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Thread: Best machine under $1200

  1. #101
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

    The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.
    Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
    Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
    Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.
    What are you planning on getting next?

  3. #103
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    What are you planning on getting next?
    I bought this to do up-

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  4. #104
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=LeroyC;589589]I bought this to do up-

    /QUOTE]

    Way to go, good luck with the do up.
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  5. #105
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    Here, Here! i think asking what the best machine is for the coin will produce similar results to going to bathurst and asking what is better holden or ford.......which would be neither I had a laugh

    It really comes down to personal preference, i love my machine but the aussie dollar is poor against the other currencies and you will have an impossible time finding one so i wouldn't recommend it, but im biased because i wanted a similar machine with no pump and with minimal parts so it wouldnt (touch wood) break. I looked at both the silvia and really like the look of the lelits, but it went against what i wanted. Not a fan of sunbeam or breville, but i have heard some pretty good things from people who do have them.

    i did make the mistake of rushing out and buying a grinder. Although the breville smart grinder was on special and i got it cheaper again because i got a kenwood chef as well, i really wish i spent the extra couple of hundred and got a better compact or other. Dont get me wrong, it does the job, just spend most my time with how much better it could be

    good luck with what ever choice you make, i'm sure you will love the ride and investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Hallelujah!! Finally a few logical posts. It's like people don't even read the original post on threads sometimes, they just respond to the most recent post or continually reply based on their personal agenda.

    It's pretty simple really - a Silvia is a great machine and has frequently been the entry point to home espresso for coffee geeks. I've never owned one, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that says they're super user friendly. A Lelit is possibly a bit more forgiving so possibly a better choice, but still lacks the 'set and forget' feature of something like a Breville BES920.
    Personally I don't like appliance machines. The planned obsolescence and poor build quality irks me, but I've owned a couple of little Sunbeams and have been able to get great coffee from them. In fact I bought a used EM4820 that I cleaned, serviced and slightly modified before giving to my brother and his fiancť with an EM0440 grinder as I knew it would suit them due to its ease of use. And guess what? They love it!! It won't last forever, but it's perfect for them now and when it dies they'll probably be comfortable moving to something a bit more 'proper'.
    So of all the options available I actually still agree with Barry that the Breville BES920 + Smart Grinder fits the OP's requirements the best. And as much as they can have issues there's also plenty of them out there that have been going well for 6 years or so with no problems. As with any espresso machine keeping it clean and treating it with care will go a long way.
    I'm looking forward to hearing what the OP decides to buy (if we haven't already scared him away forever).

  6. #106
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    $1200 was the same price point I had when I purchased my machine. After loads of research I picked up a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. At this price point I would have to say the NS Oscar 2 is the best machine on the market right now.

  7. #107
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    Red face Do some of us buy bigger machines than we really need?

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpingBeanz View Post
    $1200 was the same price point I had when I purchased my machine. After loads of research I picked up a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. At this price point I would have to say the NS Oscar 2 is the best machine on the market right now.
    Nice looking machine but I wonder if some of us (not necessarily you JumpingBeanz) get a bit carried away and purchase a bigger, and more expensive coffee maker than we really need. This has been rammed home to me lately when comparing our Breville BES900 to a DeLonghi EC680. Our Breville was out of action being repaired (took over 6 months!!!) but is finally back and making coffee again. The Delonghi was purchased as a temporary fill in unit.

    And guess what, the coffee really does taste the same from the Breville as from the DeLonghi!!! As I commented elsewhere, my take is the ultimate taste depends on the original bean and how well is is ground, not on the coffee maker. Yes, we all get kudos from owning a finely engineered and well presented unit but, not trying to offend people here (although will probably succeed), more dollars spent on a coffee maker does NOT, IMHO, ensure a better tasting result. There might be features which make the coffee making ritual more subjectively pleasurable, but the final result, the coffee, will be the same.

    As I started off saying, some of us, including me, have purchased coffee makers with greater capacity than we really need or use. The double boiler Breville BAS 900 here would be great for a large family or small office where, left on all day, it would supply coffee on demand. A small Delonghi EC680 would be hopeless in that situation because of its limited capacity BUT for my wife and I, who usually only have a cup in the morning and only rarely some other time during the day, the Breville is overkill but the Delonghi suits us perfectly. It is quick to heat up and the smaller plastic (I hear some someone "yuk" at that) water container is easy to remove and refill.

    So yes, horses for courses, and those who consume coffee throughout the day can justify a bigger machine. But, in my opinion, that is the only reason to buy one.

    I looked at selling our Breville, now virtually reconditioned, but the price of used coffee makers is so low I'm not sure I'll go ahead. In the meantime I'll use up all the tank of water in the Breville but then plan to retire it and revert back to the much smaller (less bench space) DeLonghi. For our purposes that DeLonghi is the "best machine under $1200".
    Last edited by Tassie_Devil; 9th October 2016 at 01:25 PM. Reason: typo corrected

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    And guess what, the coffee really does taste the same from the Breville as from the DeLonghi!!! As I commented elsewhere, my take is the ultimate tasAs I started off saying, some of us, including me, have purchased coffee makers with gte depends on the original bean and how well is is ground, not on the coffee maker. Yes, we all get kudos from owning a finely engineered and well presented unit but, not trying to offend people here (although will probably succeed), more dollars spent on a coffee maker does NOT, IMHO, ensure a better tasting result. There might be features which make the coffee making ritual more subjectively pleasurable, but the final result, the coffee, will be the same.
    It is old news that you can make great espresso with modest equipment if you know what you are doing and know how and knowledge is King.

    Mind you coffee equipment although it can run to 5k for a complete and expensive setup, it is a far cry from what people spend on motor vehicles, for instance where 5k is peanuts.

    Room in the kitchen is a consideration and some people just don't have the room so a very small and quite cheap grinder and maker is all they want and need.

    Others like me don't mind spending and getting a plumbed in work of art that will last for decades and can be used to serve coffee for dinner parties if needed. Good equipment has good resale so for the most part you could get 70% of the what you paid in 5 years time. If you keep it for 20 or 30 years and live that long so much the better.

    I paid $800 for a 9 year old Bezzera BZ40P 11 years ago and sold it for $500 last week.

    Coffee equipment second hand is a great buy as the technology is simple and if you buy a quality machine, you can use it for years and sell it for what you paid for it. In the meantime you get a lovely machine.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    It is old news that you can make great espresso with modest equipment if you know what you are doing and know how and knowledge is King.

    Mind you coffee equipment although it can run to 5k for a complete and expensive setup, it is a far cry from what people spend on motor vehicles, for instance where 5k is peanuts.

    Room in the kitchen is a consideration and some people just don't have the room so a very small and quite cheap grinder and maker is all they want and need.

    Others like me don't mind spending and getting a plumbed in work of art that will last for decades and can be used to serve coffee for dinner parties if needed. Good equipment has good resale so for the most part you could get 70% of the what you paid in 5 years time. If you keep it for 20 or 30 years and live that long so much the better.

    I paid $800 for a 9 year old Bezzera BZ40P 11 years ago and sold it for $500 last week.

    Coffee equipment second hand is a great buy as the technology is simple and if you buy a quality machine, you can use it for years and sell it for what you paid for it. In the meantime you get a lovely machine.
    And that philosophy applies to many objects that depreciate from new with cars a good example of this too.

    Similarly, many are happy with a car that gets them reliably from A to B where others (and I'm guilty here too) take pride in a well made vehicle that is quiet, handles well and a pleasure to drive.
    Last edited by Tassie_Devil; 9th October 2016 at 04:30 PM.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Spot on. A great operator can get decent coffee from a $1k setup. It's the hobby/toy/love/perfection factors that drive people to $5k+ And yes, as far as hobbies go $5k isn't too bad...
    I had a laugh, I guess it boils down to how important any particular "hobby" is to an individual. To me, coffee making is not really a hobby so I'm not prepared to spend big money on it. But fine sounding audio is an important hobby for me and I've spent far too much on that (and we are talking 6 figures here) yet I'm sure few would classify it as a "good" investment and worth spending much on.

    So, bottom line on our header "best machine under $1200" means different things to different people and like so many things in life "best" for one is not necessarily best for others. Viva la difference. It would be a dull world if we all liked the same things and had the same values.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    Our Breville was out of action being repaired (took over 6 months!!!) but is finally back and making coffee again. The Delonghi was purchased as a temporary fill in unit.
    And this is the crux of the matter. The Brevilles and DeLonghis of the world are designed with planned obsolence in mind. When it breaks it's meant to be chucked on the scrap heap so you go out and buy another unit. That's also why they don't have good resale value. 6 months to be repaired? The internals of the NS Oscar II are simple enough that I could repair it myself.

    This is the thing, one machine is designed to last while the other is designed to be thrown away. Proof being you ended up buying two units. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy once than go for the cheaper option and end up having to buy a replacement. In the long run, you'll end up spending more on multiple 'cheap' appliances.

  12. #112
    Member Tassie_Devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpingBeanz View Post
    And this is the crux of the matter. The Brevilles and DeLonghis of the world are designed with planned obsolence in mind. When it breaks it's meant to be chucked on the scrap heap so you go out and buy another unit. That's also why they don't have good resale value. 6 months to be repaired? The internals of the NS Oscar II are simple enough that I could repair it myself.

    This is the thing, one machine is designed to last while the other is designed to be thrown away. Proof being you ended up buying two units. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy once than go for the cheaper option and end up having to buy a replacement. In the long run, you'll end up spending more on multiple 'cheap' appliances.
    Fair comment.

    This morning I replaced the filter as yesterday coffee was spilling everywhere out of the Breville. Sadly, no better this morning so the Breville goes down to the basement. The $300 repair was a waste of money,

    So, we will see how long the "disposable" Delonghi lasts. If it has a short life I'll come back here for advice. At $1500 the BES900 has turned out to be a dud so I will not be buying Breville again. A pity, as at the time of its release it was getting high praise here.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Spot on. A great operator can get decent coffee from a $1k setup.
    To hear this from a sponsor whose livelihood depends on selling coffee making equipment is encouraging. It does you much credit Mr K Bean. Kudos.

    as far as hobbies go $5k isn't too bad...
    Amen to that.

    The other thing to factor in is the hassle of getting something repaired. I don't know about you, but if I experienced a failure like Mr Tassie D. did, and waited 6 months for a repair, I wouldn't be very impressed.

  14. #114
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    $1200 is about street price for a perfect Giotto premium or a Premium Plus in very good condition post service which you could probably keep for a few years and then sell for $1k... Given reputation and demand for them, that's where I'd be spending mine....
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  15. #115
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassie_Devil View Post
    Fair comment.

    This morning I replaced the filter as yesterday coffee was spilling everywhere out of the Breville. Sadly, no better this morning so the Breville goes down to the basement. The $300 repair was a waste of money,

    So, we will see how long the "disposable" Delonghi lasts. If it has a short life I'll come back here for advice. At $1500 the BES900 has turned out to be a dud so I will not be buying Breville again. A pity, as at the time of its release it was getting high praise here.
    Your situation wouldn't be uncommon and I can understand your frustration. The BES900 suffered from 3 or 4 common problems that were spotted by owners fairly early on in the piece and fixes worked out for them by a range of people. Some 'fixes' were actually recommended by Breville. They're all well documented in the Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t.

    It sounds like you've fallen into the trap of relying on the 'authorised service agent' to carry out the work on your Breville. These places are invariably fairly average when it comes to service and tend to be appliance repair shops rather than coffee machine specialists. No service centre that gives a crap would hold a customer's machine for 6 months, that's disgraceful. While I'm glad you've found a machine that meets your requirements in the Delonghi, I think it'd be a shame to consign the Breville to the basement as it does do a few things better than the Delonghi. If you don't have a local service agent that can actually do what needs to be done I'd suggest you consider sending the BES900 interstate to someone that can sort it. CS member 'noidle22' would be able to help I'm sure as he's fixed plenty of these machines over the years. If he can't do it himself he might be able to recommend someone that can. In the grand scheme of things a bit of money spent now on shipping and repair could give you a machine that's actually worth something rather than a pretty looking dust collector in the basement.
    I'm interested to know what filter you replaced when 'coffee was spilling out everywhere' yesterday?? To me it sounds like the group seal needs replacing rather than a filter. One of the common issues the BES900 suffered from was a poor fitting portafilter. This was fixed by replacing and/or modifying the group collar from memory and if this hasn't been done on your machine it might be all it needs to get working well again. Hope this is all of some help.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Your situation wouldn't be uncommon and I can understand your frustration. The BES900 suffered from 3 or 4 common problems that were spotted by owners fairly early on in the piece and fixes worked out for them by a range of people. Some 'fixes' were actually recommended by Breville. They're all well documented in the Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t.

    It sounds like you've fallen into the trap of relying on the 'authorised service agent' to carry out the work on your Breville. These places are invariably fairly average when it comes to service and tend to be appliance repair shops rather than coffee machine specialists. No service centre that gives a crap would hold a customer's machine for 6 months, that's disgraceful. While I'm glad you've found a machine that meets your requirements in the Delonghi, I think it'd be a shame to consign the Breville to the basement as it does do a few things better than the Delonghi. If you don't have a local service agent that can actually do what needs to be done I'd suggest you consider sending the BES900 interstate to someone that can sort it. CS member 'noidle22' would be able to help I'm sure as he's fixed plenty of these machines over the years. If he can't do it himself he might be able to recommend someone that can. In the grand scheme of things a bit of money spent now on shipping and repair could give you a machine that's actually worth something rather than a pretty looking dust collector in the basement.
    I'm interested to know what filter you replaced when 'coffee was spilling out everywhere' yesterday?? To me it sounds like the group seal needs replacing rather than a filter. One of the common issues the BES900 suffered from was a poor fitting portafilter. This was fixed by replacing and/or modifying the group collar from memory and if this hasn't been done on your machine it might be all it needs to get working well again. Hope this is all of some help.
    Thanks Leroy C, a sensible suggestion which I will follow up. I'm sort of getting browned off with the Breville but you are right, not much point in it gathering dust downstairs if all it needs is another seal, something which I should be able to replace as i have lots of tools here to help.

  17. #117
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    As someone also currently looking to upgrade around the same price-point as I have a slowly failing EM7000, the expenditure for me is mainly to (hopefully) invest in longevity. I'd be happy to continue using my current setup however I'm now out of Sunbeam's 2-year warranty period and this thing just isn't reliable - obviously not built to last. As an engineer I respect innovation and things with nice bells & whistles, however the bottom-line is also very important and a simple, reliable machine that will last and last has now become my main criteria following the "cheaper option" experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeHack View Post
    As someone also currently looking to upgrade around the same price-point as I have a slowly failing EM7000, the expenditure for me is mainly to (hopefully) invest in longevity. I'd be happy to continue using my current setup however I'm now out of Sunbeam's 2-year warranty period and this thing just isn't reliable - obviously not built to last. As an engineer I respect innovation and things with nice bells & whistles, however the bottom-line is also very important and a simple, reliable machine that will last and last has now become my main criteria following the "cheaper option" experience.
    Yes. Check the equipment for sale here. You can do better than these shit quality consumer machines. Clever users make them work after they're broken and lucky users cheerfully use them without problems.

    I think the proper machines are dead simple with few parts but well made and last for years and that is what you should aim for. As a bonus you will get your money back rather than throwing it in a pit. You may well even have a nice machine that looks great in your kitchen.
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  19. #119
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    Definately look on the coffee hardware sale section. High quality machines will last a really long time. I have bought 2 machines from here and they have been great. I would go for a heat exchange machine and these can often be found for the money you are looking to spend and likely afford a good grinder too. I bought a bezzera bz99 and a compak k3 for 1100 and the grinder was brand new. Happy shopping
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    HI all,

    Not sure if this thread is still going but I thought it might be better to ask here than start a new one as its related.

    I am after a new espresso machine under $1200
    . I have the Baratza sette 270W grinder that arrived yesterday and am currently using the Saeco Via Venezia machine, but the more im learning and reading the more I'm realizing that needs an upgrade too. I primarily will make 1 milk based drink per day (maybe 2 since they will taste better, but wife doesn't drink coffee which makes funding this harder) although occasionally this 1-2 cups increases due to guests but normally its just me. Might get into espresso shots though since quality will improve but who knows. I hope to keep this new machine for 10-15 years so I want it to be good enough to not NEED to be upgraded. I consider myself a novice. the more I learn the more I realise there is to learn. Im interested in learning though but still a novice at this stage.

    Im currently looking seriously at the Lelit PL41TEMD ($989) which I like because of the PID (although I understand that temp surfing isnt the end of the world but thats primarily why I think I have discounted the Rancilio Silvia 2018 M V5). I was also looking at the Breville BES920 Dual Boiler Coffee Machine. This machine is very cheap now ($714) and is dual boiler and you can set brew time etc. I dont like the idea of it though compared to an Italian espresso brand. I think im swayed by the romance of it all but I cant deny the features and price (understand might not last as long and wont have the same resale but resale isnt really a big factor). The ECM Manufacture Casa V is interesting but advice from the store is that the Lelit is maybe better for $200 less.

    I guess my question is subjective to a large extent but whats the "best" option for me (given above requirements?). Any retailers I should look at (Ideally Melb but interstate ok), any other brands or models? Would dual boiler be much better? Should I try and extend my budget to $1500? Lelit PL60 is dual boiler ($1699 or $1399 for new but dented). Lelit Victoria ($1469) also looks good and has timer for brewing which could save need for a scale or timer. The QUICK MILL SILVANO EVO ($1450) is also interesting with a shot timer built into the PID.

    The lelit PL41TEMD (ideal price & probably front runner) seems to have a 250ml boiler and 57.5 tamper size rather than the 58mm I believe is standard. are these issues? I dont expect to get multiple tampers or spend $400 on one either. I think id just get the $75 lelit tamper and stick with it.

    anyway thanks for reading (if i haven't rambled too much) and thanks for any advice or additional info to consider. cheers
    Last edited by crazyjoe; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:49 PM.

  21. #121
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    I think you can discount the dual boiler. With those you hope it breaks in 22 months and then get a new one under warranty. Itís not worth it.

    For long term others will know better in that price bracket but I would stretch for the dual boiler lelit as a milk drinker and entertaining.

    Price is temporary but choice is forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty888 View Post
    I think you can discount the dual boiler. With those you hope it breaks in 22 months and then get a new one under warranty. It’s not worth it.

    For long term others will know better in that price bracket but I would stretch for the dual boiler lelit as a milk drinker and entertaining.

    Price is temporary but choice is forever.
    Thanks, I totally agree that price is temporary. what difference will $500 make in 10 years time but there has to be a line. esp since my wife is not a coffee drinker.

  23. #123
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    Couldnít agree more. I was taught what one can you afford and go one level up from there. So if you think you can stretch to whatever go one level up.

    The other thing is what does the next level offer. If you were still in heat exchangers then Iíd say save but you get a big feature extra.

    Use the quote form and see what the sponsors can offer here.

  24. #124
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    The BES920 is great buying at $700ish. Will it last 10yrs? If you look after it thereís a good chance it will. Will it last 15? Thatís more unlikely. Donít count it out altogether, but realise that it is slightly lighter when it comes to build quality than the Lelit and it will give you problems if you donít treat it with due care.
    I think any of the Lelits represent very good value. From a value stand point Iíd put them above any of the other ones youíve mentioned. Do you need to spend $1500 to get the PL60? No, you donít, but maybe you should. What Iíve learnt through my Ďhome baristaí journey is that spending more and getting the best machine you can afford will definitely reduce the likelihood that youíll want to upgrade soon. However it wonít eliminate it altogether, so if the entry level Lelit will work for you (and potentially make things a bit easier on the home front around the $$s spent) then it might be the way to go. It may mean you want to upgrade in a few years, but at least a Lelit will hold a reasonable amount of value, especially if youíve looked after it properly. A Breville wonít do as well in this way.
    So buying a machine that COULD last 15yrs is a good plan. Realising that you probably wonít keep it that long canít hurt either. I had a laugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty888 View Post
    Couldn’t agree more. I was taught what one can you afford and go one level up from there. So if you think you can stretch to whatever go one level up.

    The other thing is what does the next level offer. If you were still in heat exchangers then I’d say save but you get a big feature extra.

    Use the quote form and see what the sponsors can offer here.
    many thanks. sorry can you explain the quote form pls? I'm assuming I fill a form out with what I want and stores that are members might try to offer me best price? do I need to know exact model Im after?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    The BES920 is great buying at $700ish. Will it last 10yrs? If you look after it there’s a good chance it will. Will it last 15? That’s more unlikely. Don’t count it out altogether, but realise that it is slightly lighter when it comes to build quality than the Lelit and it will give you problems if you don’t treat it with due care.
    I think any of the Lelits represent very good value. From a value stand point I’d put them above any of the other ones you’ve mentioned. Do you need to spend $1500 to get the PL60? No, you don’t, but maybe you should. What I’ve learnt through my ‘home barista’ journey is that spending more and getting the best machine you can afford will definitely reduce the likelihood that you’ll want to upgrade soon. However it won’t eliminate it altogether, so if the entry level Lelit will work for you (and potentially make things a bit easier on the home front around the $$s spent) then it might be the way to go. It may mean you want to upgrade in a few years, but at least a Lelit will hold a reasonable amount of value, especially if you’ve looked after it properly. A Breville won’t do as well in this way.
    So buying a machine that COULD last 15yrs is a good plan. Realising that you probably won’t keep it that long can’t hurt either. I had a laugh.
    haha, I imagine you guys would get a laugh over my desire to not upgrade for 15 years Everything you say rings true. Maybe my brain says the breville but my heart says the Lelit (or other Italian style machine). I generally listen to my heart, especially if my brain says "yeah, go head buddy, its not a bad call". I assume the lelit's are still pretty easy to use for a novice (grind and tamping and dosing are still things I need to control on the breville).

    I guess I dont see the Lelit PL41TEMD as entry level. I guess it is for proper machines, but I'd put my Saeco via venezia at entry level. Im assuming the lelit will be a bit improvement over that and a big enough improvement to warrant the cost. Not sure myself if dual boiler is needed? I have single boiler now and dont mind waiting. its time to get the milk and my cup and spoon etc.

    Increasing my budget might be possible but it seems im looking at $500 (or a 1/3) more than the lelit
    PL41TEMD. thanks for your help!

  27. #127
    Senior Member rusty888's Avatar
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    I have the dual boiler now and I do enjoy it. I canít fault it. As joe said I bought it knowing if I wanted when it breaks Iíll upgrade. I say to most itís a great buy if you budget a few years from it but wouldnít be 10 years. That would be the exception.

    The quote form is as you mentioned. Just say what your feeling. X is my budget and Iím thinking of ABC. Any advice etc. they will recommend and offer a price.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty888 View Post
    I have the dual boiler now and I do enjoy it. I can’t fault it. As joe said I bought it knowing if I wanted when it breaks I’ll upgrade. I say to most it’s a great buy if you budget a few years from it but wouldn’t be 10 years. That would be the exception.

    The quote form is as you mentioned. Just say what your feeling. X is my budget and I’m thinking of ABC. Any advice etc. they will recommend and offer a price.
    cheers mate.

  29. #129
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    haha, I imagine you guys would get a laugh over my desire to not upgrade for 15 years Everything you say rings true. Maybe my brain says the breville but my heart says the Lelit (or other Italian style machine). I generally listen to my heart,
    No laughs from me Joe, sounds very much like common sense.

    Buy the best you can afford, you won't regret it in the long run, easier to use and longer lasting by far.

    A good E61 machine would be an excellent choice for longevity.
    trentski likes this.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    No laughs from me Joe, sounds very much like common sense.

    Buy the best you can afford, you won't regret it in the long run, easier to use and longer lasting by far.

    A good E61 machine would be an excellent choice for longevity.
    I assume your after E61 mention is beacuse its certainly well over the $1200 mark? I believe they would be over $1500 too?

  31. #131
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    I assume your after E61 mention is beacuse its certainly well over the $1200 mark? I believe they would be over $1500 too?
    Not at all, the smile was simply intended as a pleasantry.

    Your right though, a new E61 will be well over the budget you mention, have you contemplated second hand, some bargains come up from time to time in the for sale area of this forum, nothing wrong with a well maintained used machine.

  32. #132
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    I assume your after E61 mention is because its certainly well over the $1200 mark? I believe they would be over $1500 too?
    You mentioned earlier that you have a fairly low usage and that you don't mind the idea of a single boiler. One option that may be worth considering is the Vibiemme Domobar Piccolo.

    Site sponsor Coffee-A-Roma in Melbourne still have them listed at $1499 but have been showing out-of stock since before Christmas. At this price its a really good buy if still available.

    https://www.coffee-a-roma.com.au/sto...r_Piccolo.html

    The Piccolo is a single 750ml boiler with 1400 watt element for quick boiler heat-up and recovery. Its uses the same E61 group-head as all the Vibiemme domestic machines (Junior HX, Super and double boiler). A micro-switch cuts the pump if water in the reservoir falls too low. Stainless Steel body and frame and commercial quality components all make for good durability. Brew pressure gauge is installed. Included are 2 portafilters (use one for brewing and one for daily backflushing with water using a blind insert.) Spares are readily available and will be for a long time to come.

    Having previously used the Silvia for a few years and now a Levetta (earlier Piccolo), the Vibiemme with the E61 definetly produces more consistent and I think higher quality coffee. It uses an adjustable remote thermostat with liquid filled capillary tubing to a sensor inside a sleeve immersed inside the boiler. The temperature deviation for these types of thermostats is only 4 degrees celcius (on-off-on) and they seem to be very responsive. If you observe E61 cold start heat-up times (30-40 mins) and always brew soon after the light goes out, brew temp will be consistent. I tend to run water through the group when the heating lamp initially goes out and then repeat 2 or 3 times after which let it stabilise for 5-10 mins. Seems to speed things up for me. As with most decent machines the OPV is adjustable to achieve the desired 9 bar pressure at the portafilter. The one down side is unlike the HX machines you need to wait a short to heat-up to steam like any single boiler but I find mine to be quick compared to the Silvia.

    The Piccolo doesn't have an electronic black box to go wrong like higher end E61 HX machines. Compared to the Lelit PL41TEMD, any E61 will however require some extra maintenance such as lubrication and keeping an eye on scale build-up in the group-head, less so if filtered water is used. These are things you can learn to do yourself to save money but if you don't have the right tools, a couple extra may need to be bought.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:14 PM.

  33. #133
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    Have a look at a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. Its under $1500, timed shot (not volumetric, timed) HX so can steam and pull shotat same time, loads of steam and 15-20 minute heat up time but if that’s an issue put it on a timer and issue solved. Mines on a timer for 6:30am so ready at 7am and then on and off a minute later at 6pm so if boiler needs to fill it does it when house is noisey not super quite.
    Drip tray, top and rear are plastic and the look isn’t for everyone.
    if can get an OPV installed when buying i’d say do it as made my Oscar 2 more consistent (or is that hid my flaws a bit!)
    Dimal, Casa Espresso and zeezaw like this.

  34. #134
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    Thanks Yelta. I had considered 2nd hand but decided against it as I dont know enough to ensure i get a good one although Id consider 2nd hand from a shop with a warranty. My grinder for eg was brand new, never used but had some scratches from shipping so was discounted.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    You mentioned earlier that you have a fairly low usage and that you don't mind the idea of a single boiler. One option that may be worth considering is the Vibiemme Domobar Piccolo.

    Site sponsor Coffee-A-Roma in Melbourne still have them listed at $1499 but have been showing out-of stock since before Christmas. At this price its a really good buy if still available.

    https://www.coffee-a-roma.com.au/sto...r_Piccolo.html

    The Piccolo is a single 750ml boiler with 1400 watt element for quick boiler heat-up and recovery. Its uses the same E61 group-head as all the Vibiemme domestic machines (Junior HX, Super and double boiler). A micro-switch cuts the pump if water in the reservoir falls too low. Stainless Steel body and frame and commercial quality components all make for good durability. Brew pressure gauge is installed. Included are 2 portafilters (use one for brewing and one for daily backflushing with water using a blind insert.) Spares are readily available and will be for a long time to come.

    Having previously used the Silvia for a few years and now a Levetta (earlier Piccolo), the Vibiemme with the E61 definetly produces more consistent and I think higher quality coffee. It uses an adjustable remote thermostat with liquid filled capillary tubing to a sensor inside a sleeve immersed inside the boiler. The temperature deviation for these types of thermostats is only 4 degrees celcius (on-off-on) and they seem to be very responsive. If you observe E61 cold start heat-up times (30-40 mins) and always brew soon after the light goes out, brew temp will be consistent. I tend to run water through the group when the heating lamp initially goes out and then repeat 2 or 3 times after which let it stabilise for 5-10 mins. Seems to speed things up for me. As with most decent machines the OPV is adjustable to achieve the desired 9 bar pressure at the portafilter. The one down side is unlike the HX machines you need to wait a short to heat-up to steam like any single boiler but I find mine to be quick compared to the Silvia.

    The Piccolo doesn't have an electronic black box to go wrong like higher end E61 HX machines. Compared to the Lelit PL41TEMD, any E61 will however require some extra maintenance such as lubrication and keeping an eye on scale build-up in the group-head, less so if filtered water is used. These are things you can learn to do yourself to save money but if you don't have the right tools, a couple extra may need to be bought.
    Thanks for the info. appreciate the detail! It certainly does look like a good buy compared to prices at other stores. It looks in stock to me? I have a look at some reviews or comparisons so I can understand this type of machine as I must admit its a bit confusing and actually intimidating (price, pro aesthetics and it seems harder to use and maintain than say the lelit). I love the safety feature of cutting off power if I forget to fill the water up. is it an auto boiler fill machine? does it have a PID? 750ml boiler seems huge compared to the 250ml one on the lelit.

    The start up time is pretty long at 30 - 40 min though. The extra maintenance is something to consider as lubrication, scale and standard backflushing seem a bit. Im scared that this kind of machine might require too much prior knowledge or experience for me? Might also be in instruction manual or maybe the store is helpful to explain it all (although they might not want home maintenance?).

    Is this machine more suited for espresso drinkers, not latte or flat white drinkers?

    Only issue is IF i can increase my budget to $1500, what else is now out there to consider too?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mb21 View Post
    Have a look at a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. Its under $1500, timed shot (not volumetric, timed) HX so can steam and pull shot at same time, loads of steam and 15-20 minute heat up time but if that’s an issue put it on a timer and issue solved. Mines on a timer for 6:30am so ready at 7am and then on and off a minute later at 6pm so if boiler needs to fill it does it when house is noisey not super quite.
    Drip tray, top and rear are plastic and the look isn’t for everyone.
    if can get an OPV installed when buying i’d say do it as made my Oscar 2 more consistent (or is that hid my flaws a bit!)
    Thanks for this info. appreciate your insight! Just had a look at the Oscar II and it has some nice features and some features others dont have. In fact it does seem to have some good things like safety value, auto water filling (need to be plumbed or auto fill boiler?), water shortage indicator. This is all pretty confusing as it seems theres no perfect machine or more so that each machine has some things I want and not others and its hard to know whats the key ones until ive been using it for a while. I can get one for $1349 but I think id need to add an OPV for $200. It doesnt do manual shots only programmable shots which is a shame it doesnt do both. Not really clear on what the programmable buttons do. i guess you just need to experiment with the recipe and what time is best for the shots. Im not a fan of the aesthetic though or the plastic top but thats not the most important thing here.

    Not sure how an HX compares with an E61 vs standard boiler on the lelit? I like how it does steam and brew at the same time though.

  37. #137
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    is it an auto boiler fill machine? does it have a PID? 750ml boiler seems huge compared to the 250ml one on the lelit.

    Is this machine more suited for espresso drinkers, not latte or flat white drinkers?
    Its not an auto fill boiler. You treat it just like the Silvia. Prime the boiler at start-up, before steaming and especially after steaming. This is the same for any single boiler to ensure long element life.

    No PID. The adjustable thermostat is very sensitive and when set to the correct temperature together with the 750ml boiler and E61 grouphead give very good temperature stability. This gives the Piccolo its own niche without spending the extra for a HX machine to get the same brewing performance.

    As mentioned earlier, steaming is a case of hitting the steam switch after brewing and waiting a very short time for it to come up to steam temp. Similar procedure to the Silvia except more powerful steam. Not a big issue for 2 cups at a time. If you regularly made 4 or more then a HX machine would be more suited but you pay for the conveniance of instant steam both in complexity of the machine and price to purchase and service.

  38. #138
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    Thanks for this info. appreciate your insight! Just had a look at the Oscar II and it has some nice features and some features others dont have. In fact it does seem to have some good things like safety value, auto water filling (need to be plumbed or auto fill boiler?), water shortage indicator. This is all pretty confusing as it seems theres no perfect machine or more so that each machine has some things I want and not others and its hard to know whats the key ones until ive been using it for a while. I can get one for $1349 but I think id need to add an OPV for $200. It doesnt do manual shots only programmable shots which is a shame it doesnt do both. Not really clear on what the programmable buttons do. i guess you just need to experiment with the recipe and what time is best for the shots. Im not a fan of the aesthetic though or the plastic top but thats not the most important thing here.

    Not sure how an HX compares with an E61 vs standard boiler on the lelit? I like how it does steam and brew at the same time though.
    Hi Crazy Joe

    We supply the Oscar II and can fit the OPV pre purchase for you.

    What many people do is to program the single shot for 60 seconds and then use it as manual stop/start button (if you want a manual shot) and program the second double shot button as a programmed dose. That way you get a manual and programed option.

    An HX machine refers to how the heat/boiler/steam is configured. E61 refers to the type of group head manufactured by Faema. An E61 machine can have a single boiler, HX or dual boiler configuration.

    As well as the Oscar II we have the new CIME 0011 which is an HX E61 machine compact. Exceptionally well priced https://www.casaespresso.com.au/cime-011.html

    We have a few CS members who have purchase the CIME

    Feel free to call me if needed.

    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    zeezaw likes this.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Its not an auto fill boiler. You treat it just like the Silvia. Prime the boiler at start-up, before steaming and especially after steaming. This is the same for any single boiler to ensure long element life.

    No PID. The adjustable thermostat is very sensitive and when set to the correct temperature together with the 750ml boiler and E61 grouphead give very good temperature stability. This gives the Piccolo its own niche without spending the extra for a HX machine to get the same brewing performance.

    As mentioned earlier, steaming is a case of hitting the steam switch after brewing and waiting a very short time for it to come up to steam temp. Similar procedure to the Silvia except more powerful steam. Not a big issue for 2 cups at a time. If you regularly made 4 or more then a HX machine would be more suited but you pay for the conveniance of instant steam both in complexity of the machine and price to purchase and service.
    Many thanks. It does sound similar to the lelit, just with a better boiler. I guess it doesnt need a PID.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Hi Crazy Joe

    We supply the Oscar II and can fit the OPV pre purchase for you.

    What many people do is to program the single shot for 60 seconds and then use it as manual stop/start button (if you want a manual shot) and program the second double shot button as a programmed dose. That way you get a manual and programed option.

    An HX machine refers to how the heat/boiler/steam is configured. E61 refers to the type of group head manufactured by Faema. An E61 machine can have a single boiler, HX or dual boiler configuration.

    As well as the Oscar II we have the new CIME 0011 which is an HX E61 machine compact. Exceptionally well priced https://www.casaespresso.com.au/cime-011.html

    We have a few CS members who have purchase the CIME

    Feel free to call me if needed.

    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    Thank Antony. I'll check out the Cime 011 and thanks for the info on the Oscar II. I might give you a call as theres a lot of options and the learning curve is steep on benefits of certain features vs other. cheers

  41. #141
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    Don't forget to check out La Pavoni!

    Great fun & you learn a lot.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortblackman View Post
    Don't forget to check out La Pavoni!

    Great fun & you learn a lot.
    will do. thank you!

  43. #143
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    Hey all,

    Thanks for everyone's advice and help. Just thought Id update the thread for any future people who have the same needs by letting you know I ended up with the CIME 011. HX machine with E61 grouphead. Very nice looking machine and works well. Good price and for me I think it was better than a single boiler to give me instant milk frothing abilities. I am certainly now making the best coffees i have ever made at home and better than many cafes. Paired with the Baratza sette 270W its a good combo for my needs and budget and I highly recommend it. cheers again.

  44. #144
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Best machine under $1200

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyjoe View Post
    Hey all,

    Thanks for everyone's advice and help. Just thought Id update the thread for any future people who have the same needs by letting you know I ended up with the CIME 011. HX machine with E61 grouphead. Very nice looking machine and works well. Good price and for me I think it was better than a single boiler to give me instant milk frothing abilities. I am certainly now making the best coffees i have ever made at home and better than many cafes. Paired with the Baratza sette 270W its a good combo for my needs and budget and I highly recommend it. cheers again.
    The CIME brand is certainly gaining admirers. Well priced, clever features and an E61 HX.

    Your coffee is only going to get better as you become more accustomed to the machine and weight settings on your grinder.

    Thanks again for your business

    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    Last edited by Casa Espresso; 6 Days Ago at 09:05 PM.
    crazyjoe likes this.

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