Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 144
Like Tree159Likes

Thread: Best machine under $1200

  1. #51
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula VIC
    Posts
    1,251
    Not quite sure just how valid Gumtree economics might be
    Dimal, chokkidog and TC like this.

  2. #52
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    127
    I didn't see that question in the recent census........

    I can't see how a Silvia or Lelit is considered a specialist machine compared with a Breville? Because they aren't designed to be binned a few years after purchase? They all have an on switch, a brew button and a steam knob. To operate either machine doesn't require 'a high degree of underlying knowledge'. To me, the high(er) degree of underlying knowledge helps with all the other stuff (grind, dose, tamp etc).

    I think its simply that they aren't sold or advertised to the masses like the appliance brands. I've never seen a Silvia or Lelit for sale in a bricks and mortar shop. Right or wrong, most people just expect to be able to walk into David Jones and buy a good quality machine....

    Case in point, I went through 2 x appliance machines in 3 years. Both ended up in landfill. I then purchased new Silvia (after deciding to research other options online) for ~$750, owned it without issue for 8 or 9 years and sold it to a CS member for more than half the purchase cost. So I'd say resale would be more important to more people if they knew they had other options when buying the appliance machine.

    Back to the point of the thread - no way would I recommend an appliance machine knowing what other options are out there in the same price bracket.
    kbc likes this.

  3. #53
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Quote Originally Posted by skidquinn View Post
    I didn't see that question in the recent census........

    I can't see how a Silvia or Lelit is considered a specialist machine compared with a Breville? Because they aren't designed to be binned a few years after purchase? They all have an on switch, a brew button and a steam knob. To operate either machine doesn't require 'a high degree of underlying knowledge'. To me, the high(er) degree of underlying knowledge helps with all the other stuff (grind, dose, tamp etc).

    I think its simply that they aren't sold or advertised to the masses like the appliance brands. I've never seen a Silvia or Lelit for sale in a bricks and mortar shop. Right or wrong, most people just expect to be able to walk into David Jones and buy a good quality machine....

    Case in point, I went through 2 x appliance machines in 3 years. Both ended up in landfill. I then purchased new Silvia (after deciding to research other options online) for ~$750, owned it without issue for 8 or 9 years and sold it to a CS member for more than half the purchase cost. So I'd say resale would be more important to more people if they knew they had other options when buying the appliance machine.

    Back to the point of the thread - no way would I recommend an appliance machine knowing what other options are out there in the same price bracket.
    Hi Quinn,

    There is a simple reason that the Silvia et al don't make it to the appliance sellers: margin.

    The big boys expect and receive massive markups so that they can discount by 25% or more to give buyers an apparent bargain. The Silvia just doesn't carry those margins and the only model which delivers sufficient margin to cover the risk of importing, stocking, shipping and selling them is importer reseller. Both Jetblack and Coffee-a-Roma do that and each is a specialist bricks and mortar shop in addition to an online presence. Fact (as I once heard it) is a Breville dual boiler lands at about $300. Even if it sells for a grand, you have winners. There is enough in a Silvia/Lelit et al to just allow sufficient margin for one, not many. Resale reflects a machine of far higher nett value. We all also know they last far longer with appropriate care.

    Your average punter generally doesn't have the skills to use a single boiler to its potential or to maintain it safely. They know nothing about boiler priming and are not suitable candidates for one without significant training. A $20/hr shop assistant neither knows nor cares how to use or maintain one and couldn't give a toss re training either. Hell, many (most?) can't even use a pod machine.

    I have had 3 potentials arrive for single boiler demos on our Lelit in the last few weeks. I refused a sale to one (an office ) and sent the other two (milk drinking families with multiple users who entertain) away to reflect on whether their choice was appropriate. I suggested all go and buy a Breville dual boiler and grinder with their $1k budgets.

    My clients are my marketing team and I'd sooner lose a sale than sell the wrong kit to what would ultimately be an unhappy camper.

    Chris
    Last edited by TC; 2nd September 2016 at 06:58 PM. Reason: tpyo

  4. #54
    Guest
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    461
    Quote Originally Posted by skidquinn View Post
    Case in point, I went through 2 x appliance machines in 3 years.
    If that was a Breville dual boiler, it has 2 yr warranty. Even if it didn't, consumer protection would be on your side as it would be a reasonable expectation a $1000 plus coffee machine should last more that 2-3 years in a home environment.

  5. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    If that was a Breville dual boiler, it has 2 yr warranty. Even if it didn't, consumer protection would be on your side as it would be a reasonable expectation a $1000 plus coffee machine should last more that 2-3 years in a home environment.
    The Australian Consumer Law is there but it is a soft law.

    Most companies will make you fight for that. IMHO forget it. You either have a warranty or you don't. I know some people have succeeded after three weeks of calls back and forth and hours spent. Not worth it. As you say though if Breville has it then that is good. Some appliances that are complex, like coffee machines, and expensive to fix, like coffee machines, you should just take out the extended warranty with the shop. I know one of the salesman at HN for years and he finds it sad that people depend on this Australian Consumer Law and make life really tough for themselves trying to get companies to honour it. If you buy the extended warranty, it is easy.
    LeroyC likes this.

  6. #56
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    127
    Chris, yep that makes perfect sense. And goes a long way to explain why these appliance machines are so prominent in households. For those of us not in Sydney or Melbourne, those two specialist importers and sellers are simply an online presence. Can see why not many people have even heard of a Rancilio let alone have one on their bench.

    I'm not convinced that if an average punter wants to put in the effort with a breville et al, that they couldn't manage a single boiler.

    I think our overall move to a more disposable way of life irks me as well.
    LeroyC likes this.

  7. #57
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    The Australian Consumer Law is there but it is a soft law.

    Most companies will make you fight for that. IMHO forget it. You either have a warranty or you don't. I know some people have succeeded after three weeks of calls back and forth and hours spent. Not worth it. As you say though if Breville has it then that is good. Some appliances that are complex, like coffee machines, and expensive to fix, like coffee machines, you should just take out the extended warranty with the shop. I know one of the salesman at HN for years and he finds it sad that people depend on this Australian Consumer Law and make life really tough for themselves trying to get companies to honour it. If you buy the extended warranty, it is easy.
    Agreed - FWIW neither was a BDB, but one was a breville. One had a 1 yr warranty and the other a 2 yr warranty. They both broke within months of the warranty period ending. A big reason I started reading about what else was around.
    LeroyC likes this.

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post

    A $20/hr shop assistant neither knows nor cares how to use or maintain one and couldn't give a toss re training either. Hell, many (most?) can't even use a pod machine.
    I rent part of my place to tourists. Comments on the pod machine I have in there have been:

    1. It doesn't work (it does)
    2. The coffee is terrible (they extract 250 mL from the pod)
    3. It leaks (drip tray full)

    The Robert Timms coffee bags I leave are far more popular.
    Dimal, Magic_Matt and LeroyC like this.

  9. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bathurst
    Posts
    925
    Took me a few months to sell one of my Silvia's. I had several interested parties but once i determined their usage, it was inappropriate.
    Eventually found a buyer who would be happy and who the machine suited well. He researched and read pretty much all that this thread is talking about and realised he wanted the Silvia.

    In the same time as I was waiting to sell the Silvia, I probably sold 5-10 Breville/Sunbeam machines.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 3rd September 2016 at 05:25 AM. Reason: Commercial Content Removed
    LeroyC likes this.

  10. #60
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1

    Question Lelit PLo42TEMD vs PL041TEMD

    Hi CS community,
    I'm also a first timer, altho' I too have been reading CS blogs for months.

    Like jymorgan, I'm looking at a Lelit PL042TEMD for an "all-in-one" solution or a Lelit PL041TEMD. My question is simple. How adequate is the grinder on the Lelit PL042TEMD, or should I buy the Lelit PL041TEMD with, say a Macap M2M grinder? The price difference between these choices is about $50 at the moment. ($1350-$1400) My aim is 2-3 lattes in the morning & again at lunchtime, +/- one in the pm.

    Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks.
    dryk

  11. #61
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Quote Originally Posted by dryk View Post
    Hi CS community,
    I'm also a first timer, altho' I too have been reading CS blogs for months.

    Like jymorgan, I'm looking at a Lelit PL042TEMD for an "all-in-one" solution or a Lelit PL041TEMD. My question is simple. How adequate is the grinder on the Lelit PL042TEMD, or should I buy the Lelit PL041TEMD with, say a Macap M2M grinder? The price difference between these choices is about $50 at the moment. ($1350-$1400) My aim is 2-3 lattes in the morning & again at lunchtime, +/- one in the pm.

    Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks.
    dryk
    Welcome dryk,

    I may have a solution for you!

    The mantra (as always) is seperate your grinder from your machine if at all possible. Coffee is not meant to be kept near heat and you also get insurance. If grinder or machine require service, you still have a means of producing your daily...

    Cheers

    Chris
    chokkidog likes this.

  12. #62
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    5
    Hi everyone, thanks for all the suggestions and comments (both on-topic and not).

    I thought i would just provide a quick update as to what i have purchased.

    I toyed with many different options and combos, including built-in grinders, external grinders, etc. I simply couldn't pass up on a Breville dynamic due that i found for $615 that was a ex-display unit in the Breville seconds store.

    Given that I'm not convinced that my wife will embrace the move from pod coffee to manual coffee, i figured this was a good starting point with minimal outlay and when/if she loves it, i can then look at purchasing a better Italian machine in a year or so down the track.

    If i didn't come across this machine, i think i would have opted for a Lelit combi based on various suggestions/reviews.

    Now that i have a machine, i need to buy accessories, so.....what's your number 1 coffee machine accessory that you cant live without?
    Dimal and LeroyC like this.

  13. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    164
    Dosing funnel: dose.jpg
    acid_rider likes this.

  14. #64
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,796
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I like that. I'll be chasing these down. Where did you buy it?
    Probably from Chris at Talk Coffee...

    Mal.
    kbc likes this.

  15. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    That's a an easy one - a quality tamper.
    Congrats on taking a step up from Pods. My own fascination with coffee started with a Sunbeam, so you might be standing on the edge of the same slippery slope
    Tampers are nice objects. I got a Reg Barber Copper base with a Rosewood handle. They last a lifetime. I chose copper as it is the heaviest of all the metals used. The only issue is you need to clean it frequently. 11 years old now.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #66
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,030
    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreddofrog View Post
    3 million households have coffee machines
    In 2011 the average household in Australia ( I presume we're talking Oz here?), was 2.6 persons.

    Our current population is a bit over 23 million.

    That gives more than 8,846,000 households and you're saying that 3,000,000 of them have coffee machines?

    That's more than 1 in 3 households having a 'coffee machine'.

    I have seen the article in the Telegraph ( No Cookies | Daily Telegraph ) which, by the way, doesn't quote it's source for this data
    but does attribute the bulk of domestic machine ownership to Pod so-called 'machines'.

    It also quotes data from Illy which seems to contradict this other claim.

    Rubbery figures indeed when talking to members of a coffee forum but I guess,

    in the end, it all depends on what your definition of a coffee machine is.....
    Last edited by chokkidog; 6th September 2016 at 10:25 AM. Reason: spell check
    Dimal likes this.

  17. #67
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I like that. I'll be chasing these down. Where did you buy it?
    Seriously? Have you not heard of Orphan Espresso Paul?
    Logga likes this.

  18. #68
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Napier, New Zealand
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Seriously? Have you not heard of Orphan Espresso Paul?
    My thoughts exactly. Has he been living under a rock or something
    LeroyC likes this.

  19. #69
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    2
    If that's the Breville seconds store in Smith St Fitzroy they were very honourable: I went in enquiring about a dynamic duo and they said they had one but it was on hold for a customer.....ended up with a Barista Express also for a very good price ($330)

  20. #70
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Yes- the OE funnels sell steadily. A couple of hundred of them have gone to Aussie homes via us.
    kbc likes this.

  21. #71
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    That's funny. My first thought was "do you think I have been living under a rock?"
    I sell LIDO grinders so of course I have heard of OE. I just haven't seen that funnel before, and I want one!
    Cheers - Paul

  22. #72
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Can I have #201 please Chris?
    Sure Paul,

    I think that CS'ers would deem that you have completed #101 now

    FWIW, I still prefer the Coffee Catcha- but it's over 2 x price.

    Chris
    kbc likes this.

  23. #73
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,579
    Quote Originally Posted by jymorgan View Post

    Now that i have a machine, i need to buy accessories, so.....what's your number 1 coffee machine accessory that you cant live without?
    Coffee roaster
    Dimal, chokkidog and nickR like this.

  24. #74
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Coffee roaster
    Sorted...Problem is which one to use?
    • Behmor
    • Aillio
    • Proaster Sample roaster
    • Has Garanti

  25. #75
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,080
    Has Garanti of course! Just requires a few other accessories of it's own, like a building, and gas supply etc. easy!

    If only I could have a Has Garanti..
    Dimal likes this.

  26. #76
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Sorted...Problem is which one to use?
    • Behmor
    • Aillio
    • Proaster Sample roaster
    • Has Garanti
    Popcorn machine, cheap and easy.

    And then when hooked, simply work your way down the list..

  27. #77
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,030
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Sorted...Problem is which one to use?
    • Behmor
    • Aillio
    • Proaster Sample roaster
    • Has Garanti
    Quote Originally Posted by l0u0k0e View Post
    Popcorn machine, cheap and easy.

    And then when hooked, simply work your way down the list..
    When the above list of roasters is already lined up in your shed a popper seems a rather curious choice! ;-D
    TC likes this.

  28. #78
    ST
    ST is offline
    Member ST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Murray Bridge
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    My own fascination with coffee started with a Sunbeam, so you might be standing on the edge of the same slippery slope
    That was my starting point too. Was intending to upgrade when the SB broke but here I am still waiting 6 years later :P

  29. #79
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    Quote Originally Posted by ST View Post
    That was my starting point too. Was intending to upgrade when the SB broke but here I am still waiting 6 years later :P
    I know someone who knows someone who can make it have a bad accident...

  30. #80
    Member Tassie_Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dilston, Northern Tasmania, in the Tamar Valley
    Posts
    32
    Mmmm. Interesting thread.

    However, in the light of my experience (ongoing) with our $1500+ Breville BES900, that looks as if its life is only 3 years due to planned obsolescence (parts no longer available), I think paying 4 figure sums for a coffee machine is a waste of dollars. Some months ago our BES900 was supposed to be fixed so I paid the over $300 repair cost only to find it did not work at all so back it went and has remained unrepaired. There is discussion on all this in the other thread so I'll say no more on that topic here.

    As posted before, I gave up waiting for the repair and purchased a Dehlonghi EC680 for about the same cost of the BES900 "repair".

    Yes, there is a coffee making ritual associated with this machine but it is really no different to that with the Breville (said he, trying to remember that experience in the long ago past) and the coffee using freshly ground from the Breville grinder (agree it is essential).

    So I say, forget about resale value, and the important corollary to that is NEVER buy a used one as they all have a limited shelf life with heat, water and associated seals etc involved. OK, some brands might last longer than our Breville BES900, but I'm sceptical that ANY machine over $500 is a good buy. I suspect there is a strong placebo effect here in that the coffee appears to taste better from a more expensive machine. I wonder if any double blind tests have been done on this!

    Apologies if I'm stirring the pot and being cynical but this site is well named Coffee Snobs because I do feel there is a lot of snobbishness about coffee machines, just as there is about many consumer products.

    That said, if a person is happy with their expensive or inexpensive coffee maker then end of story. We all have different tastes and aspirations and that is a good thing. It would be a very boring world if we all thought the same way and agreed on everything!!
    Dimal likes this.

  31. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    I bought a Bezzera BZ40P in 2005 for $800. It was made in 1996. I did some work on it initially and spent maybe $80. I have spend since then practically nothing except for a few seals. I recently replaced it with a Wega Mini Nova Classic but I had to put in $210 rotary pump before sale. I will likely get $600 for it. It will still go for another 20 years. The machine still looks new and is for sale if you are in Perth!

    My Rocky was bought at the same time for $450. I haven't spent a bean on it and it is still going strong. I will probably get $250 for it.

    Both these machines will still be running on someone's bench in 10 maybe 20 years time.

    My total spend was $880 $450 + $100 + $210 less sale price $600 + $250.

    It cost me therefore $790 for 11 years of ownership. In that time I had some of the finest machines you can buy which looked great on my bench and did some amazing coffee.

    You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?
    Dimal and LeroyC like this.

  32. #82
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    I bought a Bezzera BZ40P in 2005 for $800. It was made in 1996. I did some work on it initially and spent maybe $80. I have spend since then practically nothing except for a few seals. I recently replaced it with a Wega Mini Nova Classic but I had to put in $210 rotary pump before sale. I will likely get $600 for it. It will still go for another 20 years. The machine still looks new and is for sale if you are in Perth!

    My Rocky was bought at the same time for $450. I haven't spent a bean on it and it is still going strong. I will probably get $250 for it.

    Both these machines will still be running on someone's bench in 10 maybe 20 years time.

    My total spend was $880 $450 + $100 + $210 less sale price $600 + $250.

    It cost me therefore $790 for 11 years of ownership. In that time I had some of the finest machines you can buy which looked great on my bench and did some amazing coffee.

    You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?
    Spot on. I've had similar experiences.

  33. #83
    Member Tassie_Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dilston, Northern Tasmania, in the Tamar Valley
    Posts
    32

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?
    I had a laugh, nothing personal, but I do think SOME people are, but maybe not many who post here because, like you, most are more knowledgeable.

    But your post does make me think I should start pulling these things apart myself. I just replaced the battery in our iPhone so am conscious of saving dollars to do repairs myself (Apple wanted over $200 to do the battery replacement).

    However not everyone is as skillful as you obviously are and my basic point still holds. Expense does not always correlate with quality and there are good functional coffee makers out there for under $500 and our Dehlonghi EC680, so far, appears to be one of them. But of course my opinion could be different in 3 years time.

  34. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    ...
    there are good functional coffee makers out there for under $500 and our Dehlonghi EC680, so far, appears to be one of them. But of course my opinion could be different in 3 years time.
    Depends heavily on your use case I'd say. I'm guessing it would struggle in higher volume situations (or even banging out two double-shot lattés quickly) but if that's not a requirement and you're happy with the output that's great.

  35. #85
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,579
    I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

    The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.
    Dimal likes this.

  36. #86
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,794
    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

    The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.
    Very similar experience Trentski.

    Bought a Bezzera machine in Oct 2009, paid $2850 for it.

    Recently had a vac valve replaced and general health check, total cost $90 42.

    Other than this have only replaced group head seals every 12 months or so, a couple of shower screens and descaling chemicals every six months.

    The machine runs as well as the day I bought it.
    Dimal, Magic_Matt and trentski like this.

  37. #87
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    22

    Best machine under $1200

    Same here. Rancilia Silvia purchased in 2005. Not a thing went wrong with it and only upgraded a couple of weeks ago because I saw the Lelit Mara and HAD TO HAVE IT !!! I've kept the Rocky grinder purchased at the same time.

    The Silvia would be good for another 10 years I reckon.

  38. #88
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,794
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratulin View Post
    Same here. Rancilia Silvia purchased in 2005. Not a thing went wrong with it and only upgraded a couple of weeks ago because I saw the Lelit Mara and HAD TO HAVE IT !!! I've kept the Rocky grinder purchased at the same time.

    The Silvia would be good for another 10 years I reckon.
    Silvia's certainly were a very reliable little machine, I owned one for 9 trouble free years.

  39. #89
    Member Tassie_Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Dilston, Northern Tasmania, in the Tamar Valley
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

    The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.
    That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

    Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.

  40. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    The company that makes the product is important. Breville and Sunbeam aren't committed to 20 year plus lifespans for products and having parts available for decades, they simply don't think that way.

    The Italian companies that produce the commercial and prosumer machines do have an anticipated lifespan of decades for their products. They also generally keep the products very simple and robust so that they're made to last. Finally they're mostly hand made which makes them expensive but also rebuildable. The machines are made to be stripped and reassembled using human hands.

    Machines like the Silvia are incredibly simple single boiler machines. It is dead easy to replace any part in them without any particular expertise.

    You will notice also that stainless steel while providing bling also lasts incredibly well even with daily coffee acids and oils on them.

    I look at the consumer coffee machines in the shops and I see nice machines but mass produced, not made to be rebuilt and using materials that are really not made to go the distance. They are also sometimes quite complex. Good luck if they go wrong out of warranty. You have some work to do, first to get the parts and the second to get into the machine and fix it.

    I personally like an HX machine with a single boiler. Physical design is used to stabilize temperatures and do the work rather than fancy electronics prone to gong wrong. Espresso is simple and I think machines should be as simple as possible also. The fewer parts, the less electronics (preferably NONE), the better.

  41. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

    Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.
    People buy art to hang on a wall and look at. I like art that can make coffee.
    artman and gonzo89 like this.

  42. #92
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

    Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.
    I'm probably a good person to reply to some of your queries as I've used a wide variety of machines. Machines I've owned:

    - Gaggia Classic
    - Sunbeam EM4820
    - Sunbeam EM5600
    - Faema Due D92/A1
    - Brugnetti Simona Top DE
    - Bialetti Il Caffe

    Machines I've used but not owned:

    - Rocket Giotto Evo V3
    - La Cimbali Junior

    I've been able to make very good coffee with all but one of these machines. The Sunbeam EM5600 has some nice user friendly features, but just didn't produce decent coffee no matter what I tried. I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say that the more expensive the machine, the better the coffee and the nicer it was to use. There's some caveats in there as obviously not every machine suits every situation, and there's a learning curve with all of them. Little things for example like steaming milk in about 10-15sec on the Rocket as opposed to 30-40sec on my Brugnetti, or closer to 5sec on the Faema. So it comes down to horses for courses and if you're happy with you Delonghi then stick with it. But if your needs ever changed then it might not be suitable in the future.
    The other thing I'd say is - DO NOT attempt to service/repair your Breville. They are not made to be opened and serviced by anyone other than trained people. They are hard to pull apart and are full of fragile plastic and electronic components that aren't easily worked on.
    Cheers.

  43. #93
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine?.
    Your $300 machine will most likely be single thermoblock. If you are lucky single boiler.
    Mine is an hx with an e61 grouphead. This makes it incredibly temp stable and the inbuilt preinfusion with the e61 group makes it very forgiving of variations in grind and tamp. 58mm group for lots of coffee in the basket.
    The hx means I can steam at the same time I pull shots. I can start the shot, start steaming the milk, walk away and come back 20 seconds later to switch everything off.
    Then I can go again straight away, no waiting and no drop in quality.
    No temp surfing, no waiting for thermoblock to heat up before I can steam, dry steam not wet steam. No switching boiler temps to get steam. Lever and knobs to start shot and control steam gives great tactile feedback. Easy to clean and backflush. Large water reservoir and drip tray.

    You can make good even great coffee with a $300 machine. But, you have to work for it and results may vary. The $3000 machine makes it easy and consistently good even consistently great coffee.
    Dimal, chokkidog, TC and 2 others like this.

  44. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    155

    Red face

    A slight rant.

    As the owner of Rancilio Sylvia since early 2010 (V3?) I don't understand why Rancilio has not made a new model Sylvia with a PID by now, in 2016?
    The latest Sylvia (2016 V5?) is just the same as V4 with a couple of near useless new features, it seems.

    Silvia would sell for under AUS$1000 with a PID provided by the factory, with warranty, and most likely be the best machine under $1200 in that form.
    It has advantage of using standard size E61 parts with 58 mm filters and tampers unlike non-standard portafilter size machines like Lelit (I don't get it why Lelit does this but this is another story).

    I temperature surf my Sylvia (with help of $20 thermometer) to get a PID-like result.
    It works OK but is a mild pain in the butt.
    Yes, I could buy a PID and have it installed by someone for a price but I want one designed and integrated by Rancilio themselves because it is more likely to last years and years.

    Ok, my rant is over! 8^)
    coffeewombat likes this.

  45. #95
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,080
    What's Rancilio's loss is Lelit's gain I'm afraid acid_rider.
    Dimal and kbc like this.

  46. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    It is very Italian to design something simple and to keep it that way. I like that.

  47. #97
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,794
    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

    Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.
    Evening Tassie_Devil,

    Better quality machines certainly are a joy to use compared to less expensive appliances, and, for the most part producing quality espresso becomes less of a challenge, of course whether or not the extra dollars are justified is pretty much dependent on the taste buds and outlook of the individual.

    Bear in mind that the coffee thing is very much an all consuming hobby to many of us, and, like all hobbies people can become quite obsessive and spend ridiculous amounts of cash in their never ending quest for perfection, and of course, like nirvana an unattainable goal, nonetheless the quest must continue.

    Of course we cant forget the skill or lack of, of the operator, a good home barista can produce decent espresso on most machines, whilst those lacking in skills using quality fresh beans will produce dish water on the most sophisticated equipment.

    As others have commented, good espresso can be produced on cheaper machines.
    Dimal, LeroyC and magnafunk like this.

  48. #98
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by acid_rider View Post
    A slight rant.

    As the owner of Rancilio Sylvia since early 2010 (V3?) I don't understand why Rancilio has not made a new model Sylvia with a PID by now, in 2016?
    The latest Sylvia (2016 V5?) is just the same as V4 with a couple of near useless new features, it seems.

    Silvia would sell for under AUS$1000 with a PID provided by the factory, with warranty, and most likely be the best machine under $1200 in that form.
    It has advantage of using standard size E61 parts with 58 mm filters and tampers unlike non-standard portafilter size machines like Lelit (I don't get it why Lelit does this but this is another story).

    I temperature surf my Sylvia (with help of $20 thermometer) to get a PID-like result.
    It works OK but is a mild pain in the butt.
    Yes, I could buy a PID and have it installed by someone for a price but I want one designed and integrated by Rancilio themselves because it is more likely to last years and years.

    Ok, my rant is over! 8^)
    Haha I agree with this one 100%.

  49. #99
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,805
    Ooh, and I forgot about the La Pavoni Cappuccino I modified a couple of years ago. Another handy little machine, but like all the other the other budget machines it was slower to use and clean etc.
    I've just picked up my Brugnetti on Thursday after it being away for 3 weeks. Man it is a joy to use and is a real luxury after using my Bialetti and Gaggia Classic for that time.

  50. #100
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,038
    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Ooh, and I forgot about the La Pavoni Cappuccino I modified a couple of years ago. Another handy little machine, but like all the other the other budget machines it was slower to use and clean etc.
    I've just picked up my Brugnetti on Thursday after it being away for 3 weeks. Man it is a joy to use and is a real luxury after using my Bialetti and Gaggia Classic for that time.
    Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

    The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •