warranty! Happy days. Ill get the machine into the shop and report back with the problem.

    This experience has made me realise how fickle these machines are. One descale and it's dead. So im now saving toward the next step in my coffee evolution.
    Last edited by skiman; 29th January 2017 at 11:31 AM.
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  42. #1492
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    i had a poor run with my 900, so i also opted to pay an extra $100 for 4years more cover (6 years total). whether it is worth the paper its written on remains to be seen, but a trip to the repair man outside of warranty would cost at least $100 so i figured it was a reasonable price to pay for a bit of extra peace of mind.
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  43. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpete9 View Post
    Thanks, I'm aware of Nic's blog - very useful. The problem is I can't source a new OPV anywhere. It's looks I might have to ask Breville directly if they'll sell me one.

  44. #1494
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    Interesting. Let us all know how u go

  45. #1495
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    New here

    Hi everyone

    Well after more than 30 years loving coffee I've finally bought myself one of these beauties with a Breville smart grinder. Got the grinder from myer online and this from hardly normally all for under a grand.

    I love it!!!

    Thanks to Jim from Perth off the chainsaw forums for this.....I owe you..

    Few problems with the grinder jamming on very lightly roasted beens so that's going back when I stop buying beens and can afford a break but I might just buy another so I don't miss a day on the 920.

    I started out by weighing my grinds in the PF so I got it close but now just infuse for about 10 seconds and manually go till just before it blondes, typically around the 35 sec mark. This is working great!

    I'm doing double shots single wall basket and pretty fresh roasted beans.

    Not sure what I'm going to do with all my Vietnamese and preground stuff now. I've got about 10kg of it.
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  46. #1496
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    Hi all, first time poster here. I just got the BES920 from Myer for $999 (they had combo deals with the grinder for $1349 but also had the grinder on sale for $199 so for a few more clicks I saved myself $150).
    But the reason I'm posting is I can't really understand the water hardness strip. There are no colour picture diagrams or even a description of what to look for.
    There is a black and white diagram but this isn't really any help as all I see on my strip is a gradient from light green to a muddy green and the diagram shows clear black squares.

    See here:



    I found a video here from delonghi showing the strips going more of an orange colour (but still a gradient rather than a clear distinction).


    Does it matter what I set the water hardness to?
    I presume I can just set it to 1 or 0 as I didn't really see much change in my strip (and I left it in the water for longer than advised too just to be sure).

    [EDIT: Also, if anyone know how to resize picture thumbnails in these forums I'm all ears.]

  47. #1497
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    If you read the packet it tells you what the squares represent. Looking at your strip i would set it to 1.

  48. #1498
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    H guys, I apologise in advance if this has been discussed before. I have had the Breville dual boiler for probably 2-3 years now. I change the filter and run the clean cycle reasonably regularly. I also tend to use the same coffee, roasted at Braddon Roasters (Canberra), Columbian or Smith and Evans blend and ground at home with the matching Breville burr grinder. When I first got the machine I was very very happy with it and the quality of the shots. Lately I have noticed my wife and I are both making poor tasting shots more regularly which almost never happened? I think they are burnt. Do I need to get the machine serviced perhaps.? I still monitor the pressure and time of shots and to my eye that is still OK. I am a little dumbfounded.
    Andy

  49. #1499
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by andyD View Post
    H guys, I apologise in advance if this has been discussed before. I have had the Breville dual boiler for probably 2-3 years now. I change the filter and run the clean cycle reasonably regularly. I also tend to use the same coffee, roasted at Braddon Roasters (Canberra), Columbian or Smith and Evans blend and ground at home with the matching Breville burr grinder. When I first got the machine I was very very happy with it and the quality of the shots. Lately I have noticed my wife and I are both making poor tasting shots more regularly which almost never happened? I think they are burnt. Do I need to get the machine serviced perhaps.? I still monitor the pressure and time of shots and to my eye that is still OK. I am a little dumbfounded.
    Andy
    Have you descaled yet? I'd imagine after 2-3 years it might need it

  50. #1500
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    10
    Thanks Jaya. I thought that was what the little tablets were for that you use during the cleaning cycle? Is that not correct? I can get a packet of descaling stuff from the shop and see if that makes a difference. At the very least I should see if any gunk is brought out with the exercise.
    A

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