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Thread: Filtration for Espresso Machines- Compulsory Reading

  1. #151
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Not in the Boiler(s) though...

    Mal.
    Javaphile tosses a wrench into the discussion......In all of the multi-group La Cimbali's that I have seen the water level switch/sensor is a float in the boiler with a magnet attached to it that opens/closes a magnetic switch on the outside of the boiler.


    Java "Monkey Wrench" phile
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    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Javaphile tosses a wrench into the discussion......In all of the multi-group La Cimbali's that I have seen the water level switch/sensor is a float in the boiler with a magnet attached to it that opens/closes a magnetic switch on the outside of the boiler.
    Profitec and ECM machines have magnetic sensors in the water tanks. Expobars shut off when the water tank weight drops too low.
    Lots of mechanisms out there.
    Cheers, Paul

  3. #153
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    The point I was actually trying to make, was that a lot of manufacturers depend on conductance to maintain and control the water level inside the Boiler(s), as well as a Safety Cutout should the water level get too low and expose the Heating Element...

    Therefore, a minimum availability of ions in the water is needed...

    Mal.

  4. #154
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    Thanks for the clarification Mal. Appreciated

  5. #155
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    The discussion has wandered away from my main question. The comment about needing some ions for measurement was just an incident observation in line with post 62 in this thread, for example. In short, my question was: softer water is better, for machine cleanliness, but only up to a point, where it starts to impacts on taste, so ... what's that point????

    After all, no-one uses unmodified RO water, do they? This is partly because it's bad for the machine, but also because it doesn't taste any good. I did for a short time try double filtering, which must have resulted in water that was close to RO, and the coffee was pretty flat and boring. Some mineral content is necessary. The reason I'm asking this question now, is that I live in a location where the water utility reports soft water (42ppm) and I've recently moved into a newish house in a newish development with new clean pipes and the water is measuring something like 25ppm, give or take. Using a known blend, the coffee isn't tasting as good as it used to, and I suspect that the mains water is a touch too soft. How soft is too soft?

  6. #156
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep, fair 'nuff Gunda...

    Have a read through Jim's Insanely Long Water FAQ linked to above somewhere but provided here again....

    Almost a treatise on the subject but a good read nonetheless...

    Mal.
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  7. #157
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    Filtration for Espresso Machines- Compulsory Reading

    Hi guys,
    I am going to fire up an old thread here. I have read the ins and outs of water filtration on this forum and am chasing some advice.

    I currently have a drinking water filter which I have established is not suitable for longevity of espresso machines. My water out of the tap has a GH of 125ppm, alkalinity of 7.5, and a TDS of 300ppm.

    My two questions are do I need a filter system with this level of hardness, and if so is the Brita C150 a suitable option?
    Last edited by Boggas; 19th July 2016 at 08:02 AM.

  8. #158
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quick answer.
    A filter system will save big $ on maintenance costs down the line.
    The Brita C150 is perfect. That's what I run at home.
    Link: https://sites.google.com/site/thekbean/filtration

  9. #159
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    The C150 costs a few bucks but there's a reason for it. Just read up and you'll understand why it's worthwhile. See below for a pic of a C150 cartridge beside a "standard" water filter:

    And look what's going on inside the C150 PURITY finest:

  10. #160
    Member Boggas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    The C150 costs a few bucks but there's a reason for it. Just read up and you'll understand why it's worthwhile. See below for a pic of a C150 cartridge beside a "standard" water filter:

    And look what's going on inside the C150 PURITY finest:
    Thanks for the info, it seems a C150 is worth the cash.

    It is interesting that you mention the difference between other filters and the C150. For interests sake I tested the water in and out of my current filter which is a 3 stage sub micron filter which includes a softening stage, and is not a whole lot cheaper than the C150.

    The results showed no change to GH or TDS. I suspect that if I tested immediately after a new cartridge is fitted I would see some improvement but obviously it can only soften a small volume of water.

    I think this really highlights what many sponsors have already stated, that a high quality drinking filter is not necessarily suitable for espresso machine use.
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  11. #161
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boggas View Post
    I think this really highlights what many sponsors have already stated, that a high quality drinking filter is not necessarily suitable for espresso machine use.
    Spot on.
    I'm my former life as a scientist I had a lab filtration system with particle filters, carbon filters and a DI resin tank at the end. If the DI resin got saturated (ie, stopped working) the result was lab equipment coated in scale.

  12. #162
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    Just got the C150 Finest recently - was concerned about the replacement cartridge cost but seeing the size of it and rated capacity I though it was ok. 1100 L at a water hardness rated double of what I have here locally, so I'm good for ages. Plus manufacturers would build in a decent factor of safety with capacity, the bean counters too probably encouraging early swap over.

  13. #163
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Usually rated at 12 months or x litres whatever comes first.

  14. #164
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    Hi,

    I am just wondering whether water with 0 ppm is good for an espresso machine? I've been using this water for about month, and it's so far so food.

    Thanks.

  15. #165
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopiku View Post
    Hi,

    I am just wondering whether water with 0 ppm is good for an espresso machine? I've been using this water for about month, and it's so far so food.

    Thanks.
    All depends what it's 0ppm of!

    In general, machines use electrical signals to sense the presence of water. For example, many boilers employ a probe which earths on contact with water informing the control board to halt the boiler fill process. No conductivity = overfill.

    You need some stuff in water and to use something approaching distilled is a no go.
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  16. #166
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    Absolutely.

    As water increases in purity it also becomes more of a solvent, and wants to leach things out of metals it contacts. This is particularly bad with stainless steel and the strange metallurgy around welds. Thus it's a very very bad idea to use non-remineralised RO in your expensive multiboiler LM, synesso etc. and of course same is true for domestic machinery. Everything in moderation!
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  17. #167
    Site Sponsor coffee_machinist's Avatar
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    Also the coffee tastes better with balanced mineral content but thats boring
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  18. #168
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    Thanks for the replies

  19. #169
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I have been using the c150 underbench kit for almost 2 years now with my r58 plumbed in.
    However we just sold our house and will be renting for a little while till our new place is built.

    So i wont be able to plumb in the machine and dont want to be setting up the the c150 kit on the kitchen tap which will also be used to wash dishes etc.

    So was wondering if the aqua pro benchtop setup will be as good to protect the machine from scale build up

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