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Thread: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

  1. #51
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    I think we need to source some of this stuff for insulating our boilers!

    http://www.mauricewardstarlite.blogspot.com/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4nnLP--uTI


    Java "I want some!" phile

  2. #52
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Wow! :o

    Thats magic stuff Java... Where can we get it from?

    Mal.

  3. #53
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    No idea Mal. Its been known now for well over 20 years and still has no public market that I can find. I suspect the military/government has taken it over and made it their own. Its far too handy and desirable a material not to have been marketed.


    Java "Inquiring minds want to know!" phile

  4. #54
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    This article explains very well the story of starlite.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/5158972/Starlite-the-nuclear-blast-defying-plastic-that-could-change-the-world.html

    heres a interesting fact about its insulation properties

    Starlite has a Q-value [an energy absorption rating] of 2,470. The space shuttle tiles have a Q-value of 1. Not only that, but because Starlite is so lightweight – 1mm thick, compared to 75mm for the space tiles – its actually 2,470 x 75 times better.

  5. #55
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    A month or so of noise over it 2 years ago and then once again silence. I can think of so many uses just around the home for this its crazy. Talk about a revolution in insulating.


    Java "Wow!" phile

  6. #56
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Hi guys,
    I have some of the sund deading stuff thats been touted around this site.
    I have had a look at it and it looks like a sheet of aliminium foil with a thick bitumen backing.
    The bitumen stuff stinks to high heaven when you have close mell of it.

    I am just worried that the high tempertures on the machine might make it realise a terrible smell in the kitchen. My wife is pregnant at the moment, so I dont want to risk it.

    Has anyone had an experince of a bad smell coming from the machine after installing the sound deadening material?

    Cheers
    Rob

  7. #57
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A4B4B575E3B0 link=1258726137/55#55 date=1309400781
    I am just worried that the high tempertures on the machine might make it realise a terrible smell in the kitchen. My wife is pregnant at the moment, so I dont want to risk it.
    No mate, not the slightest whiff... ;)

    If you take up on the partner topic of this thread, insulating your boiler will reduce the internal air temperature significantly and reduce the possibility (if it really exists) even further... 8-)

    Mal.

  8. #58
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Hi Rob,

    The sound deadening material I used had no smell cold and no smell hot.

    Greg

  9. #59
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Sorry for opening an old post
    Im thinking about using dynamat on the inside of the shell of my machine like lots of cs but from reading the thread and a bit of research I cant seem to find out if more is better? Or are small squares normally used due to cost

    thanks

  10. #60
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Insulated my Giotto PP last week using insul-brite.

    Like Greg I opted for this to allow me to work around all of the connections and achieve a low mess outcome.

    I used 2 and 4 layers (2 in the front of the boiler where it was tight getting it down between the front panel), and insulated the ends as well.

    Cycle times improved (forgot to measure before sorry), and noise is damped considerably being lower in tone and volume with less ringing and vibration.

    I have not added dynamat but consider a heavy substrate like that would be excellent for absorbing direct sound energy and energy transmitted into the panels. Might be my next step :).

  11. #61
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    oops... forgot to mention another option..

    Take the top off, pump in expanding high temp insulating foam or fiberglass. Let it expand and set then trim off level to fit the top.

    Not great for maintenance and may put your espresso temp at the group out of wack but it would do the job well ;D

  12. #62
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Quote Originally Posted by 3E39362B6E6A6A6E5F0 link=1258726137/58#58 date=1338013200
    Sorry for opening an old post
    Im thinking about using dynamat on the inside of the shell of my machine like lots of cs but from reading the thread and a bit of research I cant seem to find out if more is better? Or are small squares normally used due to cost

    thanks
    The instructions say that small amounts are enough to damp large areas. I figured if it worked for cars...

    Greg

  13. #63
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    thanks Greg, dynamat arrived in post today

  14. #64
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    Re: Boiler insulation & noise dampening

    Quote Originally Posted by 407562605068756A666B63070 link=1258726137/61#61 date=1338543727
    Quote Originally Posted by 3E39362B6E6A6A6E5F0 link=1258726137/58#58 date=1338013200
    Sorry for opening an old post
    Im thinking about using dynamat on the inside of the shell of my machine like lots of cs but from reading the thread and a bit of research I cant seem to find out if more is better? Or are small squares normally used due to cost
    thanks
    The instructions say that small amounts are enough to damp large areas. I figured if it worked for cars...
    Greg
    This is correct, Dynamat doesnt work by blocking the sound, it works by increasing the mass of the panel to reduce transmitted vibrations, and also makes the mass distribution across the panel non-uniform which damps any potential resonances.

  15. #65
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Has anyone used bubble wrap for boiler heat insulation?

    Or as noise suppression of the water pump?

    Thanks

  16. #66
    TC
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    Bubble wrap has a melting point of about 2 deg C. Don't go there!
    chokkidog likes this.

  17. #67
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    Has anyone used bubble wrap for boiler heat insulation?
    ........... and lived, to tell the tale? ;-)

    Smokey...... don't play with fire!!! :-D
    Dragunov21 likes this.

  18. #68
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    Expanding foam could make a big mess. Don't go there.....

  19. #69
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    Did my DC Mini today.

    I picked up 4 square feet of Stinger branded sound dampening adhesive from Autobarn for $50.
    I have not completely finished cause i wanted to drink coffee though so i just undid the 6 screws on the sides and lifted the outer case off and completely covered the panel from the bottom and left around 6cm from the top. I also covered the underside of the metal panel that sits between the boiler and the cup tray.

    The result is a much sturdier sounding machine and less of that tinny vibration sound. The sound it makes now is that low pitched sound that the vibe pump used to make just as it ran out of water. Slightly disturbing for the first 5 seconds but much appreciated by the ears now

    The next time i will put some around the pump area to see if i can reduce the volume more.
    I will also make sure i take a couple of pictures while i am at it.
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  20. #70
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I got some of the Stinger Expert Roadkill deadener. I applied it to my Bezzera Domus Galatea, it made a marked difference to the sound of the machine. There is a buzzing somewhere inside that I could not locate to isolate, maybe its just a slightly noisy pump, but it was certainly worth the effort. I applied it to side and rear outer panels, the vertical panel between the tank and boiler, along with any other metal sheeting that resonated when tapped with a finger. I found the source of a somewhat random horrible loud noise in the process. I inserted an in tank water softener, and this was at times vibrating against the side/base of the water tank, the tank was acting like a drum!

    Cheers

  21. #71
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    In 2009 i lagged my Faema Due boiler with Armoflex HT - closed cell foam about half an inch chick. Resulted in pressurestat triggering about once every 4 mins as opposed to every two mins. Checked 'under da hood' the other day and some of it has gone hard where the really high temp areas are but still doing its job.

    Cheers

  22. #72
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    Hello,

    Do you know who sell the insulation foam in Australia? Needed some for my home lever machine. Thanks

  23. #73
    TOK
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    Just be aware that insulating an espresso machine boiler is not the simple nirvana that some seem to think.

    When you insulate something that wasn't insulated to start with, you change the designed heating cycle dynamic. Depending on the internal design of your particular model, insulating the boiler may be helpful in some way, and then again it may not. For example, insulation in some machines causes them to overshoot the designed temperature cut off point by a significant margin, causing whatever related problems that it will, and necessitating other internal changes / modifications to try and work that back down to an acceptable situation.

    That is, beware that every action has a reaction, and its not the same for all different models. Determine first what you are trying to achieve by insulating, weigh up whether its really "worth it" just because its a subject that is occasionally discussed in forums, and be prepared that the behaviour of the machine may change in some way.
    Dimal likes this.

  24. #74
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    Boiler Insulation - Armaflex or equivalent

    Does anyone know of a convenient source for some boiler insulation - I have looked around but unless I want a full role of it then it is difficult to find. I only need to insulate one 5 Litre boiler.

    I did some searching and it seems Armaflex was recommended - anybody have any other recommendations that are easily sourced?

    Its for a Aurora Lever.

    Cheers

  25. #75
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  26. #76
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Thanks - I finally tracked down some from an A/C Supply shop.
    Cheers

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