Mike - please keep us up to date with how the Lusso goes - piccies too please!
I have been following this thread as I ordered one of these machines last week from SorrentinaCoffee. It just arrived today :-) Thanks to Jack for the very very good packing. I was worried about the transit from South Australia to Sydney.
Now as to Sniffs question about draining the boiler ....
Im planning to either syphon it via a small 1/4 inch tube or buy a small fish tank pump and use that to suck out the water from the boiler. My Lusso is for a farm which I only visit on the weekend. If I dont drain it the water will sit for 5 days. If it was not being used for just one day I would not bother draining it.
And yeah, 12 kgs is a bit heavy to hold upside down over the sink :-)
Mike - please keep us up to date with how the Lusso goes - piccies too please!
Hi James and all
Okies ... here are some pics.
Note how compact it is compared to the Galtea Domus. I wanted something that would fit on a small bench. Its amazingly simple inside and quiet. Ill try and do a sorta longer review if I get a chance after a few weeks of playing with it.
Wow, it is small isnt it? *Could almost be portable! *;)
Whats the clearance like under the PFs?
Others have said the shot volumes are a bit smaller too - any chance you could measure how much you get from a double? :)
looks amazing....but those group handles...so tiny...you would need a doppio from both to get a real doppio
> Whats the clearance like under the PFs?
Fine. Have had no probs with tall espresso cups.
Shot vols are small, the Home Barista says its a 16 ml shot instead of the usual 25 ml shot. I havent measure mine yet but its about correct. 16 mls. *I use one group for one person by letting both spouts pour into the one cup. You can use the Fellini method to get more volume.
Yes groups are small, *the photo is a bit misleading as the Lusso is further away so groups look smaller than they actually are. But yes they are small and the baskets are small.
Baskets are 48 mm ID but are 27 mm deep. That depth tends to make up a bit for the small diameter. Home Barista said it can take 12 grams - I have not measured it yet myself.
I grind fine, fill to over flowing, tap on bench to settle well, then tamp light. Definately try to come as close as you can come the shower screen.
Now baskets and shot size is small but one thing I can confirm that Home Barista said. Its a very consistent machine. One you are on the right grind subsequent espressos are the same as previous ones - and very good too. I am getting excellent crema (~ 10 mls crema ro 6 ml liquid) from a Mountain Top Estate Bin 478. Smooth sweet shot. Im still getting soggy pucks so still may get even better shots.
So far I am very pleased with it. I can produce a shot for my wife as a macchiato and one for myself as espresso from each group in a short session. I can then clean up and repeat again.
I cant do that with my LaPavoni Europiccola. The groups dont overheat. I have noticed that I need to do a short flush to bring them up to temperature sometimes.
Also note that although the boiler is large, about 3L, by the time you flush to warm the groups prior and flush to clean the groups after you get about 2 or 3 sessions i.e about 6 shots before you would need to re-fill the boiler. It has to be turned off and cooled top open it. The pucks also fall out of the group :-)
Summary. Its a 2 group lever which makes very good, consistent shots for $1500. *There is no other machine that gives you two groups for this price. For those wanting a lever machine at a low price its excellent. Inside its very simple and hence I expect this machine to have a long life.
Mike, thanks for the great info.
The 16ml shot - is that from a single basket after one pull of the lever?
Im trying to work out what I would do to replace my 60ml double shot from the Presso basket - which I then split between 2 lattes.
I guess I would use the PV double basket and pull twice on the lever to get 30ml (and the same from the other group to get enough for my 2 lattes)
The tax return cheque is just days away.... ::)
would it be possible to do a quick fill by.Originally Posted by 7A796C656C666460626C090 link=1265525881/55#55 date=1279463263
1. turning off
2. open steam to depressurize
3. open tank and fill.
4. turn back on?
what would be the possibility of setting up line in via the tank opening?
a manual fill lever setup style?
Only thing to be aware of is filling a hot boiler with cold water is a bad thing as it causes thermal shock so best to use warm or hot water if you are dumping a fair bit in.
Manual fill would be a nice addition :)
Q for Sorrentina Coffee ; do you stock the chrome sided double lever version? :)
looking for a single lever folks ;)
PV lusso can be bought as a single. Dont know why someone would go that way with the Lusso though.
Is there any reason why you would suffer with a two group? An extra $40 worth of gaskets/seals every 5 years seems like a non issue against the fact that you can pull two shots and steam milk at the same time? ;)
And the 2 group is nice and compact too. :)
just thought it would leave a larger footprint, space is at a premium here, but checking the pics it looks ok.Originally Posted by 766172363534040 link=1265525881/61#61 date=1282700203cheers for that. btw can u fit a coffee mug under the spout? link to seller please folks, im seeing double already.Originally Posted by 6661656A62687D6D6A63040 link=1265525881/62#62 date=1282700801
Sorrentina is listed in the links on the left hand side.
I spoke with Jack today - hes sold out of PV Lussos but hopes to have stock back in about 6-8 weeks, possibly longer. :(
I recieved my new Ponte Vecchio Lusso a few days ago from Jack at Sorrentina Coffee. A fantastic machine, for those looking for a lever that can be left on all day without having to worry about switching it on and off, on and off, on and off as seems the case with other home espresso levers.
Having had a La Pavoni lever prior to this, along with a Rancilio Silvia and Rocket Giotto, Ive got to say that this machine - simple as it is - produces a great espresso shot. A different style/flavour/mouth feel for sure, but still a great shot. And for those who prefer a milk based drink, dont worry! The steaming ability of this little beauty is amazing. Once up to temp, with false pressure bled off, you can steam easily, well and truly enough for 3 or four lattes. I know, Ive tried! It just produces steam like crazy.
After looking at a few reviews on other forums, I was aware that the build quality is not up there with the best of the conventional style espresso machine (think Silvia etc.), but after living with it for a few days, this isnt much of a concern as the components that matter are all first class. The only real problem I had, was the fit of the outer casing to the front facia of the machine. A little bit skew wiff, but not noticable so. It only becomes an annoyance if you are taking off the casing each day to fiddle with the pstat. Easy way around this - drill an access hole for the pstat!
The machine I recieved from Jack only had this one minor fit and finish blemish from the factory, and definately not anything that detracts from the making of top quality lever espresso. Jack was kind enough to test it out prior to shipping it to me, so he adds that little bit extra buying confidence to the product he sells.
Overall I am very happy with it. It takes up no more space than my Giotto, and because it it less physically imposing actually seems to take less space. Which is weird seeing as its about 10mm wider...
Thanks Ash, glad to hear youre so happy with the PV. And top marks to Jack for customer service.
I was tempted to buy the PV last year but ended up with a VBM Domobar Jr instead. Completely different machines I know but it seemed the sensible/safe choice at the time.
I still lust over the PV and just bought myself an old La Pavoni I want to restore, this is my first lever machine.
When we eventually remodel the kitchen I want to allow a space for a couple of machines so I can justify a HX & and a lever.
My Lusso has also arrived and I too want to thank Jack from Sorrentina for his excellent service.
The Lusso is a thing of beauty - I love the symmetry. The steaming power is phenomenal and I now am making true microfoam. The fixed position of the steam pipe I think is a bonus - whilst you probably cant get a jug bigger than 600mls under it, you dont have to worry about moving the nozzle around, you can just leave it in the middle of the jug and let the steam do the work.
My question to other Lusso users: how much are you extracting from a double basket? Ive been sticking to 30mls, but as a result am going through a lot more coffee to make the morning lattes for myself and the missus.
Has anyone extracted more from their double?
Tomorrow I might try getting 50mls from the double basket and see how the flavour changes.
Is there a single group version available?
Sound like itd be perfect for my holiday home!
Im extracting 2 X 15ml from 14gms in a double basket with my PV.
I occasionally sneak a few extra mls if Im making a milk drink for someone else, but I found it much better to use a smaller cup or glass and keep the pours at 2 X 15ml.
There is a single group, you would have to check with Sorrentina regarding availability. Having said that, I believe the price is similar and the footprint is the same so why bother with a single?
ah yes, good point..no bother.
Sniff, at the moment Im just pulling about enough for a ristretto out of each double *:o
Its taken me about a week to settle down to this, it also helps that I like a ristretto! The grind Im using is about the same as what I used on my Giotto, which surprised me. I was expecting the grind to be a bit finer. But I only use a light tamp with this grind, more of a level and polish really.
I pull and hold the lever for a long pre-infusion (8-12secs), release under control until the first bit of coffe comes out, lower the lever again to re-charge the chamber and release.
Ive been doing a roast every couple of days of various beans to try out over the next week or so, So Im looking forward to trying them out through this machine :)
whoo hoo my PVL is on the way ;D
Thought other PVL owners might like these:
Oh bugger. Never seen this thread before... interesting read. I can feel an hole appearing in my wallet...
Sorrentina Coffee over there to the left...Originally Posted by 5A7775737E7F7B160 link=1265525881/75#75 date=1295603586
NEW lever and it works and it looks OK as well and under $2K
No need for dirty used stuff off e b a y
All I need is $1500 8-)
This morning I took 40ml from a double and then 20ml from a single basket and then split it 30ml each latte. Wasnt too bad, and should hopefully mean I can string out the current roast a little bit longer to let the next roast mature in the bag!
I ABSOLUTELY love the steaming power of this thing. ;D
I have an old Bezerra club (family) machine, and these spring lever machines make a great coffee. Shame the group handles are different sizes or I would be looking for a double basket from the spares store.
Looking at the turned GH and tamp that Framey posted above makes me jealous and wondering about getting the lever and water / steam nozzle switches turned.
Those handles look fantastic Framey, did you do them yourself?
Did a bit more experimenting with a Fellini move yesterday getting a little more volume with a similar taste. Also tried one with a double Fellini that was okay, better than two full pulls on the lever. Basically just let the lever come up as per a normal Fellini move, then did it again before finishing normally.
Its fun trying out so many combinations of extraction. :)
Im not that handy *:)Those handles look fantastic Framey, did you do them yourself?
Obtained from a non sponsor site so PM me if you want to know the details.
Took the pluge today and placed an order for the PV Lusso 2 group in Red. Jack at Sorrentina was very helpful over the phone, and answered all my questions regarding maintenance (was a bit worried about replacing piston seals) but after I told him about my San Marino CK restore he said I should be okay doing it myself. It should look right at home next to my red compak K6 and my red ACF cups :)
Looks like the San Marino CK might have to depart to make room :( Still after all the work I put in getting her finished, she should easily find a new home soon. :)
My PV Lusso arrived today, unpacked and ready to go.
Anyone got any pointers or tips for using this machine? The manual is not overly helpful. Im sure someone here has a few pointers to save me struggling from the start.
Also got a few bits in the water. Jack tested it out before despatch, but even in the steam/hot water there are little floaty things. The boiler might need a flush.
Its a nice size. Much smaller and less dominating than the HX. My wife will be happy, shell think shes got her kitchen back! L)
Grind fine and dose low would be my not too experienced tip. From memory somewhere around 12-14 grams.
I think the boiler pressure on mine is 1.2 bar. A lot will depend on coffee used and personal taste, but up around 1.5 seemed too hot to me.
A 600ml milk jug fits neatly under the group for cleaning flushes. I started using this due to the water repelling nature of the drip tray.
Best of luck and enjoy going old school *:)
Starting from the start, I got myself a bigger funnel to use to fill the boiler with water. The one that comes with it does the job, but I found a larger one at home that makes it a little easier.
Once it comes up to temp the first time, bleed it using the steam wand. This gets rid of false pressure. Watch the pressure gauge go down to see what I mean. I do this each time I turn it on, and especially after filling the tank. Otherwise you find you have absolutely no brewing pressure at all.
Grind some coffee and into the portafiller it goes. This is where I started experimenting ( still am truth be told), you can play with light tamp and polish, heavy tamp and polish or no tamp at all (did that by mistake the other morning - surprisingly it wasnt to bad!).
Lock in the portafiller, bring down the lever and preinfuse to your hearts desire. Release the lever carefully! It will come up initially with a bit of force. I tend to let it come up with my hand resting on the lever to make sure its not going to jar anything. I suppose you could say I ride the lever up. The lever will hit the point where the resistance from the coffe increases and you can take you hand away and watch the lever go up, or more importantly, watch the extraction.
Ive found that I tend to pull the demitasse away just as some blonding starts, the stream of coffee will keep on coming until the spring pressure is fully dissapated, so keep an eye on it. I put another cup under the spouts to catch the dregs.
From there its a matter of experimenting with different tamping techniques, fellini moves and pressure stat settings. Another forum based in the states has a very good lever dedicated forum that has heaps of useful information about these and other levers. Not sure if I can name it, pm me if you want some further details and other things that Ive found out in my short time of ownership.
Very glad to hear everyone is having fun with their Lussos.
This is my own daily routine:
Bring machine up to full pressure (having bled off false pressure).
Flush water through the groups to heat them. If you leave the machine running for 25 minutes or so the groups become quite warm/hot to the touch and wont really need flushing. If I have not let the machine sit for long enough- I flush a little extra water through. Also flushing a little water seems to kick start the thermosyphon and speed up the group heating. I think it is also good to keep the water in the boiler turning over and for flushing the groups.
Grind fairly fine- small white sugar size or a bit smaller.
Fill double basket right to the top- tap on bench to settle grinds. Tamp lightly. Add a little more coffee and tamp hard leaving around 3mm headroom.
Pull lever all the way down- hold for 8 seconds. Ideally if the grind/tamp is right only one drip of coffee will come through after 8 seconds.
Release the lever- allow to travel up around 1/4 before pulling down again and releasing. This is my Fellini move.
Allow the lever to go nearly all the way back up before pulling all the way down and releasing again.
Each pull of the lever should produce a steady smooth stream that runs for 10 to 15 seconds giving a total extraction time of 30 seconds. You can grind finer for a slower extraction- this can also work well.
If the extraction is faster than this it is likely the grind or tamp could go a little finer/harder.
Some Lusso owners prefer to only do one pull- and say the flavour is purer and better this way. Personally I like a longer shot and dont think a second pull over-extracts- at least not enough to bother me.
For long blacks I fill the cup with hot water before pulling the shot. This way the crema is maintained nicely. One of the great features of the Lusso is the hot water tap- my other half like long blacks and the Lusso does them well.
Another thing I have found: the steam wand works best when the PSTAT pressure is at or close to the factory setting of 1.2 BAR. I found if the steam wasnt quite up to 1.2 bar you could get large bubbles appearing.
Here are some images of this afternoons effort. I ground a little fine and the shot was a little slow- but very tasty:
Ill give all that a go and hopefully post up a photo of my machine & a few shots soon. The machine is great and looks the part.
The steaming is excellent, I got pretty good microfoam on my first attempt. all that practice on Lucy wasnt a waste after all. :)
Im just wondering how long AM is going to wait for a visit to inspect. ;)
One other thing I remembered, not sure if it makes much difference though, I pull the lever down to roughly parallel (just before water flows from the group) before inserting the PF. The theory is that if the PF is in place from the get go, air is drawn through the dry puck. Not really sure if this makes the slightest difference, but it isnt hard to do, and makes some sense to me.
Does anyone else have a drippy group? When the machine is on and up to pressure just the left group drips. I hope its not the seals. The left group is at a slight angle to the left.
Just make sure he doesnt tuck it under his wing on the way out he really NEEDS a lever ;)Originally Posted by 664B494F4243472A0 link=1265525881/87#87 date=1296205068
With the drip thing a tiny bit of condensation and the odd drip would be normal based on my Pav and more as the seals wear. Best thing to do is drop Jack a line.
Not a drippy group....just a slightly incontinent hot water tap. ;D ;D
I just leave a teacup under it to catch its occasional drips (and also use the teacup to catch the blonding part of the shots).
Will do hes been very good. *I just dont want to bug him every 2 mins with newbie questions. *There might be an issues though so I will email him.Originally Posted by 5750545B53594C5C5B52350 link=1265525881/90#90 date=1296261311
Had a decent play today, showing off my PVL to a friend that dropped by. *Followed the above tips and got some pretty good pours. *Its a great little machine, fun to play about with and steaming no problem.
The crema that I did get didnt hang about long, not like when I used my HX (tried beans roasted last week and yesterday). *Might have to tweak more but as a starter, not bad coffee. *Also got to try out the syphon and it was really nice too. *Slightly over caffinated today! :)
Oh and just a quick question. I know a few posts said no to leave water in the tank between uses... the water took on a metalic taste. I was just wondering if you can turn the machine off, then drain the tank with the pressure from the water tap? Would this cause any damage to the element?
I tend to leave water in the tank. Mind you I only put about 1.5 - 2 litres in at a time. This gets me through a few days. Havent found any unexpected metallic flavours creeping in so far.
I find if I half fill the boiler (using the sight glass), warm up, then draw some water off each group to help warm them, then draw the shots, then draw some more water to clean the groups, that Im getting close to the low water light coming on, so I end up topping up the boiler every day.
Yes- I havent noticed any metallic taste by following roughly the same routine. I also only half fill the boiler most days- it heats up a lot quicker- and turns over faster.
Every so often I fill the boiler and syphon it out with a tube.
After a bit of practice, I have even mastered the two shots at once and steam milk before they finish completely routine. ;D
On the crema side its fab once dialed in. I am going less fine grind than the pump machine (same beans) and hard tamp. Fine grind is what some are saying but, Fine is a relative term. Based on my testing if you are getting pale and thin crema maybe try a coarser setting. The coffee will likely taste overextracted too.
Todays shots were dark,mottled and most importantly very tasty. :)
Theres a steadily growing group of us Lusso users!
Im curious - how much are people extracting from a double basket?
From weighing a double holds roughly 15grams, and Im just not sure how much to pull out of it - at least 30mls but Im thinking I could probably squeeze an extra 10mls out.
Anyone else got a rough guide?
Framey you wouldnt happen to allow other CS member to come and play with your PVL :)
Hi. Just need a bit of advice about my lever.
Ive got some new seals coming soon, but my right group is slipping really badly. Totally unusable at the moment. Is there anything I can do or do the seals need changed???
I used the same dose and grind in both portafilters, left side pour was very nice but the right group kept slipping. No crema. Would any coffee be forced back into the tank?