Sure is.... And this is why drinking water filtration generally doesn't cut it. Expobar Minore 4 or 5 years on tap water.
I'm going through checking the boxes before I make a purchase for a new machine.
I currently use a Brita A1000 drinking water filter under my sink, I was expecting to replace this with a Brita C150 kit, Is the C150 suitable for drinking water as well ?
Sure is.... And this is why drinking water filtration generally doesn't cut it. Expobar Minore 4 or 5 years on tap water.
Last edited by TC; 27th April 2014 at 04:10 PM.
Hi Talk_Coffee, would the the c150 be overkill for Sydney (inner west) where the water is considered soft? I was about to purchase a 'basic' two stage kit (sediment and carbon filter) before I saw this thread.
Given I'm limited to a countertop system, will a 2 stage system reduce scale and specifically what kind of filter?
I am also after some filtration and the price for the c150 kit is far to high for what I'm willing to spend on tap water. I like the price point and idea of the countertop unit but it seems it only softens water and doesn't remove taste or odours.
Chris, is it easy enough to use one of the C150 filters without the included tap, and just hook it up to the mains mixer tap? I understand it would be slightly wasteful, but in my laundry the sink is rarely used so it could be almost solely for my machine tank fill ups. I haven't yet looked at the LPM rating but I guess it's going so slow the tap down a fair bit.
I am buying a Big Berkey gravity fed system from the US for my drinking needs as it offers the best filtration for my circumstances, It doesn't soften the water though. Is there a way to do that to the water after the Berkey filters it?
In the interest of improving the life time of my coffee machine, what are my options when it comes to feeding it water that's the healthiest for it?
Water filters? What are my options here, in particular for a machine that is not plumbed in? Do you use one of these jugs with a filter in it?
Using distilled water? I've heard it mentioned a number of times that one of the issues with using distilled water is that some water level sensors may not work since without the minerals the water won't be conducting electricity, and the machine will report there is no water and stop.
Boiling the water first, ie in a kettle, let it cool down and fill up the tank with this water? Would it make any difference?
Any other ideas, crazy or not?
I personally use the Brita C150 kit. Have been very happy with it over the last 2 years.
Or you could reach out to a filtration specialist for advice.
What is best for you will also depend on where you are and what the local supply is like.
In theory yes, boiling the water will remove most of the scale forming elements, but it is very energy inefficient (it also won't remove residual particulate matter). You're much better off buying a filtration system as outlined above.
Hello,I've only ever used rain water in combination with first flush diverted,never need to de scale again......yes it's true!
I do back flushing regularly,that's it,all very easy....if you have rain water on hand though.
Some residential areas may be in close proximity to airborne pollutants however,diverted normally catches that,or you could use the filter jug to solve that also.
All my thirty or so espresso appliances use rain water and are spotless !
The reason pre-boiling the water came to mind is because that's what I do with the water I drink; boil it and let it cool down before putting it in my drink bottle. Tastes way better than straight from the tap, and I think it get's rid of some non-wanted chemicals too. I thought that might be healthy for my coffee machine too, even if it doesn't remove the problem all together.
My concept of scale was that it is primarily caused by bicarbonate salts of calcium and magnesium. As carbonic acid exists as an equilibrium between H2CO3 (aq) - CO2 (aq) - CO2 (g), boiling the water will drive the equation to the right by removing CO2 as gas. Calcium bicarbonate is then turned into calcium carbonate which is far less soluble and drops out of solution (this is probably more complicated - other Ca salts might also be involved).
As stated above I am not advocating preboiling water as a effective means of water treatment, I just said in theory most of the scale will be removed.
My chemistry knowledge has faded, but when I said that I think boiling the water gets rid of some non-wanted chemicals, that's the sort of thing that came to mind - boiling may alter the chemicals that cause scaling.
Good point about scaling in the kettle - that must remove some of it.
It may be a waste of time and energy to boil your water before using it in your espresso machine, but you never know what comes out of discussing "crazy" ideas
Boil away! Be mindful though that an espresso machine is not a kettle and that it is subjected to pressure along with frequent heating and cooling cycles.
We're happy to get the scale back out- at a cost
"first flush diverted" is another small water holding tank,usually fifty to hundred litre size,the first fifty to hundred litre of rain which is usually contaminated by bird droppings/dust/anthing else from your roof catchment is diverted to a slow drain storage tank .
Once the diverter tank is completely filled a great big ball,usually stryene foam,blocks off the diverted water flow,directing the continuing rainfall into the main tank,resulting in far cleaner stored water.
My system also have a leaf/large debris catcher/strainer in line ,which I need to clear from time to time.
There are many systems available and on the market,do the search and you will find lots.
I sincerely believe rain water ,correctly harvested and stored ,is both better tasting and far less detrimental to any hot water appliances.
There you have it,also provides fresh and clear drinking water for family.
Nice one, Mick!
The bottom of this design would have a screw end cap or some kind of large bore tap/cock (or both) that can be unscrewed, opened, to allow the garbage to be emptied from the diverter pipe in readiness for the next downpour...
In this example, each downpipe on the house would have one.
OR, a larger single unit can be built downstream of the house and somewhere before the entry to the water tank...same effect.
I've just purchased the Brita C150 kit commercial link removed per site posting policy plus some extra 1/4" John Guest bits (tees, shutoff valves, extra tubing, etc). My plan is to split the output from the filter three ways to go to the kitchen sink tap (included in the kit), the fridge, and, eventually, a plumbable espresso machine. I don't have the plumbable machine yet, but plan to purchase in the next couple of months, probably a Rocket Evoluzione. The kit comes with a "multifunction valve" which allows a tee off from the mixer tap line. I'm pretty sure it's this one commercial link removed per site posting policy which includes a 650kPa PLV.
My understanding from reading various forum posts is that the Evoluzione requires a 350kPa PLV. Is this correct? My fridge came with a 350kPa PLV with 1/4" JG connectors (it looks similar to this one commercial link removed per site posting policy). I'm wondering whether it's ok to use this and put it in line somewhere after the 650kPa valve. I'm thinking the right place to put it would be after the filter and tee off to the kitchen sink so that only the water for the espresso machine and fridge go through it, i.e.
650kPa PLV tee ==> filter ==> tee off to kitchen tap ==> 350kPa PLV ==> tee off to espresso machine and fridge
Does this seem reasonable? Anything else I should watch out for?
Last edited by Javaphile; 17th April 2015 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed
Quickly emptying them manually wouldn't be too bad either, as long as you make sure you do it before the next rain comes!
Nice, thanks for the drawing!
No wuckens .
Note that if you use a slow drain, certainly that drains out dust and pollens (they cause a lot of trouble because they act like a cement in gutters, glueing leaves and pine needles and other stuff together effectively bogging things up) and dissolved crap (literally) in the water, that will simply come out as dirty water. However a slow drain leaves all the big stuff in there (leaves, sticks from overhead trees etc) that wont come out by themselves. I prefer the sudden rush of water when I unscrew the end cap, which has more chance of bringing the solid items with it...
We have pine trees close by and the guttering gets bogged up with a lot of needles. So that's why I prefer the the sudden rush approach over the dribble approach Depends on the individual situation.
Yep, makes sense.
Nice. Looks pretty much like in your drawing. Cheers
Let me suggest that you read the sticky thread "Filtration for Espresso Machines--Compulsory Reading" above.
Yep, missed that one. Crosslinking; Merged
Last edited by Javaphile; 26th April 2015 at 06:35 AM. Reason: Merged
Currently I use a resin replaceable cartridge from Bombara fridge filters but about every second one has a leak from the John Guest fitting at the output end. I have replaced the 'o' ring and the piping to no avail. This makes the annual replacement filter expensive and could ruin my kitchen cabinets if a slight leak not detected.
The supplier for our under sink filtration unit has said to use one of their carbon and phosphate filter cartridges. He said it does not affect the taste but holds the scale chemicals in suspension ( my words) so they don't form scale.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated in my care of my espresso machine
Best idea is to check your TH (total hardness). This will assist selection for a good softening filter. Chlorine? Check chlorine (my TH here isn't bad but the chlorine is very high). I'm lucky to have a water quality chemist who does lab work for the council across the street so we collude.
Then, guesstimate your consumption in litres and this will provide an excellent base to select a filter system.
I've been reading this thread with great interest. I live in Melbourne and am looking for a portable water filter, and I note that some previous postings mention or suggest Aqua Pro Benchtop.
My questions are that it is good enough? Does it significantly make the tap water "more friendly" to the machine? And will the use of such filter badly change the taste of the water? I saw one posting saying that the water had tasted like carbon.
Appreciate any comments. Thanks.
Last edited by kopiku; 25th April 2016 at 03:13 PM.
Will likely cost me or someone else a sale, but if it was just 2 or 3 months, the $$$ equation will probably favour a suitable bottled water alternative and I think that's what I'd be doing.
It's also what I do with my travel machine...
Forgot to ask. Does a brita jug sold in supermarket help? I know (as per the previous postings) that this is only good for a limited period, but is it still good for, say, 200 liters? Anyone knows the limit of the jug? I am considering the most economical option. Thanks.
I have an electric powered UV water filtration system and it works well for 3 years
This raises two questions in my mind. What level hardness should I be targeting for my espresso machine, since clearly is is possible to have water that's too soft? Related to this, how soft must mains water be before you'd dispense with a softening filter?
I ask this because I live in a location where the water is soft, and I've just moved into a new house in a new development, and the water here measures as very soft. If I use a softening filter then the filtered water measures as incredibly soft and the coffee taste suffers.
Java "Monkey Wrench" phile
Toys! I must have new toys!!!
The point I was actually trying to make, was that a lot of manufacturers depend on conductance to maintain and control the water level inside the Boiler(s), as well as a Safety Cutout should the water level get too low and expose the Heating Element...
Therefore, a minimum availability of ions in the water is needed...
The discussion has wandered away from my main question. The comment about needing some ions for measurement was just an incident observation in line with post 62 in this thread, for example. In short, my question was: softer water is better, for machine cleanliness, but only up to a point, where it starts to impacts on taste, so ... what's that point????
After all, no-one uses unmodified RO water, do they? This is partly because it's bad for the machine, but also because it doesn't taste any good. I did for a short time try double filtering, which must have resulted in water that was close to RO, and the coffee was pretty flat and boring. Some mineral content is necessary. The reason I'm asking this question now, is that I live in a location where the water utility reports soft water (42ppm) and I've recently moved into a newish house in a newish development with new clean pipes and the water is measuring something like 25ppm, give or take. Using a known blend, the coffee isn't tasting as good as it used to, and I suspect that the mains water is a touch too soft. How soft is too soft?