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Thread: Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

  1. #1
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    Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

    Hi

    I am looking to upgrade my machine and have narrowed they crazy amount of choices down to two machines the Profitec 500 and ECM T IV Profi WT-TC, really based on what appears to the quality of the machines.

    They are both around the same price, from what I can see the Profitec appears to have a slight edge on quality, the ECM has a Rotary pump and the the pressure gauges are better located. Other than that they appear to be on par.

    Does anyone have any experience that would help me to break this deadlock

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    G'day Smoothbrew,
    I'll preface my post by saying that I have no experience with either machine, but they both seem to be very capable, high quality machines.
    If you have definitely settled for either one of these 2 and you can't be swayed to other choices, I would highly recommend that you have a play with both of them, even better if you can do it side by side.
    At this upper end of the spendy spectrum, you'll find the differences in certain functions, ergonomics and functionality to be minor at best. Having said that, a minor difference can be the difference between 'loving' and 'putting up with' a machine.
    You might find that a switch action on one machine really irks you, or the way the lever operates may be different on each machine. These tiny things can be deal breakers and unless you've tried each one, you'll never really know how irksome a certain function of a machine is until after you've spent your hard earned and it's sitting on your bench.
    Sorry I couldn't offer you any advice on the machines you've mentioned, but hopefully I can help in some small way.
    Steve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothbrew View Post
    Hi

    ECM T IV Profi WT-TC
    ECM's model naming is getting a bit crazy!
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  4. #4
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The rotary pump is a great feature, so quiet and smooth.

    As above have a good play with each machine if you can, it will doubt help you make the right choice.

    Cheers
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  5. #5
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    My last two machines have been the ECM Technika Profi IV (vibe pump) and now the Profitec 700. They're both great machines and the fit and finish are wonderful. If you're going HX though I'd personally prefer the ECM. As artman mentions, the rotary pump is heaps quieter and I prefer the aesthetics of the ECM. Both will produce great coffee.
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    Hi smoothbrew.
    I'm having the same dilemma as you, having narrowed my choice to these two machines.
    I do like the stainless steel rails for the drip tray on the Profitec as opposed to the painted rails on the ECM where the paint had worn off and exposed the metal on the demo machine I looked at.
    I am leaning towards the Profitec however the rotary pump on the ECM for the same price is very tempting. Not sure if the extra little bit of quietness lives up to the hype as grinding the beans is going to be a lot noisier than either machine pump!
    I think Lovey has offerred the best advice. We both need to have a bit of a play with these two machines to break the deadlock. Good luck.
    Mal

  7. #7
    dmo
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    I don't know about these two machines in particular, but in general the advantage of a rotary pump is if you want to plumb the machine to the water mains. That is well worth doing IMHO.

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    If you haven't already seen any videos these two might help

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfW2A-5vrCI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBtZ3Bkk3g4

    If you're a milk drinker then as mentioned above its worth comparing their steaming ability. For example, I own the VBM Jnr and Rocket Giotto V3 and both steam well but the Rocket is more forgiving and easier as I can steam with the jug resting on the drip tray, hands free. Also if you like using mugs check the clearance from the group head to the drip tray.

    Good luck. You basically can't lose. It may boil down to aesthetics. I love looking at my Rocket every day

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    Thanks guys for the input, I would love to do a hands on bench test on both machines side by side but I don't know any shop in sydney that has both on display.


    Brewster its interesting that you say that the rails on the ECM are chromed I had assumed they were stainless, could I ask was that demo machine the top of the line ECM profi(WT-WC) model as it has some internal differences such as a stainless steel boiler as opposed to the copper boilers in all of the other models.

    In regards to the rotary pump I have never owned a machine with one so I am not fully across the pros and cons, obviously it is quieter than a vibe and it allows the machine to be plumbed in. But how about reliability an maintainability, the vibe pump is pretty simple and cheap and easy to replace(around $60-70) its also really reliable, rotary pumps are around $200-300, how do they compare with reliability, are they and are they easy to maintain and replace ?.

    Barri I did look at the Rocket and it is certainly a good looking machine, it is a strong contender the thing that concerned me about that system was the nickel coated boiler I talked to a few shops about this and none of them seemed to know much about it. My main concern was that if the nickel is in contact with the waterline there would be a high likelyhood it will leech into the water (especially with temperatures and pressures involved) , however as none of the shops I went to could provide much info and would not let me open up a machine for me to have a look inside, I just put that option aside.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    G'day Smoothbrew,
    It looks like Di Bartoli and Jetblack have both of these machines in their inventory. It would pay to give them a call and see if they can tee up some demos for you.
    Good luck with your quest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothbrew View Post
    Thanks guys for the input, I would love to do a hands on bench test on both machines side by side but I don't know any shop in sydney that has both on display.

    My main concern was that if the nickel is in contact with the waterline there would be a high likelyhood it will leech into the water (especially with temperatures and pressures involved) , however as none of the shops I went to could provide much info and would not let me open up a machine for me to have a look inside, I just put that option aside.
    A very strange concern smoothybrew. Haven't heard anyone complain about that before. There are many happy Rocket owners out there over many years.

    Anyway I wasn't steering you in that direction, I was trying to point about differences between machines that you may not have considered.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothbrew View Post
    Thanks guys for the input, I would love to do a hands on bench test on both machines side by side but I don't know any shop in sydney that has both on display.


    Brewster its interesting that you say that the rails on the ECM are chromed I had assumed they were stainless, could I ask was that demo machine the top of the line ECM profi(WT-WC) model as it has some internal differences such as a stainless steel boiler as opposed to the copper boilers in all of the other models..
    Smoothbrew.
    In my post I said that the rails on the ECM were painted, not chromed.
    This is the link to the machine at site sponsor Di Bartoli that I was looking at. http://dibartoli.com.au/ecm-manufact...ceted_search=0

    As Lovey says, site sponsors Di Bartoli and Jetblack both have these machines set up and are both located in Sydney.

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    We have both of these machines on our bench. The Pro 500 is on demo duty every day. Dibartoli are also a Profitec dealer but currently don't have a Pro 500 on their bench.

    FWIW, if I wasn't plumbing the machine, I'd go for the vibe pump over the rotary because I prefer the slower ramp up in brew pressure. Noise can be a problem on machines where the vibe pump isn't mounted to insulate vibration properly, but on the Pro 500, it is pretty quiet. But that's one thing that can be demonstrated pretty easily.

    charlie

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    Barri,

    No problem I appreciate your input, I am suprised though that not many people appear to be concerned about the boilers electroplated with nickel. It was something thats been out there for a few years now, these concerns first gained publicity with kettles that had electroplated elements, and in kettles you find that now most kettles either have stainless or covered elements.

    Here's a couple of links that relate to this:

    Electric kettles may damage your health, scientists warn | Society | The Guardian
    http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...ckel2ndadd.pdf

    I guess that everyone has to make up their minds based on the evidence available, and like all research its hard to find 100% conclusive evidence and people tend not to all have the same reactions. However it does appear to be something that is of enough concern to attract a reasonable amount of research.

  15. #15
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Hey smoothbrew,

    Did you end up managing to try both of these machines?

    Al

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    I'd go for the vibe pump over the rotary because I prefer the slower ramp up in brew pressure.
    Hey Charlie, is this something that is noticeable enough to make a difference for the average brewer, or is it something that you notice cause you're in with these machines day in day out? What's the win when it comes to a more steady increase in pressure? More forgiving for a less than perfect puck?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Hey Charlie, is this something that is noticeable enough to make a difference for the average brewer, or is it something that you notice cause you're in with these machines day in day out? What's the win when it comes to a more steady increase in pressure? More forgiving for a less than perfect puck?
    More forgiving for a less than perfect puck is a good way to think about it. How noticeable this might be is hard to quantify though. My main point is that it is not necessarily the case that a rotary pump machine is always a better option than a vibe pump machine.

    charlie

  18. #18
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    More forgiving for a less than perfect puck is a good way to think about it. How noticeable this might be is hard to quantify though. My main point is that it is not necessarily the case that a rotary pump machine is always a better option than a vibe pump machine.

    charlie
    I might have to drop in and speak to you about it pretty keen on one of these machines and trying to wrap my head around the pump options (given one needs to decide one way or the other)

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    Seems this is a common fork in the road I think. For consideration:

    - Pressure gauge location: At the top seems easier than near the drip tray. Watching many youtube videos and the steam and vapor clouds up gauges close to the drip tray
    - Square corners vs. rounded corners: ECM are rounded, Profitec are less rounded.
    - Lever vs. Knob: Profitec use knobs, ECM are lever action. Lever seems easier to use but Profitec have spring compressed valves which mean you don't need to move the knob much. I like the idea of a lever.
    - Welding of the drip tray vs. single piece manufacture: ECM use a single piece of metal (search on google using the phrase "ecm manufacture whole latte" and click the second video in the video list to see the insides), whereas Profitec are welded (search youtube for whole latte love's video on the Profitec and you can see it).
    - Both are pressure adjustable, but ECM seems to be able to do this without removing the cover whereas I think you have to remove the cover with the Profitec.
    - Noise of pump: I don't care about this because the noise of grinding coffee far outweighs the noise of a pump, but FWIW the Profitec has a well thought out and engineered mount for it Vib. pump. Probably doesn't matter if you are going rotary but I know little about both.
    - Cost: Much of a muchness.
    - Overall design: I like the look of the group handle from ECM, it's machined and matches the grouphead lever so it's aesthetically nice. Profitec however have done nice things with their knobs and the group handle to make them match too, so again much of a muchness.

    For me, the ECM is looking like the go but I cannot decide by looking over the web - will need to go and see it for myself to decide. Pity I'm 300km away!!
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  20. #20
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    That's a pretty decent comparison baileys considering you're doing it without seeing them! Some further info below:

    Quote Originally Posted by baileys2611 View Post
    Seems this is a common fork in the road I think. For consideration:

    - Pressure gauge location: At the top seems easier than near the drip tray. Watching many youtube videos and the steam and vapor clouds up gauges close to the drip tray
    - Square corners vs. rounded corners: ECM are rounded, Profitec are less rounded.
    - Lever vs. Knob: Profitec use knobs, ECM are lever action. Lever seems easier to use but Profitec have spring compressed valves which mean you don't need to move the knob much. I like the idea of a lever.
    - Welding of the drip tray vs. single piece manufacture: ECM use a single piece of metal (search on google using the phrase "ecm manufacture whole latte" and click the second video in the video list to see the insides), whereas Profitec are welded (search youtube for whole latte love's video on the Profitec and you can see it).
    The drip trays are constructed in exactly the same way with a small difference in the radius of the curves.

    Quote Originally Posted by baileys2611 View Post
    - Both are pressure adjustable, but ECM seems to be able to do this without removing the cover whereas I think you have to remove the cover with the Profitec.
    Yes, but just a note to clarify that you are talking about the brew pressure which should be set by your retailer and you shouldn't have to touch it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by baileys2611 View Post
    - Noise of pump: I don't care about this because the noise of grinding coffee far outweighs the noise of a pump, but FWIW the Profitec has a well thought out and engineered mount for it Vib. pump. Probably doesn't matter if you are going rotary but I know little about both.
    - Cost: Much of a muchness.
    - Overall design: I like the look of the group handle from ECM, it's machined and matches the grouphead lever so it's aesthetically nice. Profitec however have done nice things with their knobs and the group handle to make them match too, so again much of a muchness.


    For me, the ECM is looking like the go but I cannot decide by looking over the web - will need to go and see it for myself to decide. Pity I'm 300km away!!
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    Thanks for that. **Groan** now I have less points to differentiate between the two. I guess one could purchase both and switch between machines on alternate days

    1st world problems.
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  22. #22
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    You need to get yourself along to Jet Black Espresso or another Sponsor's, to try them out for yourself and then make a decision. Only way to do it really...

    Mal.
    Last edited by Dimal; 1st September 2015 at 09:51 PM.
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    Hi baileys2611.
    When this thread first started i was also considering both machines.
    I have since purchased the Profitec 500 only because it was the machine that first caught my attention. I have absolutely no doubt that I would be as equally happy if I had purchased the ECM.
    Having used my new machine for a couple of months now, i would suggest that if pump type is not an issue, the biggest difference in every day use would be the different steam valves. That will be a personal choice and it would be great if you could try both if you get the opportunity.
    Good luck with your choice, neither machine will disappoint.
    Mal
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  24. #24
    Junior Member mtooler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
    Hi baileys2611.
    When this thread first started i was also considering both machines.
    I have since purchased the Profitec 500 only because it was the machine that first caught my attention. I have absolutely no doubt that I would be as equally happy if I had purchased the ECM.
    Having used my new machine for a couple of months now, i would suggest that if pump type is not an issue, the biggest difference in every day use would be the different steam valves. That will be a personal choice and it would be great if you could try both if you get the opportunity.
    Good luck with your choice, neither machine will disappoint.
    Mal
    Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtooler View Post
    Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.
    Yep, and eighteen months after purchase I still have the exact same opinion of these two great machines
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    After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

    I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

    I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

    My jury is still out on a new grinder.
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  27. #27
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    I love these 'this widget vs that widget' threads. Sometimes it's the only way to narrow things down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    You need to get yourself along to Jet Black Espresso or another Sponsor's, to try them out for yourself and then make a decision. Only way to do it really...

    Mal.
    How right you are, Mal!

    Unfortunately there's a tiny, malnourished sub-species of us lurking on Coffee Snobs (referred to only in hushed, mocking whispers) who, once we start mucking and stuffing around with espresso machines in person, begin ping-ponging and vacillating even more than we did online. Until the realisation hits that we'll be faffing about the store until sundown (unless we run for the nearest exit).

    Some chap named Tommy Cooper once coined this phrase: "I used to be indecisive, but now I am not quite sure".
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    I love these 'this widget vs that widget' threads. Sometimes it's the only way to narrow things down
    ....narrows down to a point where more reading and video reviews just don't help. You just start going in circles. I have been there.
    With these 2 you're not comparing apples and oranges. They're red apples and green apples. They are just so close on specs, quality and intervals. The choice comes down to feel so once you get to the point of splitting hairs online it's time to come and try some out.
    My thoughts on these:
    Comparing the pro500 to a Tech vibe the Pro500 wins because of the quiet pump. Comparing the pro500 to the Tech Rotary it's 50:50.
    I have both - visit any time
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve7 View Post
    After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

    I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

    I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

    My jury is still out on a new grinder.
    Steve7, Silipo are at Southport.

    Silipo Coffee

    Their website shows both ECM T IV and the Pro 500.
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  30. #30
    Junior Member GunBarista's Avatar
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    The Vib pump on the Pro500 is so super quiet, I'd choose the Pro500 over the Tech anyday. See, I'm not so fond of the profi levers personally.

    You COULD convince me if the rotary pump was in question... but I'd prefer to save those extra hundreds of dollars to buy accessories instead.

    Good luck with your decision!

    (ps. If a rotary pump is what you want, look at the Rocket Evo2 - IMO is the best rotary in that range)
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  31. #31
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    I reckon the ECM T IV has it over the Evo2 for the extra .3L in boiler capacity, but you have a slightly taller machine for the privilege. I have a T IV in order to produce more coffees back to back (without tank woes) and so 300ml more boiler capacity in that regard is nothing to sniff at. I also like the levers, so had no problem getting the ECM. If anyone wanted rotary just for the quiet though, then the vibe of the Pro 500 is a no-brainer.

    I've been using one (Pro 500) daily at work for the past few months, and the whole 'slow ramp' discussion further up the thread really is a thing. I've been noticing I need to work a little bit harder at home to get those sweet shots that I like, where at work it's far easier. The reasons given why "rotary is better" has nothing to do with quality of espresso. I've only really come to appreciate that fact after the extended use though.

    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine. It's still a pump and it's still sends vibrations out - so stack those cups wrong (or don't weigh down the tank flap properly if it's a T IV) and you'll have enough rattle to rival any vibe pump. At that point, you're ahead if you buy the Pro 500.

  32. #32
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    Yes and no....Do you need a V8 car to get to the local to buy some milk? Nup....

    Boiler size becomes a case of bragging rights beyond a certain point and I reckon it's circa 1.4L for HX gear. In the real world, what you care about is can you pull two shots and does the machine have the steam capacity to texture the milk for them. So long as the answer is yes, the rest is unused. Steam pressure will be dictated by valves and the size of the holes in the tip as well as other hydraulics.

    If you were to look at a VBM Domobar Junior v and Evo for example, the VBM gets the milk texture done more rapidly. The Evo has extra capacity though.

    Tank size? Again, beyond a point, irrelevant. I'm currently using a Vesuvius via tank. I refill it every day regardless of how much I have used as the water has spent 24 hours sitting hot and stagnant . For mine, it's stale.

    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine.
    I'm not so sure about that...Have you listened to an Izzo Valexia?

    The sound of flowing water is generally noisier than the pump....
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I reckon the ECM T IV has it over the Evo2 for the extra .3L in boiler capacity, but you have a slightly taller machine for the privilege. I have a T IV in order to produce more coffees back to back (without tank woes) and so 300ml more boiler capacity in that regard is nothing to sniff at. I also like the levers, so had no problem getting the ECM. If anyone wanted rotary just for the quiet though, then the vibe of the Pro 500 is a no-brainer.

    I've been using one (Pro 500) daily at work for the past few months, and the whole 'slow ramp' discussion further up the thread really is a thing. I've been noticing I need to work a little bit harder at home to get those sweet shots that I like, where at work it's far easier. The reasons given why "rotary is better" has nothing to do with quality of espresso. I've only really come to appreciate that fact after the extended use though.

    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine. It's still a pump and it's still sends vibrations out - so stack those cups wrong (or don't weigh down the tank flap properly if it's a T IV) and you'll have enough rattle to rival any vibe pump. At that point, you're ahead if you buy the Pro 500.
    And I couldn't agree more, but when you're talking rotary pump then assuming that you're going to plumb it in, I feel that the Evo2 has a better design:
    Taller feet, Waste drain ready to go with a waste catch/reserve, downwards pointing tap for instance.

    I also appreciate the Evo2 more for it's styling and switches.

    Again, just personal pref. otherwise these two (Evo2 and Tech IV Rotary) are just so similar, it really comes down you what you like.

    Otherwise, if you're not plumbing-in and aren't too hung up with the 'ramping' then go the Profitec 500 all the way.

    Good espresso starts with you, not the machine.

  34. #34
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    I'm not so sure about that...Have you listened to an Izzo Valexia?

    The sound of flowing water is generally noisier than the pump....
    I'll concede that, the Valexia frame/body looks way more heavy duty than other machines in this class.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Again, just personal pref. otherwise these two (Evo2 and Tech IV Rotary) are just so similar, it really comes down you what you like.
    Broadly agreed - again, apples and apples. Both great machines although the ECM does have an edge with a bigger boiler and also, German design/engineering quality is nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Otherwise, if you're not plumbing-in and aren't too hung up with the 'ramping' then go the Profitec 500 all the way.
    Agreed. If I had to choose an HX for home it would be the Pro 500.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunBarista View Post
    Good espresso starts with you, not the machine.
    Agreed - absolutely
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  36. #36
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Bigger boiler might suit some. Suits me. May not suit the next guy - but it's not about bragging. You just gotta pick what you want. In the real world, what I care about is pulling 8 shots and steaming enough milk for them. And if it's between a rocket rotary and an ECM rotary I'd pick the ECM.
    I'll take a 4 cylinder over a 3 cylinder any day, so I can get to the shops and then bring that milk and a car full of mates home again The V8 is parked at my local cafe :P

  37. #37
    Member 2muchcoffeeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Suits me. May not suit the next guy...
    And that's it for me. Espresso machines are personal and what one bloke would choose and/or take home is not necessarily right for the next.

    You works out your deal breakers, compares your pros and cons as well as aesthetics and internal build (if relevant) and then you try to solve the best match/service/support quadratic...

    As I moved up the espresso machine ladder, each machine had qualities I liked and disliked. All but my Rancilio Audrey coped easily with any size gathering I threw at them.

    Beyond my 2003 Giotto which I tweaked, it became less about the coffee or how big the boilers were and more about design and what I desired at the time.
    coffeechris, Dimal and BalthazarG like this.

  38. #38
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    Beyond my 2003 Giotto which I tweaked, it became less about the coffee or how big the boilers were and more about design and what I desired at the time.
    Wow.. Snap! It was for the same for me. My jump from a self-PIDed Silva to a 2003ish Giotto was a huge one. Moves since then have been slightly up, but sometimes just sideways.

  39. #39
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    I'll concede that, the Valexia frame/body looks way more heavy duty than other machines in this class.
    I love it! The drip tray's a tad pudgy, but so far it's one of my favourite looking machines on the market. I just hope it looks as good as (or even bette than) Chris's photo on the Talk Coffee website.

    You work out your deal breakers, compares your pros and cons as well as aesthetics and internal build (if relevant) and then you try to solve the best match/service/support quadratic...
    Indeed. The daft reality is that the majority of non-Coffee Snob punters don't (and don't want to) understand the internals, despite the fact that understanding the internals should take priority over aesthetics ("should" being the operative word). I happen to be interested in learning about them, but that's a different story altogether.

    Which is not to downplay the importance of aesthetics in people's minds - in fact, no matter how many circles I travel in when making comparisons, I always return to the look of the machine first and foremost. I can't help it, I guess my brain is wired that way (just like it's wired to not pick up the phone when certain people call).

    Good or bad, it's the bells and whistles that most consumers tick off on a shopping list of specs in order to fast track their decision. Except once they've chosen, most of those bells and whistles go flying out the window and are likely never used to any particular advantage (if at all).

    The question to ask: does that matter in the long run? Probably not.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 1 Week Ago at 01:41 PM.

  40. #40
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    ....narrows down to a point where more reading and video reviews just don't help. You just start going in circles.
    Hahaha, ain't it the truth, Paul? I was being dense on purpose.

    Whenever I think I've narrowed it down to two machines, I'll read something else that throws a spanner in the works. Then the merry-go-round cranks up for another dependable whirl.

    In some strange, twisted way, I suspect I enjoy the process of stalling/holding out and weighing the scales almost as much as being an adult and actually making a halfway intelligent decision. What-are-ya-gonna-do??

  41. #41
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    In some strange, twisted way, I suspect I enjoy the process of stalling/holding out and weighing the scales almost as much as being an adult and actually making a halfway intelligent decision
    I understand that. When choosing machines I would spend many many hours reading online and many many hours discussing/debating with coffee mates. After a stupid amount of brain effort I would finally make a decision

  42. #42
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I understand that. When choosing machines I would spend many many hours reading online and many many hours discussing/debating with coffee mates. After a stupid amount of brain effort I would finally make a decision
    Makes it more fun though, right? And in doing all that comparing and ping-ponging, you learn about different features, and how they work regardless.

  43. #43
    Site Sponsor K_Bean_Coffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    Makes it more fun though, right? And in doing all that comparing and ping-ponging, you learn about different features, and how they work regardless.
    Yep, you learn a lot and that's part of the fun of this hobby.

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