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Thread: Breville dual boiler 18g basket vs after market baskets

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    Breville dual boiler 18g basket vs after market baskets

    For those with Breville dual boiler machines, what results have you gotten using after market baskets compared to the Breville 18g basket?

    I recently saw the following statement by Phil McKnight from Breville and had a quick look at the photos here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcknightp View Post
    Just to let you know that the baskets we use in all our Dual Boiler configured machines, BES900, BES920 & the Oracle are all made to a quality that approaches that of VSTs. Hole roundness & consistant positioning is extremely controlled during production.
    It seems Breville put more consideration into these baskets than I initially thought but I'm itching to start experimenting with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingzing View Post
    For those with Breville dual boiler machines, what results have you gotten using after market baskets compared to the Breville 18g basket?

    I recently saw the following statement by Phil McKnight from Breville and had a quick look at the photos here.



    It seems Breville put more consideration into these baskets than I initially thought but I'm itching to start experimenting with others.
    Hi

    I have experimented extensively with EP precision double basket, 15 and 18g VST and I always come back to the stock double. These other baskets have been relegated to other machine or the spares box.

    Experiment with the pre infusion time and pressure.

    My best shots generally come from a medium roast, 17g fine grind, around 10 secs pre infusion at 3 to 3.5 bar, which usually equates to 68 - 69 on the % adjustment in the PI settings. Doing this will usually result in full saturation of the puck = at the end of PI there will be EVEN beading of coffee across the filter basket holes.

    The shot will run from 28 to 35sec in total depending on taste / beans ect. Using PI this way results in a more complete extraction while at the same time passing less water through the coffee = deliciousness
    gmeddy likes this.

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    I have been using a cma ? I think, ( from Disave ) triple basket for the last 6 months in my BDB, getting good strength extractions for two people.

    It makes it a lot easier when a No. of people need coffee. I have been dosing up to 26.8gms (depending upon the usual bean variables).

    I had to modify the Breville portafilter ears some time ago to prevent the group collar insert getting chewed. Breville had neglected to machine or properly cast the underside of the portafilter ears on their machines. Although with over a years warranty left on the machine, I decided to investigate and sort the problem as Breville weren't communicating with me on this issue. I now possess more spare collar inserts than I may need in future now.

    With reduced ear thickness, however perfectly matched to collar and delrin insert profile, I have had to put a wire shim between the basket and p/f body. This probably allows slightly better flow from the 3/basket. I also have a fitment that one can apply f/q. grease to the basket rim and ear undersides to allow engagement well past rt. angles and now way will the p/f disengage during extraction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    Hi

    I have experimented extensively with EP precision double basket, 15 and 18g VST and I always come back to the stock double. These other baskets have been relegated to other machine or the spares box.

    Experiment with the pre infusion time and pressure.

    My best shots generally come from a medium roast, 17g fine grind, around 10 secs pre infusion at 3 to 3.5 bar, which usually equates to 68 - 69 on the % adjustment in the PI settings. Doing this will usually result in full saturation of the puck = at the end of PI there will be EVEN beading of coffee across the filter basket holes.

    The shot will run from 28 to 35sec in total depending on taste / beans ect. Using PI this way results in a more complete extraction while at the same time passing less water through the coffee = deliciousness
    Thanks Steve, sounds like our methods are fairly similar. My standard blend is a medium roast too but I up-dose slightly with 18.5-19.0g and am happy with a 35g shot weight. What are you getting?

    One of the biggest selling points of this machine for me was the the preinfusion and I'm loving experimenting with longer times and keeping it at the lowest pressure (for now). Great to know that you're getting such good results with the stock basket. Makes me wonder whether I bother with others..... Can't wait for the naked PF to come out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingzing View Post
    Thanks Steve, sounds like our methods are fairly similar. My standard blend is a medium roast too but I up-dose slightly with 18.5-19.0g and am happy with a 35g shot weight. What are you getting?

    One of the biggest selling points of this machine for me was the the preinfusion and I'm loving experimenting with longer times and keeping it at the lowest pressure (for now). Great to know that you're getting such good results with the stock basket. Makes me wonder whether I bother with others..... Can't wait for the naked PF to come out.
    I have not weighed my shots for some time. When I did I was dosing similar to you 18 to 19g and only using the lower PI pressure and found that I enjoyed around the 55% brew ratio the most, some coffees I really enjoyed in the 65 to 70% range. I still dose some coffees around 18 - 18.5g.

    Yeah definitely get a naked PF when you can, its pretty much all I ever use and makes life a lot easier when messing with different PI times and pressure.

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    I found I was getting doughnut extractions with the stock baskets and 18-19g and the taste was not right. I dropped it down to around 16g and it was much better. Just because the holes are perfectly round doesnt make it a good basket.

    The depth of the walls seems way to large for the holes at the bottom. I would recommend getting another basket that is designed correctly so no sloppy pucks.

    I think a lot of new buyers are way overdosing and getting rough shots, particularly if they use the razor tool which tells you to put around 21g in!

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    Just got a 920 this week and very impressed with the stock basket, been using 19gms to good effect. Picking up a naked PF next week and VST 20gm should arrive too. Very keen to observe comparison. When I previously owned a Duetto twin PID I was convinced my shots were better with the 18gm VST vs Synesso but that was just my opinion.

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    The baskets that come with the newer 920's are more similar to VST's with straighter sides than the original ones. I use a naked PF and 20g VST basket and am very happy with the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingzing View Post
    The baskets that come with the newer 920's are more similar to VST's with straighter sides than the original ones. I use a naked PF and 20g VST basket and am very happy with the results.
    You loading 20gms or 21gms? Cheers.

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    Also using a Breville 920xl...been enjoying using the VST 18 g and triple baskets via WDT and a naked PF. I like these baskets a lot because I have more latitude to grind finer and get to fine-tune my extractions in ways I cannot with the the stock basket--which I also like very much. (I think the hole may be larger in the VST baskets.) Been loading 21-22 g in the triple and pulling ~36-42 g of coffee. Been also playing with temperature--adjusted from 201 F ->204 F. For my dark roast beans, I like the higher temperature pulls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redzone121 View Post
    You loading 20gms or 21gms? Cheers.
    20.5 grams

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingzing View Post
    20.5 grams
    Thats what I love about this forum. At least I am not alone

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    Sorry for bumping an old thread.

    I am having an issue with my single wall double basket only. All others, including the double wall double basket, pull shots well. But the single wall double doesn't seal well in the group head and water spurts out.

    I'd originally thought it was an issue with the collar, but the service centre is miles away and I didn't get to it during the warranty period. Now I'm wondering if there is a small defect (I definitely can't see it) and if a replacement basket might be enough to do the trick?

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    See the posts referenced in this message:

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post621177

    You might want to have a look with a torch at the shape of the plastic collar insert in the group head. Leaks around the portafilter are usually caused by a deformed collar. This is a replaceable part - a grand total of about $12 dollars for the part and half a billion screws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inorog View Post
    See the posts referenced in this message:

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post621177

    You might want to have a look with a torch at the shape of the plastic collar insert in the group head. Leaks around the portafilter are usually caused by a deformed collar. This is a replaceable part - a grand total of about $12 dollars for the part and half a billion screws.
    That's what I originally assumed..but it only affects this particular basket.. all of the others perform as expected.

    But, that said, I do suspect the collar is deformed. Is it a DIY job?

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    Sorry, also just saw your linked post had a guide to DIY.

    It seems like it is impossible to order the correct collar part these days, and Breville will have to replace the group head.

    That said, perhaps I am still within the warranty period.. I assumed 12 months, but it seems to be 2 years. I will have to get it booked in and hopefully the work will involve a brand new group head.

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    Have a look at the ifixit link and see for yourself. It has all the steps documented with text and pictures.

    For me, it's not rocket science - it's espresso-machine mechanics, however - some people do not feel comfortable with taking electrical things apart, so I can't tell you whether you're going to find this a DIY job or not.

    Before you take it apart (if you do decide to do it) assess that the collar is indeed compressed - it may well be that the silicon grouphead seal needs replacing instead.

    Aside to visual inspection - you should be able to feel with your finger: the collar is normally a "straight, vertical edge" all around. If it feels it changes to a "bulgy lip" in one section - that's the compressed section.

    EDIT: Warranty Job it is then

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    Is yours a BES900 or 920?

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    It's a 920.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niko123456 View Post
    It's a 920.
    It's a long way to ship, but here you go for the -920 brew group collar: https://www.ereplacementparts.com/co...p-1810640.html

    -Peter

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    Then they don't need to "upgrade" the group head for you.

    @Peter -> I wonder how long until someone tries a 3D printed version of that

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    Along those lines, what I would really love is for someone to write an open source controller for the BDB. It already has a full suite of sensors, and the ability to control vibe pump output (which is how you can program your pre infusion pressure. Well if we had access to the control code, we could build and store specific pressure profiles to use as we see fit, for example. There are a lot of start people out there. Some of them like espresso. If we could only turn one loose on the BDB...

    -Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by inorog View Post
    Then they don't need to "upgrade" the group head for you.

    @Peter -> I wonder how long until someone tries a 3D printed version of that
    Hi mate, apparently this is the part for the upgraded group head, not the original.


    I wish I had a 3d printer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by inorog View Post
    Then they don't need to "upgrade" the group head for you.

    @Peter -> I wonder how long until someone tries a 3D printed version of that

    It's been done - in fact, there are plans for it too. I just don't have a 3d priner... Gonna see if I can find a print-as-a-service in Au and see if I can get something done.

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    920 canít buy just the insert, comes as a kit with collar etc.

    Cheers

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    Well - that's just sad. You replace the entire head because the plastic collar took one for the team! What a waste!

    I still can't believe that though. Mainly because I had my BES900 group head upgraded to the 920 (PF has the square lugs now) as part of the last major service, and I am still able to purchase the plastic collars and replace them myself. I've replaced one since.

    Or I could be wrong, and that is not the BES920 group head...

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