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Thread: ONA coffee distributor

  1. #51
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    Are they breaching copyright Matt? I'm not sure. Does OCD have a patent? I'm not sure about that either but they probably do. I found heaps of coffee distributors out there in a similar way there are heaps of tampers. For $35 I'm happy to see if its something I like and what want to stick with but $160 (or $210 for OCD v2) is a lot of money to just test something. As I said I'm happy to buy an OCD if I like it. Purchasing is a personal thing. If someone has provided good service but someone else has the same product for a substantial amount less then I'll go where there's good value. Some items that need constant servicing eg coffee machines and cars then I'll go to the place with the best service regardless of price. I don't think I've broken any of my own ethical standards here.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    ONA coffee distributor

    Dunno about copyright - I would assume Sasa did the paperwork for his creation but you never know. There's certainly a huge difference between a similar but distinct product like the Chisel and the direct-from-china clones though.

    I do know that in other fields blatant copyright-infringing copies are sold via web and even in brick-and-mortar stores (e.g. knog invented the modern silicon-covered blinky bike light; direct (but inferior) copies of their lights are sold openly in $2 shops). Quite infuriating and very difficult to do anything about.

    Agree 100%, it's a personal call and I'm largely influenced by having lots of mates in industries that are affected by copies.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    It's not so much a copyright issue. It is (potentially) an issue of patent infringement. And China does bugger all to stop firms based there from infringing patents that have cost someone quite a bit of money and time to develop.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    It's not so much a copyright issue. It is (potentially) an issue of patent infringement. And China does bugger all to stop firms based there from infringing patents that have cost someone quite a bit of money and time to develop.
    If I may, I have some experience with this. Things have tightened up considerably with regards patent protection within China. If you have a valid patent within China you can prevent items being manufactured there, in fact it would probably never get to the manufacturing stage. A manufacturer is just that, they are not in the business of trawling coffee forums each day looking for items. Someone somewhere has given them a purchase order to do this or that. If there is no china patent then the manufacturer will see no issue with production. The moral issue never enters the equation, that would be a matter for their customer.

    I remember back in 2009 when I first made my Cafelat items. My corner mat idea was copied within 2-3 months first of all by a US parts company, then an Italian manuf and so on. I have lost count how many copies there are. No patent, nothing I can do. We just try and make the highest quality one there is. However to this day I still pay my designer in Denmark a % of each mat/knockbox I sell - I am locked in whereas XYZ company in the US paid no development fees or royalties and can sell at will. Almost all my knockoffs come from non-chinese companies.

    An example of how it work is my first milk pitcher, the one that bulges at the middle. We did do a China design patent. One of our prolific copycats who had by this time copied our mats and knockboxes could not copy that milk jug design. We had heard they were trying to make it. In the end, through a 3rd party company, they cheekily asked us to produce for them!!

    I have no real opinion on the OCD tool. But from what I gather the original was from a Taiwanese coffee forum several years ago. Of course taking something from a 3D tool to production is a big leap so respect is due for that. It sucks big time, I know how it feels. You just hope that at the end of the day people will respect that and buy yours instead.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Great info, thanks all.

    I absolutely bloody love my Cafelat jug btw @PaulPratt - bought direct from Andy at MICE last year when I didn't even have a machine!

  6. #56
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    I found so many varieties of these including, Macaron, Macaroon, Wingkin, Ivy, OCD, Chisel, Ivykin, Kyhardwares, Mahlgut etc etc etc. Not all of these are Chinese. One is even from Denmark. I'm sure there were models that had the micro adjusting before OCD's first model which uses shims. They then upgraded theirs to include that. You could argue that they were copying others or "keeping up with the joneses". So which ones were first? Which ones are breaching patency? Should I feel guilty for buying a clone or is it a clone? Should I support a sponsor all of the time? I'll leave that up to the individuals moral codes.

  7. #57
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  8. #58
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    I don't get it! That's basically a funnel that you can spin for some reason. I can't see that catching on like the distributors have.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    If you read the article you would see it had agitators to level the dose. More than just a funnel. Higher tds as well which is opposite to the ocd
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  10. #60
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    As usual the article was short on detail. However, a web search will reveal that the funnel has a bar across the bottom which serves to level the dose. An additional feature might be to have needle like fingers down from the bar to actually rake through the dose. SaintAnthony Industries also have another levelling tool like the OCD.

  11. #61
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Who wants to buy my ONA v1 with grip hack so I can try out the SAI shot collar? I can see I'd need to adjust down the portafilter rest on my grinder to fit that shot collar. Or get a new grinder too
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  12. #62
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    I'll bite!
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  13. #63
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    A local alternative to SAI is Artisansmith, who will also do you a shot collar with distributor, other dosing tools, shot funnels and even a leveller.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    If you read the article you would see it had agitators to level the dose. More than just a funnel. Higher tds as well which is opposite to the ocd
    I watched the video instead and the end result didn't seem too level to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee0s9myaJM8

    Also, dosing into a cup first and not directly into the basket breaks my "keep it simple" rule. Even using the OCD type products breaks that rule too but I'm curious to try it. All I do at that moment is dose and tamp. Just like this video ....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wGNOLR3yh8

    No chopping, stirring, banging, swiping, shaking, levelling or standing on my head.

    BTW, The Artisansmith leveller looks very similar to a Pullman Chisel. Another one!!!
    Last edited by barri; 9th April 2017 at 07:05 AM.
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  15. #65
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I watched the video instead and it didn't seem too level to me.
    Almost like they tried to fade to black in time to avoid showing the actual result but just missed it eh.

    I'm for experimentation and whatever works - simple is always better all other things being equal. I get much better results dosing into a container rather than directly into the p/f even though that was a large part of the motivation to upgrade to a digital timer, doserless grinder!
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  16. #66
    Senior Member Logga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I watched the video instead and it didn't seem too level to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee0s9myaJM8

    Also, dosing into a cup first and not directly into the basket breaks my "keep it simple" rule. Even using the OCD type products breaks that rule too but I'm curious to try it. All I do at that moment is dose and tamp. Just like this video ....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wGNOLR3yh8

    No chopping, stirring, banging, swiping, shaking, levelling or standing on my head.
    Yeah there are a few videos on it, I wouldnít get hung up on that one, Iíve seen one where it levels pretty good. They grind straight into the shot collar.
    But any way I have ordered one and they tell me it should be here around the 18th April so after a bit of a play Iíll let you know what I think. It doesnít bother me if it works or not, I just like trying new stuff.
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  17. #67
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    Yes, I love my gadgets. My wife has nearly banned me from watching those infomercials where they throw in steak knives through fear I'll buy everything. I've got all the coffee gadgets eg eazytamp, the great leveller, funnels, coffee catcha and now on order, a palm tamper and OCD equivalent. Like Javaphile says "I must have more toys".

    Given that, Logga, look forward to your report
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  18. #68
    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    It's a sickness to be sure 🤣
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  19. #69
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    My wife has nearly banned me from watching those infomercials where they throw in steak knives through fear I'll buy everything.
    I often wonder who buys that cr*p, it certainly ain't me.
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  20. #70
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    FWIW, I got the OCD V2 at Mice (cheaper from Bombora; 165 I think.) i looked at the pullman chisel as well and went with the OCD as is it had a better hand feel.

    It's a great gadget, but only worth the price if you're the kind who thinks spending 2k or more on a home coffee machine is a good idea. Grounds do stick to it, but it's a negligible amount that a quick wipe takes care of easily. Personally, I love it. It does what it is supposed to and I feel that once I got things dialed in, it is making my pulls out of the Strega more consistent. I can now easily see visually if I'm a few tenths of a gram short on grinds, as the basket won't be 100% flat and smooth.

    TLDR: Happy with my purchase, but only buy if you have the disposable income. It's not a "need to have" item.
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  21. #71
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    $165 buys an awful lot of great coffee from CS...

    Mal.

  22. #72
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    $165 buys an awful lot of great coffee from CS...

    Mal.
    My thoughts exactly Mal, I started down the path of acquiring discretionary knick knacks early on in my coffee career, soon came to the conclusion that I was buying this stuff to (hopfully) compensate for my lack of skill, all they seemed to do was complicate what really is quite a straight forward process.
    Last edited by Yelta; 11th April 2017 at 11:04 AM.
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  23. #73
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I'm happy to sell anyone my non-patented distribution tool, which can also be used to skewer pieces of cabbanossi.
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  24. #74
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I'm happy to sell anyone my non-patented distribution tool, which can also be used to skewer pieces of cabbanossi.
    Would also make an interesting paper weight.

  25. #75
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    Coffee making methods are a personal choice. I wouldn't use a sarcastic tone or give unhelpful comments to someone who makes coffees or uses gadgets differently to me. Whatever works for you is fine.

    Each to their own.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    Coffee making methods are a personal choice. I wouldn't use a sarcastic tone or give unhelpful comments to someone who makes coffees or uses gadgets differently to me. Whatever works for you is fine.

    Each to their own.
    Yep exactly barri, im with you mate.
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  27. #77
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    Coffee making methods are a personal choice. I wouldn't use a sarcastic tone or give unhelpful comments to someone who makes coffees or uses gadgets differently to me. Whatever works for you is fine.

    Each to their own.

    Not having a go at anyone. Just laughinig at my own primitive approach. I've bought more gadgets than the average bear. Some I use regularly (i.e. dosing funnel).
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  28. #78
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Not having a go at anyone. Just laughinig at my own primitive approach. I've bought more gadgets than the average bear. Some I use regularly (i.e. dosing funnel).
    Nor am I Barry! my post #73 genuinely relates my early experience, if others choose to see it as sarcasm so be it.

    When it comes to espresso, I am a strong believer in the KISS principle, pretty sure I have enough runs on the board to validate my beliefs.
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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Nor am I Barry! my post #73 genuinely relates my early experience, if others choose to see it as sarcasm so be it.

    When it comes to espresso, I am a strong believer in the KISS principle, pretty sure I have enough runs on the board to validate my beliefs.
    Post 73 is a good one Yelta and you do have runs on the board but post 75 is the one that got under my skin a bit. deh1974 is entitled to spend $165 which he's indicated he can afford for something he now really likes. Calling it a paper weight doesn't help others who are interested in this product as I am. I was really interested in hearing from someone who actually owns it and likes it

  30. #80
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Actually I think he was technically calling Barry's toothpick a paperweight seeing as that's the post he quoted! I had a laugh!
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  31. #81
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Actually I think he was technically calling Barry's toothpick a paperweight seeing as that's the post he quoted! I had a laugh!
    So did I, went straight through to the keeper.

  32. #82
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    In that case I'll take a chill pill.
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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I've always followed the motto that you get what you pay for 99% of the time. This might be the 1%. I'll report back when I've got it.
    Arrived today from China, 13 days from ordering. I can now say that this is definitely the 1%. Very solidly built and it does exactly what it says. This compares more than favourably to the OCD V2.0 and at $35 vs $210 its a no brainer. I don't really want to talk about whether its a must have or not. I'll let others decide that but it has definitely made my shots more consistent. Many of my other gadgets were great to start with but are now gathering dust in the back of a drawer. This might end up the same way but at the moment I really like it and I can see myself using it a lot longer than the others.

    IMG_20170418_192504.jpgIMG_20170418_192521.jpg

    EDIT ...... I have had so many PMs about this. Not surprised but I'd like them to stop. Simply Google "coffee distribution tool" or "macaron design tamper" and look at the images. You'll see it!
    Last edited by barri; 19th April 2017 at 12:43 PM.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I don't really want to talk about whether its a must have or not. I'll let others decide that but it has definitely made my shots more consistent. Many of my other gadgets were great to start with but are now gathering dust in the back of a drawer. This might end up the same way but at the moment I really like it and I can see myself using it a lot longer than the others
    I've had one of those since mid last year. I agree about making shots more consistent. It eliminated my occasional awful shot and allowed me to fine tune other variables more because distribution was less of a variable. At $35 I figured it was worth trying out, and since the day it arrived it hasn't been put away in the cupboard, not because my distribution couldn't be otherwise improved, but because a brainless 2s addition to my routine is easier to keep consistent at 5:something in the morning when I'm trying to get out the door.
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  35. #85
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Well, either I'm a big ol' hypocrite or the discussion here has persuaded me; I've ordered the same direct-from-factory generic distro tool mentioned above.
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  36. #86
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    Coffee making methods are a personal choice. I wouldn't use a sarcastic tone or give unhelpful comments to someone who makes coffees or uses gadgets differently to me. Whatever works for you is fine.

    Each to their own.
    But what if you're all wrong?!!??!!
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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Well, either I'm a big ol' hypocrite or the discussion here has persuaded me; I've ordered the same direct-from-factory generic distro tool mentioned above.
    Good one Matt. Let us know what you think when you get it.

    I've also take a leaf out of your book, my turn to be hypocritical, and I'm now dosing into a small cup and weighing it. I now weigh out 17gms in a 15gm VST basket (for a double ristretto), distribute with the tool and tamp. This has only added seconds not minutes to my work flow but I now have consistent (yummy) shots with basically no channelling. So this tool has changed my procedure but as Maxwell Smart used to say "and loving it"

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    I've ordered one of the generic el cheapo one to give a try. I do notice that performing some sort of distribution technique (I currently use the Stockfleth method) drastically improves my pour in terms of consistency and reducing probability of channeling when compared to tamping straight from the grinder.
    The downside however is that I get smelly coffee fingers, and mess everywhere unless I hover over my knock bin. Not to mention I'm slow and clumsy.

  39. #89
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    But what if you're all wrong?!!??!!
    Wrong seems to be the word of the moment if the newspaper articles incorporating the word into their headline is any indication, so, why shouldn't making coffee get the treatment.


    "22 Things You're Doing Wrong "

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/peggy/22-th...zlm#.rrQEVPmn7
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  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by charzy View Post
    (I currently use the Stockfleth method)
    I've never seen the need for Stockleth. Just a settling tap and a level tamp is all that's needed. You certainly won't need it when you get your coffee distributor. No more smelly fingers, well not via coffee making.
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  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I've never seen the need for Stockleth. Just a settling tap and a level tamp is all that's needed. You certainly won't need it when you get your coffee distributor. No more smelly fingers, well not via coffee making.
    Yes, for me the value of stockfleth is not in improving distribution, rather that it controls dose if you don't have an accurately dosing grinder. I've found that the most effective thing for removing channelling was a shake halfway through. I also found the JWD (stirring) made no difference at all.

    By the way, there is no better smell than freshly ground coffee, therefore I would say that coffee smelling fingers is an advantage.
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  42. #92
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    Yes, for me the value of stockfleth is not in improving distribution, rather that it controls dose if you don't have an accurately dosing grinder.
    My $20 set of digital scales do an even better job. Stockfleth isn't really used in the professional coffee world any more, or at least it isn't taught any more. It's unnecessary at best, unhygienic and wasteful at worst.
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  43. #93
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    $20 eh! you must have the deluxe version Leroy, mine were $9.95, a few years ago I must admit.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Sometimes I feel people take this a bit too seriously. Grind, mix up clumps with a chopstick (if you have clumps) And just tamp. KISS
    Do you reckon it would be OK to use a match?
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  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Sometimes I feel people take this a bit too seriously.

    It's a personal thing. If someone wants to stir, chop and do whatever then that's fine. Whatever works for you. I've gone from doing nothing but dose and tamp (KISS) to weighing and using the "OCD" clone and my shots are now more consistent. I've definitely seen an improvement and if that's taking it too seriously then so be it.
    Last edited by barri; 29th April 2017 at 06:17 AM.
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  46. #96
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    I have the Pullman chisel and I love it. Once you get it seated properly -and that's not hard- the chisel delivers beautifully distribution of the coffee. Just recently I had a lot of guest for Easter the chisel made distribution easy and fast, better than my spazfleth method ( that's the uncoordinated version of the stockfleth)😯
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  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    It's a personal thing. If someone wants to stir, chop and do whatever then that's fine. Whatever works for you.
    Plenty of stirring happens here, and sometimes it's personal :P

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    $20 eh! you must have the deluxe version Leroy, mine were $9.95, a few years ago I must admit.
    I did splash out a little on this particular set Yelta so that I could get a set with a higher total capacity. They're quite robust, quite accurate, measure to 0.1g and up to 3kg so they double as our kitchen scales. I may have even spent $25 on these ones including shipping, I can't quite remember. Was worth it though to achieve that dual purpose. I also have a small $11 set for travel and weighing shots. I may treat myself to a set of Brewista scales at some stage, but I'm quite happy with my cheapies for now.

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  49. #99
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    ONA coffee distributor

    I'm not convinced about the accuracy of cheap scales. Whilst I acknowledge that different scales may be different, I think the digital read-out gives you a false sense of confidence. I had some cheapish Sofritto digital scales that I used for coffee and baking but it became clear when measuring gelatine that the scales were not consistent (and the jelly in a cake was rubber). I replaced with a Bonavita and the improvement has been huge.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    I'm not convinced about the accuracy of cheap scales. Whilst I acknowledge that different scales may be different, I think the digital read-out gives you a false sense of confidence. I had some cheapish Sofritto digital scales that I used for coffee and baking but it became clear when measuring gelatine that the scales were not consistent (and the jelly in a cake was rubber). I replaced with a Bonavita and the improvement has been huge.
    Yeah it's a bit hit and miss in my experience. I've got 3 sets of cheap digital scales now and am only fully confident of the accuracy of the larger white ones pictured above. I check it occasionally and it hasn't ever been out by more than 0.5g, which is good enough for what I need. Performance deteriorates with the battery life as well. The other two are pocket scales and one of them at least is fairly poor for accuracy and performance. It's a handy design so it's a shame, but I just keep them at work now and only use them as a rough guide that's more accurate than the old 7g scoop. The set I'm currently using at home for yield measurement seem better, but they'll be replaced by a Brewista when I can afford it.

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