Here is the pictures after taking off the uutside panels.
Just purchased a Carimali Uno E (about 8 years old) and plan a full dismantle, clean and with a little luck re-assembly...
I will post some pictures tonight.
It is not too dirty for an 8 year old, so I was tossing up wether to go the full hog on it, but it has a little rust on the frame so I figure it would be a good idea to seal that up with some new paint.
Just a couple of quick questions at the moment:
1) Any advice (apart from read the label) for using Cafetto Vanish Descaler? Anything I need to be carefull of in terms of parts that wont like it?
2) The current Sirai is on at 1 bar, off at 1.6. I have a new one to install, but is it worth trying to recondition the old one? Im pretty sure it is just the diaphram that is gone as the contacts look good.
3) Has anyone got a schematic for this machine? I have emailed Carimali, but awaiting a response.
This is my first go of a restore, so open to any suggestions and help, and apologies if any of the questions above are a bit daft.
Here is the pictures after taking off the uutside panels.
your in luck i have a manual for Uno E that might help you.
its not a full schematic but
PM me your email addy and *i can send you the PDF :)
IMO if its making good coffee maybe hold off on the "full dismantle" maybe just a really good clean. But maybe not a full boiler removal clean......
maybe replace the Pstat and keep the old one as a spare for some point in the distant future ?
[s]some pics would help us that love to watch[/s] :)
beaten like the submissive i am.....
one thing i notice is the water level sensor looks to be in a long way.
i would consider undoing the sensor, removing to check the depth of water in the boiler. if it is a short sensor no problem if its a long one the water might be quite low and might be worth adjusting it to make the boiler a bit "fuller".
its just an opinion, and just my very cautious nature.....
I often think these UNOs would make a great home machine, plumbed, rotary, compact, and all commercial parts and build . The layout makes them very easy to work on once the covers are off.
next one i see........
Yeah, thats what I was thinking too. How long do gaskets and o-rings typically last? I just figured that it might be worth doing the whole thing and be done with it just to know that everythings good.Originally Posted by 6D616865656C000 link=1285131773/2#2 date=1285137294
I am mightly tempted not to bother though.
I have an Elektra Microcasa SA which I plan to let go when I am happy with the Uno, which means if I do the full clean now I have backup coffee whilst cleaning.
Do you mean to give a little more safety margin (in the water level) if anything goes wrong?Originally Posted by 6468616C6C65090 link=1285131773/3#3 date=1285138051
This one is not coming back on the market for a loooong time. I didnt show you the panels, but they are 100% chrome. Looks awesome and the 3lt boiler size and footprint makes this a tidy little machine. (but hey you would expect me to say that when I just bought one and havent started to fix it yet...honeymoon....)Originally Posted by 6468616C6C65090 link=1285131773/3#3 date=1285138051
yeah, might not really be a safety thing, its just something i always look at. some machines seem to have really long sensors, if someone or something had pushed it in the water might be very low.....Originally Posted by 40454A4111101715240 link=1285131773/5#5 date=1285138821
two mins with a spanner and then you know the depth is fine, just something i like to know..
I managed to pick up a 2 group of the same vintage on the auction site, which needed a new element. It should keep me in parts for a while. Seems a real shame to strip it down though, but I really cant be bothered replacing the element (suposedly the only issue)
All the parts seem interchangeable, so for 2 flowmetres, pump and motor, 2 steam assembly, 1 hot water, 2 electronic touch pads, sirai (might need reconditioning) some solenoids and spare pipe, I though $260 was ok.
I had a chance to have a good look at the two group (ECO2) yesterday.
The group on my UNO is heated by a brass plate bolted to the top of the group head. The plate is welded directly to the boiler. The ECO2 has identical group heads, however instead of having the brass plate bolted to the top for heating, it has a big hunk of brass with two pipe coming in running from the boiler. One pipe come from the top of the boiler, the other from the bottom.
I am guessing this is a thermosyphon loop, but I am going to ask a dumb question. There are two pipes coming into the bras heating block and one going out to the group head with brew water. I thought that a thermosyphon loop would need to be seperate from the inbound water in an HX. How do they do it?
Hi guys, Im new to the forum and am after a manual for a Carimali Uno as well. Maheel, Ill send you a PM, if you could email me a copy of the manual that would be great!
Dumb question, the HX loop is circular. Which answers my other question which was could I get the loop going on the UNO... but no it would require boiler alteration so no chance!Originally Posted by 57525D5606070002330 link=1285131773/8#8 date=1286140743
Amongst cleaning everything, I noticed that the Safety Valve was locked up with scale. So with a little encouragement I got it apart and plan to replace the rubber and re-assemble. Here it is at the moment:
I just heated it up with the brand new sirai, and I wanted to quickly get a second opinion on something. The new sirai is clicking on at 0.7 bar, and off at 0.9 bar, but I have it adjusted 99% open. I am not concerned with the 0.2 bar band, but it is a 0.5-1.4bar sirai, so I thought it should be on at 0.5bar given my full open adjustment.
Can anyone comment?
The above is based on the machine pressure guage. It seemed fine prior to dismantle, but it is possible to be out I suppose....
I wouldnt worry about that too much Dane. The 0.2Bar offset would be within the ball-park for this sort of design, given that gauge errors and other things can accumulate to this sort of tolerance. If youre keen to set it up so that the min/max pressures are dialled in exactly to your preferred numbers, then you probably need to acquire a decent 2.0Bar Pressure Gauge to tie in to the p/stat circuit while you establish this setting. You could also calibrate the machine Boiler Pressure Gauge at the same time.
Alternatively, you could just set it up via the machine gauge and thereafter fine-tune the setting according to the machines performance. Mind you, a couple of decent pressure gauges - 1 x 2.0Bar and 1 x 12-15Bar wouldnt go astray for any future restore jobs you may take on... ;)
I am loI am looking for a couple of guages at the moment. Went to Reece, but they could not help me at the local one.Originally Posted by 517C787479150 link=1285131773/13#13 date=1288014998
On another note, I noticed that the power to my boiler element is passing through to the Sirai twice. Both the + and - wires to the boiler element are broken at the sirai. Therefore I am using two of three channels. This seems like it would add a little more safety, as the channels are independently sprung and if one welded shut, then the other would still be able to span open I think.
Havent tested it, but it makes sense.
Also, thinking of putting a SSR switch in thanks to suggestions by Mal.
This leads me to a quesiton though... why did I pay for a Sirai, which is a 30a switching beast, when I could have the trigger current for the SSR done by a little mater or something like this. Also, if using a mater, it should be ok longer as it is not doing any switching?
try a water filter / pump place they oftne have oil filled gauges that wight be goodOriginally Posted by 5F5A555E0E0F080A3B0 link=1285131773/14#14 date=1288218686
i am having a blond moment (i am blond ;D)Originally Posted by 5F5A555E0E0F080A3B0 link=1285131773/15#15 date=1288218896
if you replace a sari with a mater and SSR are you really gaining anything deadband wise? Are mater adjustable?
i would think you would be better off PID and SSR
i was thinking how you could run a thermo-well into the steam boiler via the hot water outlet hole on a boiler (i dont ever draw hot water from the boiler).
mine run this way and i like itOriginally Posted by 2227282373727577460 link=1285131773/14#14 date=1288218686
but have seen it also just the + leg running in and splitting the legs on the boiler to reduce the load on each + wire eg. two leg element on each leg on own wire
Do you mean 2x 10a wires per leg? or just 2x 10a wires on the + leg as this would allow a split through two channels of the sirai?Originally Posted by 6E626B66666F030 link=1285131773/17#17 date=1288222757
At the moment I have only 1x 10a wire for + and - element connector, both go through the Sirai.
on my Brugnetti its
comes into sirai
1x 10 amp wire one side + , one 10 amp wire on neg side **
out to bottom lugs on element (which then splits onto 3 "legs" of element using copper jumper bridges.
same as yours above *(
but i had a machine where it was 4000W and it ran two wires into sari both + and the Neg side ran back somewhere else to -
thats one wire each side of sirai (one spare)
i assume to reduce load on wires?
still had one spare in sirai
i have edited this to much not sure what reads rigth now.... I had a laugh
Does anyone know what the effect on the element lifespan is if the cycling is more frequent and shorter (ie narrower dead band on pressure stat)?
I was wondering if there is any significant problem for the emelent life if the machine cycles in a very tight pressure band?
replace that safety valve... theyre cheap, not worth fiddling with.
Hi Mishca, thanks for the comment. I have to say, I thought someone would say this earlier. However, when you take it apart, there is nothing wrong with it apart from a perished rubber seal. Its not so much about the money, more about the fact that it is a perfectly good qulity solid brass part, that really should be serviced not discarded.Originally Posted by 597D67777C75140 link=1285131773/21#21 date=1288231198
You guys are just confusing the heck out of each other (not Mischa though)... ;)
The reason that Sirai P/stats have three sets of contacts available is because they are rated for use with 3-Phase Supplies, which some commercial establishments use.
Using two or more sets to interrupt the heater element(s) current with a 1-Phase supply serves to provide a longer leakage path when the contacts Open or interrupt the circuit under load. Interrupting the circuit under load causes Arcing at the contacts as they open until such time as the Gap increases beyond which an Arc can be maintained.
However, all this Arcing at very high temperatures (2,000C+) erodes metal away from the contact material and in so doing, spatters metal vapour and particles around the immediate vicinity. The quicker the gap between contacts can be increased, the quicker the electrical arc can be extinguished thus reducing the wear and tear on the contact material. By splitting the 1-Phase connections between two or more sets of contacts, you increase the rate at which the contact gap increases.... Series Looping between two or more sets of contacts is the simplest means of achieving this.
Going back to the question of using a commercial quality Mater P/stat in circuit with an SSR, the so-called dead-band of these units is only about 0.08Bar (the unit fitted to my machine) and yes, they are fully adjustable. You can actually buy these units already fitted with an SSR as well as slightly older units which are fitted with a relay. If you can buy one of the newer units, then there is no need to worry about fitting and wiring in an additional SSR. If however, you have the older type with the Relay, then it is still a simple matter to fit and wire-in a suitably rated SSR - Any half decent sparky should be able to do this for you.
With regard to the cycling of heating elements. Obviously, the more you thermally stress a component, the quicker you are going to reach the end of its working life. If you insulate the Boiler in a machine, you significantly decrease thermal losses to the extent where element cycle times are drastically reduce as a result. Ergo - the heating element(s) will operate for longer before their end of working life is reached.
Hope this answers most of your questions.... ;)
So, I havent put the SSR in yet, but couldnt wait to give it a go. My only experience with a HX is a Elektra MicroCasa SA, which always requires an HX flush prior to brewing.
Can anyone help with experience of small commercial HX machines, or even better a Carimali Uno? It does not seem to have the same firebreathing dragon attributes of the Elektra, but I may have to increase the temp a little.
i gave a Faema e98 A1 (rotary model) to my sister (Cimbali re badged) about 2L boiler
it ran very hot due to the partly i think the group head arrangement that sort of directly bolts onto the boiler.
adjusting the temps via pstat seemed to have little influence on the length of the required flush, it did change the Boiler pressure and steam
my Brugnetti 5L boiler needs a flush as well and has a bolt on Ghead type setup and most of the other machines i have had (2grps) all seemed to need a flush if they sat a while.
i think the compromise in the home is the need for a flush on many commercial HXs if they sit for a while it all just gets hot.
the benefit i reckon i they can keep cranking out coffee no drama :)
get your flush right for taste (temp surf?) and then you get good consistency and great coffee :)
ANDOriginally Posted by 0F030A07070E620 link=1285131773/2#2 date=1285137294
I have also just had one land on my desk... Since 2003 has been sitting under a bench in a bakery.. Some parts such as spill tray missing..Originally Posted by 06030C0757565153620 link=1285131773/0#0 date=1285131773
Looks nothing like the clean unit you have..
In addition, power cable has been hot and the two rocker switches removed and ONE is blown to bits..
Thus any circuit diagrams and or manuals for said beast would be great.. May yet have a second is as poor condition, thus one from two ???
you dont want it.... *send it my way :)Originally Posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1285131773/26#26 date=1288865239
flick me your email addy for pdf goodness * ;)Originally Posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1285131773/26#26 date=1288865239
A couple of pics *;)
And yes I have already cleaned most of the flower and dried crap off and out of it.. *A mess it is, STILL.
Will be working hard to get the second one to at least look at...
Mine was a piece of cake to clean in comparison.
Also, I notice that you have a metal grate behind the group running down to the drip tray. Mine did not have this.
If you need any spares, I bought a broken 2 group from the same era to interchange parts with. Not sure what spares on it are working, but hey...
Ok, heres the pictures of my Uno on the bench after coffee this morning. Been using it for a couple of days and still getting used to it. Especially steaming, which I am finding a HUGE change from the Elektra MC SA.
Phworrrrrrrrrrr! Awesome setup.... looks like youve gone and spent a fortune. ;)Originally Posted by 76737C7727262123120 link=1285131773/30#30 date=1288905739
Yeah... but its all realtive. I had a Elektra MicroCasa SemiAuto and Rocky. Total price around $2000 (Bought the Elektra for $1500 new... dont ask). The total cost for the Mazzer Mini E and Polished and Uno has come in around the same price $2000-$2200.Originally Posted by 0313041515535251595652610 link=1285131773/31#31 date=1288908345
A bargain!!! :)Originally Posted by 47424D4616171012230 link=1285131773/32#32 date=1288909077
OK, so coffee is going ok, but I am having difficulty with getting really good shots. Specifically, I think the water flow is not being very forgiving. When I engage the pump without portafilter, I get around 300ml in 10 sec... so I think my pucks are getting slammed and there is effectively no pre-infusion at all.
I still have to check the pump pressure, but I should have a guage in the next day or two (its in the post) and can get that fixed.
In the meantime I am thinking about introducing some better preinfusion by either:
1) A smaller gicleur (current one is 1mm I think)
2) Some sort of water hammer arrestor on the group.
The other idea was that if a water hammer arrester works, then why wouldnt a small pressure vessel (say 60ml) not work too? The idea being that the pump would fill the vessel and compress the air inside as the puck resisted the water and pressure built. It would just act to increase the displacement already provided inside the group head, and lengthen the preinfusion time. If I reduce the water flow with a new gicleur to around 150ml/10sec, then a 60ml chamber (which should accomodate 45ml water) will increase preinfusion by roughly 3sec.
The only downside I can thinking of is the increased discharge going through the solenoid valve after the shot.
Hmmm... kinda thinking on the fly here so please let me know if I am completely on the wrong track.
Hi Dane, I have just bought a Carimali Uno as well.
How about using a triple-dose basket? My thinking is that the extra volume in the basket (as long as you dont updose) will give you the result youre after.
I just ordered a 0.8mm gicleur from coffeparts, will be interesting to see the result.
Unfortunately, I have been using the triple basket already. I am getting slightly better results with the triple than double, but still need some improvement.Originally Posted by 2226242A36102E3A2B2620282A2A244F0 link=1285131773/35#35 date=1289769851
Let me know how it goes. I have the 1mm, and I am sure it needs to go.Originally Posted by 2226242A36102E3A2B2620282A2A244F0 link=1285131773/35#35 date=1289769851
The pressure guage arrived today, and I measured the pressure at the portafilter with no needle vavle attached as exactly 10bar. So it is ok. Also, when I had the guage on, the ramp up to 10bar is very fast, 1-2 sec (I didnt bother to time it)
Mike, forgot to ask if it is running and what are your impressions of the machine? Post a picture if you can.Originally Posted by 2F2B29273B1D2337262B2D25272729420 link=1285131773/35#35 date=1289769851
Yep its running - bought it from Corporate Espresso in Auckland "fully serviced" and with a 3 month warranty. *Runs well, some cosmetics required and a bit of a clean but otherwise great! *Bought some new gaskets and a blind basket from Coffeeparts. *WARNING: *the blind basket from coffeeparts is slightly too large in diameter at the flange and will jam in the group (as me how I know...)
Still dialling it in, just running off a tank for now and have just ordered a pump pressure gauge so I can get into some serious finetuning.
Ill post some photos when I get my camera up and running. *Its pretty much in the same condition as Danes photos at the top of the thread. Side and back panels are painted metallic grey, slightly darker than Mazzer grey.
Anyone know where I can get Carimali decals from? *It would be nice to have the logo on the side and also the decals for the water/steam levers.
I found that one out too. Actually, the baskets that came with my Uno are all thinner rimmed than the athers I had lying around, so it it not just the blind that sticks in the group...Originally Posted by 5753515F43655B4F5E53555D5F5F513A0 link=1285131773/38#38 date=1289864077
Now I am thinking about just putting a small needle valve on top of the group so I can adjust as I like.Originally Posted by 5E5B545F0F0E090B3A0 link=1285131773/34#34 date=1289715085
Is it to do with an interference fit between the Basket and the Group Handle or is it down to the Basket Retaining Spring being too thick and strong? If the latter, a less robust spring might help out..... :-?Originally Posted by 30353A3161606765540 link=1285131773/39#39 date=1289892058
the Carimali baskets are a slightly different porfile on the outer lip rim of the basket compared to standard, well they are on mine.....Originally Posted by 05282C202D410 link=1285131773/40#40 date=1289896371
give Pedro at coffeeparts a ring and he will sort it out :) there is also a mob in Rozelle sydney i that do new Carimalis
The basket fits in the group handle ok but the basket flange is larger in diameter so it jams in the group. 5 minutes on a belt sander and youre good to go.
I wondered about using Weber carburettor jets as a gicleur. *Theyre flowmatched (any 0.80mm jet will flow the same) and available in 0.05mm steps. *Also less prone to blocking than a needle jet although the adjustability of a needle jet appeals. *
Actually when you compare a carburettor with an espresso machine theyre not that different...
Got the 0.8mm gicleur and a portafilter with gauge from Pedro at coffeeparts today. Will report back with some data!
I have a 0.6mm drill bit on the way and am going to get some silver solder to fill and re-drill my 1mm gicleur.
Cool Dane - keep us posted.
For anyone interested, heres a post that explains Weber jets being flowmatched: http://www.alfabb.com/BeanBay/forums/1900-2000-2600-1950-1968/158430-alfa-romeo-2600-weber-conversion-infos.html#post822146
Drilling is OK on a single carb or coffee machine but if you need to get uberfussy like the Alfa guys... ::)
Silver soldered the 1mm and re-drilled at 0.6mm today.
Installed and ran water cold. From around 250-300mm in 10sec, it is now down to 125mm in 10 sec.
Should have less issues with channeling tomorrow morning when I give it a try out.
I guess all you need to watch out for is that the Group gets hot enough within a reasonable time. I dont know of too many machines that use 0.6mm gicleurs....Originally Posted by 27222D2676777072430 link=1285131773/46#46 date=1290159178
Speaking of group temp, The group is not hot enough at the moment. The gicleur should be ok because it is not a thermosyphon loop bt directly connected to the boiler with a brass plate. I did not use any thermal conductor when I re-attached the group to the boiler so I dont think it is gettting 100% heat transmission.
However I still get plenty of hissing water, but it is from heat in the hx water rather than a hot group. It seems to taste ok for temp, so I guess the group is cooling the water to a reasonable temp. Just not sure if it is stable through the shot though. Just going to go by taste for a while and see.
Ah rightio mate... ::)
Wasnt aware it was a direct conduction system. Regarding the use or not of thermal interface compound at the join; so long as the mating surfaces were clean and bright at the time of bolting together, there wouldnt be any need to be honest.
To make sure the Group isnt sinking heat away from the Brew Water, you probably should run a few tests with a bead thermocouple sited on top of a coffee puck and then pull a few shots. Even better if you have the CS DMM as you could then take advantage of the Roast Monitor Software, adjust the chart config to suit and then record a real-time profile of whats going on.
At least that way, youll know for sure if the Group configuration is contributing to any brew problems. Its all a bit of fun though and youve done a terrific job on the resto mate, looks a million dollars.... 8-)