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Reply With QuoteThere's your problem. Use non-pressurized baskets and fresh roasted coffee ground immediately prior to brewing.Originally Posted by booge
Java "Fresh!" phile
Hi all, first time poster. Just purchased a refurbished "as new" em7000 from Sunbeam outlet. First one was returned as hot water tap on machine turned on water to the group head. Second machine seems fine. I have pre ground Lavazza coffee at home and am using pressurized 1 and 2 cup filters. The coffee pressure gauge only makes it about half way to the optimal orange zone. I've tried slightly different doses and tamping softer or harder but still no luck. Is this still do with grind size? Or do I have another dud machine?
There's your problem. Use non-pressurized baskets and fresh roasted coffee ground immediately prior to brewing.
Java "Fresh!" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
Did I make a rookie error and think the pressurized basket will fix all? Is freshly ground THAT much different?
Yes, and yes.
Java "It it ain't fresh don't use it!" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
Freshly ground AND freshly roasted (less than 2-3 weeks since roasting).
Cheers,
Matt
Okay, Got the grinder. You're right, fresh ground got to correct pressure no probs. However, now I'm slowly going nuts trying to get the right consistency when pulling shots. When the pressure is bang on, the coffee coming out is a tiny trickle, adjust grind to coarser comes out better with slightly less pressure but i can't seem to get that nice thick crema. It doesn't ooze out nicely like the youtube vids I've seen. Ive been persisting with Lavazza whole beans, do i need to up the quality of my beans to achieve that rich crema or is is it a grind and tamp issue???
In a nutshell, yes you do
I was reading along feeling sorry for you because I know what it's like chasing the crema, then I read the word "Lavazza" and thought that'll do it. If you're not sure where to get beans, get them from here on BeanBay. Start with the Espresso Wow, see how that goes.
Thanks, I really appreciate the info.
Don't get too fussed if the creama does not ooze out. With fresh bean there should be a nice head of creama. Then there is the taste test. Timing of a ratio of 60 mls in 30 sec is sort of the starting point for grind, tamp and extraction pressure.
Purchased some espresso WOW, awaiting delivery.......
Looking forward to hearing how you go
I joined to follow the thread because I've been having this problem as well: I cannot make a decent coffee with this machine after 3 weeks (I've had the EM6910 for 6+ years without a problem, so I'm really surprised and disappointed).
I've trawled the internet for advice, including the really long thread in this forum about it, but after 100+ attempts with different grind/dose/tamping, I can only get under-extracted and weak or over-extracted and bitter out of it.
I'm using supermarket beans also, with an EM0480 grinder. I appreciate that using fresh beans is better (of course), but if the machine is so precious that I need fresh beans for it to even work, I'll probably take it back.
Really looking forward to the results.
Supermarket beans are hit and miss. If you are using Vittoria mountain grown, throw them out. They pretend to be a $38/kg bean but Coles and Woolies have regular half price sales. My results with Vmg are exactly as you describe. Try Aldi $12/kg and Coles $5/250g, they actually work and taste reasonable.
Tried my first shot of Espresso WOW today after delivery...i was fairly rushed just to see if i could taste anything different. Was disappointed, I'll tinker some more but so far I'm happier with the taste of Lavazza with a pressurised basket (i can hear minds blowing already). I hope to get better results tomorrow.
People will have a better chance of helping you if you could provide some more details re your grind/dosing method (and in a perfect world a video of the shot extraction).
I know this isn't my thread, but for the OP and anyone else reading:
I went and bought freshly roasted beans from a little roasting house.
EM0480: grind setting 7
Dose: mounded, tap, then wiped flat
Tamping: medium, once (I have no idea how heavy that actually is), a little underdosed in the end
Single walled double cup basket
Pressed the auto double cup button
Voila: The coffee pressure came up to the sweet spot, I managed to do it twice in a row, so it wasn't a fluke.
The coffee is slightly bitter, so a bit overextracted, but I can play with that.
TL;DR: Fresh beans worked to fix the coffee pressure (and related over/under extraction) issue.
I appreciate the help from those with experience, thank you.
@ Badcoffee. At the risk of getting flamed, yes fresh beans will increase pressure at the same grind setting, my grinder produces perfect pressure for good tasting supermarket beans (Grinders Crema) at 9 on the grinder screen but requires 17 for fresh beans to extract at the right pressure and 30 second extraction.
Obviously the fresh taste better but newish supermarket beans should work in any machine assuming your grinder will go fine enough and they IMO taste quite acceptable for general use and a million times better than instant
This is from someone who's house hold uses a kilo of beans a week so we use both.
The above setting are on a Breville smart grinder pro and use with a BES920.
Are you pre heating your machine portafilter and basket, I have found that can help smooth out the taste at times.
I WISH this were true for this machine, but I have literally gone through 100+ cups of coffee trying to get the coffee pressure to work right with supermarket beans and nope nope nope.... but newish supermarket beans should work in any machine assuming your grinder will go fine enough and they IMO taste quite acceptable for general use and a million times better than instant
To be fair I used the same pack (Vittoria Organic) for all testing. But with a gazillion of combinations of various grinds, dosing, and tamping, I could NOT get the %$#^$^ to work (not enough pressure or too much pressure and even when I hit the 'sweet spot' for pressure, the coffee was wayyyyy overextracted and bitter).
For the record, I can make perfectly fine coffee with my EM6910 with these same supermarket beans. I expected at least the same kind of functionality with the EM7000, but noooooooo....
This machine is %$#^%$%$ finicky as %$#^%$. <= this is my formal review of the machine :P.
Last edited by badcoffee; 2nd June 2017 at 02:12 PM.
Heh... sorry, I didn't even answer your question: but yes, I preheated.
And to clarify, I wasn't anywhere near the stage of caring about the taste: I have been sitting at the lowest level of 'please please let me have something drinkable' which is pretty sad for a $600+ machine.
Where are you?
I reckon 5 minutes with a knowledgeable fellow snob would sort it. Two possibilities
a) 7000 is faulty
or
b) You need to do... (something different - the 6910 closely emulates typical semi-auto commercial machines to use, the 7000 "does it for you" in its own manner - for better or worse)...
I have both a 6910 and a 7000 (plus three other espresso machines). I prefer the 6910 for everything except the noise level. To my mind the 7000 is a typical half assed automatic - if you don't know how to make coffee they will give you something "more or less" drinkable (even more so with the "auto steam wand" - grrrrr...). The more you know the more the 7000 gets in the way. I did tame mine (a domestic imperative based purely on noise level), however even after 2+ "7000 years" every time I go back to my La Pav 2 group or anyones 6910 I smile. Says it all really.
TampIt
I'm just south of the Gold Coast and I think you are 100% right. I actually advertised on airtasker to pay someone with experience with this %$$^$# machine to come and show me how to make a damn coffee. No takers :/.
I know the machine isn't faulty: I already exchanged it once because I figured it can't possibly be this hard to use, but nope: the replacement is exactly the same.
Ahh, interesting. I'm actually a bit relieved that it's not just me who struggled with it to be honest. The reviews everywhere for the EM7000 are really good and felt like I was some kind of moron for not being able to get it to make a decent cup of coffee.I prefer the 6910 for everything except the noise level.
It really does.every time I go back to my La Pav 2 group or anyones 6910 I smile. Says it all really.
I want to take it back, but I'm pretty sure that they will test it, tell me it's working fine (because it is), and refuse the return. I'm not sure that yelling 'IF IT'S FINE SHOW ME HOW YOU MAKE A ^%$#%$ CUP OF COFFEE WITH IT!' would actually get me very far... :P
Just wondering (with no disrespect intended) - are you a smoker?
Smokers often tend to prefer over roasted and stale beans and overextracted ("burned") coffee as the bitterness means they can actually taste it. 🤔
Everyone I've come across who has claimed "Sydney has better coffee than Melbourne" (yes, people actually say this) has either been an incredibly parochial and defensive Sydney-sider or a smoker (or both, I guess).
/OT
I reckon most people who own this kind of machine have extremely low expectations, by CS standards - and probably there's a bit of justifying their excessive spending to themselves.
If they knew how much we all spend on coffee kit, they'd probably feel better... 😏
This made me laugh so hard.I reckon most people who own this kind of machine have extremely low expectations, by CS standards - and probably there's a bit of justifying their excessive spending to themselves.
I have really ^$^$$#@ low expectations (not even kidding): 'Drinkable' just about covers it right now.
I'm able to get the coffee pressure up into the orange zone with the fresh beans, so that's progress right there, sad as that sounds.
I'm having to stop the double cup pour part of the way through because the pour is too slow so ends up over extracted. One step coarser grind, and I lose the pressure, so then it's under extracted again. So frustrating. So trying same grind, higher dose and heavier tamping now.
Maybe I should take up smoking and I can over extract the hell out of it and it will taste great... :P.
And if anyone is at the Gold Coast, I will pay you money to come and show me how to use this $#@%. I'm serious.
I feel your pain.
As you have already tried to get someone, here is the "quick & dirty" which (hopefully) will get you started. Before any other CS'r's jump in, this is based on a dozen or so 7000's and too many 6910s to count. Ditto EM480s (have posted elsewhere on CS that I regret selling both my 480s as my Varios are poor at coarser grinds). A properly cleaned and set up 480 can do pretty good coffee - it is not the problem in this case (or badcoffee's 6910 would have made crap coffee for years).
1) The 7000 has significantly less shot power than the 6910, and as a direct result will not handle overdosing gracefully. While I appreciate it is easy for me to spend your cash, a decent set of scales to 0.1g accuracy probably saved my sanity (or maintained my current level of craziness, whichever applies).
2) Use your "freshly roasted beans from a little roasting house" - I am assuming their coffee is at least reasonable to your taste (you did try some, didn't you?). I have had very little success with supermarket beans in a 7000 - and they require a quite different set up (Aldi beans possibly excepted - and that may well have been a fluke as they were the same batch at two different friend's parties).
3) Start by getting the dose correct for the basket. Standard 7000 double basket is 16g, single is circa 7.5g (slightly higher than my VST 7 / 7.2g). I suspect you are overdosing (if you haven't already worked that out...). As proof of concept, I would suggest you dose it exactly to spec or just underweight. Consistency is king.
4) Adjust your grinder until you get around a 25 second (NOT counting preinfusion time) shot which weighs around 30g (single basket) or 60g (double basket). As 480s settings are dependent upon shimming / clearances I would guess that it is a lot finer than your current setting. If you run out of adjustment, get shims from SB... they used to be free a few years back.
5) Taste it - it should be a lot better. Then tinker / fine tune to suit your taste buds.
A note: The 6910 / 7000 pressure gauge is only consistent in the sense of giving a repeatable reading. The reading on your machine may well be totally different from anyone elses. When the shot timing and weight is close the coffee should be OK (greatness comes later). Note whatever the gauges reading is at that time and use that as a guide for future tinkering.
Hope this helps.
TampIt
PS: getting decent frothed milk out of a 7000 is a whole 'nother can of worms - retraining old habits probably needed in your case.
Have you tried using fresh roasted beans from a specialty cafe or roaster that are between 4 to 15days post roast?
Sounds like you're using stale beans and that could be your problem.
[QUOTE=badcoffee;608782]I WISH this were true for this machine, but I have literally gone through 100+ cups of coffee trying to get the coffee pressure to work right with supermarket beans and nope nope nope.
To be fair I used the same pack (Vittoria Organic) for all testing.
I knew it, Vittoria beans, say no more. Been there, done that.
Definitely not a smoker!
I've had some more success with the Espresso WOW beans after some tinkering. On the Breville smart grinder I'm on setting of 16 for the grind, with a 10 second grind time....still trying to get the amount just right as I've had some good ones and some that aren't as good.But it's getting there.
10 seconds? Are you using the single basket or double? Those settings strike me as too coarse and maybe not enough time, but the coaser you go the quicker it grinds, and the numbers don't mean the same particle size on different grinders. Have you got close to choking the machine?
This line from Tampit above is the most helpful in this thread I reckon -
"A note: The 6910 / 7000 pressure gauge is only consistent in the sense of giving a repeatable reading. The reading on your machine may well be totally different from anyone elses. When the shot timing and weight is close the coffee should be OK (greatness comes later). Note whatever the gauges reading is at that time and use that as a guide for future tinkering."
I'm constantly amazed at how people are totally transfixed by the little gauge on their Sunbeam or Breville machines. I see it come up so frequently that I feel like starting some sort of campaign to get Sunbeam to remove them from their machines. After owning many different machines over the last decade or so I now have an EM6910. I was making good coffee with it from the start and have continued to improve over the last few weeks. The other day something caught my eye and I thought, "that's right, this thing has a pressure gauge!" I'm not sure how a pressure gauge can be of any use when it lacks a scale of any kind, except maybe in the way that Tampit mentions, or to make sure you don't stuff anything while backflushing the machine.
Hi booge, the following info may be helpful.
I too have the EM7000 with Smart Grinder Pro and as luck would have it I opened a bag of Espresso Wow yesterday (roasted 28/5). I'm only a beginner but I'm getting good shots from this combination,: the shot is oozing out at first and then progressively getting faster.
Remember that you're aiming for around 30 seconds of total extraction time including the pre-infusion. Have you timed the shot at all? Pros can go off colour alone but for novices like us it helps to time the shot.
Now the info you've been looking for:
- I am using grind setting 7/8 at the moment,
- with other coffee I've gone as low as 5 to get a good shot,
- regardless of setting the grind time has always been closer to 20 seconds than to 10 seconds for the double basket. The basket is slightly overfilled at this point
- it's ok for the shot to start with just a trickle, this machine doesn't have a lot of shot power as TampIt confirmed above
Hope this helps.
yes single basket for a 10 second grind. Any finer and I find it's choking the machine or really struggling to push anything through.
I had the grinder on 9 and 10 and found the filter basket holes getting totally clogged and having a wash it out and scrub with my finger to dislodge the grounds.
Try using the double basket. It is much easier to get the pour right using it rather than the single.
Java "Houston I think we've found the problem!" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
Yep, the double basket is the only way to go, especially when you're learning. Also don't pay too much attention to other people's grinder settings as there's way too many other variables for them to be of much use. They could give you a ballpark target range, but they may not even do that.
Thank you so much for all of that detail, I really appreciate it.
I haven't bought the scales yet, but I'm doing much better with the fresh beans overall. Using the information I've received and taking grind/dose/tamp notes on every try to keep track of exactly what I did and what the result was to try and get a decent consistent result.
Heh... I'll probably be back swearing about this once I get something resembling consistently drinkable coffee out of this %$#%$#%.PS: getting decent frothed milk out of a 7000 is a whole 'nother can of worms - retraining old habits probably needed in your case.
I just bought a 7000 changing over from an Otto, I'm waiting for it to arrive. You will probably hear me yelling soon!
To be honest, I'd rather hear yelling in solidarity than 'ha ha, took it out of the box, started it up: THE COFFEE IS PERFECT I DUNNO WHAT YOU BABIES ARE WHINING ABOUT!'
(when I was looking for help/info/something/anything I watched a bunch of youtube videos and one dude did exactly that... I might have sworn at the screen, but I admit nothing)
When someone does that it just proves one of two things:
1. They think they deserve the credit for fluking it first go; or
2. They have no palate
The double basket did it. Had a few good shots in a row now. Won't bore with the details of grind etc as that is different for most but a 30 second extraction is tasting great. Very happy now.Try using the double basket. It is much easier to get the pour right using it rather than the single.
Java "Houston I think we've found the problem!" phile
As the owner of the Sunbeam EM6910/EM7000 series of beasts for many years, I am here to defend the reputation of the beast. Of course there have been many issues with reliability (Quality Control) with these machines, but once you have a working machine, then making a drinkable coffee should be relatively easy.
For me, the key to success with this beast is to :
* Grind your own beans (I will let you determine the relevant Brand and freshness of the Beans)
* Fill the Basket until it forms a slight mountain above the lip of the basket and then use your finger to tamp it down into a slight hollow
* Complete the filling of the basket and then tamp with a good quality Tamper (one that is the correct size for the basket...the Sunbeam one may not be)
* The final tamp should leave you just below the lip of the basket equal to the thickness of a 5 cent piece
Focus on the things that you can control first (the dose/amount of Grind & the pressure of your Tamp)...the coarseness of the Grind is the variable that you will need to experiment with.
Ignore the settings that others suggest on their Grinder (not that these settings are wrong....just irrelevant for you)
As a side note, as others have said, I was surprised how different the EM7000 was from the EM6910. As another side note, the EM7000 was advertised for $499 at JB Hi-Fi today....not bad if you can get a working and reliable one.
No swearing yet, I seemed to have fluked a few good ones in a row
An update: I returned the machine today :/.
I thought I was over the hump: With all of the great advice here, I managed a couple of days of pretty good coffee in a row. I was pretty $#%$#% pleased with myself, had the process sorted. Figured I could then just make tiny tweaks from there to get to great coffee.
BUT then doing all the same things as the 'pretty good coffee' days, I got '%$#^%$^ bad coffee. Again. Low pressure: watery & tasteless or right pressure: still watery, really bitter.
Yesterday I bought more fresh beans in case the beans that worked the previous days had suddenly gotten 'too old' (WTF, come on!). This morning: Crap coffee AGAIN.
So yeah, I give up.
On the upside: HN took the machine back no problem (I bought it in early May, returned the first one after two weeks thinking there was a problem with it, have been trying with this one for another month).
My EM9610 currently makes a noise like an airplane taking off as soon as I turn on the power (I don't even have to turn on the machine, it's like magic!), so not sure it can be fixed, but I'll give it a go.
@Porca: I kind of hate you right now.
Appreciate all the patience and advice regardless, so thanks.
As somebody about to purchase my next machine and due to various factors explained in a different thread the comments above are a little concerning as I was thinkning that the EM7000 was the most likely candidate. I have had a 6910 for 10+ years and it has served me very faithfully. So is there a recognised issue with the reliability of the Sunbeam machines I am not aware of (apart from the difficulties of producing a good shot that is described in this thread)?
I'm in the same boat here - Purchased the machine (EM7000) a few days ago but first use was about 15 minutes ago. Terrible results!
Previous machine was a Sunbeam and it lasted 10 years. Made average - great coffee depending on different factors. Used every type of store bought ground coffee beans and it would still give you something drinkable. But with the Sunbeam EM700 I fear I have entered a world of pain.
Using ground coffee from Coles, 2 cup basket (that came with the machine) and the coffee has no crema and is bitter. Tried a 1 cup pour on 2 cup basket + a manual pour. On the 1 & 2 cup button push pours the Pressure Gauge does not move. On the manual pour the gauge moved a few millimeters but only once the cup was full to the brim of coffee.
So if we are talking beans + grinder to solve my problems (if thats the problem) I would have thought if the EM7000 is so sensitive there would be information in the using manual about not only using a grinder and beans but the actual setting for the grinder.
No grinder is a precision tool that has settings based on exactly how far apart the burrs are etc, not even commercial grade grinders. Even if they were telling you a setting wouldn't be accurate as the grinder setting needed changes with the beans, also as the beans age. Commercial grinders will usually have a range they normally produce best results in, but it's not a super narrow range.
Were you using the pressurised (or dual wall) baskets with your 6910? Are you now using an unpressurised (or single wall) basket? That would explain the change. With pre-ground coffee you really need to use pressurised baskets. Espresso is a science, but there is an art to it because everything changes with the beans.
Yep - They were pressurised baskets (didnt even know that until this discussion).
Really packed in the coffee and got a better result. Only slightly better but it was so hard to get the group head on that I thought I might damage the machine + when it poured, water came out from above the group head so there was way to much coffee packed in. Think I need a more course grind.
Any suggestions on the grinder - Ive been reading about them for a few days but there is so many conflicting opinions out there.
You are correct, you will damage the machine packing that much coffee in. You are incorrect about needing a coarser grind, you need a finer grind.
As for grinder, depends on how much you want to spend / how long you want it to last. At the cheaper end a Sunbeam EM0480 or Breville BCG820 will do the job but won't last forever. At the other end a Eureka Mignon, Macap M2M or Compak K3 Touch will do the job a bit better and outlast your machine. This Macap M2D is currently for sale on CS: For Sale: Macap M2D Grinder Used
Thats interesting. I took some ground coffee (have purchased some small bags, different brands, that have been ground in case I get lucky) and put it in a spice grinder to try and get a finer grind out of it. Unfortunately the first one had the pressure gauge go straight to the red and the 2nd one just poured like every other coffee we have got so far - No crema and horrible tasting.
The Sunbeam EM0480 is on sale at Myer at the moment for $160, was tempted to try it.
If you get good results from preground coffee it is a fluke and wont be repeatable the next day.
You really need a grinder and freshly roasted beans.
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