Results 1 to 42 of 42
Like Tree10Likes
  • 1 Post By BeanieWeanie
  • 1 Post By BeanieWeanie
  • 1 Post By noidle22
  • 1 Post By noidle22
  • 1 Post By artman
  • 1 Post By Dimal
  • 1 Post By MrJack
  • 1 Post By LeroyC
  • 2 Post By LeroyC

Thread: Nemox - Can't Reach Temp

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21

    Nemox - Can't Reach Temp

    Instead of writing a convoluted post, what's the most common reason a machine (Nemox, Lelit, Rancilio Silvia) won't reach it's thermostat's top temp? I have a 140F thermostat in my Nemox Caffe' Del Opera and am currently only reaching 120 at best. Bad thermostat? If so, can I swap it out for one from a Lelit and possibly increase it to say 160-165?

  2. #2
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,513
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieWeanie View Post
    Instead of writing a convoluted post, what's the most common reason a machine (Nemox, Lelit, Rancilio Silvia) won't reach it's thermostat's top temp? I have a 140F thermostat in my Nemox Caffe' Del Opera and am currently only reaching 120 at best. Bad thermostat? If so, can I swap it out for one from a Lelit and possibly increase it to say 160-165?
    I wouldn't replace it with a thermostat that has a set point 20 plus degrees higher, that could cause all sorts of trouble. If you're sure it's the thermostat that's the problem just replace it with one the same. Your machine will be designed to work with the thermostat that's installed in it, so I wouldn't go playing with that too much without professional guidance.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks Leroy. Understood.

    I've uploaded a couple images. Would you mind pointing out the thermostat to me?

    IMG_0019.jpgIMG_6930.jpg

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    131
    Right hand side, the two bits with black plastic cylinders on top. One will be brew and the other steam. they might even be labelled for temperature (102ish and 145)

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,391
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieWeanie View Post
    I have a 140F thermostat in my Nemox Caffe' Del Opera and am currently only reaching 120 at best. Bad thermostat? If so, can I swap it out for one from a Lelit and possibly increase it to say 160-165?[/COLOR]
    You sure these are marked Deg.F...
    Reckon (if you're in Oz or NZ) that it will be Deg.C and that you should not be experiencing any issues, in the cup where it counts....

    Mal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,513
    Yeah, what Timmy said. But before we go any further, what exactly is going on? Where are you getting this 120deg measurement? And what problems are you experiencing?

  7. #7
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    Yep as above, two on the right side of the boiler are brew and steam thermostats, from memory (covered by wiring in your pic) the one on the bottom has a resetable button poking out and is the over temp switch/fuse. Mine had the temps on them.

    Nothing wrong with replacing the steam one for a higher temp version from a current lelit if you want more steam mumbo (same machines boiler wise).

    Cheers

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    The problem that I'm having with the machine is heat.

    I'm reading my temps with a liquid thermometer that's in fahrenheit.

    When the machine was working correctly I'd only have to wait 10 minutes at most for everything to get to operating temp. It would also make a thumping sound like a water heater warming up which it no longer does. Yesterday, after months of sitting on my counter unused, I turned it on and let it warm up for about 30 minutes. I then pulled water only through the group and got the 120F.

    Today I waited that 10 minutes and gave it another try. Both the group and steam gave me a temp only slightly above room temperature. Obviously the problem's sporadic.

    The machine currently has it's top removed and while it was warming up I touched the thermostats and various other parts in the machine which were at room temp only. No sounds or any hints that it was actually warming up. There's also a light at the front panel that turns off when the machine is ready which never did so.

    Not that it matters, but after 6 months of ownership a thermostat went bad. Since it was under warranty they repaired it, but the tech replaced the 145F original with a 165F thermostat. I can't recall which of the two thermostats was replaced.

    Months ago when the current problems began I replaced the over temperature fuse, which obviously didn't help.

    Also, just as a note, the machine was cleaned about every month and a half with Cafiza and only filtered water was ever used.

    Since nothing's getting hot, could it be the boiler?
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 6th May 2017 at 01:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    165F is only 74C? 145F is even lower. Something isn't right with your numbers.

    When you turned on the machine for the first time after months of no use, did you prime the boiler straight away? If the boiler was not full, you might have cooked the boiler element, which could explain your low temps. the boiler should be too hot to touch at brew temp.

    You could let machine warm up fully, unplug then check for continuity across the temp sensors, all three should have continuity (unplug one lead on each). You an also monitor power to the element but 240 volts can kill.

    Does the heating light above the steam know come on? From memory that is wired in parallel with the heating element, so if that is on and you are still not getting heat then I would suspect it is the element. Likewise you can activate steam and it should get even hotter, this will eliminate the brew sensor.

    Cheers

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks artman. Hopefully the following help. If not, please let me know what more to provide.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    165F is only 74C? 145F is even lower. Something isn't right with your numbers.
    Can I take a pic of something to get rid of any confusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    When you turned on the machine for the first time after months of no use, did you prime the boiler straight away? If the boiler was not full, you might have cooked the boiler element, which could explain your low temps. the boiler should be too hot to touch at brew temp.
    Yes, I primed it first.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    You could let machine warm up fully, unplug then check for continuity across the temp sensors, all three should have continuity (unplug one lead on each).
    I turned the machine on for 10 minutes, which is what it used to take to "warm up fully". Then unplugged and ran a continuity test on both thermostats which turned out fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    You an also monitor power to the element but 240 volts can kill.
    Ya, I'd rather not go there.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Does the heating light above the steam know come on?
    Yes, it comes on and doesn't turn off as it used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    From memory that is wired in parallel with the heating element, so if that is on and you are still not getting heat then I would suspect it is the element.
    If it is the element will the one that I remove have spec's and maybe a number on it for me to match up to a Lelit? The innards are the same in the Lelit and a few others. After reading a couple threads today including this one, it came down to the this element, but just want to be sure before ordering.

    I also found an online repair guide to help me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Likewise you can activate steam and it should get even hotter, this will eliminate the brew sensor.
    Not sure what you mean here. If you're asking me if the steam is the same low temp as the group then yes it is.

    Besides the boiler's O-ring and the element would you recommend doing anything else if I do tear the machine down?
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 6th May 2017 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

  11. #11
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    If light is not turning off then it means the element is getting continuous power but just not heating up.

    You can pull it out and check it visually. You can also measure the resistance across its terminals.

    As far as I know the lelit and nemox elements are the same.

    Pretty sure there is also a seal at each element terminal at the boiler. I would also change the group seal.

    Cheers

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    You can pull it out and check it visually.
    What should I be looking for? Corosion? Deposits? ?

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    You can also measure the resistance across its terminals.
    The same test as earlier, continuity? Sorry to ask, I never understood electrical, yet I pick up what I can online.

    Edit: With the element still installed I tested the continuity across terminals and got a -343. I'll do the same test once I have it out, but is this an additional indicator that it's bad?
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 6th May 2017 at 10:57 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    The water pump is rated at 120V, is this coffee machine being run on 120v?

    Regards,

    Matt

  14. #14
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,391
    How are you measuring your brew water temperature?
    In-stream measurement under the Group is hopelessly inadequate to be of any actual use as a reference...

    Suggest you have a read through this post to give you a better idea of what is required.
    The right (group) water temperature?

    Mal.

  15. #15
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieWeanie View Post
    What should I be looking for? Corosion? Deposits? ?
    I would look for discolouration, blistering etc. Pretty sure the coffeeco website had some pics of bad elements (was a few years ago I had a look).

    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieWeanie View Post
    The same test as earlier, continuity? Sorry to ask, I never understood electrical, yet I pick up what I can online.

    Edit: With the element still installed I tested the continuity across terminals and got a -343. I'll do the same test once I have it out, but is this an additional indicator that it's bad?
    Resistance = (volts*volts)/power

    This will give you an approximation of the resistance reading you should be getting across the element terminals.

    Is your machine 240 or 120volts? Are you talking farenheit or celcius? This will clear up confusion.

    Cheers

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyRay View Post
    The water pump is rated at 120V, is this coffee machine being run on 120v?
    Yes, that's standard here.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    How are you measuring your brew water temperature?
    Thanks for your reply Mal, With a thermometer and a coffee cup. The 120F was a fluke the other day, everything since has been cold, room temperature, both from the group and steam. The 120F was probably due to the period it's been down, but that's just a guess. Again, nothing inside gets hot either and I no longer hear the machine warming up as I had for near 10 years.

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    I would look for discolouration, blistering etc. Pretty sure the coffeeco website had some pics of bad elements (was a few years ago I had a look).
    Cool I'll look for it. This is the same place I found the guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Resistance = (volts*volts)/power

    This will give you an approximation of the resistance reading you should be getting across the element terminals.
    If this is a test that the machine has to have power running through it, I'll have to research it as I obviously don't want to do it wrong and end up with a wild afro. I'm uncertain as to how to set the meter. [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Is your machine 240 or 120volts? Are you talking farenheit or celcius? This will clear up confusion.
    120v, plugged into a standard outlet here in the U.S. and Fahrenheit as I'm not familiar with C, but will convert with an online calculator if necessary. Whatever makes it easier as I appreciate the help.

  19. #19
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    The resistance measurement is with machine unplugged and element disconnected. If you are not familiar with electrics best to leave to experts and avoid the afro!

    Sounds like your machine is telling the element to heat up (light on always) but its not getting there, ie switches and thermostats seem ok. I thought elements generally either work or dont, not just work partially to give warm instead of hot? Maybe someone else can chime in.

    Cheers

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    The resistance measurement is with machine unplugged and element disconnected. If you are not familiar with electrics best to leave to experts and avoid the afro!
    Finding a so called expert in my area has been a no go for months, unless I'm willing to ship to NY, which wouldn't make $$ sense. Seem guys around here only work on restaurant machines or tell you to throw it away and replace it with some cheap piece of garbage. This is why the machine's been down so long and why I've finally given up trying to locate an "expert" and instead do it myself. If I mess up the machine worse case I continue on with the mocha pot that we've grown used to. I just hate the fact of this machine sitting on my kitchen counter like a large paper weight.

    If the power is off to do this test I shouldn't have a problem doing it. If I have to watch a dozen and 1 Youtube videos on the subject to make sure I do it right, I'll do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    Sounds like your machine is telling the element to heat up (light on always) but its not getting there, ie switches and thermostats seem ok. I thought elements generally either work or dont, not just work partially to give warm instead of hot? Maybe someone else can chime in.
    I may just tear it down and have a look at the element as it's just sitting unusable anyway. At the least, I'll give everything a good cleaning and who knows maybe learn a thing or two. I'll post what I find, but it may be a few days.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    I thought elements generally either work or dont, not just work partially to give warm instead of hot?

    Cheers
    Correct, this is pretty much always the case.

    To the OP, a possible cause is a poor connection to the element, thermostat etc. this can often be indicated by a discoloured connection, often black or blue in colour.

    Another tip, when measuring a part for resistance, it is usually best to completely disconnect it to stop the possibility of other items in the machine from affecting the reading.

    Regards,

    Matt.

  22. #22
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyRay View Post
    To the OP, a possible cause is a poor connection to the element, thermostat etc. this can often be indicated by a discoloured connection, often black or blue in colour.
    I've looked at all the connections and found none as you described. I have, however, found that most of the plastic that shields the actual connectors have become brittle. One crumbled when I was attempting to disconnect it. I wrapped it with electrical tape to avoid a possible short/arc, is that okay? The actual metal connectors seem fine as far as I can tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyRay View Post
    Another tip, when measuring a part for resistance, it is usually best to completely disconnect it to stop the possibility of other items in the machine from affecting the reading.
    Not to be anal, just clear, when you say "disconnect it" are you meaning to completely remove it and then test it? Or in this case are you saying to leave the element installed, yet disconnect all it's connectors at the terminals?

    Tony

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    G'day Tony,

    The hard plastic insulation on coffee machine terminals can tend to get brittle over time, but electrical tape may not last very long due to the heat. Perhaps some heat shrink over the connector would be a better option. Another option is to use some high temperature silicone impregnated fibreglass sleeving over the area.

    Regarding disconnecting the parts, they can be left on the machine, but make sure the terminals are not connected to other parts. If someone knows what they are doing, then yes it is possible to test a lot of parts in circuit, but if you are not sure, the best way is to electrically disconnect the part.

    Cheers,

    Matt

  24. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyRay View Post
    G'day Tony,

    The hard plastic insulation on coffee machine terminals can tend to get brittle over time, but electrical tape may not last very long due to the heat. Perhaps some heat shrink over the connector would be a better option. Another option is to use some high temperature silicone impregnated fibreglass sleeving over the area.

    Regarding disconnecting the parts, they can be left on the machine, but make sure the terminals are not connected to other parts. If someone knows what they are doing, then yes it is possible to test a lot of parts in circuit, but if you are not sure, the best way is to electrically disconnect the part.

    Cheers,

    Matt
    Thanks Matt. I do have plenty of heat shrink tubing, thanks for the reminder. Excuse the senior moment.

    I'll start tearing it down tomorrow and see what we come up with.

    You guys are a real awesome bunch. Thanks
    MattyRay likes this.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    Hi Tony,

    Is there any way you could post or link an electrical wiring diagram for your exact machine? If possible to do this, it would assist greatly with long distance fault finding :-)

    Regards,

    Matt

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    BTW not sure if this might be your problem, but I found this thread below:

    Nemox Dell Opera Manual

    Matt

  27. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks again Matt. I'm pretty sure I've been priming it correctly, but I'll give this another shot in the morning.

    I don't have a diagram/schematic. The machine is a Nemox Caffe Dell Opera. It's mostly the same as the Lelit PL042 Combi.
    MattyRay likes this.

  28. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Okay, first thing this morning I did as advised and primed it, but I could tell that it was already full by the sound. Then I moved on to test the temperature.

    Long version:
    Instead of your advised warm up time of 15 minutes I walked away and while having my morning cup from my Mocha Pot I forgot about the machine. It ended up warming for 1/2 hour. I felt the boiler which was hot, but not extreme. I then drew about 1/2 cup of water from the group which turned out to be about 43C (yes I found a celcius thermometer). I then attempted steam which wasn't possible probably due of the low temp. Steam starts at 100C. From the steam wand I drew some water that turned out to be about 38C. I drew a total of about a cup of water total at this point. Seems the more water I drew the lower the temp would go as it didn't have enough time to heat more. 20 minutes later (now 50 minutes total) I attempted steam again and still got nothing, but the water from the steam wand was at 43C, same as what I pulled from the group earlier. The boiler was again hot, but not extreme. After an additional 20 minutes (now 1 hour 10 minutes) slight warming up sounds starting from the boiler which has become almost too hot to touch. After 1.5 hours the light remained on with the boiler still making sounds as though it's warming up, but still not these almost knocking sounds that I used to hear. 7 minutes later I drew a 3/4 cup of water from the group which came out at 50C. I then turned the machine off.

    Short version:
    After 1 hour 37 minutes the machine reached 50C. The temp light remained on.

    What would cause the machine to take so long to warm up and yet still never reach the appropriate temp? Would a bad element act this way? Something else?
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 8th May 2017 at 04:14 AM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    I would guess element or wiring/connections leading up to it including switches.

    Easiest way to confirm element issue would be to direct wire power to it and see if you get it hot enough but obviously that's best done by someone that can play with mains power.

    Cheers

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    Could you redo the element continuity test, and double check the readings? Make sure to disconnect the element first though... Maybe also touch the leads of the meter together before you do so to test the meter, it should read zero ohms, or very close to it.

    Cheers,

    Matt

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bathurst
    Posts
    856
    I've got one of these machines with me at the moment for repair, I can do some checks and report my findings so you can compare.
    MattyRay likes this.

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bathurst
    Posts
    856
    Boiler start temp - 15C
    Boiler stop temp - 105C (Peaked to 110C)
    Total time: 1m 40s

    Thermostat cut in - 89C
    Thermostat cut out - 99C

    The brew thermostat should be 105C I believe. The writing on mine has been smudged so it can't be clearly seen but I think it says 105C.

    Steam temp start - 100C
    Steam thermostat cut out - 134C

    Total time: 50s

    Steam thermostat cut in: 111C
    Heated to 118C steadily during steaming.

    The boiler element is 52 ohm.

    If you're having problems with both brew and steam temperatures than I would think the problem would be a component that is common to both.
    This is the switches, wiring or element.
    The element may well be the problem. It is unusual for an element to not perform very well, usually they short or go open circuit. First time for everything though.
    MattyRay likes this.

  33. #33
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Casula, NSW
    Posts
    418
    I have seen elements (not in coffee machines though) do that, where essentially only part of the element works and it doesn't reach temp. Pretty rare but I've seen it on a stove when I was growing up and in industry a couple of times (extruders etc).
    Last edited by level3ninja; 10th May 2017 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Autocorrect

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyRay View Post
    Could you redo the element continuity test, and double check the readings? Make sure to disconnect the element first though... Maybe also touch the leads of the meter together before you do so to test the meter, it should read zero ohms, or very close to it.

    Cheers,

    Matt
    Sorry all, I had to go out of town yesterday and just got back.

    Matt, Out of habit with my meter I do touch the leads together to make sure it's working correctly. I did so this time and yes I got zero. With my ohm meter set to 2000 and nothing connected to the terminals I get 1100 and then it slowly climbs 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, etc. Am I doing the test correctly? Is the element good or bad with a reading such as this? I'm itching to open this thing up and get rid of the mystery.


    noidle22, Thanks for doing those readings. I really appreciate your time. What's your meter set to? Just want to make sure I have the same to compare? Also I have no absolute way of measuring degrees, just a typical frothing thermometer. Either way the machine takes forever (see above) to get warm, but never to where it should be.


  35. #35
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,006
    Bugger, was just about finished writing a long response and it disappeared!

    The resistance you are looking for is low, so the lowest setting on your multi meter should be fine. If you get a 1, go the next higher setting.

    Keep in mind the values for your 120v machine will likely be different to the 240v machine provided above.

    The heat lamp is on all the time which would indicate your element is getting power (they are wired in parallel), its just not heating properly and never turns off as you are not reaching the correct temp for the thermostat to turn off power. You cold confirm by measuring the voltage at the element to rule out voltage drop of dodgy wiring/switch but this can kill you if you aren't suitably skilled etc.

    To me it sounds like your element is shot. These are simple machines with bugger all components, everything else seems to be ok from what you are saying.

    Cheers
    MattyRay likes this.

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Adelaide, SA
    Posts
    131
    Agreed, 1100 ohms for an element means there is a problem. For a 120v machine I'd expect to see, at a guess, around 10-15 ohms for a good element.

    Regards,

    Matt.

  37. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Okay, so this is what I've found; a hard build up of sandy feeling crap. Nothing smells rancid at all and the element is solid with no signs of corrosion, just this buildup. We were using the machine twice a day everyday and I clean with Cafiza powder. Could this be a buildup of Cafiza and that I'm not rinsing well enough after a cleaning? I usually wait until the water runs clear or at-least I thought I was. Guesses?

    What can I soak theses parts in to get them clean and once soft what could I use to clean/brush it with, maybe a toothbrush? Can I use a white vinegar to soak with? Or should I just soak in the Cafiza or simply hot water and then brush?

    What other parts of the machine could possibly have this buildup?

    Just as a note the thermostats are 125C and 95c


    01.jpg02.jpg03.jpg04.jpg
    SaveSave
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 11th May 2017 at 04:24 AM.

  38. #38
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,391
    Hmmm...

    That could be a buildup of Cafiza or more likely Scale that is peculiar to your specific water supply.
    Given that this product is a Backflushing Detergent, you really only need to use this at most, about once per week/fortnight in a domestic situation. Also, even though the manufacturer recommends to use about a teaspoon per Backflushing session, I'd recommend cutting that back to about teaspoon. That's all I've been using for the past 15 years or so and is perfect. The Groups on the various machines I've owned and used over the years are always bright, shiny and clean inside.

    Also, if it turns out to be a buildup of Cafiza how are you using this exactly; none of it should ever find its way back into the Boiler....

    Mal.
    artman likes this.

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,316
    Agreed. Looks to be something that has precipitated out of the water. If it was the backflush detergent, you would expect it to be water soluble...

    That build-up would probably also be reducing the rate of heat transfer from your element - potentially making the element run hotter and the boiler take longer to heat.
    Dimal likes this.

  40. #40
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,513
    Now that's what I call a good scale build up!! You really need to get rid of that and I'd recommend using a proper descaling liquid. There are commercial non-machine specific ones that'll work but it's probably better to use a coffee machine specific one. If you cant find one locally you'll be able to get something online from one of the well known US coffee supplies retailers like Cafe Parts. Cafiza make one, but there are other brands too. They all work slightly differently, but basically you'll be making a solution to soak those parts in.
    Things have probably been like that for a while and the machine has been coping, but it's just reached the tipping point where there's too much build up on and around the element. Do you know anything about the mineral content of your water supply? And do you use any kind of filtration? Whatever level of filtration you currently have is obviously not enough so I'd be investigating some kind of under bench, in-line water filter/softener if I were you.
    So at this point you need to clean everything and then recheck it all. You might find you don't actually need any new parts, just some new seals.
    Dimal likes this.

  41. #41
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thank-you all.

    Would Durgol Swiss Espresso Special Decalcifier Liquid Solution work for soaking these parts in? Or would Full Circle Coffee and Espresso Equipment Descaling Liquid be better? They both seem good for cleaning a machine, but I'm curious about the task at hand. With either product, how much would I need? Also, how long would you recommend soaking for to start? Would I be better off with food grade citric acid?

    We've always used our refrigerator water since it's filtered and we change the filter whenever the light comes on within a day or two. For now should we simply use bottled distilled water? Then come up with a better under the sink system.

    Could any other parts of the machine be affected other than what's connected to the boiler?

    Tony
    Last edited by BeanieWeanie; 12th May 2017 at 04:19 AM.

  42. #42
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Woodend, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,513
    I'm sure either of those descalers will be fine. I've been told liquid concentrates tend to be better, but that may have just been because that's all they had where I bought some from.
    The filtered water from your fridge won't be softening your tap water sufficiently for use with your coffee machine. It's certainly better than nothing and would be similar to the level of filtration a Brita jug would provide, but the evidence certainly indicates it's not doing much in the way of softening. Coffee machines should be fed water that has been both filtered and softened, so an under bench set up that achieves both of these things is what you want. There's a few good threads here on Coffee Snobs about water filtration, they're definitely worth checking out.
    If you want to use bottled water in the meantime you're best to use bottled mineral water rather than distilled water.
    BeanieWeanie and level3ninja like this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •