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Thread: Frustration with getting my coffee right

  1. #1
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    Frustration with getting my coffee right

    Hi all,

    Im new to the coffee scene after a friend recently gave me a Gaggia Classic. His wife wouldn't let him leave it on the bench ( so he had to pack the whole thing up, empty the water, put it away, after every coffee.) So now it's mine. Problem I have is I'm about to kill someone if I can't figure out why the coffee doesn't look like all the hipsters on YouTube. Every video I watch online they take like 30 seconds to pull an espresso shot. Mine is more like a cum shot than an espresso shot, its too fast, it explodes into the cup, it's all over in about 3 seconds and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I think a finer grind would fix it but I don't have one. I'm buying quality fresh ground beans online. Any tips for getting the machine to take it slower?
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I don't know, you could play some Barry White songs while brewing the coffee?

    Seriously, you are going to struggle if you can't control the grind. All you can do is up the dose of coffee in the basket and tamp harder, which has an obvious limit. But 'fresh' ground beans don't really exist. They aint 'fresh' for too long after being ground.

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    I belted the tamp down with a hammer and it still goes through it too fast. These guys grind it to order and deliver next day (except weekends)
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    What about if I tamp it down then put more coffee in then tamp it down again?

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    I spent 2 hours experimenting yesterday. I'm normally pretty well tempered but by the end of that process the anger sharks were circling... I finished up dumping about $20worth of shots down the drain and all I learned is how not to do coffee.

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Buy a grinder and you will have control over that variable!!
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    The puck expands and it would probably attached itself to the shower screen like poop.
    Is there no chance to get a grinder?
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    Yep. I think your right Greenman. I'm gunna buy one when I have some cash. In the mean time I have 2 kilo of ground coffee to use.
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    When you say it expands do you mean the actual filter cup thingamejig bulges out sideways? How's that happen?

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Yep need a grinder. Ask for advice on what will be the min you need for that machine and you should get plenty of users here giving you help. Also indicate budget and whether you harbour desires to later move to a higher end machine.

    Cheers
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    Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    When you say it expands do you mean the actual filter cup thingamejig bulges out sideways? How's that happen?
    Dry coffee grounds + water = absorption

    Absorption = expansion

    The problem is, your coffee wasn't ground fresh... therefore there's been a level of absorption that has happened already and unfortunately... aaahhh don't worry about the details, it'll just bore you.

    Better to invest in a $30 stovetop pot and at least get some value out of already ground coffee.

    And put away the machine for now until you have a means to grind coffee beans.
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    Mine is more like a cum shot than an espresso shot, its too fast, it explodes into the cup, it's all over in about 3 seconds and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
    Thanks for that insight into your sex life... I think!

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi OP.
    You need a grinder. I think of the grinder hopper collar as the steering wheel.
    I love that analogy Paul!

    This is the answer, blincy. Tighten up the pour, slow things down, consistent pressure, building to a... wait, are we still talking about coffee here?

    Anyway, aim for 30ml in about 30 seconds.
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    Frustration with getting my coffee right

    As well as the "need a grinder" comments, when you bought the beans online, did they give you a choice if how they were ground? If they were ground for a manual process like drip, filter, French press etc they will never work in your espresso machine as they will be much too coarse. You can still use them for French press / plunger if you don't want to waste them and have one buried at the back of the kitchen. Us snobs will complain that the coffee isn't fresh, but it might be better than waiting them.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Look up cold press coffee for the remainder of your ground coffee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Dry coffee grounds + water = absorption

    Absorption = expansion
    I was under the impression that the heat from the brewing water is the major contributor to the puck expansion.

    To the OP: Another idea to use your grounds is to throw it into a Vietnamese styled dripped and add condensed milk/ice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjoyce View Post
    As well as the "need a grinder" comments, when you bought the beans online, did they give you a choice if how they were ground? If they were ground for a manual process like drip, filter, French press etc they will never work in your espresso machine as they will be much too coarse.
    This. You can get appropriately ground coffee from any roaster, but it will never be fine-tuned for your machine, hence the need for your own grinder. I find myself adjusting grind for each batch of beans I use!
    Also, how much coffee (in terms of weight) are you putting into your basket? You need to dose adequately in addition to having the right grind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by charzy View Post
    I was under the impression that the heat from the brewing water is the major contributor to the puck expansion.

    To the OP: Another idea to use your grounds is to throw it into a Vietnamese styled dripped and add condensed milk/ice.

    oh yes, heat will definitely contribute to expansion immensely.

    But water alone will create expansion (in fact it's the catalyst); Try pre-infuse coffee with cold water such as in an Aeropress (Inverted) ... or even look at Cold brewing, and you will see expansion similar to introducing water to a dried up sponge.

    The heat (source of energy) just speeds up the reaction.

    Mind you, above info is just a small part of the bigger... Puck expansion has other contributors not explained here.


    This (source of energy) is also how coffee eventually becomes stale:

    Loss and displacement of gases (In this case it's C02 when it comes to coffee)

    Hence why keeping coffee in a Cool and Dry place is necessary to slow down the process.

    The long of short of it is that once your coffee is ground up, the gases get released and displacement occurs (absorbing atmospheric moisture), hence why pre-ground coffee won't deliver a full crema in your extraction. (because half of the gases - if not all - has been released prior to brewing)


    Conclusion:
    Get a grinder and grind your beans on-demand, otherwise don't be surprised why your extractions aren't 'Hipster-like'
    Last edited by GunBarista; 8th February 2017 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Trying to be less confusing
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  18. #18
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    Definitely need a grinder. Most pre-ground coffee is not fine enough. Also, ground coffee goes stale very quickly (perhaps 15 minutes) so unless its vacuum packed you're using stale coffee which won't help. Even if it is vacuum packed (eg Illy), it'll be stale after the first use. The Gaggia classic is a decent machine for its price range and is capable of making reasonable coffee. Do you know anyone who can lend you a grinder to have a play? It doesn't have to be too fancy, a Breville or Sunbeam small conical would be sufficiently adjustable to get you a 30 second 'hipster shot'.
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  19. #19
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    Used to have this problem so bought the basic Breville bur grinder. Not good enough ! would not grind fine enough and I could not be bothered modifying it. Moved it on and bought the Breville Pro. Great machine and grinds fine enough for my coffee maker.
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    Is the OP using the correct portafilter / basket configuration ? My guess is he's not using the pressurised basket with the two-way pin configuration.
    We've had a few in for repair at work and never had any issues with ground coffee unless we used the wrong basket configuration - then it poured too fast and tasted very bitter.
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  21. #21
    Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    Putting aside my scientific-crazed psycho episode...

    Dude, you got a FREE Gaggia... Go and buy a decent grinder and start enjoying your journey in coffee!

    Lots of site sponsors here that are more than willing to guide you right.

    Here, I'll start with one: Rocky doserless grinder

    Rocky-Doserless-Grinder.jpg

    It's just shy of $500 and will last you a decade.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Putting aside my scientific-crazed psycho episode...

    Dude, you got a FREE Gaggia... Go and buy a decent grinder and start enjoying your journey in coffee!

    Lots of site sponsors here that are more than willing to guide you right.

    Here, I'll start with one: Rocky doserless grinder

    Rocky-Doserless-Grinder.jpg

    It's just shy of $500 and will last you a decade.
    Rocky and mazzer mini have had their time at the top. There's better out there for the money these days

  23. #23
    Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Rocky and mazzer mini have had their time at the top. There's better out there for the money these days
    Of course, but more importantly;
    Where can I get a Mazzer mini for under $500?

    ..I always need a spare :P

  24. #24
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    I wish roasters would NOT give "grind for espresso" as an option at check out unless accompanied with a *this will likely NOT suit your coffee machine* and give you substandard results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Of course, but more importantly;
    Where can I get a Mazzer mini for under $500?

    ..I always need a spare :P
    They come up fairly regularly in the FS section of these boards.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post
    I wish roasters would NOT give "grind for espresso" as an option at check out unless accompanied with a *this will likely NOT suit your coffee machine* and give you substandard results.
    Not so sure about that, lets face it, it's up to the home barista to know the ins and outs of their own equipment and make decisions accordingly.

    You can pay top price for quality produce, however a poor cook can turn the same stuff into swill, no sign at the butcher or fish shop with similar warnings.
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    Yes they did. They have French Press / Plunger, Commercial, Turkish, Stove Top Perculater, Beans or Home Espresso. I figured HE was the finest grind.

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    im using as much as possibly will fit without blocking the shower curtain. If I could put more in I would but when I try I can't even get the group head on

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    Thanks Art. I'll give it a go. Thanks for the tipster about the hipster

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    Was the one that worked well the breville md4 ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Hi OP.
    You need a grinder. I think of the grinder hopper collar as the steering wheel.
    Yeah I pretty much have to echo what everyone else is saying - you definitely need a grinder, for two reasons:

    1) It means you're making coffee with genuinely fresh grounds.

    Consider what happens to a banana or apple when you peel it and chop it up. It starts to get funky after maybe 10 minutes and continues to go downhill rapidly. That's what happens to your coffee beans when they are ground. You really need to be brewing within a few minutes after grinding.

    2) Having a grinder to work with means you can grind a shots worth at a time and adjust the fineness until your coffee is coming out at the right consistency. Beats buying a kilo preground at the wrong setting.
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    Mate you are spot on with that thank you Tdunster! I've never seen or heard of that pin nor the pressurised puck. He never gave me those items when he gifted the machine. All I got was a double shot puck and a single shot. I watched a few videos on the Gaggia but never saw that one. Bloody beudy mate

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    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Rocky and mazzer mini have had their time at the top. There's better out there for the money these days
    Well don't just drop that little pearl and go....put us out of our misery.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post
    I wish roasters would NOT give "grind for espresso" as an option at check out unless accompanied with a *this will likely NOT suit your coffee machine* and give you substandard results.
    You mean something along the lines of what Andy has posted above the Grind Options in BeanBay...
    Bean Options.JPG

    Mal.
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    im using as much as possibly will fit without blocking the shower curtain. If I could put more in I would but when I try I can't even get the group head on
    It might be an idea to learn to use the 'reply with quote' button, so that your replies appear below the quote that you are replying to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    It might be an idea to learn to use the 'reply with quote' button, so that your replies appear below the quote that you are replying to.
    Ok Hopefully this is right now. Thanks
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  37. #37
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Of course, but more importantly;
    Where can I get a Mazzer mini for under $500?

    ..I always need a spare :P
    I reckon $500 is about right for a mazzer mini. Still wouldn't buy one though.

  38. #38
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    I reckon $500 is about right for a mazzer mini. Still wouldn't buy one though.
    Another pearl. Please either offer up an opinion based on your own first hand experience with Rocky v some other grinder or Mini v some other grinder or keep these negative comments about what are very good grinders to yourself. There are excellent alternatives to both of the above-mentioned grinders but that doesn't detract from their quality- grind and build - and you are not making a case for their competitors by posting as you have.

    Cheers
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    Yes they did. They have French Press / Plunger, Commercial, Turkish, Stove Top Perculater, Beans or Home Espresso. I figured HE was the finest grind.
    No, you should have bought 'commercial' type ground coffee. This should work better, but not as good as grinding fresh with your own grinder at home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    No, you should have bought 'commercial' type ground coffee. This should work better, but not as good as grinding fresh with your own grinder at home.
    My thoughts as well Leroy I wished I had asked for commercial. I think Tdunster nailed the main issue but all good suggestions. Definitely will eventually get a grinder too. The Breville MD4 seems like a good place to start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Absolutely

    Better still, get one of these for well under $500:
    https://www.kbean.com.au/coffee-grinders/macap-m2m

    ....then get some training. If you're in Melbourne visit me for free training. Here are some tips: https://www.kbean.com.au/training/
    Thanks b will do. Yeah is a sweet deal I'll def get a grinder soon. Even as it is I've got it pumping half decent coffee out it's just a bit weak. I'll check the links out for some tips.
    Cheers mate
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  42. #42
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    The Breville MD4 seems like a good place to start.
    Macap M4D?

    Mal.

  43. #43
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott View Post
    Another pearl. Please either offer up an opinion based on your own first hand experience with Rocky v some other grinder or Mini v some other grinder or keep these negative comments about what are very good grinders to yourself. There are excellent alternatives to both of the above-mentioned grinders but that doesn't detract from their quality- grind and build - and you are not making a case for their competitors by posting as you have.

    Cheers
    Get out of bed on the wrong side?

    I used to have a rocky, now have a k3wbc. What do you want to know?

    Site sponsor jetblack have a mazzer mini doser model on their website for $929. In that price range there are much better offerings. There are much better offerings for less than that.

    Not sure why you are defending mazzer so fiercely. The mini was at the top of the tree 5 years ago but imho isnt there now. At $500 it would be worth considering.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Not sure why you are defending mazzer so fiercely. The mini was at the top of the tree 5 years ago but imho isnt there now. At $500 it would be worth considering.
    Opinions Ozscott, thats all they are.

    I bought a Mazzer Mini 5 or six years ago, it's a great grinder, I don't see myself upgrading unless the motor fails or similar.

    Having said that if I were in the market for a grinder now would probably buy something else, plenty available to choose from.

    However the Mazzer is a solidly built work horse, certainly nothing wrong with the grind quality, I suspect they will be around for a long time to come.

    Have noticed there is a tendency to dump on the Mazzer whenever the opportunity arises, not sure why this is?
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post

    Site sponsor jetblack have a mazzer mini doser model on their website for $929. In that price range there are much better offerings. There are much better offerings for less than that.
    .... $929 seems a bit high for a doser... you sure it's not for an Auto?

    Mazzer Manuals (Doser) should be about $700

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Opinions Ozscott, thats all they are.

    I bought a Mazzer Mini 5 or six years ago, it's a great grinder, I don't see myself upgrading unless the motor fails or similar.

    Having said that if I were in the market for a grinder now would probably buy something else, plenty available to choose from.

    However the Mazzer is a solidly built work horse, certainly nothing wrong with the grind quality, I suspect they will be around for a long time to come.

    Have noticed there is a tendency to dump on the Mazzer whenever the opportunity arises, not sure why this is?
    I have a Mazzer Mini Doser in a cafe doing a kg or so of decaf for 7 years now.
    Doesn't look like it's going anywhere too unless the cafe gets flooded and somehow it got submerged....

    I guess at home you'd probably want something nicer, but for a commercial environment we just want something that works year after year, and Mazzers are proven to do that.

    Personal opinion, of course.
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  47. #47
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Get out of bed on the wrong side?

    I used to have a rocky, now have a k3wbc. What do you want to know?

    Site sponsor jetblack have a mazzer mini doser model on their website for $929. In that price range there are much better offerings. There are much better offerings for less than that.

    Not sure why you are defending mazzer so fiercely. The mini was at the top of the tree 5 years ago but imho isnt there now. At $500 it would be worth considering.
    Trentski, I think you still miss my point. I am not defending Mazzer or Rocky. They are good enough to stand for themselves. Likewise Macap make excellent grinders in all price ranges. My point, again, is that you say don't get a Mini etc because even at reduced prices there are better value grinders yet you don't say, from YOUR personal experience from using Mazzer or Rocky and some other brand what is the better choice IMHO and (importantly) why....

    Cheers
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  48. #48
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Site sponsor jetblack have a mazzer mini doser model on their website for $929.
    Pretty sure if you shop around, you will find several places that sell them for under $800...

    Whether you think Mazzer are good value or not, is heavily dependent on the criteria from which you make a purchasing decision. Like GB says, they are work-horses and built to take it. Should parts ever be required (other than burr-sets), then these can be obtained from pretty well any specialist retailer around the country; not many other manufacturers can make this claim. Yes, there are a lot more grinder manufacturers out there now competing for the home users' dollar; one makes a choice and parts with the necessary cash to satisfy one's needs... Not difficult.

    Mal.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdunster View Post


    Is the OP using the correct portafilter / basket configuration ? My guess is he's not using the pressurised basket with the two-way pin configuration.
    We've had a few in for repair at work and never had any issues with ground coffee unless we used the wrong basket configuration - then it poured too fast and tasted very bitter.
    Hi Tdunster - thanks for sharing this. Just wondering about a couple of things with regards to the video. Some on this site are bagging the double walled pressurised filter cup saying it produces "fake Crema" whatever that means. While others seem to swear by it. Then again, Gaggia themselves don't seem to sell the pressurised filter cup with their Gaggia classic machine. At least not with the one my friend bought. So what do the snobsters on this thread think of it? To creama or not too creama?

  50. #50
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blincy View Post
    Hi Tdunster - thanks for sharing this. Just wondering about a couple of things with regards to the video. Some on this site are bagging the double walled pressurised filter cup saying it produces "fake Crema" whatever that means. While others seem to swear by it. Then again, Gaggia themselves don't seem to sell the pressurised filter cup with their Gaggia classic machine. At least not with the one my friend bought. So what do the snobsters on this thread think of it? To creama or not too creama?
    Some swear by the double walled pressurized portafilter/basket?????? Who?!?!?!?!? The only people I've ever seen who like it are newbies to the espresso scene who have no idea what real espresso is.


    Java "Fake says it all!" phile
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