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Thread: Retired my BES 920 for the EM7000.

  1. #1
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    Retired my BES 920 for the EM7000.

    Hi Folks.

    I have stalked this great forum for some years but never joined and posted, so let me start by saying a big thankyou to all of the knowledgeable people here who have taught me so much!

    4 years ago purchased a BES 920. I have been very happy with it's performance, however I only make 2 coffees a day and it has been in for repair twice since the warranty expired. Given this track record and the cost of parts, when it began to misbehave again I decided it was time to cut my losses. This is not to bag Breville. It seems to me machine reliability is pretty much luck of the draw. Read for long enough and you can find a nightmare storie about almost any manufacturer!

    After reading many helpful posts and failing to convince my partner that a $2500 shiny Italian device was just what we needed for our single daily latte, I settled upon the EM 7000. I was a little nervous given that it is a dual thermoblock rather than boiler, but I have to say that I am very pleasantly surprised. After 4 years with the Breville there are a few things that jumped right out at me as advantages.

    1. The quality of steam production on the EM 7000 is far better than my BES 920. I could never use a jug large enough for 2 mugs of latte on the Breville. Well, to be fair I guess I could, but after a fortnight of steaming I would end up with 2 flat whites

    2. Despite being a bit of a gimick, the steam temp sensing wand is really handy.

    3. If I am not mistaken, the shot size settings are based on volume of water pumped rather than time. Will stand corrected if this is not so.

    4. Far easier to accomodate those that are happy to risk being ostracised for blasphemy by requesting their tasty beverage 'extra hot'.

    5. Smaller footprint than the Breville.

    6. Very fast startup.

    On the downside:

    1. Pressure meter much smaller than the Breville, though still very readable.

    2. No backlight behind water level indicator makes it harder to read.

    3. Not as pretty as the Breville, though neither is any oil painting.

    The price of the Breville has dropped drastically since my initial purchase (Originally$1499 with grinder, now on sale around $799 standalone) and I picked up the EM 7000 for $599 plus $99 for an extra four years warranty, so not a huge difference price wise.

    I am located on the Qld Sunshine Coast. If anyone is interested and technically minded they are welcome to my retiring BES 920 FOC for parts. It still functions, but is making some pretty outrageous noises, the coffee will not pump until after the hot water has run for a while, and the plastic ring inside the group head is broken. It does come with a brand new unopened water filter though

    Cheers!
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Crema_Lad's Avatar
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    Have fun with your new machine! I'm on the other side having had a new BES920 for just on 3 weeks now and really impressed. I'm finding no issues getting good micro foam milk for 2 lattes although agree the steam output is not super strong so it takes a while - but am happy with that as it gives me more leeway in my process!

    I would love to think our time together will last forever but reality is these machines aren't built like their 'Italian Shiny Cousins' so would be unrealistic to think the Breville will last as long. But here's hoping :-)
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    I will be interested to see your long term review.
    Having used an EM7000 and drunk quite a few coffees from one and owned an EM6910 and now owning the latest version BES920, some of my observations are different to yours.
    Steam wise in comparison to a 6 month old Em7000 the 920 is significantly higher powered and a touch more powerful the the 6910, easier to produce latte art level steam than either but needs attention to produce the higher froth level for a cappuccino.
    To increase heat above 60~65c in any of them is a matter of seconds.

    The Bes920 has the option of timed or volume where as I think the Em7000 is locked to volume, short of manual mode.

    Brother inlaws very lightly used 2 cups a day EM7000 lasted about a year before being replaced as Sunbeam said it was not repairable.

    Personal taste or operator difference/ familiarity I would prefer the EM6910 every time due to better flavor and faster steam but not for how beeping noisy it is , my 6910 has had one DIY repair in 2 1/2 years at 15 to 20 cups a day, it is still working but showing its age and is stored for backup.

    Op I hope the EM7000 works out for you.

    I am interested to see how our BDB lasts under the load we place on our coffee machines
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crema_Lad View Post
    Have fun with your new machine! I'm on the other side having had a new BES920 for just on 3 weeks now and really impressed. I'm finding no issues getting good micro foam milk for 2 lattes although agree the steam output is not super strong so it takes a while - but am happy with that as it gives me more leeway in my process!

    I would love to think our time together will last forever but reality is these machines aren't built like their 'Italian Shiny Cousins' so would be unrealistic to think the Breville will last as long. But here's hoping :-)
    Haha - ships that pass in the night Crema_lad! Glad to hear you are enjoying the 920. I was always very happy with it's operation. I suspect I was just unlucky with regards reliability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee666 View Post
    I will be interested to see your long term review.
    Having used an EM7000 and drunk quite a few coffees from one and owned an EM6910 and now owning the latest version BES920, some of my observations are different to yours.
    Steam wise in comparison to a 6 month old Em7000 the 920 is significantly higher powered and a touch more powerful the the 6910, easier to produce latte art level steam than either but needs attention to produce the higher froth level for a cappuccino.
    To increase heat above 60~65c in any of them is a matter of seconds.

    The Bes920 has the option of timed or volume where as I think the Em7000 is locked to volume, short of manual mode.

    Brother inlaws very lightly used 2 cups a day EM7000 lasted about a year before being replaced as Sunbeam said it was not repairable.

    Personal taste or operator difference/ familiarity I would prefer the EM6910 every time due to better flavor and faster steam but not for how beeping noisy it is , my 6910 has had one DIY repair in 2 1/2 years at 15 to 20 cups a day, it is still working but showing its age and is stored for backup.

    Op I hope the EM7000 works out for you.

    I am interested to see how our BDB lasts under the load we place on our coffee machines
    I didn't realise you could switch then BDB to volume measurement - nice! Interesting observation on the steam as the 7000 probably a 50% improvement over the BDB for me. Here's hoping I have more luck than your brother in law and you have more luck than me
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Let me guess, you fill your coffee machines with unfiltered tap water right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Let me guess, you fill your coffee machines with unfiltered tap water right?
    Wrong. My property is not even connected to town water. I fill my coffee machines with filtered rainwater.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenfoot View Post
    Wrong. My property is not even connected to town water. I fill my coffee machines with filtered rainwater.
    Hmm that's interesting. The problems your Breville had are often symptomatic of being full of scale and gunk due to being filled with low quality water. Does your filtration system soften as well as filter? Do you know the TDS of the water that you use? Maybe you did just get a dud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Hmm that's interesting. The problems your Breville had are often symptomatic of being full of scale and gunk due to being filled with low quality water. Does your filtration system soften as well as filter? Do you know the TDS of the water that you use? Maybe you did just get a dud.
    Given that we don't use ground water (well/bore) or piped town water in the kitchen or live anywhere near a city, much less an industrial area, it seems very unlikely that we would have problematic levels of TDS in our rainwater. Also, I descaled the BDB every 6 months and ran the cleaning cycle when instructed.

    FWIW, the coffee machine I had before the BDB, a single thermoblock Gaggia Classic, ran for 10 years on the same water and still works, and I didn't even know what descaling was back then! It functioned as our backup when the Breville was holidaying at the repairers.

    I am fairly certain I didn't do anything to contribute to the BDB's untimely demise Leroy. Whilst there are many great reports, if you Google you will find that neither am I alone in having reliability issues with this machine. As I said in my first post, I am not bashing Breville or the BES 920 here. Just the luck of the draw. We are shopping in the in budget end of the mid range market using mass produced machines. Duds happen. If nothing else I have learned that in this particular consumer realm extended warranties are our friends
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenfoot View Post
    Given that we don't use ground water (well/bore) or piped town water in the kitchen or live anywhere near a city, much less an industrial area, it seems very unlikely that we would have problematic levels of TDS in our rainwater. Also, I descaled the BDB every 6 months and ran the cleaning cycle when instructed.

    FWIW, the coffee machine I had before the BDB, a single thermoblock Gaggia Classic, ran for 10 years on the same water and still works, and I didn't even know what descaling was back then! It functioned as our backup when the Breville was holidaying at the repairers.

    I am fairly certain I didn't do anything to contribute to the BDB's untimely demise Leroy. Whilst there are many great reports, if you Google you will find that neither am I alone in having reliability issues with this machine. As I said in my first post, I am not bashing Breville or the BES 920 here. Just the luck of the draw. We are shopping in the in budget end of the mid range market using mass produced machines. Duds happen. If nothing else I have learned that in this particular consumer realm extended warranties are our friends
    G'day Tenfoot

    My later "espresso machine" coffee journey is similar to yours in the sense that I started near the top (1970 La Cimbali 6 group commercial machine in 1970, La Pav 2 group at home in 1985) and worked up (Electra Manual Lever and 110V and 220V GS3's) and ended up post divorce with a "needing everything" 2 group La Pavoni (not my original one, same model, commercial machine, needs 20A for 35minutes to warm up plus plumbing in - virtually unused these days) plus a "2010 / made 2008" SB6910 & (in 2014) a new 7000.

    FYI, 6910s vary widely because SB keeps changing them (except for the noise - sigh). Major change around 2010: the newer ones make far less powerful steam, slightly less powerful shot, and a "lower cup height" version (I can't forgive them for this - I broke a favourite cup first time around). The earlier ones can steam a 2 litre jug just like the La Pav. The later ones vary from "barely a one litre" to "600ml if lucky". The 7000 is virtually the same as the later 6910s in terms of steam power (and shot power for that matter). Both make a brilliant espresso if you know what you are doing.

    You were probably just unlucky with your Breville - I have used a few 900 / 920s and they are also capable of making brilliant coffee (but the warm up time & power thirst drives me crazy - minor shades of the La Pav).

    Main reason for this post - I also use filtered (both in and out in my case) rainwater and have never had any scale buildup on any gear. If you keep using your rainwater you have removed one of the main coffee machine killers.

    Care and feeding of the 7000:
    Take care not to get coffee grounds into the 7000 seal and it should last well (for many years, ditto the collar).
    Oh, and do not leave the machine on standby for too long. I learnt recently why my 7000 has blown two steam thermostats (its only issue). The gradual heat buildup kills the steam thermostat. At $6 a pop I am more annoyed at the silliness of the design than concerned in terms of reliability, however it is frustrating.

    Enjoy your cuppa


    TampIt
    Last edited by TampIt; 9th July 2017 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Lysdexed a number
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    One thing about the 7000 that will appeal to Crema_Lad: the shutdown time is adjustable to 30 mins, 1 hour, 8 hours, and 26 hours.
    It can even be set to not switch off automatically at all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day Tenfoot

    My later "espresso machine" coffee journey is similar to yours in the sense that I started near the top (1970 La Cimbali 6 group commercial machine in 1970, La Pav 2 group at home in 1985) and worked up (Electra Manual Lever and 110V and 220V GS3's) and ended up post divorce with a "needing everything" 2 group La Pavoni (not my original one, same model, commercial machine, needs 20A for 35minutes to warm up plus plumbing in - virtually unused these days) plus a "2010 / made 2008" SB6910 & (in 2014) a new 7000.

    FYI, 9610s vary widely because SB keeps changing them (except for the noise - sigh). Major change around 2010: the newer ones make far less powerful steam, slightly less powerful shot, and a "lower cup height" version (I can't forgive them for this - I broke a favourite cup first time around). The earlier ones can steam a 2 litre jug just like the La Pav. The later ones vary from "barely a one litre" to "600ml if lucky". The 7000 is virtually the same as the later 6910s in terms of steam power (and shot power for that matter). Both make a brilliant espresso if you know what you are doing.

    You were probably just unlucky with your Breville - I have used a few 900 / 920s and they are also capable of making brilliant coffee (but the warm up time & power thirst drives me crazy - minor shades of the La Pav).

    Main reason for this post - I also use filtered (both in and out in my case) rainwater and have never had any scale buildup on any gear. If you keep using your rainwater you have removed one of the main coffee machine killers.

    Care and feeding of the 7000:
    Take care not to get coffee grounds into the 7000 seal and it should last well (for many years, ditto the collar).
    Oh, and do not leave the machine on standby for too long. I learnt recently why my 7000 has blown two steam thermostats (its only issue). The gradual heat buildup kills the steam thermostat. At $6 a pop I am more annoyed at the silliness of the design than concerned in terms of reliability, however it is frustrating.

    Enjoy your cuppa


    TampIt
    Hey Tamplt. Thanks for the advice mate - much appreciated!

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    G'day again Tenfoot / Crema_Lad

    One quick point - I had my 7000 on 8 hour standby. The area near the steam thermostat just keeps on picking up heat because the "nice silent" 7000 is too insulated on the four I have now checked. Given a bit of hindsight, the fast warmup of a 6910 / 7000 means that the longer standby times are probably unnecessary.

    Btw - when you first warm (i.e. at circa the 90 second mark when the lights come on) a 6910 / 7000 it is essential to pull a few seconds of "post preinfusion" preflush to get the whole system (esp the p/f) at a constant temperature before a decent cuppa may emerge. After the series of shots, a quick post flush keeps the showerscreens so much cleaner... YMMV


    TampIt
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    I am on the opposite journey, had the 7000 for 3 years, now has a 920 for a year. I find that the 920 makes better coffee, and produces significantly more powerful steam than the 7000. Perhaps there was something wrong with your steam wand.
    The only thing i like more on the Sunbeam is the temperature gauge for the steam, and its single basket is better than the equivalent in the Breville.
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    I've heard the steam temperature gauge on the 7000 is only a timer, not actually temperature sensing. Can anyone confirm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    G'day again Tenfoot / Crema_Lad

    One quick point - I had my 7000 on 8 hour standby. The area near the steam thermostat just keeps on picking up heat because the "nice silent" 7000 is too insulated on the four I have now checked. Given a bit of hindsight, the fast warmup of a 6910 / 7000 means that the longer standby times are probably unnecessary.

    Btw - when you first warm (i.e. at circa the 90 second mark when the lights come on) a 6910 / 7000 it is essential to pull a few seconds of "post preinfusion" preflush to get the whole system (esp the p/f) at a constant temperature before a decent cuppa may emerge. After the series of shots, a quick post flush keeps the showerscreens so much cleaner... YMMV


    TampIt
    Thanks again Tamplt. I have utilised all of your excellent advice and am very happy with my tasty morning beverage

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I've heard the steam temperature gauge on the 7000 is only a timer, not actually temperature sensing. Can anyone confirm?
    No, it is definitely not JUST a timer, but there is something perculiar about how it does it's measurement, and time may be part of it's programmed calibration.

    I just ran a test with a very small and very large milk jug and a secondary thermometre. In both cases, the temperature wand exactly tracked the secondary thermometer, even though the large jug took twice as long as the small jug, and the machine obviously has no way of knowing what size jug I am using. This would indicate that it is indeed meausring temperature. However, the peculiarity is that if you start with hot milk, the wand never gets an accurate reading, suggesting that time is at least a part of it's measurement and calibration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brissienew View Post
    I am on the opposite journey, had the 7000 for 3 years, now has a 920 for a year. I find that the 920 makes better coffee, and produces significantly more powerful steam than the 7000. Perhaps there was something wrong with your steam wand.
    The only thing i like more on the Sunbeam is the temperature gauge for the steam, and its single basket is better than the equivalent in the Breville.
    There could well have been a problem. I never considered that could be the case as many of the early reviews of the 900/920 stated that the steam was more than adequate, though not outstanding. Pretty much how I found it. Perhaps there has been improvements in one or other of the machines?

    I can't really say that I got better coffees out of either machine. I was very happy with the 920's brew and am just as happy with the 7000. As a latte drinker, I saw a massive jump going from a single to dual boiler. I cant honestly qualify any measurable difference in brew quality between dual thermoblock and dual boiler.

    I am also conscious of the fact that it is easy to come to the conclusion that the newest is the best. We are after all comparing our new shiny toy with a jaded old one

    Glad to hear you are happy with your machine!
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Crema_Lad's Avatar
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    New is always good!

    I agree, I'm quite happy with steam output of bes920 but wouldn't say it's super strong. I was using a VBM Domobar at one stage and that thing could sure pump out some steam !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crema_Lad View Post
    New is always good!
    Yes, although I was quite happy with the performance of the 7000, I kept having issues with a leaky steam wand. It was probably just a seal or something that needed to be replaced, but I eventually managed to get a cash payout from my extended warranty and used that money to buy a new BES 920 when it was on special. In the end it cost me just about nothing to 'upgrade' to a 920.
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    Senior Member Crema_Lad's Avatar
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    Retired my BES 920 for the EM7000.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brissienew View Post
    Yes, although I was quite happy with the performance of the 7000, I kept having issues with a leaky steam wand. It was probably just a seal or something that needed to be replaced, but I eventually managed to get a cash payout from my extended warranty and used that money to buy a new BES 920 when it was on special. In the end it cost me just about nothing to 'upgrade' to a 920.
    Well done! I wish all upgrade paths worked like that

    sounds like the extended warranty worked well for you, I've always been a but skeptical thinking they are just a money grab by the retailer offering them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crema_Lad View Post

    sounds like the extended warranty worked well for you, I've always been a but skeptical thinking they are just a money grab by the retailer offering them.
    IMO, coffee machines have a high chance of breaking down within a few years so it is worth getting the extended warranty. My EM7000 developed a problem with the steam wand being slow to shut off. It took them a month to fix even though it may had been a simple fix. Same problem recurred a few months later. I didn't bother getting it fix initially as I didn't want to be without my machine and had to resort to using my back up Nespresso machine. Eventually I got sick of the problem, and then I saw the Bes 920 on sale for cheap. I had the option of getting a replacement machine or having it fixed again. I thought I would try my luck with asking to be paid out rather than getting a replacement em7000. Much to my surprise they agreed! So I got lucky.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I've heard the steam temperature gauge on the 7000 is only a timer, not actually temperature sensing. Can anyone confirm?
    G'day level3ninja

    The temp sensor is on the wand. That means that you will only get consistent readings IF your technique is consistent. Holding the wand completely out of the milk will still give an increase in the temp reading.

    FWIW, I can vary the temp readings quite a lot by varying the angles and depth of the wand. That is one of the things I meant with my earlier comments about steaming with a 7000:-

    Sunbeam em7000 coffee pressure gauge

    "To my mind the 7000 is a typical half assed automatic - if you don't know how to make coffee they will give you something "more or less" drinkable (even more so with the "auto steam wand" - grrrrr...). The more you know the more the 7000 gets in the way. I did tame mine (a domestic imperative based purely on noise level), however even after 2+ "7000 years" every time I go back to my La Pav 2 group or anyones 6910 I smile. Says it all really."

    I would only add after the La Pav "also any LM, or Electra, or La Cimbali or ...."


    TampIt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brissienew View Post
    IMO, coffee machines have a high chance of breaking down within a few years so it is worth getting the extended warranty. My EM7000 developed a problem with the steam wand being slow to shut off. It took them a month to fix even though it may had been a simple fix. Same problem recurred a few months later. I didn't bother getting it fix initially as I didn't want to be without my machine and had to resort to using my back up Nespresso machine. Eventually I got sick of the problem, and then I saw the Bes 920 on sale for cheap. I had the option of getting a replacement machine or having it fixed again. I thought I would try my luck with asking to be paid out rather than getting a replacement em7000. Much to my surprise they agreed! So I got lucky.
    A quick point here - using some rather unfathomable logic*, SB usually adjusts the control pin for the steam knob on a 7000 so it doesn't shut off instantly. The one on mine annoyed me once too often, luckily after I had thought it through a little. Mine now shuts off instantly and then purges a little bit of low pressure steam 2 or 3 seconds after the steam is shut off. That helps keep crap out of the steam wand (even if I get a bit slack - hopefully rarely). If SB set theirs up like that on both the 6910 and the 7000 it would be a seriously smart move...

    One of the 6910's potential failings: poor steaming technique (as demonstrated so brilliantly in their own 6910 DVD) = totally clogged steam wand. Some of the worst ones I have seen needed fairly serious chemical surgery to clear the encrusted milk out - the crap went "up around the bend". Nothing is truly idiot proof.

    TampIt
    *Unfathomable logic: Myself and a good friend originally suggested the following technique to deal with the stress when having to change the spark plugs on an early Toyota Tarago (for those who don't know - first you drop the engine out to access the plugs... almost as stupid as the BMW with the battery in the boot, what else did they think would happen?). If you added enough LSD to your coffee and balanced it with Valium it would help you comprehend the logic. If not, at least the stupidity would not depress you too much.
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    Having read the above posts it seems obvious to buy these Breville and Sunbeam consumer convenience machines with extended warranty as I did when replacing my three year old Bes870 with another one. But remember the extended warranty has an exclusion if you do not "maintain any servicing on your Product that may be described in the manufacturer's instructions ". As quoted from my Harvey Norman extended warranty document.
    Last edited by WarrenK; 23rd July 2017 at 10:40 AM. Reason: After thought

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