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Thread: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

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    Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hi,

    ive just purchased a 2nd hand Diadema Junior Semi-auto, its bout 3 years old, but just got it fully serviced according to the previous owner. and that they have changed one of the electronic boards.

    any help from any of the Diadema users and who might know something about it would be much appreciated.

    been trying it out, but i have a feeling something is definitely wrong with it. i left it on for about 20-30 mins before trying to brew anything on it. boiler gauge at this stage is around 1bar.

    once the espresso is done, tried steaming bout 180-200ml of milk did it a couple of times, then i find that the boiler gauge is going down to .8 and even going down to 0 after a while. and it wont go up until i turn if off for bout an hour.

    when i tried it again it did the same thing again. and i found that the water coming out of the group head is not hot enough? i didnt measure it, but comparing to the one from my silvia its definitely cooler and that the steaming is not as strong and dies off..

    how does the boiler / green light work? since mine when i turn it on first time, it goes on till 1bar, afters the light comes on for 3-4 secs, then turn off for 7-10secs and on 3-4 secs.

    so yeah im guessing theres something wrong here. from what ive heard its such a great machine. but yeah i feel that theres something wrong here. i will try to contact the previous owner tomorrow, if he cant solve it maybe need to take it back to the service center.

    cheers

    albert



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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hello Albert,

    Sounds to me like the element relay is on the way out. On your machine, this is actually on a board attached to the pressurestat and I think that if you replace this, youll be back to where you need to be...

    The gotcha on this one is that the pressurestat on these is not cheap and you are probably looking at around $150 out of pocket :(

    Sorry to bring you bad tidings...

    Chris

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    I cant offer any mechanical advice but I can tell you how mine is behaving

    Quote Originally Posted by 44494740575142250 link=1288363717/0#0 date=1288363717
    Hi,

    any help from any of the Diadema users and who might know something about it would be much appreciated.

    been trying it out, but i have a feeling something is definitely wrong with it. i left it on for about 20-30 mins before trying to brew anything on it. boiler gauge at this stage is around 1bar. *
    Mine gets up to 1.1 bar withing about 20min and has been sitting on that all morning

    Quote Originally Posted by 44494740575142250 link=1288363717/0#0 date=1288363717
    once the espresso is done, tried steaming bout 180-200ml of milk did it a couple of times, then i find that the boiler gauge is going down to .8 and even going down to 0 after a while. and it wont go up until i turn if off for bout an hour. *
    When steaming mine will drop as low as 0.5 bar at the end of a 300ml load but never drops to zero. It quickly recovers, within 2 min, to full pressure after steam has ceased.


    Quote Originally Posted by 44494740575142250 link=1288363717/0#0 date=1288363717
    how does the boiler / green light work? since mine when i turn it on first time, it goes on till 1bar, afters the light comes on for 3-4 secs, then turn off for 7-10secs and on 3-4 secs.
    Mine is on flat out until it gets to pressure/temp but then it is much less frequent than yours, Ive never timed it but it comes on every few minutes for about 15sec.

    I hope you get it sorted because they are a nice machine :)

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    To Chris,

    thanks for info, so is it the element relay or is it the pressurestat it self? i might bring it back to the service center and see what they think. and hopefully it wont cost too much. its just a bit disappointing finding out it got a problem when it was just "fully serviced". anyway i will find out again next week and report back here.

    to Brewman,

    thanks for spelling out how yours work, yeah mine when its turned on big gurgle sound for a few secs, and i can hear that the water is boiling inside and the green light turns on for bout 10 mins and 1 bar, and then every 10-15secs the boiler would turn on for 3-4secs, and keep on doing it.. i just turn it off and wont bother using it for now. back to my silvia for the weekend :)

    anyways have a great weekend guys and will report back next week

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 2C212F283F392A4D0 link=1288363717/3#3 date=1288410213
    so is it the element relay or is it the pressurestat itself?
    The relay is on a board attached to the pressurestat Albert, so you will probably need to do them both, unless you know an electronics wizard...

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Chris,

    oh okay. damn that would mean its the Sirai unit is it? from what ive read that is one of the big plus of the diadema having a sirai commercial pressurestat in it. given its only 3 years old is that a normal life time or should it last longer?

    and is it possible to replace my self (do you sell it?) or is it better to have it re-serviced?

    thanks

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Stuck Vaccum valve?

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    hi tek,

    which part is that? and what do you mean by stuck?

    thx

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    an update on my machine,

    the previous owner brought it back to the service center earlier this week and they had a check for a couple of days.

    got some info that they had ordered some part and got to fixing it today and is confident that its now in a good working condition. unfortunately i cant take the diadema junior home tomorrow since they wanted to finish off a thorough check on it.

    will report again on monday when i can pick it up.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    picked up the diadema this afternoon. talked to one of the guys there and they mentioned it was the pressurestat that got a problem and have replaced it.

    got it home and started it up, gave it a good half n hour before i played around with it. i found that the water from the brew head is now hot, but its not boiling, no steam coming off it. and now the bar pressure is at 0.8ish on idle. >> got a question, does the pressure affects the brewing temp? and what bout the OPV?

    and when i steam bout 200ml of milk, it would go down to around 0.6-0.7ish. i still find it hard to get micro foam, either from lack of practice on the diadema or maybe lack of pressure too? i can manage to get good microfoam and decent latte art on my silvia but still very" struggling on the diadema.

    should i bring it back to the service center and ask them bout the lack of pressure and maybe ask them to fix it up?

    cheers any advice would be much appreciated

    albert

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    A_M
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D505E594E485B3C0 link=1288363717/9#9 date=1289232473
    i found that the water from the brew head is now hot, but its not boiling
    SHOULD NOT BE BOILING if set up correctly... Mind you some machines run close and thus need a cooling flush..

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D505E594E485B3C0 link=1288363717/9#9 date=1289232473
    now the bar pressure is at 0.8ish on idle
    If you mean once it is up and running.... Then could be a touch low.... BUT. One needs to check and measure as giuges can be out and there is a relationship between teh water and the Group temp VS steam etc.


    Do not have enough experience with this unit but the diademas are a rock solid unit. MY two units both ran at about 1.2 to 1.3 once warm and only after extended no use, did they need a cooling flush.

    A: Gave plenty of steam
    B: Temp was about 92C to 95C up inside teh head as best I could measure

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    thanks for the reply AM,

    played around again this morning

    and the water from the head its not boiling. i would need to find a digital thermometer to measure how hot it is.. were aiming for 92-95c right? i found that the water coming out from the water tap is boiling hot.

    does this sound right? turn on machine and boiler goes for a few minutes and once its warm, stays on at 0.8bar/ the boiler turns off for bout 30-35secs (0.7bar) then on again for 5 secs and back at 0.8bar, and continues like that. till i brew / steam.

    its steaming on and on, but im finding it hard to get microfoam for now, need to practice more. waiting for a different 2 hole tip from coffeeparts to arrive.

    AM, a little out of topic, i love what you did with the custom wood working for the diadema, looks fantastic. can you share how you did it?

    cheers

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 525F5156414754330 link=1288363717/11#11 date=1289275643
    i found that the water coming out from the water tap is boiling hot.
    What 100C *plus = Boiling...

    Would suggest not that hot... *More than 70C feel boiling but need to measure not guess *;)

    Quote Originally Posted by 525F5156414754330 link=1288363717/11#11 date=1289275643
    the boiler turns off for bout 30-35secs (0.7bar) *then on again for 5 secs and back at 0.8bar, and continues like that.

    35sec and 5 sec is SO so... *The post http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1265198451/350#364 is same ball park, but IS tweaked and running at 1.2 to 1.3 not 0.8

    IS your boiler *insulated or Not, Covers ON or OFF... Heat management takes many forms...

    MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL - What is the coffee in the cup *like ???
    Quote Originally Posted by 525F5156414754330 link=1288363717/11#11 date=1289275643
    custom wood working for the diadema

    Which bit... Wooden group Handles = lath or buy from someone with a lathe *;)

    The waste tray... Was a piece of driftwood and a a little bit of old time skills to make things suit...


    Other Diadema Junior *USERS or Suppliers may have a better handle as to the usual boiler pressure - *After that it comes back to REAL measurements and not guess work. *You gauge could be out by 0.3 or 0.4 and that would mean your system is OK - by my experience...

    Gauges are indicators not the answer to every thing. *

    Its whats in the cup that counts..


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Gday Albert.... :)

    Boiler Pressure at 0.8Bar seems a little low, if gauge is accurate.

    Mine, right from new, sat at around 1.1Bar +0.0/-0.08Bar. Over time that settled down to approximately 1.09Bar +0.0/-0.07Bar. You could drop a message to CosmoreX Coffee (the importers/distributors of BFC and Diadema) and ask their Tech if your machine is operating within normal operating parameters and then take it from there.... :-?

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    big thanks for AM & Mal for the advice, and i have contacted CosmoreX and got a prompt reply telling me to bring it back to the service center.

    which i did, and the service manager helped me out within a 5 minutes, simple turn on the pressurestat to increase the pressure. and i had a look at it, apparently its been changed to a Mater, i think previously it was a Sirai unit.

    anyways ive been playing around with it at around 1 bar and 1.1 bar, still getting used to it. with the steaming its now better since ive changed it to the coffeeparts 2hole tip. and been getting decent microfoam.

    the coffee it self? i think its still not optimal. but its getting better all the time. many thanks for all that have read and replied to this post. will try to post some photos of my machine soon.

    cheers

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    The current Setup, Diadema Junior Semi-Automatica & Compak K3T. Pullman Barista Tamper, n bits n pieces.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    A closeup. Im using a Synesso double basket on mine, but with the single spout. anybody else does this? or mostly double basket for double spouts?

    i like to have just a single shot glass / the coffee cup on the bottom, rather than havin to wash 2 glasses :)


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    from another angle. i do like the looks of the machine. very slim and tall. had a look at an isomac tea, and compared to that this is just very slim.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    funky retro rocker switches.. kinda reminds you of aeroplane cockpits no? i luv it. compared to the rocker switches that a previous Diadema Junior model has i think.


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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hello Albert,

    I am glad you are enjoying your Diadema Junior Plus...great machines :)

    For the sake of clarifying the point. Your service centre may have fitted a new Mater pressurestat, and maybe not, but the Junior Plus didnt have a Sirai as original equipment. A machine the age of yours probably had a mater as original equipment, together with the additional external relays that help extend the life of the pressurestat assembly over the earlier types without the relays....

    The new models all have integrated CAMPINI SSR pressurestat assemblies that are said to be the best available. It will take a long while but eventually when the current pressurestat assembly fails, we can supply your service agent the Campini.

    Hope this helps.

    Rgdz,
    Attilio
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Glad to hear its all sorted out Albert.... :)

    Youve just gotta love these machines dont you. Simple, beautiful and purposeful..... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    to Attilio, thanks a lot for the detailed information! well i do hope this pressurestat would last a few years before any problems arise.

    when i asked why they stopped selling the diadema line they mentioned it was hard / harder to find spareparts for them compared to the La Cimbalis and other brands that they sell. but yeah they still service them.

    yeah its a great machine Mal :) had a rough start, but now im learning to drive it properly and getting better results. cant complain too much when i only paid less than $1k for it

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C515F584F495A3D0 link=1288363717/21#21 date=1290275199
    ....someone said.....hard / harder to find spareparts for them compared to........other brands that they sell....
    Really *::)? Diadema Juniors are an E61 design...basically the oldest and most respected commercial heat exchanger pump driven design around, with more parts available now than originally when E61 was only a one brand desgn. E61 machines and their spares are everywhere and available from many different sources.

    Did you ask why your machine had apparently been "fully serviced" but no one noticed it wasnt running at correct pressure, necessitating you take it back for review? *



    To prolong the life of the pressurestat we suggest you do not leave the machine on when it is not in use. They are quick enough to heat when you want to use.

    Enjoy this excellent machine.....I noticed what you paid second hand. What a great buy * :)

    Regardz,
    Attilio
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    well thats what the service manager mentioned, i just nodded :) might be worthwhile to contact them again and see if they want to sell your diadema range again as i think its awesomely made. i can PM you the name of the seller if you dont know them already.

    what was comparable there was i think the isomac tea on display. the la cimbali junior goes for $4000++ and they mentioned they sold around 3-5 machines a week for domestic use.

    does it mean that most e61 machines have similar spareparts?

    well firstly it was "fully serviced" and then it would build up pressure then goes off, then he mentioned it was either the pressurestat or another part that they had changed. 2nd time around they had replaced the pressurestat and the pressure was running low at 0.8bar. but ya after 3 visits and now im very happy with the machine. and yeah definitely a great buy :D

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E535D5A4D4B583F0 link=1288363717/23#23 date=1290613384
    does it mean that most e61 machines have similar spareparts?
    Yes, most do...

    Expobar and VBM though, use a propriety design of their own and some parts are not transferable. There may be other makes who do this too but I know for a fact that the Diadema/BFC machines use a genuine E-61 Group so parts are never a problem.... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    its great to know that most parts are the same between e-61 group machines.

    brings me to another question, i will be bringing the machine back to Jakarta. and service wise i hope its not going to be a lot of problems, but theres a reseller for ECM machines so maybe i can consult with them.

    the question is, what should i do when transporting the machine other than wrapping it up really well in bubble wrap and good sturdy box. as in draining out all the water from the resevoir is easy enough. but do i need to drain out the boiler? how do i do that?

    thanks guys

    albert

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    Re: HOW TO TRANSPORT Diadema Junior Semi-auto

    Excellent question.

    If you have ALL the original wrapping and carton and know how it goes together use them please.

    If you dont, please email contact@cosmorexcoffee.com.au and I will have the boys take step by step photos of the correct set up tomorrow and email them back to you.

    Forget the bubble wrap, the idea is to stop impacts from say, someone dropping the carton and bending the frame if the machine etc....bubble wrap wont do that.

    Why drain the water out of the boiler? *Many people leave machines inactive on their kitchen bench for a month while they go on holiday....they dont drain the water and no need to. All you need to do if you wish, is say drain 300ml or so straight off from the hot water tap just before you switch it off for the last time before placing in cartion. When you unwrap it at the other end it will refill to the correct level automatically. If you wish to freshen it more, just drain off more water using the hot water tap and allow it to refill normally. They dont hold much water anyway so you are not going to lighten the machine significantly by draining.

    Whatever you do DO NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO PLACE THE CARTON ON ITS SIDE OR UPSIDE DOWN it must travel right way up.

    Regardz,
    Attilio
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    TC
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Too right Attilio,

    One thing to keep in mind is if its going by air, the holds of aircraft can be somewhere in the vicinity of -50oC and water can and does freeze in boilers with disasterous consequences.

    Draining the boiler so as to allow for expansion will decrease the liklihood of damage if/when things do freeze up ;)

    2mcm

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Thanks for extra explanation 2mcm- well done...as usual I was stuck in sea freight mode :D *New container consignment arriving tomorrow morning infact!

    A.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Dear Attilio,

    ive sent the email. and many thanks for the advice. as i dont have the original packaging when i purchased it 2nd hand.

    bubble wrap would be only for filling the space left on the box, but yeah youre right on the impact if somebody drops it. it would need some sturdy packaging yea? maybe put something like plywood on the sides of the box might help?

    with regards to the upright position, it would be best i know. but with airlines and ground staff at both Australian and Indonesian airport, im pretty sure it will be moving around. i will try it best to put signs for this way up etc etc. what will happen if it gets tilted?

    2mcm,

    thanks for the info. i never thought it would be freezing cold in the holding. ive bought beans before from jakarta / perth and found them normal, not liked thawed after freezing look when i opened them up. but anyways its a good idea to drain and i will do it before i pack it up.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Gday Albert weve just complete a "moving picture" for you as it is easier than writing it all down in an email.

    If I cant work out how to put it on here the boys in the workshop might have to put it on ewe choob for you (I dont know how) and we will provide a link.

    As you will see from the "filum" the idea is to suspend the machine in the carton so there is quite a deal of space all around and *usually* a bit of a side crush will not therefore damage the body/. "Forking" it will do damage, even if you did put bubble or newspapers or cardboard around the thing.....

    Use a permanent marker to put large arrows and "this side up" on the carton...also "do not top load" and lots of "fragile" tape around the thing. *

    By the way the machine and carton filmed were transported in to us with the carton on its side in the boot of a car which is the reason for wetness in the carton. Sideways and upside down travel will cause damage not by water escaping, but by having no support for the internals of the machine which could move about during travel.

    Cheers,
    A.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    here is the link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqDnCIOzZ8k

    If placement of this link here is against CS practice please do advise and we will work something else out for you.

    Enjoy,
    A.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Dear Attilio,

    many many thanks for the awesome video! i must say thats really excellent service from you guys, im really impressed. as im not even your direct customer that youve gone so far to help me out.

    i will try to pack it according to your video, and maybe need to buy a few cardboards and try to find a stereofoam for the bottom bit.

    will let you know how it went when we go back to jakarta at the end of the year.

    cheers

    albert

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Thank Albert appreciate your thoughts.

    You could try asking the people that serviced it for you if they have a spare carton & packing lying around if not directly for your machine, for one of the others that are a similar size and weight.

    If nothing else it will get you a very sturdy carton.

    Cheers
    A.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    I have a similar problem, but I still lose all pressure after about 45 mins of operation. I have to turn it off for an hour to cool down before restarting.
    I have installed a new pressurestat. runs nicely at 1.2 bar. Nice coffee, but after two or three cups...the shows over :-(
    I have cleaned both sensor probes. And they work OK
    Any other suggestions? It will be several weeks before I can get it to Cosmorex for a full service.
    Gaz

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hi Gaz.... :)

    Does the p/stat on yours drive a remote relay to power the element or have a relay mounted on the p/stat? And, is it the same model p/stat that was fitted previously?

    Doesnt sound like anything to do with the Water Level Probes as such mate. It could be related to the main control box as a function of increasing internal environmental temperature perhaps. Lots of maybes of course, as its not that easy to do this sort of fault finding remotely.... :(

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hi Mal, The new relay is a Campini, with the relay built in.
    What you suggest about the control box makes sense because when I turn on the machine at morning tea time I get an even shorter window of opportunity. This would be because there is still some residual heat inside the unit.
    Hey, I could wrap the control box in a frozen gel pack...or blow a small fan on it *:D

  38. #38
    A_M
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A7C67707C7342282B1D0 link=1288363717/36#36 date=1294006773
    Hey, I could wrap the control box in a frozen gel pack...or blow a small fan on it
    Using a fan to try to drop in temp is one way... But it is fixing the symptom and you should be looking to fix teh cause!!!

    Either a SSR or teh Control box wirth a heat issue. A CAP or even the transformer in teh Control box... REPAIR or REPLACE.

    I do not recommend a cool pack as condensation becomes an issue and water is a conductor and your just as likely to BLOW the thing up due to a short.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Yeah, what AM has said.... 8-)

    If the main control box is where the problem lies, then the only way to know for sure is to replace it with a new unit and/or employ the services of an electronics tech to repair the old one and then keep it for a spare.

    Like I said above though, fault finding this type of fault by remote control is very hit and miss.... ::)

    Mal.

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Just looking at these machines. I find it a little concerning that something that a)costs a considerable amount and b)has a reputation for excellent build quality has failures of this nature. I dont expect everything to be perfect, but dead pressure stats and dead control boards dont fill me with confidence. Can anyone who retails these things or otherwise has considerable experience please tell me what the failure rate is like?

  41. #41
    TC
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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Hello Mr_Crema,

    What we cant ascertain is the life that the machine has had nor the quality of water it has been provided with.

    Pressurestats are a wear component, somewhat like your car tyres in that a membrane expands with increasing boiler pressure and then sends a message to the control board to switch the element off leading to contraction. Each pressurestat has a finite number of cycles.

    If the machine was left on 24/7 or the system contained scale, early failure is possible/likely.

    I repaired an 8 month old Giotto purchased by an office a few months ago. Some bright spark thought it was a good idea to run it on mineral water ::)

    The machine was the filthiest, most disgusting machine I have ever seen and Id be surprised if its still running at all in a couple of years.

    Machine life is in the hands of the owner. Throw water around inside them with sloppy filling and dont maintain them and they will die. Treat them well and you can expect good service from them.

    In my experience, Diadema has been an exceptional brand for quality and longevity in the right hands.

    Chris

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    Re: Diadema Junior Semi-auto - need help

    Thanks Chris, thats exactly what I wanted to know.

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    Hi. New to the forums after purchasing a used Diadema Junior Plus, which is an upgrade from a Saeco Via Venezia. When I first used it I noticed the heating element was cycling on and off approximately every 5 seconds and although this was the first time using a heat exchanger machine I suspected something was wrong. I did some research online and eventually found this thread. After looking into the complexity I ordered a new pressurestat (mater xp700 - same as old one) and replaced it today, hoping that this would fix the cycle issue so the machine would only heat up every few minutes or so instead of every 5 seconds. I tested it with the case off and after heating up it began cycling on and off again. I noticed the valve on the boiler appeared to be releasing pressure slowly which I assumed was causing the pressurestat to cycle. I did some further research, then went ahead and pulled it out, cleaned up the anti vacuum valve, replaced the o-ring with a new one and put it back in place. The machine now increases pressure to 1.2 bar, cycles off then drops down to 1 bar after about 30 seconds and cycles the heating element back on, which I suspect is abnormal behaviour.

    Is anyone able to confirm if it is abnormal for the heating element to cycle on and off, and if I must have a pressure leak somewhere? Could it just require a new anti vacuum valve? I plan on booking it in for a service in the near future but having only just purchased it I wanted to play with it and make some cafe quality coffees at home for the other half to justify the upgrade. It appears I may have replaced a perfectly good pressurestat which is dissapointing, although from what I read these have a finite lifespan anyhow.

    Appreciate any advice.

    Thanks

  44. #44
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    It shouldn't cycle on and off that regularly. I'd give Cosmorex a ring, they're pretty helpful and they probably sold your machine when new.
    Dimal likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    It shouldn't cycle on and off that regularly. I'd give Cosmorex a ring, they're pretty helpful and they probably sold your machine when new.
    Thanks Barry, I'll call Cosmorex on Monday. Might have to break the old machine back out for a while.

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