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Thread: Lelit Combi with or without PID

  1. #1
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    Lelit Combi with or without PID

    First time poster. Used to work heavily in the coffee industry in Vancouver before moving to Australia. Long hiatus from coffee but can finally afford (just) to get into it.
    I got a nespresso creatista for Christmas, and I'm hating every minute of it. I'm desperately trying to sell it on gumtree, eBay, facebook, any other places??

    Been looking at the Lelit Combi for a while, it suits my budget or a sub-$1500 machine. I really liked the look of the new oscar 2 but with a decent grinder plus tamper, box, mat, etc I'm looking at over $2kmfor that setup. Well over for me.

    Do do I go with the Combi with/without PID? Jet black has it for around $200 difference, just wanting people's experiences on this.

    Also can anyone with the Lelit comment on this boiler recharge I've read about? How long does this take? Is it necessary? What's the point?

    as someone who is buying this machine mainly for a weekday morning, pre-work coffee, anything I can do to minimize the coffee work and maximize my sleep is ideal

  2. #2
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Hi there,
    I really recommend separate units.
    Look at a PL41TEMD and seperate Lelit grinder for just under $1500.
    Link: www.kbean.com.au/lelit-machines/
    Cheers, Paul

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    Any reason in particular?
    Looks like the grinders are the same but they'd be physically detached

  4. #4
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    Everyone has there preference when it comes to "combi" or not to "combi". Here is my list of pros/cons:

    For the combi (Lelit 42EMI/42TEMD):
    * cleaner (ground coffee falls onto the drip tray - not your kitchen bench)
    * more compact
    * less expensive
    * easier to transport

    For separates (eg Lelit 41LEM/41TEMD and 43MMI grinder)
    * if a service/repair is required on the machine or grinder the other is still available for use
    * can put the grinder away if space is really tight
    * upgrade grinder or machine without upgrading the other
    * choice of grinders besides the 43MMI (the grinder in the 42EMI and 42TEMD)
    * coffee in grinder hopper not subjected to the heat of the machine

    Our view:
    We love how clean and compact the combi is. Using a traditional machine and grinder will always be messier than an automatic or pod, but the combi virtually eliminates the ground coffee mess. We recommend not leaving coffee in the grinder overnight whether it is stand alone or built in because this will cause staling of the coffee. Therefore the heat of the machine should not be a factor in staling the coffee in a combi. Also, the conical burr grinder in the combi (43MMI) produces great tasting shots and is one of the more forgiving grinders to use.

    charlie
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    First time poster. Used to work heavily in the coffee industry in Vancouver before moving to Australia. Long hiatus from coffee but can finally afford (just) to get into it.
    I got a nespresso creatista for Christmas, and I'm hating every minute of it. I'm desperately trying to sell it on gumtree, eBay, facebook, any other places??

    Been looking at the Lelit Combi for a while, it suits my budget or a sub-$1500 machine. I really liked the look of the new oscar 2 but with a decent grinder plus tamper, box, mat, etc I'm looking at over $2kmfor that setup. Well over for me.

    Do do I go with the Combi with/without PID? Jet black has it for around $200 difference, just wanting people's experiences on this.

    Also can anyone with the Lelit comment on this boiler recharge I've read about? How long does this take? Is it necessary? What's the point?

    as someone who is buying this machine mainly for a weekday morning, pre-work coffee, anything I can do to minimize the coffee work and maximize my sleep is ideal
    The PID:
    * improves brew water temperature stability. This is a marginal gain. If you've nailed your technique and especially if you drink strong or black coffee you will likely appreciate the better, more consistent flavour of the coffee due to having a PID controller. Think about it as adding the last few percentage points to the overall quality of the shot
    * gives good feedback on the temperature of the boiler and whether or not it is in steam mode. At a glance, you can tell whether the temperature of the boiler is where you want it. In steam mode, it alternates between the temperature of the boiler and "STM".
    * allows you to alter the brew water temperature. Few people actually do, but if you want to tinker it's there.
    * increases steam consistency and strength. Versus the normal thermostat the PID is more responsive and energises the boiler with less delay when steaming so that steam pressure doesn't drop off as much as it would with a thermostat.

    The boiler recharge is generally required on a single boiler machine including the Lelit 42EMI and 42TEMD. In steam mode, the water boils to create steam. After steaming, you will need to turn the pump on to refill the boiler. It takes about 20 seconds.

    In terms of maximising sleep, the Lelits do a good job because they have one of the quicker warm up times in their class (10 minutes. 5 if you're in a hurry and don't mind that your shot will be a little under done ...)

    charlie
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    The PID:
    * improves brew water temperature stability. This is a marginal gain. If you've nailed your technique and especially if you drink strong or black coffee you will likely appreciate the better, more consistent flavour of the coffee due to having a PID controller. Think about it as adding the last few percentage points to the overall quality of the shot
    * gives good feedback on the temperature of the boiler and whether or not it is in steam mode. At a glance, you can tell whether the temperature of the boiler is where you want it. In steam mode, it alternates between the temperature of the boiler and "STM".
    * allows you to alter the brew water temperature. Few people actually do, but if you want to tinker it's there.
    * increases steam consistency and strength. Versus the normal thermostat the PID is more responsive and energises the boiler with less delay when steaming so that steam pressure doesn't drop off as much as it would with a thermostat.

    The boiler recharge is generally required on a single boiler machine including the Lelit 42EMI and 42TEMD. In steam mode, the water boils to create steam. After steaming, you will need to turn the pump on to refill the boiler. It takes about 20 seconds.

    In terms of maximising sleep, the Lelits do a good job because they have one of the quicker warm up times in their class (10 minutes. 5 if you're in a hurry and don't mind that your shot will be a little under done ...)

    charlie

    Cheers Charlie, helpful as always. I think I'm sold on the PID, if anything it may improve resale value in the future as well when I'm ready to really splash out (but thats well well well in the future).

    A quick question, I played around with my friends Lelit Combi on Thursday. He has the non-PID version.

    One thing he commented on was the grinder. We adjusted the knob on the side of the machine to get a fine grind, however when actually grinding the beans the hopper seems to rotate on the top of the machine. As an example: I can see the 3, 2, 1 numbers on the grinder, but when the beans are going through the grinder and then the grinding stops, you can see that the 3, 2, 1 has shifted maybe a few millimetres.

    We were wondering whether this was changing the grind, or if its just the hopper rattling around with no change in the grind settings. A bit odd if thats the case, as the numbers are definitely shifting.

    I think he's going to email you about it. We couldn't get shots to run for longer than about 17s without a lot of blonding but I suspect the beans may have been the culprit in the end, the weight was consistent (pre and post extraction) and we'd increased the fineness quite a bit. Just curious if you've heard this from other (or experienced yourself) or if his machine may be a one off case

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    As an example: I can see the 3, 2, 1 numbers on the grinder, but when the beans are going through the grinder and then the grinding stops, you can see that the 3, 2, 1 has shifted maybe a few millimetres.

    We were wondering whether this was changing the grind, or if its just the hopper rattling around with no change in the grind settings. A bit odd if thats the case, as the numbers are definitely shifting.
    Probably just the 'backlash' between the worm and crown gears as the stationary burr responds to the application of torque. You may be able to adjust this out by shifting the worm gear closer to the crown gear but you need to retain a little backlash in order to avoid preloading the gears and thereby accelerating wear and tear...

    Mal.

  8. #8
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    Might also be a slightly loose hopper. You can rotate the hopper and this won't affect the grind. It sounds like your coffee was beyond it's best. You'll get a good sized double out of the Lelit double basket with some of the fresh stuff!

    charlie
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  9. #9
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    Told the plunge and bought the combi with PID
    arriving on Tuesday!
    cant believe how fast the shipping from Jetblack is!!

    now I need to find a source for good quality beans without [further] breaking the bank.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    You can get them right here, freshly delivered to your door!


    Java "BeanBay" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    Cheers
    would love to find and support a local adelaide roaster first off though if I can

  12. #12
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Very highly recommended is "Fiefy's Speciality Cafe", a client of our beloved Grand Poobah as it happens...

    Can be found in two locations (at least) in and around Adelaide...

    Mal.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    Told the plunge and bought the combi with PID
    arriving on Tuesday!
    cant believe how fast the shipping from Jetblack is!!
    Congrats on the purchase. The combi is such great value. Enjoy it

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Very highly recommended is "Fiefy's Speciality Cafe", a client of our beloved Grand Poobah as it happens...

    Can be found in two locations (at least) in and around Adelaide...

    Mal.
    Thanks! I've actually been looking into this! Just haven't had a chance to physically go there yet. AusPost tells me it should be delivered today, so may be making a trip there on the weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Congrats on the purchase. The combi is such great value. Enjoy it
    Thanks! Very excited! Just wish my custom RB tamper I had made years ago would fit, but I am pretty sure it's the wrong basket size, I bought it in 09 when I was working. Just nostalgia
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  15. #15
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    Got my machine, very happy, AND my old custom tamper fits!! Even happier!

    Just want to make sure I'm using it properly. When it arrived from Jetblack it had been primed and testing so I assume the grinder had been set based on their beans, and since I got a sample pack of their beans when I did grind it it extracted really well.
    The question I have though is regarding the hopper, as mentioned above when using a friends machine. I don't understand how the numbers on the hopper at the top correlate to the dial on the side of the machine, because as I was moving and setting up the machine, that hopper clearly rotated and I don't think the large numbers on the plastic are the same as what they were in the box.

    Also, here's how I do the coffee

    1. Turn the machine on, switch to the coffee icon, pump off
    2. Steam wand pointed inside a milk jug
    3. Grind the magic beans
    4. Extra magic beans
    5. Switch pump to steam - PID starts to increase in number and caps out around 124 deg
    6. While that is happening I'm filling milk jugs
    7. Open steam want, let water out until its "dry" steam coming out - watch as my bench fills up with steam and looks magical
    8. Steam milk
    9. Reprime boiler with the instructions from Jetblack

    Is that about right for how I should be working this thing?

    My partner and I both like a strong coffee and I think even with the double basket, we'll probably need both shots rather than the one each (so 2x 18g extractions).
    1. Is it ok to pull the two shots then steam two milks consecutively?
    2. Do I need to reprime the boiler (ie. reduce the temperature) after steaming a milk if I am planning on steaming another milk again immediately?

    I wont be making more than two coffees at any given time in the morning

    Thanks! Sorry for all the questions.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    Got my machine, very happy, AND my old custom tamper fits!! Even happier!

    Just want to make sure I'm using it properly. When it arrived from Jetblack it had been primed and testing so I assume the grinder had been set based on their beans, and since I got a sample pack of their beans when I did grind it it extracted really well.
    The question I have though is regarding the hopper, as mentioned above when using a friends machine. I don't understand how the numbers on the hopper at the top correlate to the dial on the side of the machine, because as I was moving and setting up the machine, that hopper clearly rotated and I don't think the large numbers on the plastic are the same as what they were in the box.
    The numbers on the hopper don't really mean anything. If the hopper rotates it won't change the grind. If you turn the grind adjusting knob on the RHS of the machine the grind will change (and also the hopper will rotate).

    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    Also, here's how I do the coffee

    1. Turn the machine on, switch to the coffee icon, pump off
    ok, but the machine should already be on the coffee icon - try to leave it on this setting as the default
    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    2. Steam wand pointed inside a milk jug
    3. Grind the magic beans
    4. Extra magic beans
    5. Switch pump to steam - PID starts to increase in number and caps out around 124 deg
    6. While that is happening I'm filling milk jugs
    7. Open steam want, let water out until its "dry" steam coming out - watch as my bench fills up with steam and looks magical
    8. Steam milk
    9. Reprime boiler with the instructions from Jetblack

    Is that about right for how I should be working this thing?
    spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    My partner and I both like a strong coffee and I think even with the double basket, we'll probably need both shots rather than the one each (so 2x 18g extractions).
    Yes, for strong coffee use the double basket to make one coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    1. Is it ok to pull the two shots then steam two milks consecutively?
    yes
    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post

    2. Do I need to reprime the boiler (ie. reduce the temperature) after steaming a milk if I am planning on steaming another milk again immediately?
    You don't have to reprime the boiler between steaming for each coffee. Just reprime after steaming for two coffees.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathiar View Post
    I wont be making more than two coffees at any given time in the morning

    Thanks! Sorry for all the questions.
    No worries. Enjoy,

    charlie
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  17. #17
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    Thanks!

    I actually do keep the setting on the coffee icon the whole time, was just checking this was the correct order

    The next few weeks are going to be very exciting

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