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Thread: Calling all BFC/Diadema owners - Past, Present and Future

  1. #101
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    Thanks for the welcome people. Loving the machine and what I can get out of it. Practice, practice, practice

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Hi Zoro
    Sorry to hear about your earlier incident.
    I've also got a Regal. Haven't had a switch fire (fortunately!) but have had a similar issue recently to your latest. My machine was about 5 years old too BTW…

    Just a question - when you switch it on, does the green light flicker on instantly but straight off again? This is what mine did, and turned out to be a relay that switches the element had blown, meaning the element wouldn't come on and heat…

    Let us know
    Matt
    Hey Matt thanks for replying.
    When I had the fire/sparks last year the green light did flicker .
    But yesterday there was no flicker, the orange light just stays on ( green light always off) but the machine does not heat up.
    Any way am taking machine for repairs later this week, hope the damage isn't too serious.
    Last edited by zoro; 3rd June 2014 at 09:04 PM.

  3. #103
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Hi Zoro
    Sounds like the best option
    If there is no green light at all, could be an element, relay or board - just hope it's an easy fix!
    Matt

  4. #104
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    This is a "follow-up" to my earlier comments about temperature adjustment problems and a possibly 'dead' thermostat.
    After a little bit of confusion as to where to get the new thermostat, I was able to get one from Jetblack Espresso.
    It was identical to the OE one, with the exception that the adjustment screw turns through 270 degrees whereas the OE one does only about 95 degrees.
    I did several 'trial & error' sessions over most of a day and eventually settled on an adjustment that gave me approx 90 - 94 degrees on the Meat Thermometer and looked right in terms of the amount of heat/lack of steam & spluttering it was giving off.
    I have done several lots of coffee at this setting and they were good which suggests adjustment seems to be pretty spot-on.
    Steaming works the way it should and the machine seems to get to it's temp and hold it without getting hotter and hotter.
    With a bit of luck it's problem solved. We will see.
    Dimal likes this.

  5. #105
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    I've just picked up a Diadema Junior with toggle switches last week from Cosmorex - they're currently having a sale on these machines and have almost 25% off RRP. Great customer service from everybody down there as well, was very happy doing business with them.

    I basically bought this because of the positive comments in this thread and the commercial quality components in the machine. I couldn't find much on the internet about these machines even when searching the Grimac Royal Falcon (American) name, but what I did read was very encouraging.

    After 4 days at home with the machine, I am already making waaaay better coffee than anything I can buy at work/nearby cafes.

    One thing I have noticed though - my low water reservoir volume alarm doesn't seem to be working (something I saw in the YouTube reviews of the machine). Does anyone know how to test/get this working?

  6. #106
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    Congrats on buying a great value machine. I have one of the other also excellent BFC models at home.

    Note, not all BFC Junior detrivative models have the "alarm" (as in an audible alarm)...some do, some dont, depending on the individual model. I dont know off hand if your model has it.

    However, they all have the low water cut out regardless...

    If the low water cut out is not functioning, thus allowing the machine to (suck) run the tank dry, it can be as simple as the positioning of the tank inside the body. Make sure the tank moves relatively freely up and down in place to allow it to come off the spring loaded switch at the bottom when the water level is low.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by oconnor View Post
    One thing I have noticed though - my low water reservoir volume alarm doesn't seem to be working (something I saw in the YouTube reviews of the machine). Does anyone know how to test/get this working?
    Welcome to the diadema world!

    I'm the OP. It sounds like we have the same machine with the switches. Mine is almost 2.5 years old and hasn't skipped a beat!

    Our model has no low water alarm. Just the cut off. Bummer I know... About the only negative! I simply fill up my tank every second day.

  8. #108
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    Long time lurker - first time poster.

    I have been luring for a few months whilst making up my mind on what type of coffee machine and complementary grinder. After much consternation we (wife and I) decided on a Diadema Unico Splendor and a Macap M4 grinder. I purchased the 2 items ad have progressed through 3 kilos. I have bought a few kilos of Woolworths beans - Vittoria, Lavazza (2 types) of whole roasted beans and played with the grind and managed to get it right now. Going well with good consistent crème and textured milk. Very happy overall

    I'm about to move on to a local roasters blend available to me, so I am eager to try the blend but I still have a few days to wait for it to be ready. I was going to try to roast my own green beans but I need to walk before I run. I have bought a popcorn popper in readiness though

    I wanted to thank the learned folk here for their contributions, direction and opinions.
    Last edited by steventhechef; 20th September 2014 at 07:19 PM.

  9. #109
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    I've owned my Diadema from new - I bought it in May 2010 in Canberra.

    I love the machine - it makes awesome coffee.

    I do want to find out other peoples experiences with the machine....

    In March 2011 the machine stopped working completely and the service agents inspected the machine and replaced the pressure static relay (under warranty) but also found that the probes in the boiler and pressure release valves were scaled and needed cleaning and reseating. The under-cup washer was also dry and hard. The machine was fixed for around $400 and I paid for about 1/2 of it, the rest being under warranty.

    In March 2014 after 3 years of faultless service, the machine stopped again - didn't heat, no pressure etc. The service agent found the Electronic Control Unit 30MZ had failed, the relay on the pressure stati was blown, the water probes were scaled, the on-off switch needed replacing plus all the usual serviceable items needed replacing - cost me almost $800. I was a little annoyed but figured 3 years.... maybe it's not so bad.

    Then in October 2014 the same thing happens again - 6 months after - exact same symptoms. I took it into the service agent Cosmorex (who i bought it off) and they're looking at it - I refused to pay the quote fee though which they got a bit narky about but i thought i was justified in not paying..... anyway i'd like to know what other peoples experiences are with the same machine?

    My machine makes about 10 - 12 coffees a day. I use the boiler to make tea as well. I back-flush every week. I do a full clean about every 9 weeks or so. I test the local water with the testing kit and the strip is always yellow - Canberra has pretty clean water and it certainly isn't hard. My previous machine was a Gaggia Classic Coffee which I had for about 8 years - I cleaned it maybe once a year and changed the o-ring in the head perhaps 3 times and it was still making pretty good coffee when I parted with it. So while my Diadema is not really being taxed and it had a clear 3 year unblemished stretch it does seem to suffer from systemic component failures.

    So what are your experiences?
    Is it normal that after 7 months a new machine is scaled to such an extent that it needs cleaning by a technician?
    The same with the under-cup washer, so dry and cracked after only 7 months - how often do you change yours?
    Is it normal to expect electrical components to fail and need replacing? How often?
    Does your machine scale up quickly?
    How often do you get your machine serviced? How much servicing do you do yourself?

    Thanks

    N

  10. #110
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    Hi zazooACT
    I've had a Diadema for over 6 years now. One blown relay (after 5 years or so) and some basic group seals that I've done myself (even the main group seal lasted 5 years!). But other than that I can't fault it. A really great machine.
    Just a question - with 10-12 coffees a day, sounds like you might leave it on 24/7? That'll certainly reduce the time req'd between servicing. And the combo of heat, water and electricity is always going to require maintenance of some sort - bad combo really!
    Do you keep the resin filter in the tank clean and recharge it every now and again in salt water? Our water must be good out here too - with the filter in place I've never needed to descale. I do clean-water back flush every session and a chemical flush once a week, and leave the p/f handle in all the time - if yours is getting hard and dry, are you leaving it out?
    Just some thoughts - don't give up on a great machine!
    Cheers Matt

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by zazooACT View Post
    Is it normal that after 7 months a new machine is scaled to such an extent that it needs cleaning by a technician?
    The seems to be the biggest clue that all is not as it seems with your water TDS testing regime. I'd grab a better and more accurate test kit or take samples of your water to someone who has one. Test strips do 'go off' after a time and can not be relied upon if they are too old or old stock.

    Mal.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Which model Diadema are you talking about? There are several of them.

    Mine (a Reale) purchased late 2011 had one minor warranty fix soon after purchase (the on/off switch was a bit loose), and once the anti-vac valve stuck but I sorted that myself easily enough.....but has basically run like a train otherwise. I'm in Canberra as well, I run all my drinking water (and therefore water for coffee) through a Brita benchtop filter (coz our pipes are old and the water doesn't taste great), and regularly refresh the in tank sediment filter.

  13. #113
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    It's odd that they replaced so many things for just one fault. It is worth making sure you get a full diagnostic report with the current issues that have been resolved and any preventative work being done and being clearly explained to you why you are needing to spend the extra money.

    Why did you need to pay for half of the warranty repair costs? Was it classed as standard wear and tear items?

    They were quite right to be unhappy about your reluctance to pay the quote fee. Unless their terms state that their repairs are guaranteed for a period of say, 6 months or however long in between services it was, then it's just a normal repair. Irritating for you though, but from a business standpoint it is justified.

    Is your machine a Unico Splendor? Pretty nice machines and a solid performer most of the time, you get bad eggs in any situation though, you just might be the unlucky one unfortunately.
    Just one thing you might want to check on your machine, check to see if it has a sticker or label with a code starting with a triangle with a tick in it followed by a letter and then some numbers. This is the compliance label for legal sale in Australia. I fear to say that I have not yet seen any Splendor's, or Diadema machines in general, with the appropriate labelling for sale in Australia which is concerning.

    Maybe other BFC owners can check as well and see if theirs is labelled correctly?

  14. #114
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    Just one thing you might want to check on your machine, check to see if it has a sticker or label with a code starting with a triangle with a tick in it followed by a letter and then some numbers. This is the compliance label for legal sale in Australia. I fear to say that I have not yet seen any Splendor's, or Diadema machines in general, with the appropriate labelling for sale in Australia which is concerning.

    Maybe other BFC owners can check as well and see if theirs is labelled correctly?

    Ummm, wasn't the latest RCM stuff introduced last year sometime, with lengthy transition arrangements (3-5 years), and some degree of uncertainty over which states will require it (I thought NSW was not playing ball at all). Maybe I'm thinking of something different to what you are envisaging.

    I certainly don't have an RCM sticker on my Diadema, but nor do I have it on my iron, grinder, or breville maker.

  15. #115
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    Hi - Thanks for those who replied.
    My machine is a Diadema Junior Electronica.
    I replace the resin filter every six months - and i've not tried recharging in salt water - any tips on this?
    I do leave it running 24/7 - I have tried having it on a timer but because of the current it draws I went throught about 3 timers in a very short period! I need espresso first thing in the morning - throughout the day - and very often well into the evenings and before bed (wierd I know).
    I leave the group out - perhaps i should leave it in.....? I would've though chemical wash every week would be over-kill.... Cosmorex simply said water backflush once a week and chemical clean every 8 to 10 weeks.....
    This time the fault was a pressure stat and this is the third time it's blown, the last one was 6 months ago (when I paid over $700 for the service). Cosmorex (who I bought the machine from) offered to replace it for free (worth about $30) or I could get an upgrade to a sealed pressure stat (about $170) and i'll never have the problem again - i accepted the upgrade but really, with such an exposed and crucial component inside the machine being exposed to heat and moisture constantly one has to ask was this safe in the first place and even if it was is it good design? I mean, what do commercial machines have?
    Cosmorex do provide full diagnostics and they explain each item when they ring you but I don't know what is considered critical and what's not.... but the way i look at it is in terms of "reasonable use" which is the way consumer law seems to be oriented in this country these days so I asked myself "I spent $700 on a coffee machine I paid $2500 for, is it reasonable for it to fail after 6 months?" The answer is "no" and any consumer tribunal would agree regardless of what the terms of the merchant are - for exmple Apple learnt this the hard way in this country - terms have to fair. The rep I dealt insisted on the $88 quote fee and I insisted that it wasn't reasonable to expect me to pay - i won. Then I negotiated on the price on the new pressure stat.
    My machine is humming along now - and it's much quieter too (no more of the noisy clicking on and off).
    I also spent $239 and bought a Nespresso to keep in the cupboard for emergencies.......

  16. #116
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Not sure they're expected to be left running 24/7 Zazooact, as noted above, that will shorten the calendar time life of components. The $700 you paid surely wasn't just for the same part that failed now, and which they offered to replace for free? Maybe I'm missing something.

  17. #117
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    Agreed,

    FWIW, if scale is in the system, it can and does block lines to pressurestats and ultimately kills them. I would think that a $700 fee would have been a "bring it back from the dead" repair and service- most probably including a labour intensive descale.

    All users have their own set of circumstances which contribute to the lifespans of machines and of their components. Lack of quality filtration and 24/7 operation will influence longevity and the requirement for service and repairs: i.e service interval. In this case, we have at best 50% of the story.

    We have found CosmoreX to be a company which conducts business with very high integrity- over many, many transactions.
    Last edited by TC; 13th October 2014 at 08:07 PM. Reason: ytpo

  18. #118
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    Without a doubt the reason you've had ongoing issues with failed electrical components is because the machine is on 24-7. The combination of high duty cycles and close proximity to heat and occasional moisture is death to all electrical components but particularly switches (pressurestat) and pcb-mount transformers (Gicar 30uZ control board). The compounds that seals, o rings etc. are made of will also be affected by heat in the same way and lifespans reduced accordingly.

    While it may be an expectation of purchasers of 'prosumer' E61 to be able to do this with their machines, the reality is that you will be lucky to get a year of constant use (machine on and hot, regardless of cups made) out of ANY machine other than full commercial grade, or, ironically, your previous Gaggia.

    The pressurestat is a good example. It's switching a high wattage load (the boiler element) on and off constantly to keep the boiler pressure where it needs to be. If it does that for an hour that might be circa 50 switching cycles, each time a tiny percentage of the switch contact gets vaporised by an arc as it breaks the circuit.

    If the machine is on for 3 hours daily (what I would consider average for domestic kit) that's 150 cycles a day or roughly 55,000 a year. In a constant on situation that number becomes 8,400 cycles a day or nearly 440,000 cycles a year. A component's reliability and duty cycle rating will also drastically be reduced for higher temperature environments, and thats exactly what you get when the machine is on constantly.

    Commercial machines have plenty of space internally where sensitive components can be placed far away from sources of heat, and BIG heavy duty pressurestats that are often over-specified for the switching load can be used.

    It sounds like they put a solid state relay in with the new pressurestat, while an improvement this will not solve your long term problems with reliability if you continue to run the machine all day, the new control board will probably have a similar lifespan.

    Sounds like you need to address the problem with a more reliable timer.

  19. #119
    TOK
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    Welcome to CS.

    Quote Originally Posted by zazooACT View Post
    ....My machine is a Diadema Junior Electronica.
    I replace the resin filter every six months - and i've not tried recharging in salt water - any tips on this?
    I do leave it running 24/7 - I have tried having it on a timer but because of the current it draws I went throught about 3 timers in a very short period! I need espresso first thing in the morning - throughout the day - and very often well into the evenings and before bed (wierd I know).
    I leave the group out - perhaps i should leave it in.....? I would've though chemical wash every week would be over-kill.... Cosmorex simply said water backflush once a week and chemical clean every 8 to 10 weeks.....
    This time the fault was a pressure stat and this is the third time it's blown, the last one was 6 months ago (when I paid over $700 for the service). Cosmorex (who I bought the machine from) offered to replace it for free (worth about $30) or I could get an upgrade to a sealed pressure stat (about $170) and i'll never have the problem again - i accepted the upgrade but really, with such an exposed and crucial component inside the machine being exposed to heat and moisture constantly one has to ask was this safe in the first place and even if it was is it good design? I mean, what do commercial machines have?
    Cosmorex do provide full diagnostics and they explain each item when they ring you but I don't know what is considered critical and what's not.... but the way i look at it is in terms of "reasonable use" which is the way consumer law seems to be oriented in this country these days so I asked myself "I spent $700 on a coffee machine I paid $2500 for, is it reasonable for it to fail after 6 months?" The answer is "no" and any consumer tribunal would agree regardless of what the terms of the merchant are - for exmple Apple learnt this the hard way in this country - terms have to fair. The rep I dealt insisted on the $88 quote fee and I insisted that it wasn't reasonable to expect me to pay - i won. Then I negotiated on the price on the new pressure stat.
    My machine is humming along now - and it's much quieter too (no more of the noisy clicking on and off).
    I also spent $239 and bought a Nespresso to keep in the cupboard for emergencies.......
    On a point by point basis:

    Great machine.

    The small size resin filters are probably saturated after a few weeks and therefore ineffective softeners thereafter, which is why there are instructions supplied with the machine to do with re charging them to keep them working long term. Leaving them for 6 months is counter productive...

    As has already been stated above with excellent detailed explanation, the problem has been caused by allowing the machine to run 24/7.

    Yes the machine was a safe design in the first place and it used similar parts and design to other brand models of the time. The manufacturer (BFC) is progressive and has an ongoing R & D programme and listens to its importers and agents. Over time it improved the design by replacing the older style miniature pressurestats and relays with later type miniature pressurestats that incorporate a solid state relay. Just because General Motors has now makes a modern Commodore, that doesn't mean early model Holden's were unsafe.

    Take care not to confuse normal "wear and tear" and occasional R & M with "reasonable use", especially in the instance where the machine is being left on 24/7. No espresso machine is intended to be left on 24/7 including commercials, and that is another story...

    Hope that helps.

  20. #120
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    Barry O - the $700 was for a box they call 'the brains', an on-off switch and light, a new pressure stati and the the various o-rings, filters and other consumables plus labour.
    It's the pressure stati that failed again shortly afterwards which they offered to replace free (which I opted to upgrade).

  21. #121
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    TOK, coffee_machinist, Talk_Coffee - thanks for your input. It would seem the single best thing I could do at this point is reduce the cycles by not running 24/7.

    Does anyone run their machines on a timer? it would seem the ones sold at local hardware stores are crap so if anyone can recommend one......

    Do commercial machines have timers?

  22. #122
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    I purchased a used Diadema Perfetta from JetBlackEspresso which is a great machine. It feels much more solid than the VBM Junior I have especially around the drip tray. Going to be selling this machine soon as we upgraded to a VBM Junior for the double boiler.

  23. #123
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    We have a Diadema Junior toggle which we bough from Cosmorex about 5 years ago. It has steady use during the day and is switched off at night. It normally is fed filtered water and the resin filter has never changed colour. Cosmorex replaced the pump and resin filter about 6 months ago.

    Anyway it blew the pressure relief valve yesterday about an hour after t had made a few coffees. The gauge had risen from about the usual 1.2 bar to 2 bar when this happened. It was immediately switched off but switched on again that evening when it behaved itself as it has since.

    I suspect the pressurestat but am not sure that I should replace it or wait to see if the problem repeats. What type of pressurestat does this machine use and can it be replaced with a different type? I am pretty much hands on having brought an old Brasilia 2 Gp commercial machine back to life after some advice from Coffee Parts staff so would like to tackle this myself.

  24. #124
    TOK
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    Nice machine. It's probably a mater type mini pressurestat with outboard relays.

    If you were to decide to replace, CosmoreX Coffee may still have stock of both but you would have to call them to find out.

    Regardless, there have been 2 upgrades that I know of since that time.

    The first was to a mini pressurestat with integrated SSR, and the last was to the "small" Sirai pressurestat.

    So you have a choice of 3 systems, given the following provisos:
    a) changing out to similar as is already fitted is the simplest job, probably dependent on spare parts;
    b) changing to the SSR type would probably require a small amount of rewiring to suit;
    c) changing to the Sirai will require some rewiring and probably the fitment of a replacement feed pipe, because due to its larger size, it may be placed in a different position in the body.

    Ultimately, you will need to refer your enquiry about which way to deal with this, to CosmoreX Coffee and or ask them what they recommend.

    Hope that helps.

  25. #125
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    Thanks TOK. Most helpful. Attracted to using the small Sirai as I understand it a fairly commonly used pressurestat and would make future servicing easier. Will investigate. At the moment the machine is behaving. We have changed our procedures so we do not leave the it turned on as much. I had initially thought switching on and off would wear it out more with the temperature changes but now understand the extended heating periods may be worse for it (wiring etc).

    Regards
    Ted

  26. #126
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    TOK, A follow up question.

    Given there have been two pressurestat upgrades to this machine suggests there have been reliability issues with the original pressurestat. I wonder if the issue was with the relay rather than the pressurestat itself?

  27. #127
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    Gather from your post # 123 that you are managing the machine well. ('''Diadema Junior...bough(t) from Cosmorex about 5 years ago...steady use during the day...switched off at night...replaced the pump and resin filter about 6 months ago...").

    Those that dont manage their machines well (such as those left on indefinitely to cycle ad infinitum despite not being in use) can have self inflicted "reliability" issues with components cycling their way to premature failure.

    The standard of components used by this manufacturer has always been excellent, however that doesnt stop any manufacturer from R & D and seeking to improve their products in whatever way over time.

    In regard to the behaviour your machine has manifested, it would be advantageous as in certainly more cost effective not to mention simpler all round, to look at the relay board first (rather than seeking to modify to later model pressurestat assemblies).

    " We have changed our procedures so we do not leave the it turned on as much...".
    Yes, there is no need for it to be on if not actually in use.

    "...I had initially thought switching on and off would wear it out more with the temperature changes but now understand the extended heating periods may be worse for it (wiring etc)...."
    Dont worry about "temperature changes" and "extended heating periods"....these are furphies that have been bandied around the www for years through cyclic regurgitation. There is no evidence to suggest there are any real world problems due to that in modern equipment.

    What IS the problem, is people leaving machines on ad infinitum to cycle (refer previous paragraph) despite that they are not in use. This effectively ensures that individual components are accelerated through their expected / designed in life cycles to premature failure, despite that they are not even being used to make coffee....

    A machine fitted with a good quality miniature pressurestat assembly, that is managed properly (not left on ad infinitum), will not have a problem for some time...whereas the same machine left on 24/7 will burn out the relay in the first year. That is not the machine's fault, and these babies are very well designed and built and perform in excellent manner.

    My personal home use machine is a 2 year old BFC Unico Splendor which internally, is pretty much the same as yours except for the later pressurestat with integrated SSR. I only switch it on when I want to use it (couple of times a day)....its good for the machine, and its good for my back pocket (nsw country area electricity rates are not good for the budget conscious). The machine has never had a problem.

    Hope that helps.

  28. #128
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    TOK

    Thanks for the very helpful advice.

    Currently the unit is behaving itself.

    >The standard of components used by this manufacturer has always been excellent, however that doesnt stop any manufacturer from R & D and seeking to improve their products in whatever way over time.

    Yes I agree. The weakest parts compared to a commercial machine seem to be the pump and the pressurestat and these probably relate to the need to make prosumer machines more compact

    >In regard to the behaviour your machine has manifested, it would be advantageous as in certainly more cost effective not to mention simpler all round, to look at the relay board first (rather than seeking to modify to later model pressurestat assemblies).

    Makes sense. Will check it out.

    > A machine fitted with a good quality miniature pressurestat assembly, that is managed properly (not left on ad infinitum), will not have a problem for some time...whereas the same machine left on 24/7 will burn out the relay in the first year. That is not the machine's fault, and these babies are very well designed and built and perform in excellent manner.

    Very useful advice,

    >My personal home use machine is a 2 year old BFC Unico Splendor which internally, is pretty much the same as yours except for the later pressurestat with integrated SSR. I only switch it on when I want to use it (couple of times a day)....its good for the machine, and its good for my back pocket (nsw country area electricity rates are not good for the budget conscious). The machine has never had a problem.

    Ours gets pretty consistent use between 10 am and 9 pm most days when we are home. It gave us 4 1/2 years trouble free service before the pump failed and it makes great coffee.

    >Hope that helps.

    Certainly did.

    regards

    Ted

  29. #129
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    Unico Splendor question

    Hi all

    I have just upgraded last week from a Silvia v3 and sunbeam em480 and purchased a new diadema Unico Splendor and a Macap M4D from Cosmorex. The difference between my old gear and the new is night and day, for eg we hear time and time again about the importance of a good quality grinder but until you experience the difference it's hard to truly appreciate it.

    However I have an issue with the Unico: the espressos are lukewarm when extracted. I allow the machine 30-45 mins to warm up, I have the portafilter in the group during that time, the cup has been warmed up and then I extract a double shot. Most of the time the resulting espresso seems under temp and often decidedly lukewarm. However the machines steam function works well and the hot water tap seems to deliver water at an appropriate temp. In fact when I compare the temp from the hot water wand with the water straight out of the group the temp of water from the hot water wand is significantly higher.

    Ironically the problem I had with the Silvia was that I struggled to temp surf down to an appropriate brew temp as the resulting shots tended to be a tad too hot.

    before I take the machine back to have it checked I wanted to know if anyone else had this issue arise?
    also is there anyway of adjusting brew temp on a HX machine, my understanding is you can't but I thought I would check. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
    cheers

  30. #130
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    G'day mate...

    After warm-up, what pressure is indicated on the Boiler Pressure Gauge? Should be within the region of 1.1-1.3 BAR...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    G'day mate...

    After warm-up, what pressure is indicated on the Boiler Pressure Gauge? Should be within the region of 1.1-1.3 BAR...

    Mal.
    Hi Mal

    boiler pressure is consistently between 1 and 1.1.

    Also when extracting the green light will usually come on briefly, not sure it should do that or not.
    cheers

  32. #132
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    Hi Mal

    boiler pressure is consistently between 1 and 1.1.

    Also when extracting the green light will usually come on briefly, not sure it should do that or not.
    cheers
    My Diadema Reale, also purchased through Cosomorex, has had similar pressure readings for the past 3 years....without any of the problems that you describe. I'd give Cosmorex a ring.

    Do you start the machine with steam valve open, and shut it when steam starts to be released?

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    My Diadema Reale, also purchased through Cosomorex, has had similar pressure readings for the past 3 years....without any of the problems that you describe. I'd give Cosmorex a ring.

    Do you start the machine with steam valve open, and shut it when steam starts to be released?
    Hi Barry
    no I usually start it with the steam valve closed. What's the purpose of starting up with it open?
    cheers

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    Hi Barry
    no I usually start it with the steam valve closed. What's the purpose of starting up with it open?
    cheers
    To stop the possibility of 'false pressure' being detected I believe. Did you get a set of Cosmorex-issued user instructions with the machine (I did)?

    It can't hurt to a) turn machine off, opening steam valve when you do it, let it sit for a while, then b) turn back on with steam valve open and wait till steam is clearly emerging from wand, close steam valve and allow to come up to pressure / temperature. Let sit for 20-25 minutes.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    To stop the possibility of 'false pressure' being detected I believe. Did you get a set of Cosmorex-issued user instructions with the machine (I did)?

    It can't hurt to a) turn machine off, opening steam valve when you do it, let it sit for a while, then b) turn back on with steam valve open and wait till steam is clearly emerging from wand, close steam valve and allow to come up to pressure / temperature. Let sit for 20-25 minutes.
    No nothing from Cosmorex other than the box and the stock manual.

    started up as you suggested this morning. Checked the boiler pressure gauge closely while the machine was idle and am finding that's it's cycling between .9 and 1.2.
    It seems to sit at .9 for about 50 secs then ramps up to 1.2 and then settles back to .9 over the next 60 secs give or take and then the cycle starts again. Not sure if this is normal or not. But I waited till bar pressure was 1.2 before pulling a shot and resulting coffee was just warm. Looks like dropping it back into Cosmorex is the next step.

  36. #136
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    No nothing from Cosmorex other than the box and the stock manual.

    started up as you suggested this morning. Checked the boiler pressure gauge closely while the machine was idle and am finding that's it's cycling between .9 and 1.2.
    It seems to sit at .9 for about 50 secs then ramps up to 1.2 and then settles back to .9 over the next 60 secs give or take and then the cycle starts again. Not sure if this is normal or not. But I waited till bar pressure was 1.2 before pulling a shot and resulting coffee was just warm. Looks like dropping it back into Cosmorex is the next step.
    Sounds like a good idea. Probably worth ringing them first thing Monday in case they can save you the trip. Was it demo stock by any chance?

    Mine cycles between 0.9 and 1.1, FWIW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Sounds like a good idea. Probably worth ringing them first thing Monday in case they can save you the trip. Was it demo stock by any chance?

    Mine cycles between 0.9 and 1.1, FWIW.
    I was told the machine was new - it had all the protective film so I think that's right. I must admit the package price was amazingly low- significantly lower than any quote from site sponsors - so now I'm wondering why.

  38. #138
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    I think it's always best to refer any concerns to your supplying dealer first.

    Your machine sounds to be working correctly to me. Many people have an expectation that espresso will be scalding hot. It shouldn't be. It's actually normal that you should be able to "down" an espresso in one mouthful. If it is in fact cold, thin body, pale crema and sourness will accompany that- even if all aspects of dose, grind and pour rate are perfect.

    The behaviour you describe indicates that your machine is operating normally as if there was an anti-vac valve issue, your machine would appear to heat and then when you requested the first steam for the day, you would find there was no steam pressure.

    My advice? Check your machine against one of their demo machines and see where that takes you.

    CosmoreX is a highly reputable company and I know that they bench test their gear- as we do. There is no way they'd deliberately offload a cheap, faulty machine as a perfect example.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I think it's always best to refer any concerns to your supplying dealer first.

    Your machine sounds to be working correctly to me. Many people have an expectation that espresso will be scalding hot. It shouldn't be. It's actually normal that you should be able to "down" an espresso in one mouthful. If it is in fact cold, thin body, pale crema and sourness will accompany that- even if all aspects of dose, grind and pour rate are perfect.

    The behaviour you describe indicates that your machine is operating normally as if there was an anti-vac valve issue, your machine would appear to heat and then when you requested the first steam for the day, you would find there was no steam pressure.

    My advice? Check your machine against one of their demo machines and see where that takes you.
    Thanks. I realise there was no obvious fault so i thought I would check in on the forum in case there was something obvious that I was or wasn't doing as I have zero experience with HX machines.
    Just for the record I don't expect coffee to be scalding. I was comparing temps from espressos I regularly buy from quality cafés and my machine seems to consistently produce coffee decidedly cooler than I get from those cafés.

    But I agree checking against one of their demo machines sounds is the logical next step.
    Last edited by Recaffinated; 19th April 2015 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Grammar bad

  40. #140
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Sounds like it is working fine - my reale sits at about 1.1 bar. It might just take some adjustment if your previous brews have been scalding hot? I heat my cups with the water tap and the brews are hot - but certainly not burn your mouth hot and as Chris said - neither are they supposed to be

  41. #141
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    Just a thought - is the group head hot to touch? If in transport you get air in the system the boiler and steam will be fine but the group might stay cold. You will get some heat through the heat exchange, but not enough for a good brew...

  42. #142
    TOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    I was told the machine was new - it had all the protective film so I think that's right. I must admit the package price was amazingly low- significantly lower than any quote from site sponsors - so now I'm wondering why.
    Hi. Yes, your machine is NEW unless you have knowingly been sold a demo, and as has already been stated there is no reason to believe that your machine is not operating entirely as it should. Further, just because a machine (not yours) may be a demo, doesn't mean it wont be operating entirely as it should...

    It is quite a "shock" to go from a domestic to a semi commercial machine, where the semi commercial is much much better controlled and certainly doesn't have the wild temperature fluctuations of a silvia. I can understand why someone may at first, think the machine is running a bit cooler than the silvia...it probably is....for good reason.

    Be careful in trying to make comparisons of temperature between what you are drinking now, and what you drank in a cafe some time ago (yesterday, last week, whatever). It is well known that you wont get an accurate picture of that unless you are cupping off both coffees at the same time on a side by side comparison.

    The package price is amazingly low because our retail economy is u/s, cactus, whatever word you would like to insert. This has been very very good for consumers as prices have been coming down around their ears. That doesn't mean the equipment isnt of the same excellent standard that it was when the price was higher.

    I would say give CosmoreX a call and discuss, but give it another week and see how you feel then. If at that point you still think the machine is somehow running cool, take it in. That is my feeling because I am well aware of the fact that clients need a certain period to get used to the new equipment, in which time many of the questions that first popped into their mind have been put to rest with a better understanding as time goes on.

    Great machine by the way, I've just traded my 2 year old Splendor for a new Junior Elite (same internals as Splendor but with the advantages of a rotary pump). As you found, the price of my rotary pumped Elite was also very very "convenient". My Splendor never missed a beat, never had a problem, and always produced the ducks guts in my cup in the time I had it at home.

    Hope that helps.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Just a thought - is the group head hot to touch? If in transport you get air in the system the boiler and steam will be fine but the group might stay cold. You will get some heat through the heat exchange, but not enough for a good brew...
    Hi DBC
    yep the group seems very hot, so another indicator that the machine seems to be operating normally. I guess the purpose of the post was to check if there were any user tweaks that would increase brew temp because a few degrees would get it into the zone.

    interestingly I've read that a HX operates at a good brew temp even when you extract a few shots in a row. I found if I do 3 shots in a row that each subsequent shot is noticeably cooler than the previous shot. The first shot would be warm and almost at what I would call acceptable temp but the second and third shots seem tepid.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    Hi. Yes, your machine is NEW unless you have knowingly been sold a demo, and as has already been stated there is no reason to believe that your machine is not operating entirely as it should. Further, just because a machine (not yours) may be a demo, doesn't mean it wont be operating entirely as it should...

    It is quite a "shock" to go from a domestic to a semi commercial machine, where the semi commercial is much much better controlled and certainly doesn't have the wild temperature fluctuations of a silvia. I can understand why someone may at first, think the machine is running a bit cooler than the silvia...it probably is....for good reason.

    Be careful in trying to make comparisons of temperature between what you are drinking now, and what you drank in a cafe some time ago (yesterday, last week, whatever). It is well known that you wont get an accurate picture of that unless you are cupping off both coffees at the same time on a side by side comparison.

    The package price is amazingly low because our retail economy is u/s, cactus, whatever word you would like to insert. This has been very very good for consumers as prices have been coming down around their ears. That doesn't mean the equipment isnt of the same excellent standard that it was when the price was higher.

    I would say give CosmoreX a call and discuss, but give it another week and see how you feel then. If at that point you still think the machine is somehow running cool, take it in. That is my feeling because I am well aware of the fact that clients need a certain period to get used to the new equipment, in which time many of the questions that first popped into their mind have been put to rest with a better understanding as time goes on.

    Great machine by the way, I've just traded my 2 year old Splendor for a new Junior Elite (same internals as Splendor but with the advantages of a rotary pump). As you found, the price of my rotary pumped Elite was also very very "convenient". My Splendor never missed a beat, never had a problem, and always produced the ducks guts in my cup in the time I had it at home.

    Hope that helps.
    Thanks TOK

    everything you say makes sense to me.
    Cheers

  45. #145
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    Glad to help

  46. #146
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    FWIW and not because I am anal about it but it gave me thought to check my Unico Splendour and these are the figures that I came up with.

    25 minutes warm up (without the wand open) 1.1 bar Group head was 92C with the portafilter in place at the spout exit. Whilst brewing a double shot after 15 seconds the extract was 84C at the spout The cup is thick ceramic and was prewarmed. The extract in the cup was 64C after 30 seconds.

    Not rocket science but it may give you something to compare to

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by steventhechef View Post
    FWIW and not because I am anal about it but it gave me thought to check my Unico Splendour and these are the figures that I came up with.

    25 minutes warm up (without the wand open) 1.1 bar Group head was 92C with the portafilter in place at the spout exit. Whilst brewing a double shot after 15 seconds the extract was 84C at the spout The cup is thick ceramic and was prewarmed. The extract in the cup was 64C after 30 seconds.

    Not rocket science but it may give you something to compare to
    thanks for that Steventhechef. I decided to take the machine in to the supplier this morning and they said they would test it today and give me a call. While I was there however they made me a coffee on their warmed up demo machine and the espresso seemed significantly hotter than what I was getting on my machine, of course heeding TOKs caution regarding perception problems of not doing side by side comparisons.
    Cheers
    TC likes this.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recaffinated View Post
    thanks for that Steventhechef. I decided to take the machine in to the supplier this morning and they said they would test it today and give me a call. While I was there however they made me a coffee on their warmed up demo machine and the espresso seemed significantly hotter than what I was getting on my machine, of course heeding TOKs caution regarding perception problems of not doing side by side comparisons.
    Cheers
    I thought I'd better report back on this despite feeling a bit of a goose. Cosmorex spent yesterday testing the machine and when I went in this morning they explained that it was operating perfectly well. Using a Scace I was shown that temp at the group was around 90 deg for the first shot after considerable idle time and then subsequent shots were around 86 deg.
    So clearly operating at optimum temps.
    i guess I learnt two things:
    1. Perception can be very subjective and unreliable and nothing beats objective testing
    2. The benefits of buying equipment from a reputable full service business and realising you are paying for the expertise and after sales service. I have to commend Cosmorex for taking the time to ensure there was nothing wrong with machine and for being very gracious about the fact.
    cheers

  49. #149
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    A bit late to this thread but heres my setup. BFC Classica and MXA grinder.
    Its been nearly 7 years since i got these bad boys. Still going strong.

    TOK and IrisGanache like this.

  50. #150
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    Good Afternoon one and all,

    Just bought a Perfetta from Sam678, a credit to Sam on its condition.

    Firstly - WOW. What a machine to look at.

    Now I have had a small lesson n the machine, but was wondering if there is anywhere that there might be a user manual or detailed instructions on these? Google has thrown me to the forum's many threads but I was looking for a manual or at least a "how-to guide" to make sure I am doing the unit justice?

    Off to upgrade the grinder while the manual hunt continues, oh and the tamp, the tamp mat, the scales.....
    How much fun is this setting up caper!!
    TOK likes this.

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