Results 1 to 37 of 37
Like Tree77Likes
  • 3 Post By MediumRoastSteam
  • 10 Post By 338
  • 2 Post By level3ninja
  • 5 Post By 338
  • 3 Post By MediumRoastSteam
  • 3 Post By trentski
  • 1 Post By Yelta
  • 1 Post By sacsnob
  • 5 Post By Crema_Lad
  • 1 Post By sacsnob
  • 1 Post By Yelta
  • 3 Post By MediumRoastSteam
  • 2 Post By Yelta
  • 7 Post By magnafunk
  • 1 Post By greenman
  • 2 Post By Yelta
  • 2 Post By flynnaus
  • 2 Post By 338
  • 5 Post By Dimal
  • 1 Post By Yelta
  • 1 Post By matth3wh
  • 2 Post By Crema_Lad
  • 1 Post By sacsnob
  • 2 Post By Dimal
  • 1 Post By matth3wh
  • 4 Post By suvartet
  • 1 Post By MediumRoastSteam
  • 1 Post By MediumRoastSteam

Thread: Thinking of downgrading from Profitec Pro-700 to Pro-300

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27

    Thinking of downgrading from Profitec Pro-700 to Pro-300

    I'm currently thinking of downgrading from my Pro-700 to a Pro-300.

    After two years, I am coming to the realisation that it may be that the Pro-700 is too much of a machine for my needs.

    I love the consistency and stability of the Pro-700, and the simplicity and durability of the E61 group head. The fact is, however, that I make 1 or 2 cups of coffee first thing in the morning, most of the time. At the weekends (or when I work from home) I usually make 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup after lunch. Now that I have a grinder that I can single dose and adjust easily, I have also started to have a cup of decaf in the evening if i fancy one. Every time, I am heating up 3L of water for the sake of a 60ml espresso and some steamed milk. Due to the nature of the E61 group head, the warm-up time for that machine is around 45 minutes, so I almost have to plan every time I want a coffee. I know there are people who leave their machine on all day long, but this is not for me, as the machine is in the kitchen and the kitchen is small.

    So I thought of buying a La Pavoni Europicola or Professional. Great machines, but they have issues around stability. Moreover, I'd rather keep to the 58mm PF size so I can re-use most of my stuff (tampers, distributors, baskets, etc).

    Then I came across the Pro-300. An entry level dual boiler, with much small boilers than the Pro-700. For me, the main advantage is the heat up time: If what they say is true, the machine can come up to temp is less than 10 minutes. For me, that's just ideal.

    So I ask the esteemed forum members here their opinion. How does one compare to the other? How does it compare In terms of shot quality? What about steaming power? Is the downgrade worth the while in your opinion?

    Please let me know if I have gone totally insane. :-)
    matth3wh, Umpqua and 338 like this.

  2. #2
    338
    338 is online now
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    136
    MSR, you risk being run out of the forum for being eminently sensible and practical.
    artman, Crema_Lad, kbc and 7 others like this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Casula, NSW
    Posts
    285
    Is your 700 plumbed in? The 300 has a vibratory pump and can't be plumbed.
    Last edited by level3ninja; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:55 AM. Reason: Spelling
    aussieflicker and Magic_Matt like this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    2,994
    With the amount of coffees you are producing to you really need a dual boiler machine, a HX would probably serve your needs just as efficiently??

  5. #5
    338
    338 is online now
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    With the amount of coffees you are producing to you really need a dual boiler machine, a HX would probably serve your needs just as efficiently??
    Greenman, if MRS keeps within the Profitec line the 500 HX is more expensive and has the E61 grouphead so likely wont solve the warmup problem. The 300 looks to have the boiler directly attached above the grouphead with all that means for warmup so may match his needs better.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    304
    Is switching to espresso drinks an option? Or maybe milk drinks in the morning and shots after that.

    That way you're not reheating up the big steam boiler repeatedly.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27
    Hi all, thanks for your input.

    So, I had an HX machine before and, let's say, we didn't get on. I like the reproducibility of a dual boiler. Besides, in Southern England the water is really hard, thus my machine is fed with a bottled water which is soft (not too soft) and won't scale the boiler. Because of that, cooling flushes are a no-no for me. As you may have guessed therefore, the machine is not plumbed in and I don't really have a need or desire to do so given my usage.

    So, the main thing about heating up, as well as the boilers, is the E61 group head. To be fair as you may know already, the P-700 is up to boiler temp in less than 10 minutes. However, due to the heavy mass of the E61, it will take another 35 minutes for that to be ready. Hence one needs to plan when one wants a cup of coffee. :-) And that's the appeal of the P-300. Not only the small boiler size, thus slightly more compact than its big sister, but the fact that the ring group is mounted directly below the boiler as 338 says.

    Would be interesting to hear from anyone who had both type of machines before - or the Pro-300 - and know their opinions.
    Magic_Matt, kbc and suvartet like this.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Greenwood Perth
    Posts
    24
    My 700 heats up in 10 minutes then I run some water through the e61. That makes what I think is a good shot.
    More cheers from Oz.
    John

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Good point John.
    Heat up time is rarely a deal breaker due to 2 key work-arounds.
    #1 - use a powerpoint timer for the morning turn-on.
    #2 - accelerate heat up times with warming flushes when you have the news for speed
    Personally, I would never give up an E61 group for the reason of heating time.
    Cheers, Paul
    Thanks! Those are reassuring comments. I do use a timer for the morning, but don't like flushing too much water through as I feed the machine with bottled water.

    However, y our point regarding the E61 is reassuring: I think sometimes it is easy to get used to something and expect everything else to be just e same. Thanks!

  10. #10
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,532
    You can get an hx machine tuned so you dont need cooling flushes. Most sponsor supplied australian hx machines have been this way for a few years now.
    I have a rocket gpp coming up 10 years old that doesn't need cooling flushes.
    Dimal, Yelta and zeezaw like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    You can get an hx machine tuned so you dont need cooling flushes. Most sponsor supplied australian hx machines have been this way for a few years now.
    I have a rocket gpp coming up 10 years old that doesn't need cooling flushes.
    Yep! same with my 9 yo Bezzera Domus Galatea.
    Dimal likes this.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    39
    I sold my last HX and bought a DB (Lelit PL60T) for the same reason (quick heatup time), Now I can make a coffee almost anytime I want without planning in advance. (as it takes only minutes to heat up). Steam wise whilst its not as powerful as machines with bigger boilers its sufficient for my needs.
    MediumRoastSteam likes this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Crema_Lad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    148
    Well I'll come clean - I had a much loved VBM Domobar Super Level HX unit and a MACAP M4 grinder used for mainly milk based drinks. For various reasons I too was pulling a lot less shots and realised whilst awesome kit it was 'overkill' for my needs, so the 'For Sale' sign went up.

    I went without for a while, went onto drip filter for my hit, but missed the romance and technique of making a latte and just recently re-entered the game but on a much smaller scale. Ive bought a Breville bes920 dual boiler and a Settle 270W grinder.
    I struggled with the 'B' Brand (am i both a coffee and brand snob?!) but it was well reviewed and a good price for what it does (plus wifey put her foot down on budget after finding out $$ of initial setup ha ha!). As it also allows for customised water temp, pre infusion and dosage times it allows for a bit of experimentation as well. And so far I've been quite impressed at what its doing!

    The Sette 270 is an awesome little grinder very happy there also. Actually more so than I ever was with the MACAP. WAF went up ten fold also - both units combined take up a lot less bench space!

    In summary I think we are in the minority and somewhat of black sheep to suffer 'downgraditis' but hey consider it one of life's little detours!

    Good luck with your downgrade decision process!

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    39
    BES920 is a good dual boiler machine, the only downside is it does not last as long, though with the recent $690 deal it'd be a non-issue. If I have not had a machine at home I'd have bought it in a heart beat.
    Crema_Lad likes this.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,094
    Have to say I would find it more than a little difficult going from a well made Italian HX machine to a Breville or Sunbeam offering, yep, have used them, not in the same ball park.

    Heat up time is not an issue with me, being retired has quite a bit to do with that, although thinking back to my Silvia days, when I was still in the work force, 6 AM starts, out of bed, machine on, shower, shave, dress, machine ready to go.

    Just my opinion, I'm sure others will strongly disagree.
    Magic_Matt likes this.

  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,334
    Well...

    I'll be heading via the downgrade path soon myself but not into a smaller espresso machine but into basic manual coffee making methods.

    It's just getting too difficult and painful for me to continue using the BFC Diadema Dual Boiler machine these days and will only be getting worse as time marches on. So, the inevitable will be happening in a couple of weeks time and the beloved DJE DB will be listed 4-Sale.

    Such is life...

    Mal.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Well...

    I'll be heading via the downgrade path soon myself but not into a smaller espresso machine but into basic manual coffee making methods.

    It's just getting too difficult and painful for me to continue using the BFC Diadema Dual Boiler machine these days and will only be getting worse as time marches on. So, the inevitable will be happening in a couple of weeks time and the beloved DJE DB will be listed 4-Sale.

    Such is life...

    Mal.
    There has been a similar trend in the UK forums. Some people with expensive kit who have been doing this for a while have downgraded to appreciate other methods of brewing rather than espresso. Which I think is not wrong at all. I would not classify that as a downgrade, but as exploring different brewing methods.
    Crema_Lad, Magic_Matt and matth3wh like this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Well...

    I'll be heading via the downgrade path soon myself but not into a smaller espresso machine but into basic manual coffee making methods.

    It's just getting too difficult and painful for me to continue using the BFC Diadema Dual Boiler machine these days and will only be getting worse as time marches on. So, the inevitable will be happening in a couple of weeks time and the beloved DJE DB will be listed 4-Sale.

    Such is life...

    Mal.
    Sorry to hear this Mal, we take good health and mobility fore granted in our youth, sadly, as I have found, time takes its toll.

    Do you plan to continue roasting?

    All the best with whatever option you choose.
    Dimal and magnafunk like this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    East Kimberley, WA
    Posts
    461
    A sad day indeed Mal. The silver lining is the difference between the value of your BFC and the bargain price of a behmor brazen will buy a lot of green beans (if you are to continue roasting) and if you do so, I look forward to reading your filter roasting notes.

    Good luck with whatever your chosen path is, it feels like we owe you a gold watch

  20. #20
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    2,994
    The march of time is not to kind to all of us Mal, there are some amazing coffees out there for filter brewing these days waiting for you to explore. Hang in there and maintain the passion. Looking forward to following your coffee journey.
    Best wishes from Trevor
    Dimal likes this.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    it feels like we owe you a gold watch
    Amen to that, or at least an award for services rendered.
    Dimal and matth3wh like this.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    I'm currently thinking of downgrading from my Pro-700 to a Pro-300.

    After two years, I am coming to the realisation that it may be that the Pro-700 is too much of a machine for my needs.

    I love the consistency and stability of the Pro-700, and the simplicity and durability of the E61 group head. The fact is, however, that I make 1 or 2 cups of coffee first thing in the morning, most of the time. At the weekends (or when I work from home) I usually make 1 cup in the morning and 1 cup after lunch. Now that I have a grinder that I can single dose and adjust easily, I have also started to have a cup of decaf in the evening if i fancy one. Every time, I am heating up 3L of water for the sake of a 60ml espresso and some steamed milk. Due to the nature of the E61 group head, the warm-up time for that machine is around 45 minutes, so I almost have to plan every time I want a coffee. I know there are people who leave their machine on all day long, but this is not for me, as the machine is in the kitchen and the kitchen is small.

    So I thought of buying a La Pavoni Europicola or Professional. Great machines, but they have issues around stability. Moreover, I'd rather keep to the 58mm PF size so I can re-use most of my stuff (tampers, distributors, baskets, etc).

    Then I came across the Pro-300. An entry level dual boiler, with much small boilers than the Pro-700. For me, the main advantage is the heat up time: If what they say is true, the machine can come up to temp is less than 10 minutes. For me, that's just ideal.

    So I ask the esteemed forum members here their opinion. How does one compare to the other? How does it compare In terms of shot quality? What about steaming power? Is the downgrade worth the while in your opinion?

    Please let me know if I have gone totally insane. :-)
    Interesting. I am looking at going the other way and upgrade from single boiler. But one of the things I like is the fast heat up time. I love the sound of an e61 group head and to improve my coffee experience but be able to steam at the same time vs waiting. Will have to give this some serious thought.

  23. #23
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,661
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    .. the inevitable will be happening in a couple of weeks time and the beloved DJE DB will be listed 4-Sale.
    Gees, that's tough Mal. I hope it finds a good home, hopefully locally where you can enjoy visiting rights
    Dimal and magnafunk like this.

  24. #24
    338
    338 is online now
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    136
    Mal sorry to read about your health - I definitely feel you have earned a gold watch, and I have only been reading your pearls of wisdom for 6 months! For the long termers it must feel like a lifetime. Good luck in the next stage of coffee making.
    Dimal and greenman like this.

  25. #25
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Do you plan to continue roasting?
    Absolutely mate, not giving up coffee just yet.
    My lovely wife and youngest son help out when I need it...

    Mal.
    greenman, matth3wh, Yelta and 2 others like this.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Absolutely mate, not giving up coffee just yet.
    My lovely wife and youngest son help out when I need it...

    Mal.
    Good to hear Mal.

    Family! where would we be without them.
    Dimal likes this.

  27. #27
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    600
    Mal, can your family be coaxed in to helping passing snobs going north to Toowoomba or is that pushing things? :-) I've always meant to ask you for any cafe recommendations for Warwick? (or better to wait until Twba?)

    On topic I highly endorse downsizing and changing up coffee brewing methods and machines. :-)
    Dimal likes this.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Crema_Lad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsnob View Post
    BES920 is a good dual boiler machine, the only downside is it does not last as long, though with the recent $690 deal it'd be a non-issue. If I have not had a machine at home I'd have bought it in a heart beat.
    Was the deciding factor for me to take the plunge! So far my own concerns of 'downsizing' so dramatically have been unfounded. Been pulling pretty good and consistent shots, awesome microfoam milk, easy to clean. There is a lot to like!

    But yes I am not kidding myself the build quality is nowhere near the same as its Italian counterparts and it will give out much sooner ....hopefully by then I'll be ready to upgrade to some extent!

    Or, and not that its all about the $$ but I'd still be ahead by a long shot (ha!) cost wise if I even just went and bought another Breville! Time will tell but for now am enjoying being 'back in the game' !
    Dimal and matth3wh like this.

  29. #29
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    600
    Just hopefully less of the bad bang. Sounds like there could be some magic smoke wanting to get out. 🤣

  30. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Crema_Lad View Post
    Was the deciding factor for me to take the plunge! So far my own concerns of 'downsizing' so dramatically have been unfounded. Been pulling pretty good and consistent shots, awesome microfoam milk, easy to clean. There is a lot to like!

    But yes I am not kidding myself the build quality is nowhere near the same as its Italian counterparts and it will give out much sooner ....hopefully by then I'll be ready to upgrade to some extent!

    Or, and not that its all about the $$ but I'd still be ahead by a long shot (ha!) cost wise if I even just went and bought another Breville! Time will tell but for now am enjoying being 'back in the game' !

    I would not worry about it too much, have owned a couple of its italian counterparts in the past, nothing lasted me more than 2 years before the xxxxgradetis kicked in. For that money you have dual boiler, PID, preinfusion, shot timer, timer switch, you name it. there has to be a trade-off somewhere.
    Crema_Lad likes this.

  31. #31
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,334
    Quote Originally Posted by matth3wh View Post
    Mal, can your family be coaxed in to helping passing snobs going north to Toowoomba or is that pushing things? :-) I've always meant to ask you for any cafe recommendations for Warwick? (or better to wait until Twba?)
    Haha...

    No mate, I'd be hanging on until you get to Toowoomba for anything half decent.
    Only a couple of chain outposts here in Warwick where the best that could be said is, only if you're very desperate...

    Mal.
    matth3wh and readeral like this.

  32. #32
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Mid North Coast NSW
    Posts
    600
    Mal I feared that may have been the case. Can't remember the last time we ventured off the highway to the CBD to find out. The other battle when travelling is the 3pm or 4pm closing time cut off.

    Now for a very loose segway back on topic... Perhaps someone could downsize their machine, buy a commercial one to use by day and have your cheaper one by night. Help the good people of Warwick! Come on people!? Where's your coffee spirit?
    Dimal likes this.

  33. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    Hi all, thanks for your input.

    So, I had an HX machine before and, let's say, we didn't get on. I like the reproducibility of a dual boiler. Besides, in Southern England the water is really hard, thus my machine is fed with a bottled water which is soft (not too soft) and won't scale the boiler. Because of that, cooling flushes are a no-no for me. As you may have guessed therefore, the machine is not plumbed in and I don't really have a need or desire to do so given my usage.

    So, the main thing about heating up, as well as the boilers, is the E61 group head. To be fair as you may know already, the P-700 is up to boiler temp in less than 10 minutes. However, due to the heavy mass of the E61, it will take another 35 minutes for that to be ready. Hence one needs to plan when one wants a cup of coffee. :-) And that's the appeal of the P-300. Not only the small boiler size, thus slightly more compact than its big sister, but the fact that the ring group is mounted directly below the boiler as 338 says.

    Would be interesting to hear from anyone who had both type of machines before - or the Pro-300 - and know their opinions.
    Hey MRS, I've been using the Pro 300 with a single dosing grinder setup for about the last 10 months. I was considering the Pro 700 before I purchased my setup. Decided against going to the 700 for pretty much the reasons you listed in your original post (heatup, size)

    The heatup time is accurate. The ring group (and portafilter) will take about an extra 5min to get hot, but 10-15min is sufficient. Handy for turning on whenever guests arrive or if you want an evening coffee.

    Steam power is going to be a step down. But it's sufficient for steaming single cup drinks.
    It'll take less than 20seconds to steam milk for a 180ml latte/capp. Steaming and brewing at the same time is great.

    You will also lose preinfusion. As long as you distribute well it's not a huge issue.

    If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Greenwood Perth
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by MediumRoastSteam View Post
    Thanks! Those are reassuring comments. I do use a timer for the morning, but don't like flushing too much water through as I feed the machine with bottled water.

    However, y our point regarding the E61 is reassuring: I think sometimes it is easy to get used to something and expect everything else to be just e same. Thanks!
    Dare I suggest that instead of getting rid of the 700 you switch off the steam boiler and get one of those cheap frothing gadgets used with the pod machines. Not as good microform perhaps but quick and the brew boiler has priority heating and is smaller.

  35. #35
    338
    338 is online now
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    136
    Johnd, good suggestion but I don't think it is the boiler causing the slow warm up time as much as the few kilograms of brass called the E-61 grouphead.

    MSR, one suggestion which will give you higher ambient temperature and ready availability of reasonable water for warming flushes is - move to Australia.

  36. #36
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Johnd, good suggestion but I don't think it is the boiler causing the slow warm up time as much as the few kilograms of brass called the E-61 grouphead.

    MSR, one suggestion which will give you higher ambient temperature and ready availability of reasonable water for warming flushes is - move to Australia.
    Ha! That would be a good reason then not to get rid of the Pro-700!

    On a serious note, thank you for all the messages. I came to the conclusion here that keeping the Pro-700 is the right thing to do. Just a bit of planning ahead (or some flushing in preparation) will do the trick nicely. Thanks everyone, really appreciate it.
    suvartet likes this.

  37. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by suvartet View Post
    Hey MRS, I've been using the Pro 300 with a single dosing grinder setup for about the last 10 months. I was considering the Pro 700 before I purchased my setup. Decided against going to the 700 for pretty much the reasons you listed in your original post (heatup, size)

    The heatup time is accurate. The ring group (and portafilter) will take about an extra 5min to get hot, but 10-15min is sufficient. Handy for turning on whenever guests arrive or if you want an evening coffee.

    Steam power is going to be a step down. But it's sufficient for steaming single cup drinks.
    It'll take less than 20seconds to steam milk for a 180ml latte/capp. Steaming and brewing at the same time is great.

    You will also lose preinfusion. As long as you distribute well it's not a huge issue.

    If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.
    Thank you for this suvartet, appreciate it.
    suvartet likes this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •